Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[Linky]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an official update but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Funny how you are forever endorsing the millers view and telling everyone to respect what they say but now say the witheridges have been lobbied and therefore should not be respectd as they are wrong.

Best you arrange a team meeting soon.

[Linky]

We all knew what to expect from the team. Witheridges have been lobbied hahaha.

Perhaps it was the millers that were lobbied.

[Slip]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an official update but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Funny how you are forever endorsing the millers view and telling everyone to respect what they say but now say the witheridges have been lobbied and therefore should not be respectd as they are wrong.

Best you arrange a team meeting soon.

He used to respect the views of both of the families- he ranted on about that for hours. I wonder what has changed? Some posters had zero credibility before, so where does that leave them now? Disgusting.

[Slip]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Well many of us have kept our own counsel. I don't think that you have seen me post often on these threads. I am posting now because of the disgusting treatment that Laura Witheridge suffered that she has brought to public attention. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Slip

[mrrizzla]

AleG. The Witheridge's statement made not long after the Millers made theirs was in no way supportive of the verdict. It is Mon and his crew that have been dishing out the death threats left right and center

You keep telling us that the Millers were privy to more information because they were in court. It seems that the Witheridge family were subjected to lies, insults and outright disrespect. They have now come out and publicly said they were attempted to be bought into silence with 'compensation'.

And no, that is not me insinuating that the Miller family took anything, I think that they received slightly better treatment because David was male yet Hannah was just another raunchy farang girl in a bikini to the authorities.

Edited January 11, 2016 by mrrizzla

[prestburypark]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-officials-insulted-murdered-britons-family-174319776.html

The sister of murdered British backpacker Hannah Witheridge says Thai authorities made deeply insensitive comments about her killing and revealed she now lives in fear after "many death threats".

Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were brutally killed on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014.

They both suffered severe head wounds and their bodies were left on the beach. Miss Witheridge had also been raped.

Edited January 11, 2016 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[AleG]

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Funny how you are forever endorsing the millers view and telling everyone to respect what they say but now say the witheridges have been lobbied and therefore should not be respectd as they are wrong.

Best you arrange a team meeting soon.

Where did I say I don't respect her?

You all seem to be too busy to get on with the virtue signalling to really care what people say.

For that matter, you have missed something, nowhere in her statement she says that the verdict was wrong.

[hughben]

It made it to the Daily Mail website.

Will have to watch that Anonymous youtube video on this case now.

[catsanddogs]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

All hail the lobbyists then! Hats off the Laura Witheridge. Don't spose you'll be giving her FB page a like then

[Eirene]

An interesting statement from Laura Witheridge's original post. - "What if I told you that the thais offered us

‘compensation’ to try and keep us quiet? Obviously we were absolutely appalled and told them to shove it."

Edit: Meant to add the toned down version on the post that went viral. - "What if I told you that the thais offered us ‘compensation’? Obviously we were absolutely appalled and declined."

i think it is very easy to understand that there are many ways that the Miller camp might have been "swayed".

firstly I very much doubt if the British police officers were in any way prepared for Thailand....and really wouldn't understand what was going on...

I very much doubt if bribery was directly offered......but there are plenty of other ways to persuade someone in Thailand........ .kreng Jai, the "greater good" and lying to name but a few....

As with so many people who visit Thailand the "face" beguiles; the Brit police and probably the Millers too just don't have a grasp on the way things are done here and can't conceive of the lengths some will go to in order to make this go away.

Let's face it Thailand has been convincing tourists for years that it's the closest thing there is to paradise on earth......

Edited January 11, 2016 by Eirene

[Duggsie]

A must read if not already posted:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/thai-officials-insulted-murdered-britons-family-122960

[Norvid 1950]

What is a penalty for tampering with the evidence? What is the penalty for false statements? Does police should be worried?

[catsanddogs]

What is a penalty for tampering with the evidence? What is the penalty for false statements? Does police should be worried?

Does police should be worried -indeed! Very.

[phycokiller]

did anything come of the Burmese guy that said he saw it all?

[catsanddogs]

Thai Officials 'Insulted' Murdered Briton's Family

http://news.sky.com/story/1620805/thai-officials-insulted-murdered-britons-family

[Khun Han]

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Funny how you are forever endorsing the millers view and telling everyone to respect what they say but now say the witheridges have been lobbied and therefore should not be respectd as they are wrong.

Best you arrange a team meeting soon.

Where did I say I don't respect her?

You all seem to be too busy to get on with the virtue signalling to really care what people say.

For that matter, you have missed something, nowhere in her statement she says that the verdict was wrong.

She didn't need to: she linked to the relevant Anonymous video.

