Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[iReason]

And to clear up one poster's confusion re: Ko Ye. (You know? The guy who, when presented with a Thai transcript of his interview with Channel 3, in court, was unable to read it?)

Speaking Thai (and the following), are completely different:

"One of the translators, Ko Ye, admitted to the Samui Central Court yesterday that he could not read or write Thai and barely understood the Rakhine dialect."

(That would be the dialect of the suspects)

"Under questioning from the defense, he said that he signed a statement confirming what happened in the interrogation even though he didn’t know what it said in Thai"

“The second roti seller has been on the stand today and it’s become very clear that he does not have much of grasp of Thai at all,

so we don’t understand how he could have translated for police,” Andy Hall, a British migrant rights advocate who is helping the defense team, told The Myanmar Times.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16101-thai-police-used-roti-vendors-as-translators.html

[Khun Han]

^ I'd forgotten about that. Roti man's Burmese skills are irrelevent if he couldn't translate from and to Thai. What language were they using? Tinglish?

[greenchair]

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

[bannork]

^ I'd forgotten about that. Roti man's Burmese skills are irrelevent if he couldn't translate from and to Thai. What language were they using? Tinglish?

He may not be able to read and write Thai but he can speak it okay and if what he said is true, then his words in the interview were condemning.

Channel 3 said he had lived in Thailand for 18 years, he looks in his early 30s and if from Yangon as they say, then he can surely speak Myanmar.

But can the suspects speak Myanmar? The Burmese education system demands all teaching is in the Myanmar language, like Thailand insists on central Thai, but did the suspects go to school?

[iReason]

Well Han,

The two clowns presented as "translators" were just part of the Big Circus.

Directed by: "Big Aud" Somyot

[StealthEnergiser]

Mark Trowell QC

January 19 at 1:42pm · Perth, WA ·

DNA IS NOT INFALLIBLE PROOF OF GUILT

On Christmas Eve 2015 two Myanmar migrant workers were convicted of the savage murder of young English backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller whose battered bodies were found on the beach of the idylic island of Koh Tao.

Key evidence against the men was DNA linking them to the crime scene. Substantial questions have been raised as to whether proper international analysis and reporting standards were kept.

Once more too much trust has been placed on DNA evidence as if it is infallible and conclusive proof of guilt simply because a potential 'match' may have been found in samples taken from a crime scene.

The potential for error is often ignored. While DNA may have released wrongfully convicted people from prison, it also has the potential of convicting innocent people if its limitations are not fully understood.

Both accused face the death penalty in Thailand. With other lawyers, I have been asked to asset in preparing grounds of appeal for these men. Will keep you informed.

Mark Trowell QC

10 hrs · Perth, WA ·

WHEN EXPERTS GET IT WRONG

A few days ago I was speaking about the Koh Tao murder case. Just to illustrate the critical importance of recognised international standards in reporting and explaining scientific results in court, you should be aware that in April 2015 the US Justice Department and FBI admitted that over a 20-year period before 2000 every examiner in an elite FBI forensic unit gave flawed testimony in criminal trials.

Of 28 examiners in the FBI Laboratory’s microscopic hair comparison unit, 26 overstated forensic matches in ways that favoured prosecutors in more than 95% of the 268 trials reviewed at that time. The experts systematically testified to the near certainty of ‘matches’ of crime scene hairs, backing their claims by citing incomplete or misleading statistics drawn from their casework.

The flawed evidence may well have led to the wrongful convictions of hundreds of potentially innocent people. Of the cases examined so far, 32 resulted in the death penalty. Fourteen persons had been executed or died in prison. So far three of seven defendants whose trials included flawed FBI testimony have been exonerated through DNA testing since 2009, and two more have been exonerated by the courts.

The FBI acknowledged that until 2012 the hair examiners lacked written standards defining scientifically appropriate and erroneous ways to explain results in court. Of course the FBI errors didn’t mean there was not other evidence of guilt, but where the ‘scientific evidence’ was the clincher it resulted in significant miscarriages of justice.

