Visa Crackdown Brings Expulsion Threat To Expats

[sabaijai]

I know for sure that he couldn't get an American visa with that amount,The Americans say how much you must have in order to get your wife a visa,and it doesn't matter how long you have been married,,Most people think that all that is needed is to get married and then your wife is a resident legally of the USA and nothing is farther from the truth.

But once you get your Thai wife to the States on a tourist visa (or any other visa) she can immediately apply for permanent residence. And it will almost always be granted. No income requirements, no high fees, etc.

My wife was given a US tourist visa upon showing a deed for property she owns here. That was all, no income requirement, no minimum bank account, etc.

The differences in a nutshell: The US is hard to enter the first time, but it's very easy to gain permanent residence once you're there; Thailand is just the opposite, very easy to visit/live temporarily, comparatively more difficult to reside here long-term. It has always been that way, though it admittedly has been getting more difficult in recent years.

If I were in a situation where I was considering an 'O' visa for marriage, I'd get it done right now, before the July change. Stop whining, and do it now.

[otherstuff1957]

Actually, I didn't see any new news in that article at all. Aren't these the "new" rules that we've been discussing for months?

[Rhys]

Alas, Gents.. for we are clever to this gambit..and will find a way.. around this stupidity...

[Foggy Bottom]

Actually, I didn't see any new news in that article at all. Aren't these the "new" rules that we've been discussing for months?

Yes they are exactly the same "new rules" discussed on several ThaiVisa forum threads - some now so full that they have been closed to further postings.

They also relate to this -

"These difficulties appear consistent with BOI overseer Chaturon Chaisaeng’s comments, 30th March 2001, that he would instruct the BOI to "radically review its promotion policy". He advised they should, “follow the governments thrust to promote projects that generate incomes for a large number of people", continuing, "local content and little imported material would be given priority". Several months later, Interior Minister Purachai Piumsomboon stated that he would “clear out the number of foreigners staying in Thailand on one-year visas”, and again on 18th April 2002 said, "We'll also be getting even with countries that do not allow Thais easy access. We'll make it hard for their citizens to get into our country as well.” (Nation 19 April 2002). Purachai was Interior Minister when the Working of Aliens Act (WAA) Section 47 amendments were made law.

In the month the WAA amendments (work permit fees) were written, Labour Minister Dej Boonlong said, ``Foreigners can work here on a one-year basis and must have their permits renewed before they expire. They will pay no more than 1,000 baht in fees a year'' (Bkk Post 31 May 2002). In September 2002, immediately after the first application of the new fees, Khon Kaen NAP MP Premsak Pearyura stated that he wanted work permit fees to be 300,000 Baht a year. Even the Prime Minister had to host and pay for lunch for the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce, in Bangkok, allegedly to apologise for xenophobic comments he’d made......

.......The Ministry of Labour proposed annual work permit fees of 10,000 Baht in November 1999 because white-collar foreigners were earning “Hundreds of thousands of Baht per month”. It passed through Parliament on 18th April 2001 (the first increase since 1978). At that time Minister Dej Boonlong told Parliament the 1000% inflation was small, and Democrat MP Suvaroat Palang added, "Some foreigners end up working in the flesh trade or committing crimes". In the same debate, Thai Rak Thai MP Seksan Sanpoom “urged the government to crackdown on all illegal foreigners, including those begging on the streets of Bangkok”. (All quotes - Bangkok Post, 3 Nov 99 to 19 Apr 01)

Expat urban legend says that Immigration was instrumental in squashing the 2001 increase, because “the economy could not support it”. Perhaps this is why the annual visa fee sensibly remained at 500 Baht until last year?"

The new proposals are part of an ongoing cross-party campaign to return Thailand to the Thais. Perhaps that is why late July now has "Thai Independence Day" which celebrates repaying of the IMF loan that pulled the Kingdom out of the 1997 crash. It is interesting to observe that the most insidious law ammendments were made after repaying that loan, the Cheerless One obviously knew they would not be tolerated by international financial regulators

[castelleone]

what is meant by: farang becoming a social burden to the Thai state? Assuming the case where I dont have any more financial resources available, will the Thai government really support me and in what way?

Isn`t it rather that if I run out of money I have to go back to my home country where the social net is taking care of me? The Thai authorities will never pay my ticket back home if necessary. But my embassy will at least advance the money.

So what is it all about?

