Minimum Age Raised To 25 For Buyers Of Booze

[Artisan]

I have never seen a society desperately trying to hang on to 'culture' that did not generate serious problems. Culture is a word that is bandied about in Thailand like I've never quite come accross anywhere else. It smells of desperation, the old trying to hang on to the past in the face of scary change, leaving the young to find their own way in a new world without wise guidance.

Culture is a survival product for a society in a certain environment. As the environment changes, so should the culture, else serious cracks will appear. In todays world, how can any country be expected to cope sucessfully if their adults of 35 are still treated and think like children.

'Thai culture' as it is so strongly advocated, will never work in modern life. Ever again. It has to change. If that change is not guided in schools and home, the change will be traumatic, but it will happen.

New faces, same stupidity.

That was an extremely lucid and observant post OlRedEyes and I agree with you entirely. During my many years of living here, I have heard the word "Culture" being used so many times to explain away the ills and troubles of this country. The word is used as an excuse for all sorts of behaviour by all social levels of the population. Not only does it smack of desparation but embarrassment and apology also. Thailand and the people must move forward with the times.

[bobbobbit]

If you treat people like children they will behave like children. I have lived in Sweden where access to alcohol is severely restricted and never saw so many alcoholics and in Italy where it is freely available. Rarely saw a drunk Italian! The problems in Thai society are not caused by alcohol, alcohol abuse is merely a symptom of a far deeper rooted malaise. In my opinion!

I understand the intention of the law but believe it will not truly result in a reduction in underage drinking as with many laws in Thailand the issue is not the law itself but the enforcement of the law. People are supposed to have licenses to drive motorbikes but many in the rural ares do not (and would not be old enough to have them), bars are supposed to stop serving alcohol on Buddha days and election days but there are always many well known (and connected) locations where it is possible to drink openly on those days.... etc etc

Unfortunately I believe it will just be another opportunoity for the lower level enforcers to make more money in on the spot fines and for the well connected (i.e. "service charge" paying) locations to continue to sell to whoever they see fit.

Early on in Thakins regime they appeared to understand this issue and try to get the existing laws enforced (for example- with the closing hours), but it caused so much backlash that the process stopped.

It is an extremely complex and broad issue to deal with as it requires a total revamp at all levels of government - employ the right people, pay them well, hold out against the protests, threats etc and then we would end up having the ability to enforce the laws. Also, there needs to be a better education system in the schools in general so that the youth have a better chance of good jobs and they need to be educated about the problems of alcohol and other substance abuse.

Maybe then theywould not have to be so drastic (25 is not really the youth they are talking about) and perhaps there would be a chance to achieve the intention of the law.

I agree that it is something that needs to be tackled, but just do not hold out much hope that it will be done so very quickly as writing a law takes very little money, but educting the youth and having the right administrators and enforcers takes a huge amount of money.

[jamman]

I have never seen a society desperately trying to hang on to 'culture' that did not generate serious problems. Culture is a word that is bandied about in Thailand like I've never quite come accross anywhere else. It smells of desperation, the old trying to hang on to the past in the face of scary change, leaving the young to find their own way in a new world without wise guidance.

Culture is a survival product for a society in a certain environment. As the environment changes, so should the culture, else serious cracks will appear. In todays world, how can any country be expected to cope sucessfully if their adults of 35 are still treated and think like children.

'Thai culture' as it is so strongly advocated, will never work in modern life. Ever again. It has to change. If that change is not guided in schools and home, the change will be traumatic, but it will happen.

New faces, same stupidity.

I've heard it said that the average mode of cognitive development changes along with a societies means of production, so that an agrarian society will hold largely mythic world views, taking their bible stories literally, while an industrial society will be moving on to being able to rationally look at ideas, and a socieity with an information based economy can start to take a wider view and see many systems at once.

So you are saying that since Thailand has rapidly moved from rural to living mostly in cities, cities that have global economic ties, that this will force a social change.

