Marraige visa but Caught Drink drive on UK visitor visa

[graywizzard]

Hi all

Seems i have another problem, my long term GF of last 3 years has been here in UK for 5 months 3 weeks but has just been caught and tested at police station 43 over the limit drving home from freinds house (i beleive the fools were mixing drinks) anyway my advice on not drinking was not followed now another BIG problem.....

.

We had just asked for permission to marry here and pick the registary date presuming that she will return to Thai on Jan 16th and then appy fiancee visa we were wanting to marry here in July 2016.

Now given this little nightmare to address she will probably be convicted next week of drink driving, but i might get it delayed by defending the action probably to loose later.

This being a criminal offence will this write off her chances of obtaining a fiancee or marriage visa, i am terribly worried if someone has the experience to advice please.

Currantly i am looking into options to delay the conviction but ultimately I believe she will be convicted even if the court would have to wait 6 months for her return (however given a delay might give time to obtain the marriage or fiancee visa in March or April).

Whats the outcome chaps what best to do ? seems she will loose me and her support and the relations with my children here in the UK as i am not in a position to emigrate to Thailand with young kids here and if she can never come back then we face the end.

AnyUK immigration experts out there please

thanks Mr Wizzard

[sunnyjim5]

Consult a good lawyer but I suspect her chances are now near zero.

[graywizzard]

thanks yes i am looking for lawyers now

i read as below ..............., but for initial applications ie our fiancee or marriage visa application is this the start of ILR or another set of rules ???

Given the dire outlook IF we can apply the visa BEFORE the possible likely conviction will this be a problem later on renewal after 2,5 years ?? or fail on application because of the impending court process.??

Or will it fail later on ILR application ??

Of course she cannot even attend a UK court after Jan16th if there is no further visitor or other visa issued, another problem ?? i wonder what the court will do ???

Anyway i read below

From 13 December 2012 all applications for indefinite leave to remain must not fall for refusal under the general grounds for refusal under the immigration rules which include provisions relating to the applicant’s criminal record.

The new criminality guidance does not permit settlement for persons who, within 24 months prior to the date of the application, have been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they have received a non-custodial sentence, a warning, caution or reprimand which is recorded on their criminal record. When the police decide not to press charges, a caution or a warning may be given to the person who is arrested for a minor offence and admits the wrongdoing. Thus the matter is disposed of out of court and without a formal conviction. Failure to disclose the incident in an immigration application may amount to false representations or deception and may lead to refusal of further leave to remain. Those who intend to settle in the UK have to wait for 24 months after conviction or caution before applying for indefinite leave to remain.

- See more at: http://www.kadmosimmigration.com/blog/good-character-for-ilr-and-citizenship#sthash.AxXqe6ze.dpuf

[NeverSure]

Have you considered reexamining your selection process? Have you considered that this may be a fortuitous window into the future? Do you really want to marry someone who is stuck with a DUI or who would behave in such a way as to get a DUI? This would be your partner and you would always be subject to the consequences of that partner's behavior. Are you sure she has enough wisdom to be ready to be a wife and partner?

Good luck.

[manxninja]

My advice would be just don't tell the authorities she has a conviction.

Trust me most of the time they are too lazy to check. Anyway hope it all works out.

[manarak]

maybe reconsider staying / being a citizen in a country which considers a simple DUI to be a criminal offense that needs to be recorded in the criminal record. way over the top.

[graywizzard]

Thank you for the responses , i do believe your both right

problem is i cannot leave as i have kids here, i have to make it work.

I spend the evening talking to lawyers and suspect she has already pleaded guilty as the form she has says return for sentence on Monday morning.

Its so wrong she does not understand plea or being read a caution, whats "evidence" and whats the implications of what she says her English is not good enough

I think she signed something but she is not sure what it was as it was all in English.

She is a quite and differential to authority same as most Thais and if the police tell her do something then she would just comply.

I feel its worth going to court and asking to enter a new plea of not guilty and asking for a Issan Lao speaking translator and getting a decent lawyer to help her.

Her past life is a farmer far removed from this level of English and laws.

Hmmmmm I am still not clear about her not ever being able to get her marriage visa in the future.

it might be better to save the money for the immigration case as sooner or later i suspect she will be convicted.

Anyone know a good immigration lawyer ?

[NeverSure]

maybe reconsider staying / being a citizen in a country which considers a simple DUI to be a criminal offense that needs to be recorded in the criminal record. way over the top.

A DUI is a criminal offense in the USA. Do you know a Western country where it isn't?

I hate drunk drivers and list them right up there with someone who points a gun at me. They are coming down the highway at 90 kph or so and have the ability to kill me. The punishment I'd give them would be much worse than what they get. Look at Thailand and it's a carnage. There's no excuse for it and I hate it.

Cheers.

[graywizzard]

Reply to neversure

I think you have a point, but simple folk from the North east are more hmmm relaxed lifestyle types, she didn't know she was over the limit and its a judgement thing that even smart city types get wrong.

The problem is for her is that the punishment wont fit the crime if she is barred for getting married in the future with me here because of this more of a slip of sensible over cautiousness that we have to live by over here.

many of my friends opt for not drinking at all which eliminates the temptation to have a bit too much.

I feel sorry for her, yes she was wrong but it was an innocent type of mistake to make, not a premeditated crime such a robbery or no ware as serious as violence.

But for her she may loose everything now and its wrong to be so serious the punishment wont fit the crime.

[Richard W]

I think your fiancée, assuminɡ her sentence is non-custodial, faces a 12 month ban on applying for entry (Rule S-EC.2.5 in Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules) as any sort of family member (including fiancée) or indeed as anyone else (Rule 320(18A) in Part 9). A worse outcome would be a caution conditional on her departing the UK - that gets her a 5-year ban under Rule S-EC.1.8, as would a custodial sentence under S-EC.1.4.

