Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[greenchair]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

I wish posters would stick to facts. The B2 never left the island - strange don't you think if they were guilty?

Well then my mistake, they were at the boat about to leave.

[Slip]

Greenchair, was it you who said it an earlier post that you had only recently decided in your own mind of the guilt of the Burmese. If that is the case, can I ask why you have now become so strident?

A neutral observer might be led by your recent posts to think that you are trying to present a spun version of the real events, despite your professed muddleheadeness.

Or is it like being a reformed alcoholic/ born again christian/ ex-smoker in its pernicious effect?

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

I wish posters would stick to facts. The B2 never left the island - strange don't you think if they were guilty?

Well then my mistake, they were at the boat about to leave.

[mrrizzla]

To the people that believe the RTP...

Why was one translator for Sky News threatened

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

And now CSI LA on Facebook has received a threatening message from Mon. If the Burmese 2 are outright guilty then why are Mon and his thugs threatening people? Surely they should be cool as cucumbers if they know they are innocent

[Khun Han]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

I wish posters would stick to facts. The B2 never left the island - strange don't you think if they were guilty?

Well then my mistake, they were at the boat about to leave.

And you are mistaken again: Only one of the B2 was arrested trying to get to the mainland. And you have the audacity to question the OP reporters's knowledge and credibility? Wow!

[TheLobster]

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

Mon was cleared on 25th September

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

Nice link:

'So far more than 200 DNA samples were tested but none matched samples found in the body of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23, and in a cigarette butt left near the scene.

Pol Maj Gen Suwat, who is one of the best investigators at the MPB, defended the mass collection of DNA samples, saying police were not doing it simply at their own will but would be on persons who were suspected otherwise it could infringe on the rights and freedom of the people which is against the law.

The testing of foreign workers was part of the probe to find the killers, he said.

Pol Maj Gen Suwat, however, called progress on the investigation “satisfactory”, noting it will take time to solve the mystery.

Since the killings, police have focused on finding Asian men of 170 centimetres tall and with a 40 shoe size, based on surveillance camera footage and footprints on Sairee beach where the couple died.'

[TomJoad]

It's always interesting when so-called "well-balanced articles" leave out ANY discussion concerning David's cell phone being in the accused possession. Is this an oversight by the author? Or a case of selective amnesia?

I ask it because the cell phone issue has always made me question the B2's innocence. Did one of them return to the scene at 5 a.m. or not?

[sweatalot]

Well written article!

Amen he better watch his back. He is treading on a lot of powerful toes and also going behind the face saving masks they are wearing. His most dangerous statement repeating that some "organization" was behind the demonstrations which was well far reaching at best by the teller and I am sure he did not like it repeated. I feel the Koh Tao case was another "pack em and stack em" deal. It sure did make a fast U turn away from some powerful people. This whole fiasco could take on a life of its own.

This whole fiasco could take on a life of its own.

I hope it will - and haunt all the criminals involved

[glenmohr]

It was no "rumour" as to having two suspects, both of whom are related to the headman in Koh Tao..at least one was even arrested...but...............!! And when one looks at the various CCTV photos of the persons believed to have been involved, that have been made available, the resemblance to the two that were Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen's suspects, is truly uncanny. Couple that with the apparent fact no DNA was ever obtained from either of those two (unbelievable!!), the abrupt about-face by police after those two's father/uncle respectively comes in to talk with the police and the ABSOLUTELY appalling conduct of so-called trained investigators during the entire investigation....and the list goes on......missing/used up evidence of guilt..no problem, word of investigators is accepted, while evidence (DNA on murder weapon is found to be that of two unknown subjects) that is supports a belief that others are the guilty party...that is ignored!!! The resultant conclusion is almost, if not totally inescapable!! I hope that the hue and cry does not let up.........there is no "conspiracy to defame or belittle the RTP" by any clandestine group, for krissake!! The RTP did that all on their own and, imho, did a bang up job looking at all the evidence that has become public knowledge!! Now,their bang up job is being hung out and waved in the public's face by those whom I thought were working on ridding Thailand of corruption!

I know that non-Thais are "expected" to keep their "noses" out of politics, but with what has happened in this case, surely it can be understood that there is now a legitimate fear that if something happened to one of us, a similar shoddy (corrupt?) investigation could take place OR that even there is a possibility that one or more of us might find ourselves accused, charged and convicted in the same manner as the two Burmese men! The information that is contained in "Anonymous" report is largely confirmed by actual photo or video footage or by statements that have been made in court! One last comment....one cannot prove that torture was involved because of the very nature of the circumstances under which it is alleged to have been committed, but with the similarities of claims made by others over the years, plus the disappearance of a human rights lawyer after being provably abducted by members of the RTP while he was in the midst of representing persons making accusations of torture against RTP officers..........at some point, a reasonable person must say "There is definitely something very rotten here!!" And it doesn't require any "clandestine group working to defame the police" to come to that conclusion!!