Source: Washington Post, Spencer S. Hsu, April 18, 2015

[iReason]

Bravo! Mr. Mark Trowell.

The true professionals know this whole debacle stinks.

The screws tighten. The spotlight grows stronger.

Excellent news.

[boomerangutang]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.
The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.
I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

[Khun Han]

^ I'd forgotten about that. Roti man's Burmese skills are irrelevent if he couldn't translate from and to Thai. What language were they using? Tinglish?

He may not be able to read and write Thai but he can speak it okay and if what he said is true, then his words in the interview were condemning.

Channel 3 said he had lived in Thailand for 18 years, he looks in his early 30s and if from Yangon as they say, then he can surely speak Myanmar.

But can the suspects speak Myanmar? The Burmese education system demands all teaching is in the Myanmar language, like Thailand insists on central Thai, but did the suspects go to school?

At this stage, we don't know the answers to your questions about how well any of them speak Burmese. I admit my Thai is poor, so I'll have to wait for my wife to come home before I can find out if roti seller's Thai is any good, though it was almost unintelligible during the trial apparently. Maybe he has a limited vocabulary, but can get by in comfortable situations. My Spanish is like that.

[Khun Han]

Always darkly entertaining to see those photos iReason. Though I prefer the ones with Big Aud and Island Mafia Kingpin glaring at the camera: pictures are sometimes better than a thousand words .

[iReason]

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK,

and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

[Khun Han]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

There was a case in my home city in the UK last year, where a guy was prosecuted for the theft of a purse from a woman who'd just died in a city centre street. What a disgusting thing to do. But he didn't murder her.

[greenchair]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

Oh please, where did you get that she wasn't raped and that the brits found no dna.

The brits have been very tight lipped. They had nothing that would of helped the b2.

I absolutely agree with you. The 1st defendant was at the beach playing guitar. He took a swim. Went back to his room and went to sleep. Apparently his dna mixed with another was in the victims second passage. But there was no supporting evidence and mixed dna is controversial.

I think they should have had separate lawyers and separate trials. If the 2nd defendant and Muang Muang story was the same, I would support them. But their story is quite different. I don't believe their lame explaination.

[somo]

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

You still do not give an answer as to where all the evidence has gone. Without it there is no case to answer.

Please do not sensationalise the matter with the highlighted bit above. There is no evidence she was raped and how would you know in what way she supposedly was? For all we know she had no sex immediately before the event or perhaps she had consensual sex we have no way of knowing now the RTP, in whom you seem to have blind faith, have lost all the evidence. In fact as far as I know the British reported no signs of rape were apparent. Correct me if I am wrong. If not please apologise for misleading readers here.

[somo]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

Oh please, where did you get that she wasn't raped and that the brits found no dna.

The brits have been very tight lipped. They had nothing that would of helped the b2.

I absolutely agree with you. The 1st defendant was at the beach playing guitar. He took a swim. Went back to his room and went to sleep. Apparently his dna mixed with another was in the victims second passage. But there was no supporting evidence and mixed dna is controversial.

I think they should have had separate lawyers and separate trials. If the 2nd defendant and Muang Muang story was the same, I would support them. But their story is quite different. I don't believe their lame explaination.

Please supply evidence of the above claim. "Apparently" is just not good enough.

[2fishin2]

177 + 38 = 215

Thailand, Koh Tao, police, mafia, government officials and everybody in-between bashing. Let it go, its not like its your relatives. Its done and over with. All this name calling will never get them back and will not get the 2 guys out of prison. Let the two people rest in peace please.

[bannork]

Does anyone in the public realm have access to the UK autopsy report on Hannah? I remember reading there was no apparent sign of rape, ie tears but nothing about the DNA. In fact I thought the report was going to be released to the public this month.

What happened?

[AleG]

Does anyone in the public realm have access to the UK autopsy report on Hannah? I remember reading there was no apparent sign of rape, ie tears but nothing about the DNA. In fact I thought the report was going to be released to the public this month.

What happened?

