Police

[FolkGuitar]

What chest beating?

If I've done nothing wrong I refuse to pay. I don't get aggressive. I just sit there, in the way, until they back down and let me get on with my life.

When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop. One has to remember that you're dealing with a mafia organisation, not a police force in public service.

The only time I had to pay was once in Udon when they were playing with the lights at Udon's busiest intersection to catch people going through red lights (hard to stop when the amber was only illuminated for about a second). The tourist policeman who I spoke to said I should only pay 200b, not the 400b they were requesting, so that's what I did.

I'm just sitting here visualizing this...

I'm just sat laughing my cobblers off quote "When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop" 55555555 where are you now top end of China 5555

You carry on being an accessory to crime - I refuse to.

If a policeman is telling you that you must pay a fine, then it stands to reason that you have violated one of Thailand's laws.

Or are you telling us that you are being fined for no reason at all?

Although we've all heard a few people say that they have been told they can pay their fine directly to the policeman, we've also heard many say, "NO! I'll pay at the police station." None have ever suggested that they were being held hostage until payment has been made.

Just what crime are you asked to be accessory to?

[JaseTheBass]

What chest beating?

If I've done nothing wrong I refuse to pay. I don't get aggressive. I just sit there, in the way, until they back down and let me get on with my life.

When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop. One has to remember that you're dealing with a mafia organisation, not a police force in public service.

The only time I had to pay was once in Udon when they were playing with the lights at Udon's busiest intersection to catch people going through red lights (hard to stop when the amber was only illuminated for about a second). The tourist policeman who I spoke to said I should only pay 200b, not the 400b they were requesting, so that's what I did.

I'm just sitting here visualizing this...

I'm just sat laughing my cobblers off quote "When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop" 55555555 where are you now top end of China 5555

You carry on being an accessory to crime - I refuse to.

If a policeman is telling you that you must pay a fine, then it stands to reason that you have violated one of Thailand's laws.

Or are you telling us that you are being fined for no reason at all?

Although we've all heard a few people say that they have been told they can pay their fine directly to the policeman, we've also heard many say, "NO! I'll pay at the police station." None have ever suggested that they were being held hostage until payment has been made.

Just what crime are you asked to be accessory to?

You're getting there!

Yes, it's called extortion. And despite your perfect existence in Thailand, it's actually very common. My Thai family refuse to get involved in it and so do I.

[JaseTheBass]

And 'stand up' to what? If you break the law you have a problem. If you don't break the law you don't have a problem. No need to beat your chest and posture in front of us. We've all been here before...

What chest beating?

If I've done nothing wrong I refuse to pay. I don't get aggressive. I just sit there, in the way, until they back down and let me get on with my life.

When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop. One has to remember that you're dealing with a mafia organisation, not a police force in public service.

The only time I had to pay was once in Udon when they were playing with the lights at Udon's busiest intersection to catch people going through red lights (hard to stop when the amber was only illuminated for about a second). The tourist policeman who I spoke to said I should only pay 200b, not the 400b they were requesting, so that's what I did.

I'm just sitting here visualizing this...

I'm just sat laughing my cobblers off quote "When I had my motorbike, I simply didn't stop" 55555555 where are you now top end of China 5555

You carry on being an accessory to crime - I refuse to.

For goodness sake man lighten up accessorie to crime indeed I was comenting on the fact he never stops meaning he's still going even now hence top of china

Solly. I didn't see the smiley.

[Konini]

Yes - in Australia the person who gives the bribe is punished equally to the one that gives it, and rightly so in my opinion. I abhor corruption in any form and refuse to participate in it. And yes, I have been inconvenienced more than once for refusing to pay immigration officials and police in Cambodia. I fold my arms and dig my heels in. I would rather be held up and inconvenienced than contribute to this insidious practice. I also believe that farangs are less likely to be asked for extra payments because of the language barrier and because we are more likely to make a fuss; it's a risk every time they ask farangs to commit a crime, which is what giving a bribe is.

Almost every time this comes up I repeat the same thing. Mr K has been fined twice, both times his fault and neither time was there any hint of anything but a ticket being written then off to the police station to pay. He's been through dozens of road blocks, sometimes he gets stopped sometimes he doesn't, sometimes it's just him and sometimes I'm with him. He has the correct licence and when the police see it they wave him through. He has never been asked for a payment that wasn't documented, and if he was he wouldn't pay it. We have a lot of friends and this topic comes up occasionally; nobody I know has been asked for an illegal payment. Not one single person, and I truly believe that all of them would refuse to pay if asked, but nobody has been. Only people I don't know on the internet.