[Orion76]

what is meant by: farang becoming a social burden to the Thai state? Assuming the case where I dont have any more financial resources available, will the Thai government really support me and in what way?

Isn`t it rather that if I run out of money I have to go back to my home country where the social net is taking care of me? The Thai authorities will never pay my ticket back home if necessary. But my embassy will at least advance the money.

So what is it all about?

You don't think the farang losers in Bangkwang who did something incredibly stupid because they ended up broke in Thailand are a burden to the state?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

what is meant by: farang becoming a social burden to the Thai state? Assuming the case where I dont have any more financial resources available, will the Thai government really support me and in what way?

Isn`t it rather that if I run out of money I have to go back to my home country where the social net is taking care of me? The Thai authorities will never pay my ticket back home if necessary. But my embassy will at least advance the money.

So what is it all about?

Is it unreasonable that the Thai Government ask both retirees and married / dependant visa recipients demonstrate their ability to take care of theirs ? Blame the visaless poverty packers that walk the borders ... for the present situation.

[aqua4]

Is it unreasonable that the Thai Government ask both retirees and married / dependant visa recipients demonstrate their ability to take care of theirs ? Blame the visaless poverty packers that walk the borders ... for the present situation.

I think that is as short sighted as any one can go. Maybe you should stop putting people down and actually provide some useful information. I few topics in this thread has been interesting:

1. What happens to English teachers where the school does not want to go through the cost or paperwork for a work visa?

2. Does this mean that English classes inThailand will raise to that for the elite only?

3. If it was about border walkers as you so often put it, do you think that alot of falangs in Pattaya would still be here?

4. The money that gets spent each and every day by these "Poverty Packers", who does that support? What is the average office wage in Bangkok, about 10,000 Baht for a middle management post. These poverty packers spend at least 25-30,000 Baht a month. Use private health care and pay double for everything. How much of that money goes to rural Thailand where the Thai welfare system takes care so well of the poor.

We will never be able to change what the Thai government wants. What they want is far from normal considering where we are. It is unrealistic and unreasonable. If you look at the "Big Mac" index, you will see my reasoning. If you cannot see the unreasonableness of it you are clearly not well read. Just as closing the bars at midnight was, just as the Thai elite card, just as the asian crises a few years ago. All great ideas half though through.

And please for a forum that has people such as Sunbelt Asia advertising businesses, I find it unprofessional for a moderator to be so uncouth at the best of times with poster's who are angry and frustrated. Where is you diplomacy?

By the way, could someone please show me where foreigners become a burden to the Thai government.

[FIGJAM]

hi all-

your favorite stir pot...

i find it laughable everyone arguing and parsing the words of the writer. the bottom line is - unless you have the money, you cant stay. period. slice it and dice it anyway you want.

what is seriously f-ed up about this is that no one i can remember even said...gee, poor guy. hes right you know, what a shxt and thanksless thing to do (to us all). i mean the guy is supporting someone here and that is the thanks. the entire policy is wholly daft and im not going to indirectly support it with my money.

the govt is playing each and every one of you for succkers. your life savings will be robbed when the current construction/land bubble comes due. the economist this months states that 15-25% of banks have unservicable loans on books that could crash each institution.

the govt is major, big time ######. foreigners come to thailand and clean up the garbage and chaos the thai men leave behind. they marry women who are unamrryable, take care of lazy, drunken thai mens children. and this is the thanks.

no where has anyone posted. yeah! that sucks. im boycotting thailand....im very curious what would make you boycott? answer =nothing. youll go when the pussy is taken away. until that, youll endure financial rubbish requirements an dendles sinsults.

th etruth gentlemen....it is easier for us/european/aus/nz to come and go and live in each others countries without this bogus requirements than to come and live in a third world country.

i think at a minimum - all foreign asst (ngo, community based orgs...) should be talied and a letter of boycott be presented to govt AND stop funding all programs as a general boycott measure. further, cut off all monies to thai 'wives'. no illusion you all would actually stand up for one another -so maybe it can be done as a anon group.

its is really an outrage the way foreigners are treated. 12 million persons pass thru the country each year acc to tat. and the thanks.....F-you falang! its not just the govt, you see it every day in the attitude in the street these years.

every country has a right to set its own rules however xenophobic and jingoistic. you have a right to visit or not. excercise your right gentlemen. stand for something for once in your life besides in a line for a pint of ale.

ps: the idea that you cant get a 'clear answer' because its songkran, do you ever get a clear answer? i think the fact this board exists says NO. they are playng you all for suckers.

