Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[tuanku]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1936438_565311456951426_2289697802985153487_n.jpg?oh=4fd2746dc32bdf2e950b159c088f6a6b&oe=57188611

Statement of Police Lt-Gen Panya Mamen

[phuketandsee]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

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“The Thai authorities permitted the UK police officers to have observer status only in relation to limited parts of the Royal Thai police’s investigation, and the UK police officers did not provide any advice or assistance with that investigation.

“They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The Royal Thai police provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/police-thai-inquiry-britons-murder

Thanks - rock on.

[Artisi]

"The investigation into the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao was, from the very start, a muddled affair"

Specially muddled by people airing uninformed opinions and the press happily playing along. Such as this:

"Irked government officials claimed the reaction was all a conspiracy to discredit the Royal Thai Police. It would be wonderful if it could be so easily imagined away."

That there are groups of people working to discredit the Koh Tao police investigation is a fact, they even set FB pages and websites for that purpose.

"The Koh Tao investigation was compromised from the beginning, when police failed to properly seal off the crime scene. A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved."

Except that they did name and question said influential figures, Thais and foreigners besides migrant workers. So, false again... what was that about muddled things?

"Respected forensic scientist Pornthip Rojanasunand, who has clashed with law-enforcement officials in the past, was denied access to the investigators' findings."

The defense was allowed to retest the evidence, Pornthip worked on it and reviewed the documentation. On top of that it was the defense that declined to retest the main DNA evidence, after asking for it.

"More doubts were raised over the failure to run comparative DNA tests the female victim's clothing and a hoe that was the purported murder weapon. Pornthip, acting on behalf of the defendants, conducted that test and found that the DNA on the hoe did not match that of the accused."

How about adding the factual nuance to that statement, for the sake of unmuddlying things? The initial police analysis found DNA from Witheridge on the hoe, Pornthip's analysis found also DNA from David Miller, and a third partial profile that matched 25% of the markers from one of the Burmese.

"The court presumably attached more credence to prosecution testimony that the suspects' semen was found on the female victim's body, even though analysis of the DNA samples of three people was, in the view of other witnesses, done too hastily."

Why wouldn't the judge attach more credence to people presenting actual evidence against biased opinions from the defense?

"Most troubling of all for the police case - and for the police force's reputation - is the fact the defendants, having withdrawn their confessions once a lawyer was belatedly provided, claimed they had admitted to the crime after being tortured. The court did not even take this point into consideration."

The court did take that into consideration, as anyone that reads the court ruling can see for themselves; so again muddle muddle muddle. The judge decided that there was no evidence of torture, in any case it's all moot since the ruling did not use the confessions to reach a decision(all of them, including to the Human Rights Commision, Myanmar embassy officials and other people)

"In spite of these many doubts and shortcomings, the national police chief, Pol Gen Jakthip Chaijinda, had the audacity to suggest that an unnamed political group had instigated the ensuing protests to discredit his men."

The very politically involved Ma Ba Tha sect that has been organizing the largest protests.

"The simple answer is that none of the other cases caught the interest of the foreign press, which stemmed from the fact that the victims in this murder were citizens of Britain, where the news media are not only highly opinionated but also alert to the hazards of Thai tourism."

This was not the first time Burmese murdered foreigners in Thailand, the difference is that in this case the defense team made every effort to, in their own words, have the case judged on the court of public opinion. Perhaps the should had focused on the court of law instead.

"Moreover, the story evoked an all-too-common narrative - defenceless migrant workers becoming ready scapegoats in criminal probes and the victims of the whims of the rich and powerful."

Bingo, it's all about the narrative, not what the facts dictate.

What's also applied to your one-eyed narrative, and don't ever let facts get in your way of churning out nonsense.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a site containing content from Andrew Drummond's site has been removed. Please understand Thai Visa is not employed as a tool to obtain information for Andrew Drummond nor do we use material from his web site.

[Jonmarleesco]

"Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end"

"In what can only be viewed as a bid to save face, Defense Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan ordered a hunt for the "masterminds" behind the protest rallies in Myanmar and Thailand. Rather than making matters worse, he should be pushing for a reform of the police force."

...............................................................................................AMEN !

Frankly, I'm far from sure why the defence minister is poking his nose into business that is primarily the concern of the interior ministry.

[Artisi]

Brave journo that wrote that.

I see the RTP fan club are already in here. The whole world knows that this is a stitch up, stop fooling yourselves.

