Por bor tor 5

[passedout]

Just come across some interesting land for sale holding a por bor tor 5 title. According to thailawonline.com land that has that title still belongs to the government and it has a much lower value than chanote. I was wondering if only the original holder can obtain such a title from the gov or any subsequent owner can. There’s not mention in that site in English at least.

If the latter I guess it would take a certain amount of years to obtain the chanote. Has anyone ever done it? Also I believe there’s an annual local tax to be paid until the new title is obtained anyone aware roughly of how much local tax has to be paid every year per rai? I know I can just go to the land office and ask but it would be nice to have an idea before hand so I know what to expect.

Any other possible pitfalls when buying land with por bor tor 5?

Cheers

[PattayaPhom]

Its for agriculture use only. What is your intention? As recently as 16 months ago I know of some in the Sattahip area that had buildings demolished as PBT5. Why is the land "interesting"...surely there is other interesting land that holds a Chanote or at least Nor Sor 3, unless its interesting because it is cheap...???...pursue at your own peril and don't listen that this person or that person has done this or that. You mention owner....there is no current owner, the person trying to sell it to you has been granted permission to use the land for agriculture use only providing they pay tax, nothing more and nothing less....basically, they have nothing to sell you, simples.

[Paul944]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/235614-purchase-of-por-bor-tor-5-land/

[passedout]

Its for agriculture use only. What is your intention? As recently as 16 months ago I know of some in the Sattahip area that had buildings demolished as PBT5. Why is the land "interesting"...surely there is other interesting land that holds a Chanote or at least Nor Sor 3, unless its interesting because it is cheap...???...pursue at your own peril and don't listen that this person or that person has done this or that. You mention owner....there is no current owner, the person trying to sell it to you has been granted permission to use the land for agriculture use only providing they pay tax, nothing more and nothing less....basically, they have nothing to sell you, simples.

Thanks for your advice PattayaPhom. The location is interesting to plant crops not to build anything on it. Not much land for sale around that very location these days. I believe the land still belongs to the gov and as you said the possessor is only allowed to use the land to do agriculture as long as he pays the rent.

My research led me to believe that the chanote can be obtained at some point through a lengthy wait and at a cost. I was wondering how that works and if only the person who was originally given the use of the land has the right to obtain it… eventually.

Cheers

[blackcab]

There is a high probability that you will be dead before that land is upgraded to Chanote.

Regardless of your current age.

[KittenKong]

Arent these the dodgy land titles that some people (try to) sell on Phuket? Wasnt there a resort or something built on some of them there?

[timberpond]

It should be fine with the followings,

1) You are not looking at it as an investment opportunity

2) The lands are not near to any major governmental facilities

If you are thinking to buy these land and make it become chanote to resell for a higher price, it won't work. If the lands are very near to some government building (offices, research center, etc) do not buy it. They will offer you a very miserable sum and take by force if they need to extent their space.

If your intention is purely looking for a place to build a small house to stay, I personally finds it the best deal.

The surveyor didn't come for years, it is still your(wife) house... the surveyor comes next year, it is still your(wife) house.

[passedout]

It should be fine with the followings,

1) You are not looking at it as an investment opportunity

2) The lands are not near to any major governmental facilities

If you are thinking to buy these land and make it become chanote to resell for a higher price, it won't work. If the lands are very near to some government building (offices, research center, etc) do not buy it. They will offer you a very miserable sum and take by force if they need to extent their space.

If your intention is purely looking for a place to build a small house to stay, I personally finds it the best deal.

The surveyor didn't come for years, it is still your(wife) house... the surveyor comes next year, it is still your(wife) house.

Just buying and grow crops to get some “long term” pocket money for the gf.

No plans on building houses or reselling. Obtaining a chanote would give the absolute certainty of ownership.

I guess I can call that an investment opportunity.

[timberpond]

Just buying and grow crops to get some “long term” pocket money for the gf.

No plans on building houses or reselling. Obtaining a chanote would give the absolute certainty of ownership.

I guess I can call that an investment opportunity.

Bor Tor 5 has a ROI of 3 years if you farm it yourself or ROI in 15 years if you rent it out.

Chanote for farming on the other hand... will take more than a 100 years.

People owns these kind of land for farming and if luck arrives, they are converted to chanote for free.

Haven't heard of anyone buying a chanote land for farming yet. You might be the first.

[passedout]

Just buying and grow crops to get some “long term” pocket money for the gf.

No plans on building houses or reselling. Obtaining a chanote would give the absolute certainty of ownership.

I guess I can call that an investment opportunity.

Bor Tor 5 has a ROI of 3 years if you farm it yourself or ROI in 15 years if you rent it out.

Chanote for farming on the other hand... will take more than a 100 years.

People owns these kind of land for farming and if luck arrives, they are converted to chanote for free.

Haven't heard of anyone buying a chanote land for farming yet. You might be the first.

Never bought chanote land for farming and this one I'm looking at it ain't either.

The gf's family would work the land so it would be all in house.

Can you elaborate a bit "Bor Tor 5 has a ROI of 3 years if you farm it yourself" not sure what you mean by that.

Cheers

[timberpond]

These kind of land typically cost in the range of 60k -100k per rai (depend how near to the road). Let's say they do some vegetable farming at 3 harvest per year, there should be a return of estimated 65k after 3 years.

e.g - On a good season, you could easily harvest 300 kg of tomato per rai and each kg can fetch 25-30 baht (depend where you are).