I applaud you!

[taxexile]

Several months later, Interior Minister Purachai Piumsomboon stated that he would “clear out the number of foreigners staying in Thailand on one-year visas”, and again on 18th April 2002 said, "We'll also be getting even with countries that do not allow Thais easy access. We'll make it hard for their citizens to get into our country as well.” (Nation 19 April 2002).

In September 2002, immediately after the first application of the new fees, Khon Kaen NAP MP Premsak Pearyura stated that he wanted work permit fees to be 300,000 Baht a year. Even the Prime Minister had to host and pay for lunch for the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce, in Bangkok, allegedly to apologise for xenophobic comments he’d made......

The new proposals are part of an ongoing cross-party campaign to return Thailand to the Thais. Perhaps that is why late July now has "Thai Independence Day" which celebrates repaying of the IMF loan that pulled the Kingdom out of the 1997 crash. It is interesting to observe that the most insidious law ammendments were made after repaying that loan, the Cheerless One obviously knew they would not be tolerated by international financial

ps: the idea that you cant get a 'clear answer' because its songkran, do you ever get a clear answer? i think the fact this board exists says NO. they are playng you all for suckers.

all very relevant to the situation i think.

[FIGJAM]

It seems like the guy will be able to support his wife,as he has been doing it for a number of years, But could he get a visa for her to go to his country based on the amount of income he has?

I know for sure that he couldn't get an American visa with that amount,The Americans say how much you must have in order to get your wife a visa,and it doesn't matter how long you have been married,,Most people think that all that is needed is to get married and then your wife is a resident legally of the USA and nothing is farther from the truth.

You ask for a visa for your wife and they jack you around for at least 2 years before they issue a temp.perm. resident visa,,if they issue one at all.

[...]

And how can he sue them for human rights because he can't meet requirements to stay in THEIR country.?

I don't know the US laws (although I think the spouse of a US citizen is given a green card and the right to ask for citizenship, later on) but I do know the laws in EU.

I am an Italian, 27yo, and married to a Thai.

My wife has got the right, marrying me, to legally stay in my home country permanently and to get citizenship in 3 years. She hasn't had to meet ANY financial requirement to get her spouse visa (got it in 5 days) and if she weren't working (she is) she would definitely be a burden to my country (contrary to farangs in TH) since we have got a huge welfare state over here and she has all the rights to benefit from it just like any other Italian citizen.

Why is it? Because the basic human right to have a family and to be with one's family _prevails_ (and rightly so bloody ######!).

BTW, I married her near the end of my 2.5+ years stay in LOS and I was obviously NOT working at the time. I hadn't to show I had the means to support a wife. The basic human right to live with your beloved is not a privilege of the rich where I am from.

The situation in Thailand is absolutely unbelievable, not only they disregard "worthless" "meaningless" issues like being with one's spouse/kids but they shoot their own foot shooing away people who contribute to the country and who are fully able to support their family by Thai standard!

They could never be a burden to the state since they have NOT a welfare state nor they give any kind of benefit/assistance to pennyless farangs (and very little, if any, to their own coyntrymen)!

They would just lose the contribute (no matter how small) coming from those expats and from the money they bring in Thailand from the outside and they will just put Thai wifes and kids "on the street".

Well done imbeciles...

Ciao

P.S. They want you to be able to support your family to levels unreacheable by the vast majority of Thais but they don't even give you the right to make a living in their country (my wife can get here whatever job she wants/likes/finds and doesn't have to reach a minimum monthly income based on her country of origin)...

I am now convinced that we should stop being the politically corrected good-samaritan-of-the world idiots that we are and we should begin to reciprocate all the crap we are being given by all those MFs out there.

No churches in muslim countries? No mosques for non-westerns in the West.

No jobs and property rights for us in Thailand? No jobs and property rights for Thais in the West.

And so on......

[taxexile]

I am now convinced that we should stop being the politically corrected good-samaritan-of-the world idiots that we are and we should begin to reciprocate all the crap we are being given by all those MFs out there.

No churches in muslim countries? No mosques for non-westerns in the West.

No jobs and property rights for us in Thailand? No jobs and property rights for Thais in the West.

And so on......

ever heard of the phrase.... to lead by example....?