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

[MaeJoMTB]

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

In CM they always insist on a bribe.

I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

[FolkGuitar]

.......................... I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

I've heard of it happening often,..... but ONLY here on ThaiVisa!

Despite many road blocks, and even having an expired tax sticker once, I've never experienced any police corruption, nor have I ever heard of any directly from someone who has experienced it themselves.

It's always "my friend paid," or "my wife's cousin said she paid," or "some people were talking about it at the pub last night."

I guess the real question to ask is, just why are the 2-3 people here on ThaiVisa who keep reporting it getting fined SO OFTEN that they actually meet the rare policeman who demands a bribe, when none of the rest of us are ever in that situation in the first place, despite coming in contact with the police often?

Edited January 17, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[MaeJoMTB]

I guess the real question to ask is, just why are the 2-3 people here on ThaiVisa who keep reporting it getting fined SO OFTEN that they actually meet the rare policeman who demands a bribe, when none of the rest of us are ever in that situation in the first place, despite coming in contact with the police often?

I always assumed the apologists were either lying, or too stupid to recognize the 'bribe me' hand out.

[FolkGuitar]

I guess the real question to ask is, just why are the 2-3 people here on ThaiVisa who keep reporting it getting fined SO OFTEN that they actually meet the rare policeman who demands a bribe, when none of the rest of us are ever in that situation in the first place, despite coming in contact with the police often?

I always assumed the apologists were either lying, or too stupid to recognize the 'bribe me' hand out.

Are you really in violation of Thai laws so often that this happens to you frequently? Seems to me, the word 'stupid' would be better applied to someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes the first time...

Edited January 17, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[CMKiwi]

I've only been stopped twice while riding my motorbike. Both times I did not have the correct licence, I did have a NZ licence but no IDP and anyways Ive been here in CM longer than 3 years.

I had no / have no problem in getting fined as I had broken the law by riding as such. The only concern I had is that both times when I was asked if I pay at station, and I replied yes I will pay at station...they said no you pay now. On both occassions no ticket was forthcoming.

Is this a type of bribe although I never asked to pay on the spot? Or is this a form of corruption? Maybe I wasnt forceful enough to demand that I want a ticket and that Id pay at the station. And in hindsight it was an easier way just to pay on the spot.

Now that I have a Thai licence I feel that I have a better leg to stand on should I ever get stopped by an 'inpromptu' or random checkpoint. If I havent committed a crime then I sure a hell wont be doing the time.....maybe easier said than done?

Overall Ive never had a problem with Thai police, Im courteous to them and generally get the same in return (Although Id probably never know as my Thai is extremely weak). Those that have spoken to me in English have been very polite.

[bazza40]

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

In CM they always insist on a bribe.

I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

Not all of us are privileged to have a senior police officer as a relative by marriage. You're part of the corruption other posters are denouncing, although personally I don't care.

I've been pinged a few times, and each time it's been an infraction. The only time I thought it was wrong was the registration on my car sticker expired, when I had the paperwork to prove the following year's registration had been paid. I did insist on going to the station for that one. On the other hand, I've also been let off on grey areas. Can't say I've encountered any police who were aggressive.

I do have to wonder why TV posters start frothing at the mouth over 200 baht. Minimum in Australia is about 3000 baht.

[MaeJoMTB]

Are you really in violation of Thai laws so often that this happens to you frequently? Seems to me, the word 'stupid' would be better applied to someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes the first time...

My family get ticketed once or twice a year.

I'm never in violation of any law in Thailand. But my wife and our teen have no d/ls.

(I don't control them, it's not my business)

No helmets, no d/l, 3 teens on a bike, etc. Normal Thai stuff.

I also drive around with a bunch of guys on scooters.

Most normal people have friends and family in Thailand.

We aren't all living isolated foreigner lives, insulated from the real world by their Issan farm girl.

Only ever venturing out to play/listen to bad 70s music at foreigner 'jam bars'.

Edited January 17, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[JaseTheBass]

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

In CM they always insist on a bribe.

I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

Not all of us are privileged to have a senior police officer as a relative by marriage. You're part of the corruption other posters are denouncing, although personally I don't care.