The Village Glee Club more like it, you can hear quite clearly how they can harmonise, carry the same note and are perfect in staying in tune and never miss or stumble over any difficulties that crop up during their performance.

[daveAustin]

So you're telling me that the likely millions of Thais who strive either to better themselves through learning, or who toil for hours in tropical heat for an insultingly low salary that teeters on exploitation deserve government institutions that behave in the manner the RTP / RTA have behaved over the years (with impunity I may add) are you?

Millions of Thais toiling in tropical heat? Pull the other one, that's what the Burmese were brought over for.

[Lex Talionis]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

Edited January 1, 2016 by CharlieH

[JAG]

"Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end"

"In what can only be viewed as a bid to save face, Defense Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan ordered a hunt for the "masterminds" behind the protest rallies in Myanmar and Thailand. Rather than making matters worse, he should be pushing for a reform of the police force."

...............................................................................................AMEN !

Frankly, I'm far from sure why the defence minister is poking his nose into business that is primarily the concern of the interior ministry.

It's a junta government. "Defence", in the absence (thankfully) of any credible external threat to the country, concentrates on "defending" the junta, its actions and the conditions it has created.

Edited January 1, 2016 by JAG

[phuketandsee]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

If you haven't seen the report you cannot possibly know what is in it. I repeat there is no indication that the MPS were satisfied with the entire RTP investigation. I believe the only document in this regard in the public domain is Mr Justice Green's opinion as to why he would not release the report to the defense.

Edited January 1, 2016 by phuketandsee

[phuketandsee]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

I think misled is a more appropriate term.

[WhizBang]

But it got the required results, Burmese did it, not Thais.they never would

regards Worgeordie

If I recall correctly, one of the very first statements by the police was that "no Thai could have done this".

[Tom Cahill]

Whens the UK autopsy report due.....?....I forgot..

Thank you for the comment. Forgive my ignorance. Were the bodies flown home, then held for autopsies prior to burrial? Was there an autopsy or just someone's inference that they would take place?

[springheeled jack]

I am the last person to cast aspersions but I stated from the beginning these 2 boys were

fitted up made scapegoats because the police wanted a quick trial and a verdict that would be acceptable by the victims families .

[Aj Mick]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

Get your facts right…..

Three British police officers were allowed to observe, under the guidance of a RTP officer, who provided only verbal translations. They were not allowed open, unfettered access to the investigation, or to get involved in any way. So their view was far from comprehensive, and they have yet to release a report, or even comment, on their satisfaction with the investigation. They have not commented on the outcome of the trial.

They did tell the victims families that the accused had a strong case to answer, which is not to say that they found the RTP case credible or incredible.

The Miller family did state their satisfaction that justice was served, and their dissatisfaction that the convicted men expressed no remorse. They clearly have put their trust in the RTP and the case bought by the prosecution, and have found closure in the outcome of the trial.

The B2 entered a plea of not guilty to the charges of rape and murder, and still maintain their innocence even in the face of a death sentence, thus have nothing to be remorseful about. They did express their sympathy to the families many months ago.

The Witheridge family have been more circumspect in their reaction to the trial and verdict. They have not said that they feel justice has been served.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Aj Mick

[greenchair]

(Quote from OP article) ...A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved. The police gave no explanation for this shift in focus,...

If my memory serves me right, the PM suggested to look at for foreigner(s) as potential suspects...

If memory serves me right, one of the Burmese workers came forward and informed the police about the telephone that had been destroyed and hidden behind the bungalow. That subsequently changed the focus of the investigation from mon to the 3 burmese workers that were down at the border trying to leave the country. That telephone is widely believed to belong to the murdered victim David. Wei Phyo has now come up with some cokamamy story that he found the phone at 5 o'clock in the morning when out looking for his shoes and guitar. Which by the way were left meters away from the double murder that he had nothing to do with. If that burmese had not come forward mon would probably in the prison right now. It was pure coincidence that the officer changed almost on the same day Wei Phyo friend came forward. This journalist obviously knows very little about this case and has probably been having afternoon with Sean and a few tv posters.

[Artisi]

So you're telling me that the likely millions of Thais who strive either to better themselves through learning, or who toil for hours in tropical heat for an insultingly low salary that teeters on exploitation deserve government institutions that behave in the manner the RTP / RTA have behaved over the years (with impunity I may add) are you?

Millions of Thais toiling in tropical heat? Pull the other one, that's what the Burmese were brought over for.