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Yes we are concerned Tingtau. In the very early stages the Thai authorities, viewed by many as taking orders right from the top, wanted to fit a Caucasian foreigner up because " No Thai could have done this". Their problem back then is that Caucasian people can be made from pretty stern stuff and it just became too difficult so they settled on a softer target, the unfortunate B2 who clearly did not do it but were vulnerable for lots of reasons.

However we must not forget that whenever there is a future incident that " No Thai could have done this" we are all at risk. In that context, along with a number of others,I am making my plans to leave Thailand until there is a change of government here that accepts that it is OK for foreign women to wear bikinis on the beaches.

[glenmohr]

Well written article!

Amen he better watch his back. He is treading on a lot of powerful toes and also going behind the face saving masks they are wearing. His most dangerous statement repeating that some "organization" was behind the demonstrations which was well far reaching at best by the teller and I am sure he did not like it repeated. I feel the Koh Tao case was another "pack em and stack em" deal. It sure did make a fast U turn away from some powerful people. This whole fiasco could take on a life of its own.

The court judgment ruined my Xmas, when I get out from Thailand they will get both barrels for that! I respect Buddhism but they should not interfere with my celebrations because I would never ever interfere with their form of spiritualism. When it was announced several weeks ago that the verdict would be delivered on Xmas Eve, the result was a foregone conclusion. How cynical is that?

[glenmohr]

"No more research is needed on my part as you seem to have (intentionally?) misquoted me. I said the British police reviewed the case on site which is true. Not that they conducted their own investigation.

And what evidence do you have that these police only observed the parts deemed appropriate by the RTP? Can you back that up with a credible citation? Or is that just a libelous assumption? Maybe it's you who needs to do some more research.

I'm not going to re-argue the case which has been done ad infinitum on several other long and tedious threads. I merely pointing out that the author has not addressed these 2 critical points. That the British police were satisfied with the RTP investigation and that the families also seem to feel that justice was served, that the evidence was overwhelming.

Justice is owed to the families. Not to the many skeptical posters on TVF".

Lex Talionis - have you seen the report of the British police? How do you know they were "satisfied with the RTP investigation"? Also, only the Millers have expressed their views on the verdict.

And speaking of justice, the B2 deserve that too.

• Like This

• Quote

Re-read the quotes I posted above. Of course I haven't seen the British police report but the families did - and it led them to the conclusion that the investigation was sound. And that includes the Witheridges.

"After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes"

My original post was a critique of the article, not a defense of the verdict. There is so much mob hysteria surrounding this case, I doubt that any kind of logic or honest questioning could ever penetrate it.

Ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, etc., the list goes on at length. So I put my questions out there as a matter of record.

And again the people that truly matter in this case are the families. If they're satisfied, that's good enough for me. And to those that stoop so low to cast baseless accusations about them such as they were "duped" or are "in denial" - shame on you, <removed>

You are being naughty there Lex.

David Miller's brother read a prepared statement as soon as the verdict was delivered. It is widely believed that that was a pre arranged statement composed by either the RTP or the British Foreign Office or both, The British Foreign office sees the need to put the interests of the whole UK nation ahead of the interests, lives and deaths of individuals.

The Witheridge family, contrary to what you wrote, have issued a statement that they need more time to consider the verdict. The British police have issued no recent statement supporting the investigation since the verdict. What you carelessly quote are statements from very early on ( nearly a year ago) and before a lot of the shambles got into the public arena. You have then tried to indicate those early statements occurred in the recent context.

[glenmohr]

"Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end"

"In what can only be viewed as a bid to save face, Defense Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan ordered a hunt for the "masterminds" behind the protest rallies in Myanmar and Thailand. Rather than making matters worse, he should be pushing for a reform of the police force."

...............................................................................................AMEN !

Frankly, I'm far from sure why the defence minister is poking his nose into business that is primarily the concern of the interior ministry.

It's a junta government. "Defence", in the absence (thankfully) of any credible external threat to the country, concentrates on "defending" the junta, its actions and the conditions it has created.