I hadn't thought of it that way - that the social structure will force the social change. Cities and their economies force people to open their minds so that they can engage in the new ways they will need to in order to economically prosper.

Edited October 15, 2006 by jamman

[kurtgruen]

Minimum age raised to 25 for buyers of booze

BANGKOK: -- Health authorities have stepped up measures to curb alcohol consumption among youth by moving up the minimum legal age of buyers from 18 to 25 years. Narong Sahamethapat, deputy chief of the Disease Control Department,.... --Bangkok Post 2006-10-14

I have never agreed with raising the legal drinking age in any country. If you are old enough to go to war and kill people, you should be old enough to drink, but that is only my opinion.

I am getting so tired of this American style war on drinking. Don't people realize that the main reason so many of us want to come over from North America is, because it is nicer here?

I am 48 years old, so the minimum drinking age doesn't affect me personally (not yet anyways, unless they decide to raise it to 50). I just believe in personal freedom and in the right of individuals to make their own decisions in life.

Our children need to be educated, not opressed. If someone hurts others in society as a result of drinking (regardless of how old they are), punish them hard, but don't make drinking illegal for whole groups of people.

What are these legistlators thinking? I thought we are out of the stone age?

And you know what...I don't even drink. I haven't had a drink in almost a year. I don't smoke either, but I believe in the right to do those things, as long as one does not directly hurt society as a whole.

Yes, Thailand has a big problem with alcohol abuse, but prohibition does not work. That has already been proven in the US.

I believe that this new law, if it comes into effect and gets enforced, will only create more illegal drinking establishments, gangs and more crime. What would you do if someone told you you were not allowed to drink if you were 18-25 years old. I would probalby have done it in hiding and banded together with other likeminded youth, which is only asking for more trouble in society.

I was born into a society of freely available alcohol. (Germany). When I was a child, we used to go out for Sunday Brunch and we all would have beer with our meal. At that time, more people drank beer than water, I think. Yet, we had less alcoholics and less alcohol related crimes than the US, who has been trying to control Alcohol consumption.

Many people are leaving the United States, because society is becoming so crazy there. Yet we see countries still trying to immitate them. To me, that is sad.

[OlRedEyes]

I have never seen a society desperately trying to hang on to 'culture' that did not generate serious problems. Culture is a word that is bandied about in Thailand like I've never quite come accross anywhere else. It smells of desperation, the old trying to hang on to the past in the face of scary change, leaving the young to find their own way in a new world without wise guidance.

Culture is a survival product for a society in a certain environment. As the environment changes, so should the culture, else serious cracks will appear. In todays world, how can any country be expected to cope sucessfully if their adults of 35 are still treated and think like children.

'Thai culture' as it is so strongly advocated, will never work in modern life. Ever again. It has to change. If that change is not guided in schools and home, the change will be traumatic, but it will happen.

New faces, same stupidity.

I've heard it said that the average mode of cognitive development changes along with a societies means of production, so that an agrarian society will hold largely mythic world views, taking their bible stories literally, while an industrial society will be moving on to being able to rationally look at ideas, and a socieity with an information based economy can start to take a wider view and see many systems at once.

So you are saying that since Thailand has rapidly moved from rural to living mostly in cities, cities that have global economic ties, that this will force a social change.

I hadn't thought of it that way - that the social structure will force the social change. Cities and their economies force people to open their minds so that they can engage in the new ways they will need to in order to economically prosper.

Basically, it's the elders saying to the young 'Here's an 17th century map of the world, go conquer it' Few will succeed, most will flounder and turn in frustration and anger to drugs, violence and crime.

You can see it happening already. Now the elders try and enforce their outdated ideas with laws which will not work in desperation. A renewal of the culture is taboo. There can only be one result, a messy war between the young and old. The young WILL win, if simply by the fact that they will outlive the old.

[My Friend Same]

I see 14 year old farangs slamming beers and drinks here all the time. I think the rule is that they can buy if they can see over the counter

[PeaceBlondie]

I am getting so tired of this American style war on drinking. Don't people realize that the main reason so many of us want to come over from North America is, because it is nicer here?

