Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[boomerangutang]

Aside from the dna ,there were 14 pieces of material evidence used.

1. David's phone.

2. The guitar.

3. Cigarette butts.

4. Video footage.

Does anyone know what all of the evidences were.

Just like to point out that the second defendants dna was found in 2 separate parts of the victims body. In the first part it was not mixed dna. It was in the other part of her that 2 dna and possibly 3 was identified. Dna (I believe) was also found on the cigarette butts that belonged to at least one of the defendants, and then there was 25% match to one defendant on the hoe found by pornthip herself.

GC, you seem to assume the police were not and are not lying about DNA. They've lied about so much. They desperately wanted to nail scapegoats. They've achieved that, though it's been an ugly process. Every DNA expert who is not embedded with the powers-that-be has stated the DNA trail in this case stinks. Even the officials and prosecution have essentially admitted the DNA trail is in tatters. They've said they lost things, used things up, didn't examine things they should have (Hannah's clothes and the hair)/

More than one outside DNA expert thinks there may not have been any semen in Hannah at all! The more I hear about the DNA trail, the more I lean to that conclusion. RTP and prosecution couldn't come up with any DNA samples from Hannah or her clothing. NOTHING. All they had was some unprofessionally filled-out index cards with hand-written notes in the columns. RTP's finest didn't have any %'s which indicated likely match - which is unprofessional. RTP's forensics said there was a 100% match, which can only happen with identical twins. They also said the semen must have come from Asians - that can't be determined from DNA.

What did RTP do right? That's the question. If you can articulate what they did right, please let us know. Thanks.

[Slip]

Have we seen the statements from Laura Witheridge the sister of Hannah? They are on Andrew Drummond's website. Suffice to say her and her family are NOT happy with the outcome of the trial and how they were treated.

So spin that one Koh Tao and RTP fan club.

Well, I went there and it was blocked. So I'll just take your word for it lol

Try a little harder, maybe just search her Facebook.

I posted the link on page 7 of this thread. I believe it is still there.

[Artisi]

This thread seems to have been forgotten by most but it is being widely reported that Hannah's sister has posted publicly about the case for the first time.

I know facebook links are not usually allowed, but I think there may be an argument for special circumstances being applied in this case- if not mods please delete, and my apologies.

https://www.facebook.com/laura.witheridge/posts/10153150628116986

Let us hope that the majority of people share this link to all their contacts with a request that they in turn share it also.

[mrrizzla]

What if I told you that I have had many death threats from thai people since they murdered my sister?

That they defaced photographs of me saying that the killers had only done half the job

what if I told you that people commented on these photographs saying things like there is still time, and tick tock tick tock.

This is despicable..

As if the victim's families havn't been enough - why should they be exposed to this abuse..

I am wondering if the threats came from b2 supporters .since all along the Witheridge family have said they were happy with the investigation. I can't see why b2 opposers would threaten them since they were of the same opinion.

What? The Millers said they were happy with it. The Witheridges statement sounded like they were far less convinced. And if these recent statements from Hannah's sister are indeed genuine then it says a hell of a lot.

Edited January 11, 2016 by mrrizzla

[MrTee]

What if I told you that I have had many death threats from thai people since they murdered my sister?

That they defaced photographs of me saying that the killers had only done half the job

what if I told you that people commented on these photographs saying things like there is still time, and tick tock tick tock.

This is despicable..

As if the victim's families havn't been enough - why should they be exposed to this abuse..

I am wondering if the threats came from b2 supporters .since all along the Witheridge family have said they were happy with the investigation. I can't see why b2 opposers would threaten them since they were of the same opinion.

Oh this may be a clue "I have had many death threats from thai people " waddaya think?

[Loeilad]

presumably by now most will have read the Laura Witheridge posting on her facebook and watched the highly disturbing you-tube by anonymous.