[pop 3]

Tuff titty jimmy, Nothing personal mate you sound a nice bloke and I admire anyone living in the stick's, but I get sick of hearing about how hard it is for the poor old farang here, most don't know how lucky they are, a yearly visa, your lucky that you where in a position to have had one in the past, I could never raise the money for a first one, The farang here that truly have little money good luck to them, but the other 95% of you rolling in cash deciding which girl to take out the bar and what new car to buy, be thankful for what you've got !

[FIGJAM]

I am now convinced that we should stop being the politically corrected good-samaritan-of-the world idiots that we are and we should begin to reciprocate all the crap we are being given by all those MFs out there.

No churches in muslim countries? No mosques for non-westerns in the West.

No jobs and property rights for us in Thailand? No jobs and property rights for Thais in the West.

And so on......

ever heard of the phrase.... to lead by example....?

"Eye for eye and tooth for tooth" is something that those 3rd world cultures understand much better and much quicker...

They are not that interested in our ideas, values, principles and so called (_by_us_!) "universal" human rights.

[taxexile]

"Eye for eye and tooth for tooth" is something that those 3rd world cultures understand much better and much quicker...

They are not that interested in our ideas, values, principles and so called (_by_us_!) "universal" human rights.

so we should give up our ideas,values and principles and adopt theirs??

the laws here are very flexible and i doubt very much if any foriegner who has lived here for years and has a family here will be denied a renewal of his visa and asked to leave because he is a few baht short in his bank account.

there is a world of difference between government policy and how those laws are actually applied at a district level.

most thais are very welcoming of foriegners here, more welcoming than european cultures are of foriegners to europe.

this present government seems to have its own agenda regarding the foriegn presence here, but they wont be in power forever.

[Phil Conners]

It seems like the guy will be able to support his wife,as he has been doing it for a number of years, But could he get a visa for her to go to his country based on the amount of income he has?

I know for sure that he couldn't get an American visa with that amount,The Americans say how much you must have in order to get your wife a visa,and it doesn't matter how long you have been married,,Most people think that all that is needed is to get married and then your wife is a resident legally of the USA and nothing is farther from the truth.

You ask for a visa for your wife and they jack you around for at least 2 years before they issue a temp.perm. resident visa,,if they issue one at all.

[...]

And how can he sue them for human rights because he can't meet requirements to stay in THEIR country.?

I don't know the US laws (although I think the spouse of a US citizen is given a green card and the right to ask for citizenship, later on) but I do know the laws in EU.

I am an Italian, 27yo, and married to a Thai.

My wife has got the right, marrying me, to legally stay in my home country permanently and to get citizenship in 3 years. She hasn't had to meet ANY financial requirement to get her spouse visa (got it in 5 days) and if she weren't working (she is) she would definitely be a burden to my country (contrary to farangs in TH) since we have got a huge welfare state over here and she has all the rights to benefit from it just like any other Italian citizen.

Why is it? Because the basic human right to have a family and to be with one's family _prevails_ (and rightly so bloody ######!).

BTW, I married her near the end of my 2.5+ years stay in LOS and I was obviously NOT working at the time. I hadn't to show I had the means to support a wife. The basic human right to live with your beloved is not a privilege of the rich where I am from.

The situation in Thailand is absolutely unbelievable, not only they disregard "worthless" "meaningless" issues like being with one's spouse/kids but they shoot their own foot shooing away people who contribute to the country and who are fully able to support their family by Thai standard!

They could never be a burden to the state since they have NOT a welfare state nor they give any kind of benefit/assistance to pennyless farangs (and very little, if any, to their own coyntrymen)!

They would just lose the contribute (no matter how small) coming from those expats and from the money they bring in Thailand from the outside and they will just put Thai wifes and kids "on the street".

Well done imbeciles...

Ciao

P.S. They want you to be able to support your family to levels unreacheable by the vast majority of Thais but they don't even give you the right to make a living in their country (my wife can get here whatever job she wants/likes/finds and doesn't have to reach a minimum monthly income based on her country of origin)...

I am now convinced that we should stop being the politically corrected good-samaritan-of-the world idiots that we are and we should begin to reciprocate all the crap we are being given by all those MFs out there.

No churches in muslim countries? No mosques for non-westerns in the West.

No jobs and property rights for us in Thailand? No jobs and property rights for Thais in the West.

And so on......

BRAVO! Well spoken!!

It is the same situation in most of Europe.