Have you ever taken the time to get off your bar stool or away from your computer in the air con., to actually have a look at what goes on outside of your tiny tiny narrow minded world. You might be very surprised to see what is actually happening and how a very large majority of the Thai people survive, and I mean survive in its true meaning.

[Tom Cahill]

2016, stating the obvious... But in all seriousness what hope does Thailand have when almost all in a uniform appear to be very openly unscrupulous & insistent on spinning implausible theories on an almost daily basis.

The honest & hard working people here (and there are very many) deserve much much better than this outfit.

Quite often you get what you deserve

So you're telling me that the likely millions of Thais who strive either to better themselves through learning, or who toil for hours in tropical heat for an insultingly low salary that teeters on exploitation deserve government institutions that behave in the manner the RTP / RTA have behaved over the years (with impunity I may add) are you?

I'm sorry to break it to you. But those people do deserve better, and those who don't deserve better are higher up the ladder anyways & generally don't care & accept all the lies, deception and downright cheating as OK because they themselves are OK and not really affected by it. It's 2016 for christ's sake, it's unacceptable. End of

I understand what you are saying, I should of put more meat on the bones. Society seems to accept the corruption and exploitation. We all know that protests are banned now, but I can't remember ever seeing mass protests in the last 15 years re corruption/human rights from the Thai people.

It's this whole mai bpen rai attitude that leads me to believe they are getting the govt/police force they deserve. Where are the people to lead a revolution against these injustices? Where is the Ghandi or the Suu Kyi Type person ?? They don't seem to exist in Thailand

India which has a massive corruption problem often see huge protests re corruption. I'm not sure how much good it does but at least members of society show their disapproval.

jucel,

They're too apathetic which comes from ignorance I know, but also they refuse to try and better themselves, try and get one up on anyone who's in the same boat as them by the lowest concivable means available and are in awe of anyone who they think's in a position to do them some inconvenience.

In this situation, they may have no options. As for protests being banned, well if enough people ignore the ban, then there won't be much that can be done about it, but there's a lot more than protests that can be done. I'm saying that this is a deep routed short coming which is why they're in real trouble, and as the other 'more together' neighbouring countries get more investment and spend their time on productive things and not just lying on the floor doing absolutely nothing whenever they're not absolutely forced to work, they'll see what it's like to be running up a sand dune which is falling into a massive ravine.

Morals and justice are not just for white people and they've been around so long, no one knows who came up with the concept. People who think it's better to lie on the floor all day and that everything's fine are not moral. Without a sense of justice and a feeling that it's being carried out, not only can a person, group or country roll along without many problems, other peoples can't take them seriously or ever really feel that they feel like worrying too much about them.

Thainland's headed for massive problems and they're clearly been piqued for some kind of massive intervention, which is why Soros is involved so much. I don't know the format of what's coming, but they will not only see it coming, they'll wake up one day and they'll be completely subjugated in their own land, and unlike in Vietnam, they won't be kicking the white man out, as they're so used to being bossed about and not using their own minds, like children that they'll just accept anything. It's the macro part of a bullying culture of billy small banana people thinking they're something big swinging d*cks.

This is I'm afraid historical fact and has no exceptions.

[Artisi]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

So long as you are a happy little camper that 2 innocent people may well spend their lives in jail, I guess that makes it all ok, in your limited and narrow view. Luckily many posters don't hold your view, some maybe be right, some wrong, some working to another agenda, some pissed-off with the way the whole affair had been handled, but at least they are asking questions they may well bring some good to what is a very poor show in terms of policing and supposed justice. As for saying shame on you b_stards, maybe that should be applied to you.......

[rockingrobin]

(Quote from OP article) ...A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved. The police gave no explanation for this shift in focus,...

If my memory serves me right, the PM suggested to look at for foreigner(s) as potential suspects...

If memory serves me right, one of the Burmese workers came forward and informed the police about the telephone that had been destroyed and hidden behind the bungalow. That subsequently changed the focus of the investigation from mon to the 3 burmese workers that were down at the border trying to leave the country. That telephone is widely believed to belong to the murdered victim David. Wei Phyo has now come up with some cokamamy story that he found the phone at 5 o'clock in the morning when out looking for his shoes and guitar. Which by the way were left meters away from the double murder that he had nothing to do with. If that burmese had not come forward mon would probably in the prison right now. It was pure coincidence that the officer changed almost on the same day Wei Phyo friend came forward. This journalist obviously knows very little about this case and has probably been having afternoon with Sean and a few tv posters.