I think one of the main problems with this and prior events - (talk about history repeating itself!) - is that a lot of people who have visited places outside of their Western democracies can't bring themselves to seriously consider what lengths authorities are prepared to do in order to maintain a status quo.

[Khun Han]

Have we seen the statements from Laura Witheridge the sister of Hannah? They are on Andrew Drummond's website. Suffice to say her and her family are NOT happy with the outcome of the trial and how they were treated.

So spin that one Koh Tao and RTP fan club.

Well, I went there and it was blocked. So I'll just take your word for it lol

"lol"???

What on earth?!?!

And then you have the audacity to present some completely inappropriate speculation about Laura's Facebook post despite not even making the effort to read it.

If that isn't trolling.....I'm at a loss.....

[boomerangutang]

^ Agreed and I don't see how anyone can still believe the RTP with blind faith.

I do hope to see something similar from Maria Miller soon. Police have kept info relating to Luke's death unusually tight, IMO.

It was Luke's untimely death (age; 20-something) which prompted Hannah's sister to pour her heart out. It was like the levee was breached. I applaud Laurie for speaking her mind - loud and true. Yet it's also distressing that Thai officialdom, instead of trying to offer support and compassion for her family, has instead acted in the ways she described. They even tricked the family: Laurie says the family was told there would be added info about the crime. The family came to the police station, went to a room (didn't get any update). A door was opened and in streamed a bunch of reporters. Apparently, the police headman had taken money from reporters in exchange for providing access to the victim's family.

[Wilsonandson]

presumably by now most will have read the Laura Witheridge posting on her facebook and watched the highly disturbing you-tube by anonymous.

I think one of the main problems with this and prior events - (talk about history repeating itself!) - is that a lot of people who have visited places outside of their Western democracies can't bring themselves to seriously consider what lengths authorities are prepared to do in order to maintain a status quo.

Saw this and thought you might want to see the article in the Irish press. http://m.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/whats-the-fuss-thai-police-told-family-of-backpacker-stabbed-to-death-on-beach-34353228.html

[Slip]

There is a poster here who proclaims himself a 'recent convert' to the cause, because of all the lies that the B2 apparently told. I was suspicious of his claims from when he first started posting. He has shown himself here today, to be nothing more than a shill. Shame on you.

[Khun Han]

There is a poster here who proclaims himself a 'recent convert' to the cause, because of all the lies that the B2 apparently told. I was suspicious of his claims from when he first started posting. He has shown himself here today, to be nothing more than a shill. Shame on you.

It's what's known in the trade as a 'plant' .

[Loeilad]

presumably by now most will have read the Laura Witheridge posting on her facebook and watched the highly disturbing you-tube by anonymous.

I think one of the main problems with this and prior events - (talk about history repeating itself!) - is that a lot of people who have visited places outside of their Western democracies can't bring themselves to seriously consider what lengths authorities are prepared to do in order to maintain a status quo.

Saw this and thought you might want to see the article in the Irish press. http://m.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/whats-the-fuss-thai-police-told-family-of-backpacker-stabbed-to-death-on-beach-34353228.html

That's just an edited version of Laura's post. I take it you have read Laura's post? It's on a open page on FB.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Loeilad

[Loeilad]

I would suggest that if you agree with Laura's sentiments, then one could do one's little bit by sharing her status......it might even go viral

[Slip]

I would suggest that if you agree with Laura's sentiments, then one could do one's little bit by sharing her status......it might even go viral

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883048-koh-tao-debacle-shoddy-work-from-beginning-to-end/page-7#entry10296538

[Darkknight666]

What if I told you that I have had many death threats from thai people since they murdered my sister?

That they defaced photographs of me saying that the killers had only done half the job

what if I told you that people commented on these photographs saying things like there is still time, and tick tock tick tock.

This is despicable..

As if the victim's families havn't been enough - why should they be exposed to this abuse..

I am wondering if the threats came from b2 supporters .since all along the Witheridge family have said they were happy with the investigation. I can't see why b2 opposers would threaten them since they were of the same opinion.