The only person that said the UK report had significant differences to the Thai one was Andy Hall. The report was submitted to the court and this is what the report says about the subject:

"Police Colonel Dr Pawut, M.D, testified that there was a tear to the Second Deceased’s vulva, which is consistent with the report of the second victim’s autopsy in the United Kingdom in Document Lor. 31 (page 21), submitted by the defendants, indicating that there was a tear at the vulva. This fact supports credibility to Police Colonel Dr Pawut, M.D,’s testimony is made in a straightforward manner."

And this is what it says about his contribution to the case:

"Mr Andrew Jonathan Hall or Andy Hall to testify on the autopsy report of the Second Deceased in Document Lor. 31, claiming that the autopsy report at the United Kingdom did not indicate an abrasive tear on the perineum from the vulva to the anus of the Second Deceased. Mr Andrew also hired an expert from the United Kingdom to conduct a gait analysis of a suspect from CCTV images, comparing that suspect to the second defendant’s motion appeared on the video footage on the date of the incident. The result of the gait analysis provided in Document Lor. 47 indicated that the second defendant was not the same man as the suspect. It is found that this witness did not learn the factual issues or was not directly involved with the case, nor is he an expert on autopsy and the analysis of the two reports. Additionally, the witness is merely the coordinator and recipient of the said reports. Almost all of the facts in the testimony are his personal opinions. His testimony constitutes hearsay evidence because he only refutes what has been written in the reports or claims that an expert has informed him of such information. Unless a relevant expert can testify before the court to confirm the information in such reports, the plaintiff cannot cross-examine the witness in order to properly examine the fact. The testimony alone is without any weight and not worthy of being taken into account."

[boomerangutang]

177 + 38 = 215

Thailand, Koh Tao, police, mafia, government officials and everybody in-between bashing. Let it go, its not like its your relatives. Its done and over with. All this name calling will never get them back and will not get the 2 guys out of prison. Let the two people rest in peace please.

All this harping about justice may sway certain important people to look fairly upon the condemned young men. Public opinion does affect some public affairs, and this case has become, if not a 'cause celebre,' at least a big deal in the public eye. Time magazine has done several features on it. Every major newspaper in the world has had at least some mention of it. Thailand has dragged itself in the black fetid mud for 16 months, and it's getting deeper with each step. If nothing else, it's proof to the world that justice in Thailand is not blind. It also proves that in Thailand, some people are considered guilty until proven innocent. Perhaps most glaring is this case proves unequivocally how those connected to rich VIP's are essentially untouchable and those at the lowest rungs are easily trampled on.

"Let the two people rest in peace please." ...what a trite statement, bordering on disrespectful. The main reason these topics are running so hot for so long is most of us are seeking truth and justice.

[AleG]

^ I'd forgotten about that. Roti man's Burmese skills are irrelevent if he couldn't translate from and to Thai. What language were they using? Tinglish?

He may not be able to read and write Thai but he can speak it okay and if what he said is true, then his words in the interview were condemning.

Channel 3 said he had lived in Thailand for 18 years, he looks in his early 30s and if from Yangon as they say, then he can surely speak Myanmar.

But can the suspects speak Myanmar? The Burmese education system demands all teaching is in the Myanmar language, like Thailand insists on central Thai, but did the suspects go to school?

The thing with the translators is a good example of how things can get muddied by cherry picking.

The complain that the translators didn't speak well the Rakhine dialect is a red herring, this is pushed to imply that the Burmese couldn't communicate during their interrogation, that they didn't understand what they were charged with, etc, etc.. The cherry picking ignores the fact that they all speak Burmese, which makes the whole attempt at misdirection irrelevant.