Greenchair

Can you[provide a link to say they were caught near the border trying to leave the country , as I am sure this is incorrect

[greenchair]

(Quote from OP article) ...A rumour that the attack was carried out by someone linked to influential figures on the island was summarily dismissed and investigators quickly focused on the migrant community, refusing to even contemplate the possibility that Thais might have been involved. The police gave no explanation for this shift in focus,...

If my memory serves me right, the PM suggested to look at for foreigner(s) as potential suspects...

If memory serves me right, one of the Burmese workers came forward and informed the police about the telephone that had been destroyed and hidden behind the bungalow. That subsequently changed the focus of the investigation from mon to the 3 burmese workers that were down at the border trying to leave the country. That telephone is widely believed to belong to the murdered victim David. Wei Phyo has now come up with some cokamamy story that he found the phone at 5 o'clock in the morning when out looking for his shoes and guitar. Which by the way were left meters away from the double murder that he had nothing to do with. If that burmese had not come forward mon would probably in the prison right now. It was pure coincidence that the officer changed almost on the same day Wei Phyo friend came forward. This journalist obviously knows very little about this case and has probably been having afternoon with Sean and a few tv posters.

Greenchair

Can you[provide a link to say they were caught near the border trying to leave the country , as I am sure this is incorrect

Sorry rockin Robin. I can't provide a link. Please correct me if I am wrong. But I do think it is common knowledge that at least two of them were apprehended at the border. I am wondering if that is why the friend came forward because he thought they had left. Yes, I do think it is right. As you can see I have changed my belief from a year ago, since more of the truth has been revealed.

[greenchair]

I do wish posters would stay on topic and stop turning this into the plight of the immigrants story, like some fb sites. We are discussing if the journalist has any clue about this case.

[greenchair]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

[phuketandsee]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

I wish posters would stick to facts. The B2 never left the island - strange don't you think if they were guilty?

[rockingrobin]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

Mon was cleared on 25th September

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

As for the phone according to the BP (which I cant link to ), the police explained how they found the phone , evidently after their arrest the police asked about the phone and the Burmese told them it was left with a friend

One of the Burmese was arrested on a ferry , supposedly going to a new job

Greenchair I do know you have changed your mind and feel very upset,

I dont know if they are guilty or innocent but one of the stumbling blocks for me is that I fail to understand how MM did not retrieve his guitar.

There as been very little told with regards MM testimony yet it seems so crucial

[GuestHouse]

Great article and thank you to TVF for reproducing it here.

[p_brownstone]

Generally speaking, the following systemic reforms are not on the table:

- reform of the RTP

- reform of the criminal justice system

- reform of the military role in government

They say change does not occur until the pain of change is exceeded by the pain of not changing. The whippings will continue until morale improves.

Not wanting to be a "Grammar policeman" but one could easily substitute "morale" for "moral(s)" and be equally correct.

Patrick

[mrrizzla]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

[ianf]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

Not good enough for me though. The families, understandably want closure. Psychologically they will get themselves to that point as quickly as possible. There's is not to understand the nuances of Thai culture or the sneer behind the Thai smiles. Those of us who have been married to Thais for years (in my case 20 years) and have lived here for a long time have seen enough and understand enough to question the facade. In my case I have been employed in a human rights organisation and in those days my naivete was continually questioned by the events that I saw unfold around the world. I don't at all disparage the Millers for saying that they are satisfied. But I am free to say that I believe they are contributing to a great injustice. Injustice, if you like, heaped upon injustice. The two were unjustly killed - murdered in the most atrocious manner. That was an injustice. The police had their own reasons, perhaps financial, to make that injustice worse. Now if Koh Tao was an isolated example (which it is to the Millers) one would be on weaker ground by protesting the result. However there have been many cases in this country over the years that would shake the foundations of any impartial, free and fair judiciary system in other nations. We could list them here - but do your own research. "If the families are satisfied, that's good enough for me." What a terrible statement.

[Aj Mick]

Brave journo that wrote that.

I see the RTP fan club are already in here. The whole world knows that this is a stitch up, stop fooling yourselves.

They are not fooling themselves…..They probably know the truth, probably know the killers.

It is everybody else they want to fool, but few believe them. Over 92% reckon the B2 are not guilty in the poll on another thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881609-survey-do-you-believe-the-2-burmese-found-guilty-of-the-koh-tao-murders-are-guilty/page-8

Edited January 1, 2016 by Aj Mick