Good point there JAG. taking it a bit further, The Royal Thai Army is unique in the world. The only large military, and it is large, whose duty is not sworn to protect/ defend the country of Thailand. Their role is political. If you study the Japanese invasion 1941, the Royal Thai Army did not defend Thailand.Their role is to over see the political and judicial systems.

[TheLobster]

who's the author ?

Anonymous!!

Are you surprised?

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha said Friday that he would no longer put up with biased criticisms from some irresponsible newspaper columnists and had instructed security officers to invite them for talks.

And you won't find this version of 'talks' in the dictionary

[Fairynuff]

I found Miller's speech nauseating. Either there was some reason behind it or he is naive beyond comprehension. If the truth does come out (hopefully) then he has serious egg on his face. What will be his response, if and hopefully when, the B2 are released. Saying nothing would be his best option because when he does speak it's about as believable as the case of the prosecution

[glenmohr]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

[khunPer]

Some quotes intentionally deleted, as not allowed that many quoted...

Greenchair

Can you[provide a link to say they were caught near the border trying to leave the country , as I am sure this is incorrect

Sorry rockin Robin. I can't provide a link. Please correct me if I am wrong. But I do think it is common knowledge that at least two of them were apprehended at the border. I am wondering if that is why the friend came forward because he thought they had left. Yes, I do think it is right. As you can see I have changed my belief from a year ago, since more of the truth has been revealed.

There is a very good Timeline with links to (some) news articles at Thai Visa News here:

http://news.thaivisa.com/koh-samui/koh-tao-murder-news-timeline/109861/

It's between September 15th to October 2nd to look, there is an article saying »...Maw and Saw were captured on Koh Tao while Win on the mainland of Surat Thani...« Only two, Zaw and Win, of the three Myanmar workers mentioned were accused.

Sep. 17th PM Prayuth Chan-ocha talks about "only being safe in bikini if not beautiful" - criticizing the Brit victims - and the following days lots of debate and later apologize about this, followed by an article in Time that responded in Paryuth says that the media hindered and interfering investigation. I cannot easily find a link to what my memory wish me to have read, "Prayuth suggesting looking for other than Thais" or something like that, but it shall be after the bikini-statement and before October 1st, turning the investigation away from Koh Tao families.

I can of course not draw any conclusions with my limitred knowledge, but just feel that there are too many loose ends - or rather ends becoming loose, based on the news articles, like "...two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples..." (Time Magazine 23/09/2014) and "...DNA of two Asian men was found at the crime scene and had been sent to Singapore for advanced analysis..." (Coconuts Bangkok 22/09/2014); however will be to long to search and speculate in here, and it's already done much better by those with deep knowledge in the case...

[mrrizzla]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

AleG and the others in the RTP glee club. Why are these people being threatened from Mon and his mob if they are just innocent business men and this whole charade as you guys proclaim?

[Polang]

2016, stating the obvious... But in all seriousness what hope does Thailand have when almost all in a uniform appear to be very openly unscrupulous & insistent on spinning implausible theories on an almost daily basis.

The honest & hard working people here (and there are very many) deserve much much better than this outfit.

Quite often you get what you deserve

[Polang]

It all starts from poor education that keeps mass to kindergarden thinking about true quality of people's life....as long as they can shopping spending everybody can be happy....so Thailand will still spend and borrow up to the day that IMF pay them a second visit and kick them back in history of happiness-not after they steel poor people country

[greenchair]

Greenchair, was it you who said it an earlier post that you had only recently decided in your own mind of the guilt of the Burmese. If that is the case, can I ask why you have now become so strident?

A neutral observer might be led by your recent posts to think that you are trying to present a spun version of the real events, despite your professed muddleheadeness.

Or is it like being a reformed alcoholic/ born again christian/ ex-smoker in its pernicious effect?

Actually, rockin Robin, I vaguely remember there being pictures of them at the border.

I wish posters would stick to facts. The B2 never left the island - strange don't you think if they were guilty?

Well then my mistake, they were at the boat about to leave.

Well slip I'll attempt to answer your questions in a simple way so that you might have the ability to understand.

I changed because I realised the defense had been keeping important information from the public in order to gain support.

They told us the b2 went to buy beer. Played guitar near but not at the crime. then b2 went for a swim and upon exiting the water discovered their clothes missing. Mm went back to be with his girlfriend. The b2 after a few drinks went back to their room, where they were fast asleep when mm found them.

Seemed perfectly innocent to me, and absolutely no connection to the crime.

On the last day of court the full truth came out by Andy himself.