I've been pinged a few times, and each time it's been an infraction. The only time I thought it was wrong was the registration on my car sticker expired, when I had the paperwork to prove the following year's registration had been paid. I did insist on going to the station for that one. On the other hand, I've also been let off on grey areas. Can't say I've encountered any police who were aggressive.

I do have to wonder why TV posters start frothing at the mouth over 200 baht. Minimum in Australia is about 3000 baht.

1baht, 10000000baht it's still wrong and I refuse to lower myself to the level of the TP.

[KMartinHandyman]

When together I drive and my wife sits behind and tells me what to do . When the police whistle and point she says "no stop Honey" So far no pursuits.

The one time I stopped I gave my IDP, smiled and let her do all the talking. A few minutes we were on our way no problem.

[FolkGuitar]

Are you really in violation of Thai laws so often that this happens to you frequently? Seems to me, the word 'stupid' would be better applied to someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes the first time...

My family get ticketed once or twice a year.

I'm never in violation of any law in Thailand. But my wife and our teen have no d/ls.

(I don't control them, it's not my business)

No helmets, no d/l, 3 teens on a bike, etc. Normal Thai stuff.

I also drive around with a bunch of guys on scooters.

Most normal people have friends and family in Thailand.

We aren't all living isolated foreigner lives, insulated from the real world by their Issan farm girl.

Only ever venturing out to play/listen to bad 70s music at foreigner 'jam bars'.

... and speaking of mistakes... Are you sure you want to make this statement? That you are never in violation of any law in Thailand?

Because in your post #125 you state:

"I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

These two posts would seem to contradict each other...

If you never violate the laws, why would need to insist on a ticket for which your police contact returns your driver's license? Not your wife's. Not your teen's. Not some Isaan farm girl's. YOUR driver's license. Or will you now try to tell us that the police take your driver's license when someone else breaks the law?

And your family gets ticketed once or twice a YEAR?!? Are they unable to learn from their mistakes? It appears that you set some example for them to follow...

[Sutty]

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

In CM they always insist on a bribe.

I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

Not all of us are privileged to have a senior police officer as a relative by marriage. You're part of the corruption other posters are denouncing, although personally I don't care.

I've been pinged a few times, and each time it's been an infraction. The only time I thought it was wrong was the registration on my car sticker expired, when I had the paperwork to prove the following year's registration had been paid. I did insist on going to the station for that one. On the other hand, I've also been let off on grey areas. Can't say I've encountered any police who were aggressive.

I do have to wonder why TV posters start frothing at the mouth over 200 baht. Minimum in Australia is about 3000 baht.

1baht, 10000000baht it's still wrong and I refuse to lower myself to the level of the TP.

And TP is I presume short for Thai People ??? Because your so much better than them arn't you. Bigot

[ALFREDO]

If you had everything in order, what was the "form"?

What did he throw away?

For fine go pay at station to get license back.

Argued about it not being correct license.

you know what they like try anything for their whiskey money.

Come in ISSAN, no problems here.

[Konini]

I've only been stopped twice while riding my motorbike. Both times I did not have the correct licence, I did have a NZ licence but no IDP and anyways Ive been here in CM longer than 3 years.

I had no / have no problem in getting fined as I had broken the law by riding as such. The only concern I had is that both times when I was asked if I pay at station, and I replied yes I will pay at station...they said no you pay now. On both occassions no ticket was forthcoming.

Is this a type of bribe although I never asked to pay on the spot? Or is this a form of corruption? Maybe I wasnt forceful enough to demand that I want a ticket and that Id pay at the station. And in hindsight it was an easier way just to pay on the spot.

Now that I have a Thai licence I feel that I have a better leg to stand on should I ever get stopped by an 'inpromptu' or random checkpoint. If I havent committed a crime then I sure a hell wont be doing the time.....maybe easier said than done?

Overall Ive never had a problem with Thai police, Im courteous to them and generally get the same in return (Although Id probably never know as my Thai is extremely weak). Those that have spoken to me in English have been very polite.

Sorry to tell you, but no ticke/receipt means that yes, it was corruption and you paid a bribe, although you don't seem to be the type to do it willingly and you sound as though you might dig your heels in if it's tried on again. It would be much, much easier to pay on the spot, on both occasions we were pinged we had to go out of our way to the police station, but having said that we once sat for almost 4 hours on the Cambodian border refusing to move and advising everyone who went through that the charges they were paying were illegal, resulting in a lot of people complaining until they relented and let us go through at the correct price; the price on the banner sized poster behind them telling everybody how much to pay. Much easier to just bite the bullet and pay, it's only a couple of dollars after all isn't it? But it's a couple of dollars of illegal payments, a couple of dollars of bribery, and I can't bring myself to do it because it goes against everything I was brought up to believe in, it's dishonest, and it would contribute to something I feel very strongly about.