[BlackJack]

Thai discrimination is across the board and not only aimed at Foreigners

Until steps are taken to welcome foreign knowledge, business and money to Thailand it will continue to drag itself down

As an example Australia had the White Australia Policy in the 70's then the lights went on and we decided that it would be a good idea to introduce into Law the Equal Employment Opportunity and Anti Discrimination Law.

The country went from being a racist bunch of yahoo's sitting in South East Asia to being on the World map and having 4 out of 10 of the most visited places of interest on earth

Laws were enforced and each company gave training to every single employee and boss

A special tax levy paid for this

This training / attitude change took years to trickle down and into the mainstream but it did work eventually

If a country does away with the double standards and gives everyone a fair go the doors open for many opportunities for many people.

Just look at the showcase for Australia the last Olympic Games were - and the benefits and rewards are still being seen.

Could Thailand ever stage an international event of this caliber under its present system?

The number of tourists is flagging in Thailand and this will continue its downward trend as foreigners find better value and more welcoming countries. Thailand land of smiles is old hat -it needs a refresher - and its arse about approach has drawn condemnation from leading countries regarding human rights issues.

Continually increasing fees and making legal compliance more difficult shows the discrimination - and the Gold Card for 1 million Baht is the most discriminatory endeavor ever devised

The international press has only to change its view slightly on Thailand and add a few key words like discrimination and its detrimental effect will be bigger than Ben Hur and more damaging than the SARS, Bird Flu, AIDS events in Thais history

Next year the quota system will be changed through out the world and with China on Thailand’s doorstep, it would seem more than likely that with the cheaper goods coming in from China will devastate Thailand’s work force and export capabilities

Now is the time to invite foreign know how / dollars in and not make it so difficult to live and work here. Even the poor farang bugger on 9000 baht a month supporting his family - he is probably teaching English and other skills to the locals in his area.

Skill up your Thai people through bringing in VIA INCENTIVES OS people to train the locals

If you must use the Privilege GOLD CARD - give it to qualified trained people and others for bringing in knowledge (worth more than dollars)

Make it a lottery like the green card in the USA

OR like The Australian Government, it gave permanent residency to overseas Information Technology graduates - as we were short on computer people

So come on Thailand stop the rot - look ahead - plant the seeds for tomorrow - lay off the farang

Knowledge is power

Spell check was done by the som tam lady

[FIGJAM]

so we should give up our ideas,values and principles and adopt theirs??

Not at all, we should simply choose the most effective way to deal with them.

It has been said many times how fool (and even despised by many of his/her PC countrymen) is the westerner who pretends to come to LOS and deal with the locals and the authorities here like he would do in a western country, without trying to understand the "culture" and to adapt his ways to the different world he is now dealing with.

Dealing with Thais like you would do with farangs is a recipe for troubles, don't you agree?

And troubles are all our govts are getting dealing with 3rd world cultures as if they shared our ideas,values and principles...

They do NOT and they do NOT WANT TO.

It's about time to wake up, smell the coffee and kick away all the PC asses we have in the West.

the laws here are very flexible

And that' another one of the big problems Thailand has...

most thais are very welcoming of foriegners here, more welcoming than european cultures are of foriegners to europe.

Really?

Sorry but I am not blind and my Thai is at least decent so I am able to judge for myself how welcoming and genuinely friendly Thais are to foreigners...

IME _no_normal_life_ is possible for foreigners in Thailand. No matter how good you speak their lingo or how much you are understanding of their customs, you are and will always be an outsider, period.

Thais can actually _integrate_ (if so they want) in our countries, we can't in theirs.

The laws we have in the West RE foreigners and the laws Thais have speak for themselves...

Farangs have written "humanitarian" farangs laws, and farangs enforce "humanitarian" farang laws.

Thais have written discriminatory (at best) Thai laws, and Thais enforce discriminatory (at best) Thai laws.

Don't they have a sort of democracy down there? Weren't they over-enthusiast of the ultra-nationalistic crap from a certain party named Thais-love-Thais?

And there also is an issue of personal nature that I would like to add: I am 27 years old, reasonably looking and pretty fit (I was a sportsman) and my wife is 22 years old.

Who in his right mind would ever think, in the West, that we are a hooker/customer couple for ######'s sake???

Well, that was exactly the automatic assumption Thais have been making all the time while we were in LOS. It has reached a point where we were seriously (and I mean seriously) pissed off.