[NCFC]

Given the very strong support for the Verdict from David Miller's brother and this counter-statement, which although doesn't deny the verdict but does harshly criticise the Thai officials, does confirm to me what I have suspected for a long time.

That the two families have not been on the same page throughout the investigation and the trial.

I can well imagine, if I were a member of the Witheridge family, that I would be very upset that David Miller took my daughter or sister onto a remote beach for some casual sex. I could well imagine some friction arising between the families. Hence the strong acceptance of the verdict by the Millers which would absolve David of any blame for what happened to Hannah.

Laura's statement on the other hand emphasises the dangers that lurk behind the picture postcard views. A sense that Hannah simply shouldn't have been where she was at the time she was brutally murdered.

[Khun Han]

Times must be bloody hard for some farangs in Thailand that they will take on such grotty, soul-destroying work.

[Eirene]

You betcha...either that or they are just sick ****s that will always blame the victim.

Times must be bloody hard for some farangs in Thailand that they will take on such grotty, soul-destroying work.

[Eirene]

did anything come of the Burmese guy that said he saw it all?

Been wondering that myself...anything?

[metisdead]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies removed.

Please stay on the topic of the thread. That means addressing the issues presented in the post, not in making comments to or about other posters. Doing so is off-topic and your post will be removed and you could face a suspension.

You have every right to express your opinion about the topic. You may disagree, but it must be done in a civil manner.

[z42]

Have we seen the statements from Laura Witheridge the sister of Hannah? They are on Andrew Drummond's website. Suffice to say her and her family are NOT happy with the outcome of the trial and how they were treated.

So spin that one Koh Tao and RTP fan club.

Well, I went there and it was blocked. So I'll just take your word for it lol

Get a VPN mate then for crying out loud. None are as blind as those who are unwilling to see.

[greenchair]

After looking at Laura post, I see that people are putting words into her mouth and trying to manipulate parts of her post to look like she is saying something that she is not. She has criticised the nonchalant way her family was treated and made reference to the many unusual deaths at Koh Tao. I agree with her implicitly. At no time did she ever mention the b2 were innocent or that the wrong people were arrested. I fully accept that there were mistakes made by the police. Therefore we are compelled to look at the b2 own story and question that.

Why were they swimming in the rain at 1 o'clock in the morning.

Why were their belongings found at the scene.

Why did they go back to the scene at 5 o'clock in the morning to clean up.

How did they come to have David's phone.

Why did they conceal that phone.

And I see now that the altercation also involved Muang Muang and david. There are several direct connections between the victims and the b3 by the b3 own story.

I do believe the police messed up horribly, in they they should have arrested Muang as well. He was there at 1am, he was back at 5am he met David earlier in the night and his belongings were at the crime scene. There 3 sets of dna on Hannah. maybe Muang Muang needs a retest? ??

Edited January 11, 2016 by greenchair

[IslandLover]

Darkknight666, on 11 Jan 2016 - 14:25, said:

greenchair, on 11 Jan 2016 - 14:20, said:

mrrizzla, on 11 Jan 2016 - 13:59, said:

Have we seen the statements from Laura Witheridge the sister of Hannah? They are on Andrew Drummond's website. Suffice to say her and her family are NOT happy with the outcome of the trial and how they were treated.

So spin that one Koh Tao and RTP fan club.

Well, I went there and it was blocked. So I'll just take your word for it lol

Try a little harder, maybe just search her Facebook.

Well, it has been published in all the important British newspapers now, as well as the BBC and ITV news. Those of us that have read it, well it speaks for itself.

[IslandLover]

After looking at Laura post, I see that people are putting words into her mouth and trying to manipulate parts of her post to look like she is saying something that she is not. She has criticised the nonchalant way her family was treated and made reference to the many unusual deaths at Koh Tao. I agree with her implicitly. At no time did she ever mention the b2 were innocent or that the wrong people were arrested. I fully accept that there were mistakes made by the police. Therefore we are compelled to look at the b2 own story and question that.

Why were they swimming in the rain at 1 o'clock in the morning.

Why were their belongings found at the scene.

Why did they go back to the scene at 5 o'clock in the morning to clean up.

How did they come to have David's phone.

Why did they conceal that phone.

And I see now that the altercation also involved Muang Muang and david. There are several direct connections between the victims and the b3 by the b3 own story.

I do believe the police messed up horribly, in they they should have arrested Muang as well. He was there at 1am, he was back at 5am he met David earlier in the night and his belongings were at the crime scene. There 3 sets of dna on Hannah. maybe Muang Muang needs a retest? ??