Bribery drives the people trade. Without bribes there would be no human trafficking. There wouldn't be tens if not hundreds of thousands of people around the world stuck in seafood factories or on fishing boats or in sulphur mines or in prostitution, and they're just the ones I've read reliable reports on. Not so simple as just a couple of dollars now is it? Each to their own of course, most people tell me I'm crazy and should just pay because after all, it's only a couple of dollars. I tell them that as soon as my head hits the pillow I fall asleep with a totally clear conscience. I don't intentionally break any laws or do anything that will result in harm to anyone or anything. Most people aren't so fussy and can convince their conscience that it's OK because, well, it's only a couple of dollars isn't it?

I find that the subject of bribery is very much like the only other thing I dig my heels in about and that's drink driving. There's no point in arguing about either subject, because most people agree with me and those who don't aren't ever going to change their minds (unless they are directly affected by the actions of someone who has been driving after drinking), and they tend to find all sorts of different ways to justify their views. The two things are as wrong as each other in my opinion Being just a bit over the limit is viewed as being OK, but being 4 or 5 times over the limit is viewed as being bad. Most people will go along with that. In exactly the same way paying a couple of dollars is viewed as being OK but a government official being paid a couple of million dollars is viewed as bad and an official being bribed any amount to look the other way while people are trafficked as virtual slaves is bad, and nobody will disagree with that. So, what's the cut off point? Paying a couple of dollars is OK, but what about say, $10 - is bad? $50? $100? $1,000? Where does bribery stop being OK and start being bad? For me, it's all wrong. Even the couple of dollars you give to the policeman for not wearing your helmet or to pay for a supposedly free certificate of residence at immigration.

It's all about standards, and we all have our own set of them. I won't try to impose my standards on anyone else, but I won't do anything that makes me do something that I believe is fundamentally wrong. To me, the inconvenience is worth it. Other people's time may be more valuable than their sense of right and wrong. That's their decision.

Each to their own.

[Konini]

I believe that the people who do make these illegal and immoral payments are just as bad as the corrupt officers. I also believe that if it happens, and I repeat that I don't know one single person it has happened to, an ex gratia payment is offered rather than asked for.

In CM they always insist on a bribe.

I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

I can't agree with this, they certainly don't always insist on a bribe. No policeman has ever asked us for a bribe. No policeman has ever asked anyone I know for a bribe. On the times we and our friends have been in the wrong, a ticket has been issued without any mention of paying on the spot. We have been stopped literally dozens of times. Twice in one day in early December. Our friends have been stopped probably the same amount of times that we have. I say again; nobody I know in real life has ever been asked to pay on the spot.

I'm not saying it never happens, just that I don't know anyone who has had this happen to them.

(None of us have friends in high places that I know of).

[MaeJoMTB]

And your family gets ticketed once or twice a YEAR?!? Are they unable to learn from their mistakes? It appears that you set some example for them to follow...

We have been stopped literally dozens of times. Twice in one day in early December. Our friends have been stopped probably the same amount of times that we have. I say again; nobody I know in real life has ever been asked to pay on the spot.

hmmmmmm,

You seem to be having a small double standard problem.

Konini doesn't sound like a habitual criminal to me and yet ...............

PS

Gotta love all the old white guys, sweat about police tickets, but happy to use prostitutes and work illegally singing in bars without a WP (and probably drive home DUI).

Edited January 18, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[FolkGuitar]

hmmmmmm,

You seem to be having a small double standard problem.

Konini doesn't sound like a habitual criminal to me and yet ...............

PS

Gotta love all the old white guys, sweat about police tickets, but happy to use prostitutes and work illegally singing in bars without a WP (and probably drive home DUI).

You can love old white guys as much as you want. No one cares about your sexual orientation. But it's not going to

explain your contradictory posting. Let's try again.

... and speaking of mistakes... Are you sure you want to make the statement you make in post #131? That you are never in violation of any law in Thailand?

Because in your post #125 you state:

"I've argued many times and INSIST on a ticket, mainly 'cos I don't need to pay them.