Thais seem to think it's absurd for a beautiful Thai girl (she is very close to the prototype of beauty by their standards) to choose a farang (even a young, fit, good looking and nice one) UNLESS he is seriously loaded.

this present government seems to have its own agenda regarding the foriegn presence here, but they wont be in power forever

This statement shows a serious lack of knowledge on Thai politics (recent) history which I am not going to do the (big) effort to fill...

Anyway, I agree that Toxin is most probably the worst (in this and in so many other regards) of all of them Thai politician clowns.

[Billion]

----------------

[Phil Conners]

It’s hard to say but I think this is how Imm thinking about farang.

If you can’t afford to live in TH then they suggest you take your wife

to your home country in stead.

The point remains, what does locking 400,000 TB up in a non-interesting bearing Thai bank account have to do with whether you can afford living here?

[Thaiquila]

It’s hard to say but I think this is how Imm thinking about farang.

If you can’t afford to live in TH then they suggest you take your wife

to your home country in stead.

The point remains, what does locking 400,000 TB up in a non-interesting bearing Thai bank account have to do with whether you can afford living here?

It doesn't. But it does provide a benefit to Thai business and Thailand. Hard currency that can be lent out that is not going anywhere. Any nation's immigration policy does not have to be fair. If you don't like it, pick another country that is friendlier to foreigners.

The only way I can imagine that there would be pressure for change towards fairness to foreigners in Thailand is through pressure from the specific governments of the home countries of the expats. However, why would the home country governments care? The numbers of expats are relatively small, their wealth not spectacular, and they are not organized. If someone is more ambitious than me in the US, they could start a small Political Action Committee, fund it (probably by membership fees of expats), and lobby congress in the US to raise awareness of the issues, and attempt to push some high priority, targetted issues through diplomatic channels. For pure PR reasons, such a group would be wise to explore the pain Thai aspirees to expatriation to the US are subject to. The street goes both ways.

[Guest Lazarus]

A further thought gents and ladies;

If a hooker earns 1000-1200 baht per night on her back, that is around the 40K. In my village average income sits at about 5,500 baht per month. (Only 1 policeman and he seems fairly straight).

Now lets suppose the government says "ok marry a bar girl and replace her income, rather than live like she and her family hav lived for years", that takes one more hooker out of the flesh trade, puts her kids through school etc.

The old guy on the navy pension proves you can live compfortable on 9500 baht per month, because he is and has been for a while.

Do we then have leave to conjecture that the Thai Government believes that only hookers marry Foreigners? It is a big draw of a long bow, however :

• there is no welfare state, at all.
  
• why would a thai partner require 40K per month to live with a foreigner after she marries?
  

Food for thought and this thread is going well, since there is almost no flaming of "stupidity issues" which is good to see.

Lazarus

[mrmnp]

Speaking only of an issue I know something about, retirement policy, it would seem Australia is a lot tougher than Thailand for a foreign retiree.

It makes sense, from an economics point of view, for a country to encourage well funded retirees to come to their country for retirement, as it is a win-win situation for the host courntry. Influx of unearned income, infusion of new money into the economy, no host country costs and a new population not prone to crime, disruptive behavior, etc.

I invite the Aussie who speaks so highly of his countries "progress" to go to the many Aussie websites provided by his government and see how much money is required to retire there. If you want to call finanacial requirements for foreigners "discrimination" look to your own courntry, mate!

If the Thai government, as a matter of policy, decides that THEIR country would be better served by gettting as many of their citizenery to go to foreign countries to acquire the latest knowledge and technology and then return to enhance their own countries knowledge and technology base as opposed to taking handouts from visiting farang, I think it is a wise policy. "Giving a fish feeds for a day, teaching to fish feeds a lifetime".

The level of financial requirement a host country determines as a minimum for retirement by a foreigner to inhance their enconomic development is their business. It has nothing to do with how much money a local citizen requires to live on.

As far as people "jumping to conclusions" about the relationship between two people seen on the street, it is a quality of human behavior, nothing unique to Thailand. Italy is my favorite country in the whole world and I love to visit it whenever I can, the people, culture and food are the best, HOWEVER, I can buy Italian manufactured products cheaper in Los Angeles than in Italy. Why, becasue of the very "welfare state" issues boasted of in an earlier post. I believe I read recently that France is down to a 38 hour work week. You know what that will do to the cost of their products in the world economy.