..........Yes, Thailand has a big problem with alcohol abuse, but prohibition does not work. That has already been proven in the US.

....I was born into a society of freely available alcohol. (Germany). When I was a child, we used to go out for Sunday Brunch and we all would have beer with our meal. At that time, more people drank beer than water, I think. Yet, we had less alcoholics and less alcohol related crimes than the US, who has been trying to control Alcohol consumption.

Many people are leaving the United States, because society is becoming so crazy there. Yet we see countries still trying to immitate them. To me, that is sad.

Kurt, it's all my fault. My grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather came to the USA long before it was called that, and it's all his fault. Or, it's the fault of George W. Bush, the recovered alcoholic whose twin daughter (like one of mine) got drunk once before she was 21.....blame everything on the USA; it's nobody else's fault. Thailand is perfect the way it is, and needn't take lessons from USA's culture. Actually, that was the point of my first speech to Thai educators!

So, the perfect drinkers in Scandanavia don't have any rules against drinking or drunk driving? I knew they did in 1962....

[dominique355]

I wonder if they also raise the age at which you have to go to the military service. Or ist it still ok to learn how to kill at the age of 18, but you cannot have a beer after?

What is the next thing we will see by these people who know so well what is good for me? (Apparently I don't know for myself) ...

- Driver's licence only at the age of 30 with proof of 1 million bath in the bank

- Buy a (kitchen) knife only at age 50 and proof of having passes and exam

- Internet acces totally banned in the kingdom ?

[webbew]

Hopefully people with some fore thought will have their say before this misguided law is mindlessly put into effect. The negative ramifications could be positively unthinkable.

Thailand has very few major exportable resources outside of rice and sea salt, so tourism is a large source upon which the success of its economy hinges. As has been pointed out, the age range of many of these tourists is 18-25. That's a pretty large cash cow for a country in financial need to be turning its back side to. In addition, if you believe the disappearance of the 18-25 crowd won't effect the number of over 25 tourists then think again. People in mid-life hang out in places with a young vibe while on vacation in order to recapture for a moment the care free spirit of their youth. Take away the 18-25 crowd and you take away the vibe. Take away the vibe and the over 25 crowd disappears too. Granted, you'll still have a fraction of tourists coming to Thailand for the culture and history, but it won't be enough.

The drinking age being 21 in such places as the United States works fine because these countries have other resources from which to draw. A wide spectrum of agricultural and industrial options keeps the economy from slipping to third world status. Unfortunately, since much of Thailand is undeveloped and not likely to be open to development in the near future the country does not have the same flexibility. In a nut shell, raising the drinking age to 25 would be economic suicide for Thailand.

The bottom line is this: If you're not responsible enough to make wise decisions regarding your alcohol consumption by the age of 18, then you will likely never be unless you hit rock bottom and are forced to change or die. Changing the age limit will not make problem drinkers magically disappear. The best that can be done is to greatly minimize the damage done to innocents by these out of control and irresponsible people. The best way to do this is to pass and strictly enforce laws which make very clear that if you are conviced of a crime which entails causing harm to another due to alcohol impairment, you will be spending a VERY long time in a place where the strongest thing you'll find to drink is water.

[realthaideal]

As we do know Thailand, I bet that it will not affect the farang under 25 that are here on holiday. I think this is mainly aimed at the Thai youth which is the largest group that gets killed or maimed when drinking. As most farangs don't owned cars, they probably will not be looking at the younger farangs but that is only a guess. TIT can override any common sense.

Exactly. But then again, why not just enforce more strictly the laws on drunk driving, drunkenness in public, and selling to minors. This new law is even more like treating a meta-symptom rather than the cause. It's not under 25 yr olds drinking that's the problem, it's what they're likely to do to themselves and others.

