Into the New Year and Beyond

[gerryBScot]

That theory has been debunked, which in itself would not be an issue where it not for the psychological impact it has on people that buy into it.

Pedro you should have seen the psychological impact active alcoholism had on me! If you had, you would agree that AA is a great thing and would be happy that there was no escape for me, because you would not want to be around me if I was drinking.

[big carl]

Only thing that I do not condone in the OP's writing is this 'God aspect'.

Onni I did not utter the 'G' word so you don't know what I think about God and whether or not I condone or otherwise!!!! The 'G' word in AA is a red herring which keeps people out of AA. No one has ever told me in AA that I need to go to church, no one. A lot of people have said I need to find a power of my own understanding with the sole requirement that it is greater than me, a higher power. Many people choose to call that power God or Higher Power but it can equally be a bottle of brown sauce with HP on it or any other embodiment physical otherwise including GOD, Group Of Drunks, so long as you believe it is more powerful than you. The Christian God, the Moslem Allah, the Buddhist Buddha, the Atheist Belief and that of the Agnostic too or alternatively none at can all be transformed by AA spirituality which is quite distinct from the Judaeo-Christian God. AS they say in AA, religion is for those not the way to hell, spirituality is for those on the way back.That's it. As a result of this, many reach the conclusion that AA is a religious organisation, fearful of encountering nuns, priests, rosary beads and weeping effigies and stay away from meetings and sadly a fair few of those pay the ultimate price. Where AA is revivalist is the sheer zest and enthusiasm of the people in it who have got their lives back.

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I actually met a priest in AA he was in my home group. We were talking about spirituality and religion one night. the result was Religion is a form of worship. You can be religious and not be spiritual. Spirituality was a way of life. You can be spiritual and not religious.

[big carl]

I did not suggest that anyone spoils anyone's fun.

We are all adults, and we all know the dangers of alcohol. I just find it boring when someone who had to pack it in goes on and on about it.

It is up to everyone to make their own choice, nobody forces it down your throat.

When I go out, I choose to drink, and I always enjoy my evening.

I personally find your post a very strange one for this forum. Why do you come to this forum with your ability to go out and drink when you want to and enjoy it?

[thaiduncankk]

I did not suggest that anyone spoils anyone's fun.

We are all adults, and we all know the dangers of alcohol. I just find it boring when someone who had to pack it in goes on and on about it.

It is up to everyone to make their own choice, nobody forces it down your throat.

When I go out, I choose to drink, and I always enjoy my evening.

I personally find your post a very strange one for this forum. Why do you come to this forum with your ability to go out and drink when you want to and enjoy it?

To read nonsense posts, like yours.

[gerryBScot]

I actually met a priest in AA he was in my home group. We were talking about spirituality and religion one night. the result was Religion is a form of worship. You can be religious and not be spiritual. Spirituality was a way of life. You can be spiritual and not religious.

Yes Big Carl Happy New Year, I met a couple along the way and one in particular who got sober in his mid-sixties was adamant that AA really helped him to understand the real meaning of God for the first time in his life, a surprise for someone who had been a priest for 40 years!

[pedro01]

That theory has been debunked, which in itself would not be an issue where it not for the psychological impact it has on people that buy into it.

Pedro you should have seen the psychological impact active alcoholism had on me! If you had, you would agree that AA is a great thing and would be happy that there was no escape for me, because you would not want to be around me if I was drinking.

I am not saying people are not successful in AA. The success rate is not high but their program does suit some people and get them off the booze.

The problem is - AA also convinces people beyond doubt that their problem is permanent. That they are always on the precipice.

Even now, you probably think you are powerless, that a higher power solved your issue, that you will forever more be an alcoholic and that you are on a knife edge for life between alcoholism and sobriety. You believe these things because AA taught you those things. There is no peer reviewed evidence that these things are true. AA was effectively 'made up' by 2 people. They made up these facts and they are not backed up by research or common sense. So 2 guys made some stuff up in 1933 and people hang on to their words today.

AA even teach that prescription drugs should not be used to help combat addiction - this definitely flies in the face of a lot of modern research, such as the use of opiod receptor blockers to take the buzz of alcohol away in order to create disinterest.

In many ways, this is similar to a cult or religion. It suits certain types of people. Other people are turned off by it - but many of those people that get turned off leave with that programming that they have a disease, that they are powerless, that it's an all or nothing thing. In turn, this can make their problem worse.

The bottom line with drinking is that there are 2 aspects to the addiction. There's the conscious aspect - the "thinking" you and there's the subconscious aspect (the limbic system of the brain). You have a conscious addiction, a desire to drink but the limbic system is also involved in addiction. So whilst you consciously want to give up, there's always that monkey on your back telling you to drink. One of the problems with AA is that it completely ignores the sub-conscious aspect of addiction and in effect guarantees that your conscious and subconscious mind are in conflict. By programming you that you have a perpetual problem, they create a state of perpetual conflict.

[gerryBScot]

Pedro thanks for posting. You make a lot of points to which I would like to reply.

I feel really good in myself right now and have so for some time. I don't even think about alcohol. I am not facing down some vile enemy. It's over. I lost. Alcohol won. The war is over. I haven't given up anything so much as I have got my life back. I really don't feel as if I am on a knife edge of any sort. I feel calm and comfortable in my own skin. Che sera, sera...

The groups I belong to are quite clear and there is official AA published literature that confirms this: we are not doctors; they prescribe medication, if a doctor prescribed meds then as far as I am concerned you should take them. It would be grossly irresponsible for an AA member to tell another member to stop taking prescribed medication. I mentioned previously that AA is far from perfect: I understand there may be members and groups who advise folk not to take medication, especially those that might be described as psychotropic. They are irresponsible and not following AA guidance.

I am not a member of a cult and am wholly opposed to any attempt to make AA one. I acknowledge that this is a worrisome aspect of AA. I don't do it and neither do most I know. Let me assure you that there is a vigorous debate within AA about this. Check out: aacultwatch.blogspot.com. I have absolutely no connection with this site whatsoever beyond using it and supporting its general tenor.

I am enjoying life as never before and am not engaged in any debate today about whether I should take a drink. For that I am truly grateful.