(police contact higher up the chain writes them off for me and returns my D/L)

These two posts would seem to contradict each other...

If you never violate the laws, why would need to insist on a ticket for which your police contact returns your driver's license? Not your wife's. Not your teen's. Not some Isaan farm girl's. YOUR driver's license. Or will you now try to tell us that the police take your driver's license when someone else breaks the law?

Edited January 18, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[Berkshire]

I've lived here and driven here for 15 years. It doesn't happen 'a lot.' It happens. There are dishonest people all over the world, including Thailand. What DOES happen is that 'some' foreigners believe that they are being targeted by police because they get caught breaking the law. Those who don't break the law rarely make posts saying they are being the subject of some police 'scam.' I'm not suggesting that it doesn't happen. I'm stating that there are dishonest people in all countries.

I'm on the road every day of the week. I've done so for 15 years. I ride all over Chiang Mai city and Chiang Mai province. I'm a farang. My face and my body shape are obviously foreign. I've been stopped many times in many different areas. I've been waved through many different check points. Sometimes the police are only stopping people who are not wearing helmets. Sometimes they are stopping everyone looking at documentation. In all these years, and in all these stops, I have NEVER seen any indication what so ever of targeting foreigners or license 'scams.' While there may well be some dishonest people working as police, just as there are dishonest people working in every profession, you are in far greater danger of getting ripped off by some fellow tourist than by a local.

Absolutely spot on, agree 100%. There are certain delusional farangs with a chip-on-their-shoulder who insists that they're being targeted. But of course, every time they receive a traffic citation it's because they've broken the law in some way. They just don't have the balls to admit that they're in the wrong. Like you, I've been driving every single day for 10+ years and rarely get stopped. But every time that I've received a citation, it's because I've done something wrong. I have seen no credible evidence that foreigners in Chiang Mai are or have ever been targeted. It's not happening.

[JaseTheBass]

And TP is I presume short for Thai People ??? Because your so much better than them arn't you. Bigot

Err, no. Thai Police.

Thai people are thewonderfulsmilingpeoplewhowelcomeuswithopenarmsintotheirbeautifulunpollutedparadise.

[Rob13]

BiB's a corrupt system. If you pay for your ticket in full at the police station where do you think it ends up? A fund to improve Thai law enforcement and make the streets safer or a fund for the Bib to reward themselves when they've done a 'good job'? When dealing with corrupt systems, phrases like'just following the law' and 'just following orders' is an excuse to perpetuate the corruption.

Unless you plan on digging in and fighting the corruption;you're better off to just extricate yourself with as little damage and financial input as possible. No way in hell would I willingly fork over 500 baht to the BiB after reading about their recent exploits.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Rob13

[MadMac]

Roadblock today at the south west side of the moat, but as usual they caught bikes. Saw one old pickup stopped too.

[FolkGuitar]

BiB's a corrupt system. If you pay for your ticket in full at the police station where do you think it ends up? A fund to improve Thai law enforcement and make the streets safer or a fund for the Bib to reward themselves when they've done a 'good job'? .

Please post a citation to back this up. I'd be interested to see it.

[Rob13]

BiB's a corrupt system. If you pay for your ticket in full at the police station where do you think it ends up? A fund to improve Thai law enforcement and make the streets safer or a fund for the Bib to reward themselves when they've done a 'good job'? .

Please post a citation to back this up. I'd be interested to see it.

2 Citations:

1. Koh Tao, check the other thread

2.http://time.com/3674200/thailand-tourism-police-corruption-shakedown-extortion/

Edited January 18, 2016 by Rob13

[MadMac]

I don't mind if they pocket 200B for getting the idiot tourists who try to get killed off the streets.

[Berkshire]

Roadblock today at the south west side of the moat, but as usual they caught bikes. Saw one old pickup stopped too.

Were they stopping only farangs? My guess is "no."

[MadMac]

Roadblock today at the south west side of the moat, but as usual they caught bikes. Saw one old pickup stopped too.

Were they stopping only farangs? My guess is "no."

Nope, no helmet, you're done.

[Berkshire]

Roadblock today at the south west side of the moat, but as usual they caught bikes. Saw one old pickup stopped too.

Were they stopping only farangs? My guess is "no."

Nope, no helmet, you're done.

Thanks for the confirmation. Wonder if the OP is man enough to admit that he's flatout wrong?