If you married her before she left and immediately applied for FLR, she might get round S-EC.2.5 on human rights grounds if a strong emotional bond has been formed between her and one of your children, but that appears to be a logistically impossible long shot.

[p_brownstone]

maybe reconsider staying / being a citizen in a country which considers a simple DUI to be a criminal offense that needs to be recorded in the criminal record. way over the top.

A DUI is a criminal offense in the USA. Do you know a Western country where it isn't?

I hate drunk drivers and list them right up there with someone who points a gun at me. They are coming down the highway at 90 kph or so and have the ability to kill me. The punishment I'd give them would be much worse than what they get. Look at Thailand and it's a carnage. There's no excuse for it and I hate it.

Cheers.

I completely agree.

I would also add that the Law may be doing the OP - and in particular his young children - a considerable favour. Next time OP, your kids may be in the car with her and she may not be so lucky as to avoid an accident.

Further, it's not a "judgement thing" as you say in a later Post, even small amount of alcohol can impair reaction time and reflexes; the mantra is "don't drink and drive" not "stop drinking when you guess you are near the legal limit".

Patrick

[simple1]

OP: Are you positive you're not conflicting ILR requirements with marriage visa criteria?

Conditions of the Marriage Visa

• Applicants who wish to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) are required to hold the Married Visa for a total of 60 months, with a renewal at 33 months, before they become eligible to apply for ILR.

http://www.visabureau.com/uk/about.aspx

Member 7x7 comes across as a SME expert on UK visa requirements, hopefully he can clarify or as you say contact a registered migration lawyer.

Personally I view morality lectures on marriage suitability as OFF TOPIC - best of luck for the future...

Edited January 10, 2016 by simple1

[bigt3116]

She has been in the UK only just over 5 months, has poor language skills and yet she has a UK driving licence ?

Strange.

[brewsterbudgen]

She has been in the UK only just over 5 months, has poor language skills and yet she has a UK driving licence ?

Strange.

Maybe she was using her Thai DL.

[Aussieroaming]

The reality is that your wife was pissed behind the wheel while a guest in the UK. Instead of trying to find loop holes you would be better off making her face the reifications of what she did and if that means postponing her future plans then suck it up. She needs a wake up call before she kills somebody.

[Aussieroaming]

By the way I should have said girlfriend. People make mistakes, as we have all done, so hopefully she will use this event to learn that drink driving has severe consequences.

[manarak]

maybe reconsider staying / being a citizen in a country which considers a simple DUI to be a criminal offense that needs to be recorded in the criminal record. way over the top.

A DUI is a criminal offense in the USA. Do you know a Western country where it isn't?

I hate drunk drivers and list them right up there with someone who points a gun at me. They are coming down the highway at 90 kph or so and have the ability to kill me. The punishment I'd give them would be much worse than what they get. Look at Thailand and it's a carnage. There's no excuse for it and I hate it.

Cheers.

yes.

most European countries have a more sensible approach and consider DUI a criminal offense only above a particular level of intoxication - for example 1,1 0/00 in Germany or 0,8 0/00 in Switzerland, the limit being 0,5 0/00, the same is valid in France.

So the occasional "glass too much" is still reprimanded by a heavy fine and an official warning, possibly points taken from the license, but is not added to the criminal record.

Inadvertently drinking a little bit more than the limit (for example with friends as described in the OP) but still not being drunk, and then getting tested at 0,51 0/00 and facing harsh and lasting consequences because the limit has technically been crossed by a couple of hundreths of milligrams is too heavy handed IMO, especially if compared to what punishments real criminals are facing for criminal acts they committed willfully, fully intending to damage other people's property or health.

There is a need for balance and justice.

But I don't know if OP's fiancee was heavily intoxicated or not.

[bobrussell]

A criminal offence (if convicted) of this nature must be declared on any application. Failure to do so may well backfire very badly.

Such a conviction is likely to have a very significant impact on attempts to get indefinite leave to remain or be naturalised as a British citizen. It is less likely to have such an impact on temporary leave to remain.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457717/GGFR_Sec4v23_0.pdf

Major criminal offences can prevent indefinite leave being granted but there is plenty of discretionary flexibility for FLR etc. Not trying to minimise the seriousness of drink driving but it is for the court to penalise her, not UKVI.

Lying on an application is much more likely to cause problems than honesty.

People can learn from mistakes!

[NCFC]

Can't you fly to Thailand for a couple of weeks, marry there and apply for a settlement visa in Thailand?

[Richard W]

Can't you fly to Thailand for a couple of weeks, marry there and apply for a settlement visa in Thailand?

They can, but if the decision is made within 12 months of sentencing, she will automatically be refused. The human rights claim for FLR outside the rules will be refused if she is not within the UK at the time of application.

[graywizzard]

Hi All

Thanks for the advice, yes she was on her Thai Driving License and it was a silly mistake she didn't intend to be reckless as indicated by the 43 test it was only just over.

She has learned a hard lesson now she has had the unpleasant experience of a night in the cells and the stress and worry of the courts and now had the conviction I think she has learn a valuable lesson.

I hired a lawyer who spoke well for her (something she could not have done) ultimately she still has the black mark and its a shame if its turns out to be a serious barrier to he making a successful life with me here.

I have take advice from an immigration lawyers and the consensus is that if properly explained this should not present a problem the courts have awarded a small fine £120 and costs £40 and reduced the ban to 9 months if she completes an education course.

The just over indicates she was not reckless and she has no other offences a clean record otherwise.

Its been an expensive lesson.........

I will feedback later if its been a problem for the visa

Thanks all