And getting to the root of the problem besides the enforcement of laws already there, is more education of the youth. It doesn't look or sound as powerful as passing sweeping measures, but teaching the kids "mao mai kap" (Don't Drive Drunk) is good. Sure many kids will defy or not listen, but many campaigns like this have worked in Western countries with regard to pollution, drugs, water conservation etc.

[falux]

Might be an idea to raise the minimum age for riding motor-cycles also. I'm sure this would help Road Safety

Excellent idea - raise the legal age for motercy drivers to 450000 years - hey I have another job for those over 25; go buy drinks for tourists and make 20 baht.

But honestly, do you really think a law like this would bother any Thai from not selling? The 11-2 no alcohol sale (or so) impressed me - I actually went to a shop one day who wouldn't sell me my wine.

[Jonson83]

What effect will this have on farang in thailand? Their surely not stupid enough to force it against such a valueble such of income?

Someone said that most thais think farang look older than they are,true,but the coppers arent stupid.All they have to do is ask for your passport,which they know you will have on you... <deleted> look at the kohsan road,one copper could pull in more than a months wages in just 10 minutes walking down there.What about all the young thais that go down there and get pissed up? Police going to ignore them/ban them..what? Same with all the other areas in bangkok were young farang/young thais mix and drink?

hmm i just cant see how they will enforce this law,let alone get any positve results...

[Briggsy]

A la litter law and its accompanying 2000 Baht fine and early closing law etc., I see this law, if it comes in, very selectively applied. And this when the police are either able to make a lot of cash on the side or where they will get into trouble with their political overlords.

They might be able to reduce alcohol problems by a) enforcement of existing drink-driving legislation heavier duty on alcohol and c) punishing effectively illegal distillers

[britmaveric]

Gambling is illegal in thailand, and we all see how successful this is!!!

[homeless007]

Just discussing all these ridiculous moves of the various Thai agencies and reading some of the trivial answers on this and other forums and in many Farang papers makes most of the Falang community look as stupid as our hosts. I imagine that many of the regular guys in these forums must be Pattaya residents. Just read the Pattaya mail letters and suggestions...You don't know if you want to laugh or cry...It just does not get any lower and more trivial..."Used to like Thailand!"

[cclub75]

Ah ! The proverbial "opinion poll" was missing !

We have it now.

And what a (huge) surprise, the large majority agrees.

(http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=113589)

Thais back free health care, liquor curbs

Most people support the interim government's free medical health project, revised from the Thaksin government's Bt30 universal healthcare scheme, and are in favour of a plan to impose a ban on ads and public promotions of alcoholic beverages, according to an opinion poll.

Noppadol Kannikar, director of the ABAC Poll, said the poll was conducted among 2,538 people over age 18 in Bangkok and four other provinces: Chiang Mai, Khon Kaen, Chon Buri and Songkhla during October 13-14.

According to the poll, 75 per cent of the respondents support the new free healthcare programme as it could assist low income earners while 16.5 per cent are against it as they fear that medical treatment may not reach the standard required while the government may not be able to maintain the programme in long-run.

Touching on a plan by the Public Health Ministry to impose a total ban on ads and public promotions of alcoholic beverages, 65.7 per cent of the total respondents agree with the plan while 19.1 per cent oppose it, citing that business of producers could be hurt.

A strong majority--78.8 per cent--of respondents favour not allowing an opening of shops selling alcohol within 500 metres from educational institutions while only 8.8 per cent disagree with the idea.

A majority of 55.2 per cent of the respondents say they agree on a plan to prohibit ads or billboards for alcoholic drinks as they create a bad image while 15.5 per cent say there should not be a problem as they are made purely for business purposes.

Interestingly, a resounding 87.4 per cent of respondents say that public utilities and infrastructure such as roads, bridges and pedestrian street crossings would improve if there was to be no corruption by officials.(TNA)

[redewenur]

...During my many years of living here, I have heard the word "Culture" being used so many times to explain away the ills and troubles of this country. The word is used as an excuse for all sorts of behaviour by all social levels of the population. Not only does it smack of desparation but embarrassment and apology also...

ditto!