I am sure the Thai government would gladly change their immigration policy if expat technocrats and invaluable knowledgeable farang executive would come to Thailand and work for Thai level wages.

Despite the world superpower's complaints about Chinese economic policy, look at what has happened there since Mao departed. I doubt seriously that country would have made such great advances in economic development if they had listened to some of the advice I have read in this thread. China has been the leader in sending citizens abroad to learn from the more advanced technological countries and then using that acquired knowledge to make leaps forward, whether it be their atomic bomb or their manufacturing sector. Their business spies are evidence of that as well. From a country that was 100% foreign dependent for arms after the second world war, to the one of the leading exporters of weapons a decade or two laster, China knew how to do it. They sure didn't rely on farang technocrats living in China for that.

Like George, I am tired of Thai bashing in this forum, however, since there is so much good "stuff" found herein, I must "deal with it", just as the Thai bashers must "deal with it" if they live in Thailand.

[pschef]

It’s hard to say but I think this is how Imm thinking about farang.

If you can’t afford to live in TH then they suggest you take your wife

to your home country in stead.

The point remains, what does locking 400,000 TB up in a non-interesting bearing Thai bank account have to do with whether you can afford living here?

Until last week I was living in Thailand using a multiple entry non O visa, that was not my first. I now have extended that visa for one year, showing funds in a Thai bank. I must point out, at no time was I informed by the nice lady in Chiang Mai Immigration to fix that money for one year or as the quote suggests lock up.

I would also bring to your attention, the reqirement for the one year multiple entry visa has nothing to do with business. That visa is issued on the grounds of mariage or supporting a Thai family, I never heard of this rule changing?

If Thailand intended to change the requirment, why go to the trouble of increasing the fee??

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is it unreasonable that the Thai Government ask both retirees and married / dependant visa recipients demonstrate their ability to take care of theirs ? Blame the visaless poverty packers that walk the borders ... for the present situation.

I think that is as short sighted as any one can go. Maybe you should stop putting people down and actually provide some useful information. I few topics in this thread has been interesting:

1. What happens to English teachers where the school does not want to go through the cost or paperwork for a work visa?

2. Does this mean that English classes inThailand will raise to that for the elite only?

3. If it was about border walkers as you so often put it, do you think that alot of falangs in Pattaya would still be here?

4. The money that gets spent each and every day by these "Poverty Packers", who does that support? What is the average office wage in Bangkok, about 10,000 Baht for a middle management post. These poverty packers spend at least 25-30,000 Baht a month. Use private health care and pay double for everything. How much of that money goes to rural Thailand where the Thai welfare system takes care so well of the poor.

We will never be able to change what the Thai government wants. What they want is far from normal considering where we are. It is unrealistic and unreasonable. If you look at the "Big Mac" index, you will see my reasoning. If you cannot see the unreasonableness of it you are clearly not well read. Just as closing the bars at midnight was, just as the Thai elite card, just as the asian crises a few years ago. All great ideas half though through.

And please for a forum that has people such as Sunbelt Asia advertising businesses, I find it unprofessional for a moderator to be so uncouth at the best of times with poster's who are angry and frustrated. Where is you diplomacy?

By the way, could someone please show me where foreigners become a burden to the Thai government.

Short sighted or not ... they are a major part of this Government initiative, which aims to be rid of the non compliers. The walking illegal teachers won't be missed.

[dighambara]

I am relatively new to the forum but have a sufficient income to qualify for my "retirement" visa, so my take on the entire problem regards the "third world nationals" who marry (without income) and stay. My thinking includes the million or so illegal immigrants who are the real thorn in the side of the Thai government. Thousands of undocumented people cross the borders every day. Those of us who cross legally are being systematically punished for their sins.

The Thai government should be sending its time searching out the undocumented (illegal) immigrants from China, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, Bengladesh, etc., and leave us "legal immigrants" alone.

Michael Weldon

Udon Thani

[Ricardo]

[*]why would a thai partner require 40K per month to live with a foreigner after she marries?

Well my wife & I will have no problem getting through this sort of money on :-

School fees for our kids

Travel & tourism within Thailand

Food & costs of running a house & car

Gifts to Bhudda , mother/father-in-law , rest-of-family

Immigration-fees

And this is all creating jobs in Thailand and bringing hard-currency into the country.