They were on their way home, at about 1am. It was raining a bit so they decided to take off all their clothes and swim. All their belongings were stolen. they went home. At 5 o'clock in the morning mm woke Wei Phyo. They went back to find their shoes and guitar which were left meters away from the crime (the shoes and guitar must not have been taken by thief ).they could not find guitar so separated. As Wp was innocently walking home and looking for his shoes (that were not stolen ) , he found a phone that is exactly the same make and model as Davids (but probably left there by another passer by ) . he then took the phone (never mind the shoes and guitar that were discovered meters away from crime ) and gave it to his friend. Who then smashed it and hid it because they didn't want to be accused of the crime they just heard about in the morning.

I never believe the dna.

I never believe the evidence.

I never believe the confession.

I could not believe the b2 own story. It goes beyond the realm of coincidences. I do believe there are more involved. But the b2 refuse to speak.

That's what's going on in my alcoholic Christian non smoking mind. Lol

[greenchair]

And slip, I have never professed to be muddleheaded. I like many others was led up the garden path and lied to by omission. Many people changed camps on that last court day.

[Artisi]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

Mafia, this low scum wouldn't even rate as mafia shoe soles. They are just thugs, low-lifes, the dregs of society dressed up as someone special. Without their ill gotten money they would now be in the position of the B2, where by rights they should be now....

[greenchair]

There you go Robin. Wei Phyo or win. Was court on the mainland of suri Thani attempting to leave the country . You know Wei Phyo, the one that had David's phone and tried to get rid of it. The one that left his shoes behind meters from the crime and went back to get at 5 o'clock in the morning. If I was Zaw Lin I'd be asking for a separate trial

[Eirene]

Well slip I'll attempt to answer your questions in a simple way so that you might have the ability to understand.

I changed because I realised the defense had been keeping important information from the public in order to gain support.

They told us the b2 went to buy beer. Played guitar near but not at the crime. then b2 went for a swim and upon exiting the water discovered their clothes missing. Mm went back to be with his girlfriend. The b2 after a few drinks went back to their room, where they were fast asleep when mm found them.

Seemed perfectly innocent to me, and absolutely no connection to the crime.

On the last day of court the full truth came out by Andy himself.

They were on their way home, at about 1am. It was raining a bit so they decided to take off all their clothes and swim. All their belongings were stolen. they went home. At 5 o'clock in the morning mm woke Wei Phyo. They went back to find their shoes and guitar which were left meters away from the crime (the shoes and guitar must not have been taken by thief ).they could not find guitar so separated. As Wp was innocently walking home and looking for his shoes (that were not stolen ) , he found a phone that is exactly the same make and model as Davids (but probably left there by another passer by ) . he then took the phone (never mind the shoes and guitar that were discovered meters away from crime ) and gave it to his friend. Who then smashed it and hid it because they didn't want to be accused of the crime they just heard about in the morning.

I never believe the dna.

I never believe the evidence.

I never believe the confession.

I could not believe the b2 own story. It goes beyond the realm of coincidences. I do believe there are more involved. But the b2 refuse to speak.

That's what's going on in my alcoholic Christian non smoking mind. Lol

I understood that their clothes and guitar were brought to the court by Mon's cook/relative of some sort. Here is a translation of the Irrawaddy article. How do you know that they were left meters away from the crime scene? Thanks in advance.

The Burmese are Human Too

Burmese embassy representative went to see two boys for more information.: Media interview and answer by embassy official. The Embassy officer said: “The two boys told him that they were swimming at beach near AC Bar and Maya Bar on that night, after 10 or 15 minutes, when they come back to the beach after swimming, they did not find their guitar and cloth on where they left. Somebody may be stolen their cloth and guitar.but on 14 Oct the police bring as evidence their cloth and guitar to the court. When police check DNA, they don't’ check urine, that’s means unlawful and not professional method, now police said again if someone disagree what they did, can check those suspect boys DNA again , apparently it’s no according to law.

They (Suspects) did not trust Embassy representative at first meeting because one of interpreter was pretending to be from Myanmar embassy and threatening during first police investigation (Refer to one of two interpreter) but they trust Embassy staff when they see with their parents them tell the whole story.

Now they are sleeping in their cell only their thing cloth on concrete floor, it’s too cold and their health is getting worse. Other cell mate got bed. They act as police and interpreter ask them to act at beach, police and interpreter threaten them not to say anything if media ask, if they say they will be killed.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Eirene

[EyesWideOpen]

I am bit confused by the British soft handling of this case, in essence giving

Thailand a pass of this whole sordid affair. Brits die like flies over here,

I expected more outrage and a demand for the truth, rather than the weak

acceptance of the outrageous investigation by the Thai police. The only

hope for the B2 is if Myanmar decides to actually defend its citizens and

demands a real outside investigation. Would be great timing for them to

start to assert themselves within the Asian sphere....