That's spot on, totally in line with my own experience. Queries are so often met with "Oh, it's Thai culture" - fullstop / period. As though that answers everything and justifes all. If you're naive enough to press your point further, you'll get the other classic Thai response "You think too much".

No, I'm not anti-Thai. I'd just like to see Thailand do better for itself.

Edited October 15, 2006 by redewenur

[FRK]

I've searched the Post (and the Nation) on all sorts of keywords from this post and can't find this alleged article, or any other mention of this new law (except months-old articles about proposals to do it). I'm skeptical.

I found it -- it was VERY hard to locate on the Post's website. The full article is below.

Apparently one can still buy alcohol FOR the youngsters under 25 ... the article says they're raising the age to BUY, not DRINK. A dumb implementation of a dumb idea.

Minimum age raised to 25 for buyers of booze

14 Oct 2006

APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL

Health authorities have stepped up measures to curb alcohol consumption among youth by moving up the minimum legal age of buyers from 18 to 25 years. Narong Sahamethapat, deputy chief of the Disease Control Department, said yesterday that the idea was proposed by a network of parents early this year during a public hearing of a draft bill to control alcoholic drinks.

The measure to raise the legal minimum age of buyers is part of a national campaign to save Thai youth from alcohol abuse, he said, adding that it has already been incorporated into Article 28 of the draft.

Under the bill, the following areas will be designated as alcohol-free zones _ temples, state offices, schools, universities and other places of education.

Also, the authorities plan to declare an alcohol-free day when alcohol sales and promotional activities are prohibited.

Public Health Minister Mongkol na Songkhla said earlier that a ban on alcohol advertising in all forms of media will be announced on Monday, while the draft alcohol product control bill will be proposed to the cabinet and the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) for approval as soon as possible.

If approved, it will be the country's first law that gives health officials comprehensive power to tackle all alcohol-related issues, similar to the Tobacco Control Law.

A study conducted this year by the National Economic and Social Development Board found the number of young drinkers, aged 15-24, has increased from 21.6% to 23.5%. It also found that Thais started drinking at a younger age, with almost 50% of new drinkers aged between 15-19 years old.

Bundit Sornpaisarn, director of an academic centre dealing with alcohol problems, said the measure to raise the minimum legal age of buyers to 25 would effectively reduce youngsters' access to alcohol. Previous studies on alcohol controls showed that the earlier teenagers were exposed to alcohol promotions, the sooner they started drinking, he said.

Wallop Tangkananurak, a member of the NLA, urged the government to hike the excise tax on alcoholic products.

Phra Ratchdhamanithet, better known as Phra Payom Kalayano, voiced strong support for the anti-drinking movement.

He said the drinking of alcohol, which is prohibited in the five Buddhist precepts, is much more harmful and sinful than lottery betting.

Thailand ranks No. 5 in the world for consumption of alcohol. On average, a Thai consumes 14 litres of alcoholic drinks per year, according to the Thailand Development Research Institute.

[Donz]

A bit drastic! it will just mean loads of teenies drinking out of brown paper bags..

No booze for the Donzos

Jealous of my age

[Thaddeus]

A bit drastic! it will just mean loads of teenies drinking out of brown paper bags..

No booze for the Donzos

Jealous of my age

Maybe.... how old is your brown paper bag

Edited October 15, 2006 by Thaddeus

[Thaddeus]

Apparently one can still buy alcohol FOR the youngsters under 25 ... the article says they're raising the age to BUY, not DRINK. A dumb implementation of a dumb idea.

Agreed.

It's a very dumb idea.

Someone posted earlier on in this thread about the licensing laws in the UK...... It was way wide of the mark.... the law, the interpretation of the law and what actually happens are three completely separate things.