B2 supporters... If this were a funny thread I'd laugh. Maybe you should take a look at what Laura has to say before making your tired comments.

My opinion is I'm not sure of the B2 were in some way involved, I do not think all of the things that have happened after the murders are on behalf of the B2. Somebody important is being covered for here... And the stench keeps getting stronger on KT.

[Linky]

Aside from the dna ,there were 14 pieces of material evidence used.

1. David's phone.

2. The guitar.

3. Cigarette butts.

4. Video footage.

Does anyone know what all of the evidences were.

Just like to point out that the second defendants dna was found in 2 separate parts of the victims body. In the first part it was not mixed dna. It was in the other part of her that 2 dna and possibly 3 was identified. Dna (I believe) was also found on the cigarette butts that belonged to at least one of the defendants, and then there was 25% match to one defendant on the hoe found by pornthip herself.

Why do people here go on about the DNA evidence. None was presented at the trial. It had all been lost and it was just an assertion that it ever existed. There is no DNA evidence linking the defendants to the crime so can you and others please stop saying there was. It is confusing when false claims about conclusive evidence are made. There is none and making such claims only makes impartial readers suspicious of your motives thus reducing the impact of them.

I totally agree with you. If there was no dna evidence then would they have been convicted with the other substantial evidence. I encourage the posters to please look at all evidence presented.

Such as how it came to be that defendants, by their own account had possession of David's phone.

And also by their account, why 2 of them were right next to the murder scene at the time of murders, and why 1 of them went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings that had been left a stones throw from the murder scene. As you have pointed out, it is ludicrous to focus on only dna evidence that according to you is non evidence.

I think the other evidence is much more interesting. Thanks

The judge considered the other evidence a lot less interesting. He decided it on the dna, the dna you agree is not there.

[Linky]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

The Millers agreed, that was likely due to very clever manipulation of facts and even more clever discrediting of so called "activist" groups by their Thai handlers while in Thailand, and also the Millers' naivety towards the way that the RTP and Thai justice system works undoubtedly played a part in the statement they made.

The British government didn't agree that justice was served (do you have a link that confirms they said that?) And the Witheridge family has so far declined to comment, and have said they will tell their story in time.

Britain is doing what any government would do. They are choosing to be neutral in spite of what is in front of them because in the bigger picture a friendly long term relationship with Thailand's government and institutions is more important than a few either being dead or in jail. Sadly it is the nation's interests which trump the individual's interests

I didn't say the British government I said the British police.

"British officers were sent to Thailand to conduct an inquiry into the investigation, and they reported their findings to the victims families. After meeting with the officers, Ms. Witheridges family said they were confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes, and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage.

After the hearing on Thursday, Michael Miller, the victims brother, read a statement outside the court on the island of Koh Samui, saying that while the Thai police had had a difficult start in their investigation, the family believed the evidence against the defendants was absolutely overwhelming.

We believe the correct verdict has been reached, the statement said."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html?referer=&_r=0

Well Lex, I suggest you read Hannah's sister's comments then try again. What say you and the rest of the tag team. Maybe time to bring in the supervisors as well.

[mrrizzla]

AleG, asiamaster and their ilk like to goad and say "you 'truthers' think that the Miller family were bribed too!"

No we don't. We just think that the Millers, perhaps in a desperate need for closure, accepted what they were given by Thai authorities.

The Witheridge's statement released not long after the Miller family released theirs sounded a lot more reserved in judgement. And now we have Hannah's own sister telling us the shocking treatment they received. Lots of news sites are now starting to pick up these statements. By tomorrow we will know if they are genuine or not.

If they are then I suspect some of you in the glee club will not show your faces or are the Witheridge family 'conspiracy theorists'?

I am also feeling an undertone that the Witheridges suffered such disgusting comments because Hannah was female.

Edited January 11, 2016 by mrrizzla

[MrTee]

What if I told you that I have had many death threats from thai people since they murdered my sister?