But it is certainly possible to live here for less , while still contributing something to the local economy , and not being a burden on the Thai state finances. And there is nothing morally wrong with living a simpler less-materialistic life, is there ?

It is sad that , in this effort to rid the country of broke farang beggars , other good members of society may also be affected.

I wonder how damaging the publicity might be , to Thailand's international reputation and the struggling tourist-trade , when some desperate farangs are driven by these measures to kill themselves ? Or when they are kicked out , leaving their wives and other dependents to starve , or make whatever illegal living they can ?

Let us hope that the new rules are interpreted , by individual Immigration officers , with sensitivity and common-sense.

[mbkudu]

It’s hard to say but I think this is how Imm thinking about farang.

If you can’t afford to live in TH then they suggest you take your wife

to your home country in stead.

The point remains, what does locking 400,000 TB up in a non-interesting bearing Thai bank account have to do with whether you can afford living here?

Until last week I was living in Thailand using a multiple entry non O visa, that was not my first. I now have extended that visa for one year, showing funds in a Thai bank. I must point out, at no time was I informed by the nice lady in Chiang Mai Immigration to fix that money for one year or as the quote suggests lock up.

I would also bring to your attention, the reqirement for the one year multiple entry visa has nothing to do with business. That visa is issued on the grounds of mariage or supporting a Thai family, I never heard of this rule changing?

If Thailand intended to change the requirment, why go to the trouble of increasing the fee??

I'm thinking here that this guy has said something impotant. He has gone through the process. My guess is that a lot of the ranting is being done by those who haven't done it yet; they're just reading stuff and getting worked up. Another thing is that Thailand being the way that itis, each immigration center and officer for that matter writes its own rules. If you don't like what one says, try another.

My mother is American just shy of retirement age and was thinking of retiring in New Zealand. She filled out an online questionaire and passed the requirements, but only because she owns a home in US that she would have to sell and then invest the cash in NZ. Believe me the required amount is nowhere near 400,000

Baht, try $US 400,000.

[george]

Uncertainty About New Rules For Non-immigrant “o”,

“Grand fathering rule” or not?

As for now Nong Khai Immigration got two different sets of instructions from the Headquarters in Bangkok on how the new financial rules are to be executed/interpreted .

They got one from Division 3 stating that the new rules goes for everybody, which means no “Grand fathering rule”.

They also got one from Division 1, in form of a letter addressed to a member of this forum, saying that the new financial rules only applies to new applicants, e.g. people who applies for extension first time after 9th July 2004, which means that there is a “Grand fathering rule” for former applicants.

Superintendent Pol.Col. Sorrapol, Nong Khai Immigration, has done a big work trying to find out which instruction is to be followed, but so far without any luck. All people at HQ in BK say, “We don’t now” .

Our impression is that nobody really knows, and those two sets of instructions slipped out before anybody got to talk about it across the 4 Divisions.

That has given us a kind of delicate situation, because we are out in a possible “lose face” situation. None of the two Divisions can step forward and say, “We were wrong”. Neither can any of them state about the other, “You are wrong”. So to keep it simple, let’s just say they are both right.

That simply leaves it up to each Immigration District to interpret the rules. Here is the policy Nong Khai Immigration is going to follow (and we quote Superintendent Pol.Col. Sorrapol):

“Of course we hope most people can meet the new demands, and those who possible can, should do so. But if some “oldies” known to us can’t, we will process their applications anyway. Nobody is going to be thrown out because they can’t meet the new financial demands. Still, Bangkok got the final word in this, since they are the ones giving the final approval of all applications”.

Finally some “insider” advice to our readers:

1. Do not approach the Immigration Officer demanding your application to be treated according to the “Grand fathering rule”. Then you can be sure of being informed that the officer has never heard of such rule and your application rejected. As things are now there is officially no such thing as a “Grand fathering rule”. It’s a question of goodwill from the officer whether you get it or not.

2. Only “oldies” known to Nong Khai Immigration will get “oldie” treatment, which means people who has been granted extension before by NKI. People from other districts who might think they got a better chance at NKI can forget about it. They will be treated as newcomers and have to comply with the new financial requirements. (This policy to protect and give NKI’s own “oldies” a better chance of approval).

Source: thaiimmigration.com 2004-04-14

[Jeff1]

Does this apply to ALL farang or only british ?

What about Americans ?

Does owning a house count ?

400,000 at present is $10,256.00 thats alot to be tied up in Thailand .

Where's the smile's now ?