[gharknes]

Stupid just plain stupid and may i say it....childish

Like i have said many times here.......the authorities just simply have no idea, they think like children, is every bar going to ask for id or proof of age, I don't think so

Thy just go about things totally the wrong way, my guess is this guy has or has had teenage drinking problems in his own family and has stopped his own children from drinking fine by me, now he thinks he can just wave a magic piece of legislation and the whole country will follow, unbelieveable

ahem.........where's that pointy hat

[gharknes]

............legal age of buyers to 25 ..............

does this mean you can drink as long as someone else pays for it

LMAOF such nonesense

[timber]

If you are under 25 in Thailand you can vote, be a policeman, have children, be a member of the armed forces and die for your country but not drink?

[OlRedEyes]

If you are under 25 in Thailand you can vote, be a policeman, have children, be a member of the armed forces and die for your country but not drink?

If you are under 25 in Thailand you are still in diapers

[manjara]

Good news for the Police.

New law, big affected market, significant grey areas....ought to be a nice little earner.

If there is a problem with young people drinking (I'm not convinced things are much different than they ever were), then it is probably in the more affluent 'middle class' Thais, whose children have more money and 'need' to rebel. When a society becomes more affluent, you nearly always get a disaffected youth element, and an equal and opposite outcry at the drop in standards and morals by the older generation.

It is a problem, but there are an awful lot of western nations who have been through it, and they have had limited success in dealing with it.

Given that the Thais seem to be following the US route, I wonder how the US compares in terms of youth drinking statistics, with other countries, say in Europe?

Mind you, in the US, even when you can buy alcohol, it's hard to find a beer that is going to get you drunk without consuming a lakeful!

[pattyboy]

The harder you make it for young people to get things (like booze), the more mystique surrounds it, and the more desireable those "outlawed" articles become to them. This law is likely to have the absolute reverse effect.

How long has Thai TV being using mosiac blurring to cover guns and cigarettes in their shows? -- for ages, and it hasn't done anything to curb the use or possession of these items.

I wish (Thai) people would catch on that hiding things from people is not the key to ensuring responsible use of them -- it's education. Make young ones aware of the vast number of health and social problems caused by cigarettes and booze, and many of them will make their own choice to ignore them or at least not abuse them.

I swear this country is going backwards by leaps and bounds every day.

[Donz]

My friend is going to Thailand in November and she is only 20 years old. Have these new laws already been applied?

[Robbie Dye]

I understand the intention of the law but believe it will not truly result in a reduction in underage drinking as with many laws in Thailand the issue is not the law itself but the enforcement of the law. People are supposed to have licenses to drive motorbikes but many in the rural ares do not (and would not be old enough to have them), bars are supposed to stop serving alcohol on Buddha days and election days but there are always many well known (and connected) locations where it is possible to drink openly on those days.... etc etc

Unfortunately I believe it will just be another opportunoity for the lower level enforcers to make more money in on the spot fines and for the well connected (i.e. "service charge" paying) locations to continue to sell to whoever they see fit.

Early on in Thakins regime they appeared to understand this issue and try to get the existing laws enforced (for example- with the closing hours), but it caused so much backlash that the process stopped.

It is an extremely complex and broad issue to deal with as it requires a total revamp at all levels of government - employ the right people, pay them well, hold out against the protests, threats etc and then we would end up having the ability to enforce the laws. Also, there needs to be a better education system in the schools in general so that the youth have a better chance of good jobs and they need to be educated about the problems of alcohol and other substance abuse.

Maybe then theywould not have to be so drastic (25 is not really the youth they are talking about) and perhaps there would be a chance to achieve the intention of the law.

I agree that it is something that needs to be tackled, but just do not hold out much hope that it will be done so very quickly as writing a law takes very little money, but educting the youth and having the right administrators and enforcers takes a huge amount of money.

Maybe they will move the goal posts again and exclude tourists with visas valid for 60 days upon production of a passport, birth certificate, drivers licence and a copy of the Bangkok Post and not least sporting an England football top!

[excite]

Correct me if I'm wrong but raising the age to 21 and more recent enforcing of ID requirements didnt seem to make one iota of difference to the problem so why would 25 have a considerable effect.