Once more, from the judgement summary:

"Further information gleaned from questioning the plaintiff is that while both defendants were under arrest the investigating officers arranged for a Burmese translator for both the defendants and the defendants agree that this was in fact the case and the defendants spoke with the translator in Burmese, which is the language that the defendants speak and can understand well. Mr Kamol Uzon and Mr Myat Nang, witnesses for the Plaintiff who were Burmese translators for the Defendants at the arrest and interrogation stages testified to confirm the fact that they clearly understood each other. In the course of witness examination by the plaintiff and the defendants, the Court does not find any convincing evidence that the translators had any bias against the defendants on the issue of their nationality as the Defendants had earlier claimed. In addition, the Court considered that the video footage of the conversation between the Second Defendant and Mr Myat Nang on VCD number Wor. Jor. 20 clearly shows that the Second Defendant is able to communicate back and forth and explain various details effectively to Mr Myat Nang for them to be clearly understood."

[greenchair]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

I agree with somo and some others. The case was shoddy.

The police had everything they needed. Witnesses, dna everywhere , video footage of the suspects, belongings of the suspects at the scene, belongings of the victims at the suspects. They had everything and still they let one go.

I am shocked and angry about that. That beautiful lady was held down and raped in the worst possible way. And there are posters here that would like to see them out on a technicality. You are all correct, there was no need for torture . there was no need for a confession. And that has stained the case and gives posters fodder to defend them.

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

Oh please, where did you get that she wasn't raped and that the brits found no dna.

The brits have been very tight lipped. They had nothing that would of helped the b2.

I absolutely agree with you. The 1st defendant was at the beach playing guitar. He took a swim. Went back to his room and went to sleep. Apparently his dna mixed with another was in the victims second passage. But there was no supporting evidence and mixed dna is controversial.

I think they should have had separate lawyers and separate trials. If the 2nd defendant and Muang Muang story was the same, I would support them. But their story is quite different. I don't believe their lame explaination.

Please supply evidence of the above claim. "Apparently" is just not good enough.

Not need to. The prosecution supplied it. The defense were not able to defend it. The gavel went down. All I'm saying is, if they want to win an appeal they need a new strategy. We were tortured, we didn't have an interpreter, our rights have been violated didn't win in the first court, and won't win in the appeals court either. Finding plausible explanations might.

[2fishin2]

^^ Serious question coming....Who? And all this BS name calling and armchair quarterbacking is no good for anyone, its just normal people reading and giving uneducated opinions. Disrespectful is the name calling of people. If you think by continuing all this bickering is going to get truth, Ive got swampland in Florida to sell you. You want to make a difference, write the media sources you are talking about directly. This 3rd party TV thread is getting you no where except to see the same "theories" regurgitated and talked about time after time after time. And to what avail? Nothing.

[Khun Han]

I somewhat agree with GC. Wei admitted in court he found a phone on the beach. Thai officialdom wants to believe that, but there are some other things Wei has claimed which officialdom doesn't want to believe. I think he did find a phone, maybe found it at the crime scene. To me that's not a great big deal. Opportunists are everywhere. He should not be executed for picking up a phone at a crime scene, if that's what he did. And Zaw didn't pick up a phone anywhere, should he be executed because he's friends with the guy who purportedly did pick up a phone?

We can't be sure she was raped or even had sex. Brit forensics claimed her privates didn't show indications of sex. The Brits didn't find any DNA. If we start with a premise of believing RTP and their in-house 'specialists', then that's a slippery slope. They've already been caught in a slew of lies. Since Somyot put himself in charge, everything RTP has put forth has been designed to nail the scapegoats while concurrently shield the island tough guys who parade around with shark-tooth rings and pose on FB with guns, and grin while holding little hoes.

Oh please, where did you get that she wasn't raped and that the brits found no dna.

The brits have been very tight lipped. They had nothing that would of helped the b2.

I absolutely agree with you. The 1st defendant was at the beach playing guitar. He took a swim. Went back to his room and went to sleep. Apparently his dna mixed with another was in the victims second passage. But there was no supporting evidence and mixed dna is controversial.

I think they should have had separate lawyers and separate trials. If the 2nd defendant and Muang Muang story was the same, I would support them. But their story is quite different. I don't believe their lame explaination.

Please supply evidence of the above claim. "Apparently" is just not good enough.