That they defaced photographs of me saying that the killers had only done half the job

what if I told you that people commented on these photographs saying things like there is still time, and tick tock tick tock.

This is despicable..

As if the victim's families havn't been enough - why should they be exposed to this abuse..

I am wondering if the threats came from b2 supporters .since all along the Witheridge family have said they were happy with the investigation. I can't see why b2 opposers would threaten them since they were of the same opinion.

B2 supporters... If this were a funny thread I'd laugh. Maybe you should take a look at what Laura has to say before making your tired comments.

My opinion is I'm not sure of the B2 were in some way involved, I do not think all of the things that have happened after the murders are on behalf of the B2. Somebody important is being covered for here... And the stench keeps getting stronger on KT.

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

Edited January 11, 2016 by MrTee

[Luang]

I would suggest that if you agree with Laura's sentiments, then one could do one's little bit by sharing her status......it might even go viral

Done. It needs to go to the British Press and Govt. tho. Just circulating around us activists won't achieve much....pressure, pressure and more pressure!

[MorristheRunt]

Now let's hear the responce of the General who thinks girls in bikinis get what they deserve.

[Slip]

This is despicable..
As if the victim's families havn't been enough - why should they be exposed to this abuse..

I am wondering if the threats came from b2 supporters .since all along the Witheridge family have said they were happy with the investigation. I can't see why b2 opposers would threaten them since they were of the same opinion.

B2 supporters... If this were a funny thread I'd laugh. Maybe you should take a look at what Laura has to say before making your tired comments.

My opinion is I'm not sure of the B2 were in some way involved, I do not think all of the things that have happened after the murders are on behalf of the B2. Somebody important is being covered for here... And the stench keeps getting stronger on KT.

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.
Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.
How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.
Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

[Loeilad]

i think it is very easy to understand that there are many ways that the Miller camp might have been "swayed".

firstly I very much doubt if the British police officers were in any way prepared for Thailand....and really wouldn't understand what was going on...

I very much doubt if bribery was directly offered......but there are plenty of other ways to persuade someone in Thailand........ .kreng Jai, the "greater good" and lying to name but a few....

As with so many people who visit Thailand the "face" beguiles; the Brit police and probably the Millers too just don't have a grasp on the way things are done here and can't conceive of the lengths some will go to in order to make this go away.

Let's face it Thailand has been convincing tourists for years that it's the closest thing there is to paradise on earth......

[poohy]

It seems like the Witheridges have broken their dignified silence, obviously they were not so easily hoodwinked as the other family

https://www.facebook.com/laura.witheridge/posts/10153150628116986

[Khun Han]

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

They'll be back tomorrow, once they've worked out a damage limitation strategy, which will be ever-so-subtle digs at Laura, and attempts to spam and derail the discussions with 'facebook hacked'-type nonsense.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Khun Han

[MrTee]

Laura's post has made the Telegraph..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/12093087/Sister-of-murdered-British-tourist-Hannah-Witheridge-attacks-bungling-Thai-police.html

[mrrizzla]

Laura's post has made the Telegraph..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/12093087/Sister-of-murdered-British-tourist-Hannah-Witheridge-attacks-bungling-Thai-police.html

Good. It seems then that the account is genuine.

I messaged her showing my support and assuring that the vast majority of us ex pats want justice for her sister.

[catsanddogs]

Laura's post has made the Telegraph..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/12093087/Sister-of-murdered-British-tourist-Hannah-Witheridge-attacks-bungling-Thai-police.html

Hopefully it will make it into all the papers. Thank God she has spoken out at last. Now we need to hear some news that the murderers have been arrested.

[Slip]

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

They'll be back tomorrow, once they've worked out a damage limitation strategy, which will be ever-so-subtle digs at Laura, and attempts to spam and derail the discussions with 'facebook hacked'-type nonse

I can imagine, but I hope not. Skulking in shame seems more appropriate.

[AleG]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.