Can't you even get his name right, greenchair? It is Maung Maung, not Muang Muang. FYI the B2 were not swimming in the rain. There is no evidence of puddles in any of the CCTV footage. As you live in Thailand, you will know that when it truly rains, it pours.

[Eirene]

After looking at Laura post, I see that people are putting words into her mouth and trying to manipulate parts of her post to look like she is saying something that she is not. She has criticised the nonchalant way her family was treated and made reference to the many unusual deaths at Koh Tao. I agree with her implicitly. At no time did she ever mention the b2 were innocent or that the wrong people were arrested. I fully accept that there were mistakes made by the police. Therefore we are compelled to look at the b2 own story and question that.

Why were they swimming in the rain at 1 o'clock in the morning.

Why were their belongings found at the scene.

Why did they go back to the scene at 5 o'clock in the morning to clean up.

How did they come to have David's phone.

Why did they conceal that phone.

And I see now that the altercation also involved Muang Muang and david. There are several direct connections between the victims and the b3 by the b3 own story.

I do believe the police messed up horribly, in they they should have arrested Muang as well. He was there at 1am, he was back at 5am he met David earlier in the night and his belongings were at the crime scene. There 3 sets of dna on Hannah. maybe Muang Muang needs a retest? ??

1.Well for one - she posted a link to the anonymous video at the end of her post...you know the one about goats.

2.Maybe..just maybe the Burmese lads needed a bath. Must be hard to get one in cramped living quarters...are there even baths supplied?

3.Who said their belongings were found at the scene? We all seen the photo's.

4.Why are you saying they went to the scene at 5:00? There is no proof they went to clean up...beside they already had a bath remember?

5.Wai picked the phone up on the beach...whether it is truly David\s phone we will never know.

6.What altercation between David and MM? proof

7.Maung's belongings at the crime scene? refer to #3

Edited January 12, 2016 by Eirene

[IslandLover]

Eirene, on 12 Jan 2016 - 01:15, said:

greenchair, on 12 Jan 2016 - 00:58, said:

After looking at Laura post, I see that people are putting words into her mouth and trying to manipulate parts of her post to look like she is saying something that she is not. She has criticised the nonchalant way her family was treated and made reference to the many unusual deaths at Koh Tao. I agree with her implicitly. At no time did she ever mention the b2 were innocent or that the wrong people were arrested. I fully accept that there were mistakes made by the police. Therefore we are compelled to look at the b2 own story and question that.

Why were they swimming in the rain at 1 o'clock in the morning.

Why were their belongings found at the scene.

Why did they go back to the scene at 5 o'clock in the morning to clean up.

How did they come to have David's phone.

Why did they conceal that phone.

And I see now that the altercation also involved Muang Muang and david. There are several direct connections between the victims and the b3 by the b3 own story.

I do believe the police messed up horribly, in they they should have arrested Muang as well. He was there at 1am, he was back at 5am he met David earlier in the night and his belongings were at the crime scene. There 3 sets of dna on Hannah. maybe Muang Muang needs a retest? ??

1.Well for one - she posted a link to the anonymous video at the end of her post...you know the one about goats.

2.Maybe..just maybe the Burmese lads needed a bath. Must be hard to get one in cramped living quarters...are there even baths supplied?

3.Who said their belongings were found at the scene? We all seen the photo's.

4.Why are you saying they went to the scene at 5:00? There is no proof they went to clean up...beside they already had a bath remember?

5.Wai picked the phone up on the beach...whether it is truly David\s phone we will never know.

6.What altercation between David and MM? proof

7.Maung's belongings at the crime scene? refer to #3

In an earlier post the guitar was mentioned. What does the guitar actually have to do with the crime? The B2 and Maung Maung admitted to being on the beach and playing it that night. Perhaps it was the real murder weapon?

[IslandLover]

The article fails to address the fact that both the British police - who reviewed the case on site - and the families of the victims both seem to agree that justice has been served. Why would that be?

Only one of those families does now, it would seem.

[hughben]

Just watching the Anonymous video. I didn't know about the French man who 'committed suicide' by hanging with his hands tied up behind him or the woman found dead in her room who died of 'natural causes' in the hotel owned by the first suspect of the two killed at the beach!

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 02 Jan 2016 - 06:07, said:greenchair, on 02 Jan 2016 - 06:07, said:

Eirene, on 02 Jan 2016 - 05:11, said:Eirene, on 02 Jan 2016 - 05:11, said:

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport.

Wrong again, greenchair. Zaw Lin had the passport, not Wei Phyo. Yet Zaw Lin did not run, as you put it. Why not?

Edited January 12, 2016 by IslandLover