If you rent it out... it will be about 3k - 4k baht a year.

[passedout]

These kind of land typically cost in the range of 60k -100k per rai (depend how near to the road). Let's say they do some vegetable farming at 3 harvest per year, there should be a return of estimated 65k after 3 years.

e.g - On a good season, you could easily harvest 300 kg of tomato per rai and each kg can fetch 25-30 baht (depend where you are).

If you rent it out... it will be about 3k - 4k baht a year.

Don’t know if the land I'm looking at (northern esaan) is any good for veggies. Rice, sugarcane and maybe rubber are all they’re doing around that area.

What you’re saying it sounds like an amazing return compared to rice or sugarcane, which from what I can gather doing one crop per year a family will be lucky to get an average return of 5K b per rai per year. Hence the ROI of 3 years if you farm it yourself would be far fetched.

Are you personally involved in producing tomatoes and other veggies and is your statement above fruit of direct experience?

[timberpond]

Nope... but her family does. We have a few Lychee fruit trees in the north and it is quite safe to say they fetch 10k per rai a year after expenses (Chemicals).

Vegetable farming required daily care and thus should fetch more money.

e.g - cassava is smaller here compared to the northeast but they are almost a plant and forget crop (at least for what I see here). Lately neighbor harvested their cassava and I heard they got 9k baht a rai. They did mentioned use 2 bags of fertilizer for 3 rai of land.

http://tantai24.blogspot.sg/2014/12/15.html It's in Thai but google translate will help...

Note: google will translate rai into ha... It is a big different.

[passedout]

Nope... but her family does. We have a few Lychee fruit trees in the north and it is quite safe to say they fetch 10k per rai a year after expenses (Chemicals).

Vegetable farming required daily care and thus should fetch more money.

e.g - cassava is smaller here compared to the northeast but they are almost a plant and forget crop (at least for what I see here). Lately neighbor harvested their cassava and I heard they got 9k baht a rai. They did mentioned use 2 bags of fertilizer for 3 rai of land.

http://tantai24.blogspot.sg/2014/12/15.html It's in Thai but google translate will help...

Note: google will translate rai into ha... It is a big different.

Looks interesting thanks for the link!

Ratio rai to ha is 6.25 to 1 I think...

[timberpond]

Yes... the only problem is that when we read rai written in thai, google will translate it to become ha.

At first I was like WTH? 1 hectare to produce so little? LOL

[passedout]

Yes... the only problem is that when we read rai written in thai, google will translate it to become ha.

At first I was like WTH? 1 hectare to produce so little? LOL

Having said that my translation software it’s not doing a good enough job so I can’t quite read the important numbers. My gf reckons these guys are making 360K b per year on that 1.5 rai of land growing tomatoes. The cost seems to be around 90K b so total profit per rai would be around 180K b per year picking 3 times.

That seems very high and maybe if it were per hectare it would be more believable. But maybe she misread it or there's something amiss!

Also very different than the figure you were showing in one of your earlier posts, which was around 20-25K per rai per year.

[timberpond]

LOL... whenever I get some figures of income from a Thai website, I always reduce it by half. Maybe it's just me, but I learned from experience.

The website stated that it could produce 400 - 800 kg a rai but I told you 300kg on a good season. So if you were to get 300kg x 3 season selling at 25 baht per kg, then it will gives you 22500 baht gross.

Btw, her grandfather told me that cabbage wholesale price is at approximately about 3 baht a kg. So from here you could find out number of cabbages per sqm and estimate the earnings.

I was stupid to think that the thais are lazy when they always plant those crop like cassava, corn... those that need less care thus making less money.

Actually the reason is that they could not get water all year round. Most people has above 10 rai land and could not afford workers.

Why are you not looking into animal farming?

[passedout]

LOL... whenever I get some figures of income from a Thai website, I always reduce it by half. Maybe it's just me, but I learned from experience.

The website stated that it could produce 400 - 800 kg a rai but I told you 300kg on a good season. So if you were to get 300kg x 3 season selling at 25 baht per kg, then it will gives you 22500 baht gross.

Btw, her grandfather told me that cabbage wholesale price is at approximately about 3 baht a kg. So from here you could find out number of cabbages per sqm and estimate the earnings.

I was stupid to think that the thais are lazy when they always plant those crop like cassava, corn... those that need less care thus making less money.

Actually the reason is that they could not get water all year round. Most people has above 10 rai land and could not afford workers.

Why are you not looking into animal farming?

Well…not having an agricultural background it’s turning into a bit of a minefield now! Very interesting nonetheless.

My gf’s family is doing chickens to a certain level, pigs and the odd cow and buffalo. They’re saying they’re doing ok but it’s very time consuming especially with chicken deliveries. What would you advocate?

I’ve noticed those guys in that website are saying they’re making good money out of tomatoes but they only have 1.5 rai of it. I guess they don’t have enough capital as yet or don’t have the capability of producing more and sell it regionally or even nationally and not just locally. Or maybe that variety of tomato doesn’t travel well and they just produce for the local market.

If I knew I could sell as much as I was producing I would certainly increase the amount of land for that use!

[timberpond]

They should be making good money doing chickens. They are the breeder, farmers, middleman and retail seller. This group of people make the most money per chicken. Why don't you try to improve the current business but rather buy agriculture land for farming?

Anyway, we went way too off topic. I had sent you a PM, maybe we continue over there or you could start a new topic in farming section.