Not need to. The prosecution supplied it. The defense were not able to defend it. The gavel went down. All I'm saying is, if they want to win an appeal they need a new strategy. We were tortured, we didn't have an interpreter, our rights have been violated didn't win in the first court, and won't win in the appeals court either. Finding plausible explanations might.

There you go again, telling porkies. The prosecution didn't 'supply' any such DNA as you describe, because the RTP declined to provide it. They provided some scrappy paper with incomplete, badly edited and dated 'information' on it. And you know this but you keep deliberately trying to mislead the forum.

[iReason]

Innocent until proven guilty?

Not according to Chanin Liangsuwan, (who should have nothing whatsoever to do with the case) decided to convict them in public before there was even a trial.

"I have instructed other inmates to monitor the two Burmese men.”

“I am afraid they may commit suicide, because they show signs of stress," said Chanin Liangsuwan, chief of Koh Samui District Prison.”

"They may be feeling guilty for the crime they have done."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412859323

[Khun Han]

^^ Serious question coming....Who? And all this BS name calling and armchair quarterbacking is no good for anyone, its just normal people reading and giving uneducated opinions. Disrespectful is the name calling of people. If you think by continuing all this bickering is going to get truth, Ive got swampland in Florida to sell you. You want to make a difference, write the media sources you are talking about directly. This 3rd party TV thread is getting you no where except to see the same "theories" regurgitated and talked about time after time after time. And to what avail? Nothing.

Thought about reading some different threads? Thai Visa's great. There are all sorts of interesting and varied discussions going on .

[Artisi]

^^ Serious question coming....Who? And all this BS name calling and armchair quarterbacking is no good for anyone, its just normal people reading and giving uneducated opinions. Disrespectful is the name calling of people. If you think by continuing all this bickering is going to get truth, Ive got swampland in Florida to sell you. You want to make a difference, write the media sources you are talking about directly. This 3rd party TV thread is getting you no where except to see the same "theories" regurgitated and talked about time after time after time. And to what avail? Nothing.

Time to shut down this thread as well, it's just like "The wheels on the bus go round and round" the difference being is at least the bus is going somewhere....

[iReason]

“Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha backed the police force’s investigation. Stating that the British Government had “no doubts regarding British the murder case”. [sic]

"But it wasn’t long before a statement from the UK proved that Prayuth’s claim was somewhat inaccurate, with Junior Foreign Minister Hugo Swire stating:

"There was a real concern in the UK about how the investigation has been handled by the Thai authorities”.

http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/2014/12/thailand-detention-of-koh-tao-murder-suspects-extended-for-6th-time/

[Khun Han]

^ He's at it again: quoting from the discredited court report, with added 'question Andy Hall's honesty and hugely deserved good reputation' flavour .

[2fishin2]

^^ Serious question coming....Who? And all this BS name calling and armchair quarterbacking is no good for anyone, its just normal people reading and giving uneducated opinions. Disrespectful is the name calling of people. If you think by continuing all this bickering is going to get truth, Ive got swampland in Florida to sell you. You want to make a difference, write the media sources you are talking about directly. This 3rd party TV thread is getting you no where except to see the same "theories" regurgitated and talked about time after time after time. And to what avail? Nothing.

Time to shut down this thread as well, it's just like "The wheels on the bus go round and round" the difference being is at least the bus is going somewhere....

Seriously, right?

None of these people were in the courthouse and listened to anything first hand. Everybody talks about being fair and this thread is full of nothing but suppositions and personal opinion. Everything is just regurgitated 3,4,5 hand information from Thai news sources (lets not forget translated by not licensed interpreters)

The last thread was shut down after 177 pages of this and right away someone starts a new one and the same people are doing the same thing all over again. We are well on our way again....

If they would focus and direct their energy towards international media sources and bombard them with all this they "might" get somewhere. All this name calling on TV gets them nothing.

And the name calling and attacks on each other....

[iReason]

It really has become amusing that some, in their last desperation, quote the kangeroo court.

A ruling not worth the paper it's printed on.

While completely ignoring the travesties, illegalities and incompetence that got them there.

Truly remarkable.

Unless of course, one has an agenda...