[greenchair]

Well slip I'll attempt to answer your questions in a simple way so that you might have the ability to understand.

I changed because I realised the defense had been keeping important information from the public in order to gain support.

They told us the b2 went to buy beer. Played guitar near but not at the crime. then b2 went for a swim and upon exiting the water discovered their clothes missing. Mm went back to be with his girlfriend. The b2 after a few drinks went back to their room, where they were fast asleep when mm found them.

Seemed perfectly innocent to me, and absolutely no connection to the crime.

On the last day of court the full truth came out by Andy himself.

They were on their way home, at about 1am. It was raining a bit so they decided to take off all their clothes and swim. All their belongings were stolen. they went home. At 5 o'clock in the morning mm woke Wei Phyo. They went back to find their shoes and guitar which were left meters away from the crime (the shoes and guitar must not have been taken by thief ).they could not find guitar so separated. As Wp was innocently walking home and looking for his shoes (that were not stolen ) , he found a phone that is exactly the same make and model as Davids (but probably left there by another passer by ) . he then took the phone (never mind the shoes and guitar that were discovered meters away from crime ) and gave it to his friend. Who then smashed it and hid it because they didn't want to be accused of the crime they just heard about in the morning.

I never believe the dna.

I never believe the evidence.

I never believe the confession.

I could not believe the b2 own story. It goes beyond the realm of coincidences. I do believe there are more involved. But the b2 refuse to speak.

That's what's going on in my alcoholic Christian non smoking mind. Lol

I understood that their clothes and guitar were brought to the court by Mon's cook/relative of some sort. Here is a translation of the Irrawaddy article. How do you know that they were left meters away from the crime scene? Thanks in advance.

The Burmese are Human Too

Burmese embassy representative went to see two boys for more information.: Media interview and answer by embassy official. The Embassy officer said: The two boys told him that they were swimming at beach near AC Bar and Maya Bar on that night, after 10 or 15 minutes, when they come back to the beach after swimming, they did not find their guitar and cloth on where they left. Somebody may be stolen their cloth and guitar.but on 14 Oct the police bring as evidence their cloth and guitar to the court. When police check DNA, they don't check urine, thats means unlawful and not professional method, now police said again if someone disagree what they did, can check those suspect boys DNA again , apparently its no according to law.

They (Suspects) did not trust Embassy representative at first meeting because one of interpreter was pretending to be from Myanmar embassy and threatening during first police investigation (Refer to one of two interpreter) but they trust Embassy staff when they see with their parents them tell the whole story.

Now they are sleeping in their cell only their thing cloth on concrete floor, its too cold and their health is getting worse. Other cell mate got bed. They act as police and interpreter ask them to act at beach, police and interpreter threaten them not to say anything if media ask, if they say they will be killed.

Bless Irene for endeavoring to remain impartial as try to do.

If their clothes and guitar were stolen, then why did they go back to look for them at 5 o'clock in the morning. According to andy hall, the clothes have never been found. Apparently the guitar was left right where they said they went looking for it. Could it be they left the scene in a hurry. Went back to retrieve incriminating belonging, but could not get it because there were now people milling around. Their story is not adding up. But the elephant in the room is wp explaination of how he came to have the phone. I believed the first part of the night. It is the morning, that I'm having trouble with.

When asked to explain we get.

Oh, we are poor abused migrant workers.

We drunk ,we not remember detail

We cold and sad on prison floor.

Quite frankly, can't get a straight answer out of them or andy (bless andy for his work ). Their story is just unbelievable, and that's what the judge said.

[Eirene]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

[stickylies]

Great weather but so little great minds...

[greenchair]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

[glenmohr]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

Mafia, this low scum wouldn't even rate as mafia shoe soles. They are just thugs, low-lifes, the dregs of society dressed up as someone special. Without their ill gotten money they would now be in the position of the B2, where by rights they should be now....

And of course the most public piece of threatening was with Sean MacAnna. Also Kiwi Mike Early writing from USA was threatened and he did not even write that the headman's family did it. He thought and said it was possibly done by itinerant fire dancers employed by The Headman.

[MaxLee]

Deputy police spokesman Pol Maj Gen Piyaphan Pingmuang wondered aloud why, of the 126 murder cases involving Burmese in this country in the past year, no others met with protest.

That's because thanks to social media, it is impossible to save face world wide.....