Former Dutch soldier arrested for fighting Islamic State

[stevenl]

In 2014 they sais:

Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable. Now its no longer forbidden, said Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch public prosecutor. You just cant join a fight against the Netherlands.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/outlaw-bikers-join-with-kurds-to-fight-isis-in-iraq

Stupid Dutch judges and police.. fighting ISIL should be legal. I can understand people joining ISIL should be punished but not the other way around. Judges probably want to appear impartial as not to offend the muslims living in the Netherlands

For the record I am Dutch and think this is a stupid decision.

I think it is the right decision.

There has been no conviction, the only decision that has been made it that there will be an investigation to decide whether he has acted according to the law or not. And that is how a justice system should work: find out if somebody has acted legally or not, and if required take action as soon as the facts have been established.

I don't agree.. it might be how the law works but unless they can pin some war crimes on him just fighting ISIS should not be a reason for prosecuting him. That would be like picking you up for running a dive shop and then checking if we can pin something on you while from the start its clear that unless you ran the dive shop to con people there should be no reason to even investigate you.

Unless they got information that he committed war crimes, just fighting the bad guys should not warrant such an investigation. Muslims fighting for the enemy have come of easier as this guy. Just plain stupid.

They are not prosecuting, at least not yet, they are investigation. That may lead to a prosecution or not.

He joined a foreign fighting force, seems reason to me to investigate if that is allowed yes or no.

[oneday]

This is ludicrous. What warped minds politicians and judges have in this country. ISIS is the scourge of the earth and they need to be wiped off the face of it. ISIS is probably laughing up a storm at this stupidity.

[stickylies]

i don't know the law in Holland but if it's forbidden to join foreign armies (?) or something like that then it's like that right... if you saw a guy assaulting his wife u still don't have the right to kill the guy no matter how noble your intentions are....

last year i saw a documentary about ex-Iraq-war US soldiers/veterans who gave military training to rebels against ISIL and they also said they could face prosecution in the US for that.....

[weegee]

So when can Politicians and Judges be prosecuted ?....For doing nothing....except making us sit on our hands and watch the world disintegrate.

[Linky]

So when can Politicians and Judges be prosecuted ?....For doing nothing....except making us sit on our hands and watch the world disintegrate.

Judges dont make the law.

You want them prosecuted for NOT breaking the law?

[Tchooptip]

In 2014 they sais:

Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable. Now its no longer forbidden, said Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch public prosecutor. You just cant join a fight against the Netherlands.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/outlaw-bikers-join-with-kurds-to-fight-isis-in-iraq

Stupid Dutch judges and police.. fighting ISIL should be legal. I can understand people joining ISIL should be punished but not the other way around. Judges probably want to appear impartial as not to offend the muslims living in the Netherlands

For the record I am Dutch and think this is a stupid decision.

"Judges probably want to appear impartial as not to offend the muslims living in the Netherlands"

Our politicians in Europe told us daily the average Muslims have nothing to do with ISIL, so "normally" your answer should not be logical.

for the following of your answer, if you allow me, it is not a stupid decision but IMHO it is a disgracefully bad one

[robblok]

I think it is the right decision.

There has been no conviction, the only decision that has been made it that there will be an investigation to decide whether he has acted according to the law or not. And that is how a justice system should work: find out if somebody has acted legally or not, and if required take action as soon as the facts have been established.

I don't agree.. it might be how the law works but unless they can pin some war crimes on him just fighting ISIS should not be a reason for prosecuting him. That would be like picking you up for running a dive shop and then checking if we can pin something on you while from the start its clear that unless you ran the dive shop to con people there should be no reason to even investigate you.

Unless they got information that he committed war crimes, just fighting the bad guys should not warrant such an investigation. Muslims fighting for the enemy have come of easier as this guy. Just plain stupid.

They are not prosecuting, at least not yet, they are investigation. That may lead to a prosecution or not.

He joined a foreign fighting force, seems reason to me to investigate if that is allowed yes or no.

“Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable. Now it’s no longer forbidden,” said Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch public prosecutor. “You just can’t join a fight against the Netherlands.”

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

The fact the guy was brought in for questioning ( no arrest ) and that he has to give account for his deeds, and give him the possibility to justify for what he did, is what the Netherlands distinguishes from IS.

No one, not even special forces in action with license to kill, can kill without having to justify themselves for an independent tribunal.

This is what you call a legal state,which is also to protect anyone who disagrees with this.

[stevenl]

I think it is the right decision.

There has been no conviction, the only decision that has been made it that there will be an investigation to decide whether he has acted according to the law or not. And that is how a justice system should work: find out if somebody has acted legally or not, and if required take action as soon as the facts have been established.

I don't agree.. it might be how the law works but unless they can pin some war crimes on him just fighting ISIS should not be a reason for prosecuting him. That would be like picking you up for running a dive shop and then checking if we can pin something on you while from the start its clear that unless you ran the dive shop to con people there should be no reason to even investigate you.

Unless they got information that he committed war crimes, just fighting the bad guys should not warrant such an investigation. Muslims fighting for the enemy have come of easier as this guy. Just plain stupid.

They are not prosecuting, at least not yet, they are investigation. That may lead to a prosecution or not.

He joined a foreign fighting force, seems reason to me to investigate if that is allowed yes or no.

“Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable. Now it’s no longer forbidden,” said Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch public prosecutor. “You just can’t join a fight against the Netherlands.”

They are investigating, and rightfully so. As usual on TV and other fora all the pundits know exactly what to do and how to act, how the exact law is formulated and explained, etc. In the Netherlands there is a very well functioning judicial system to sort out things like this.

[Ulic]

Common sense is rarely common in a government bureaucracy.

[than]

Is the Netherlands sponsoring ISIL?

first one, a lot European country ban mercenary activity and people who join this activity could be prosecute.......

second, justice in European country based on equality, and lawmaker on these countries have legislated on the matter. If you prosecute one of your citizen because he fought for DAESH (a foreign military group), you must prosecute a people who fight for kudish army (a foreign military group) in the name of Equality.....

It's one of European freedom limit.....

[MW72]

Is the Netherlands sponsoring ISIL?

The Dutch government sounds like Socialist not wanting you to participate in any war not their's.You will notice even though they are buying war planes and arms that they are not assisting the UK,or The US in fighting the isis in The Mid East....

I am afraid you are wrong. There are a contingent of Dutch soldiers involved in the mission to train the Peshmerga in Iraq which would make any decision to prosecute this man for fighting with the Kurds in Syria seem all the more bizarre.

Edited January 16, 2016 by MW72

[MiKT]

In 2014 they sais:

Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable. Now its no longer forbidden, said Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch public prosecutor. You just cant join a fight against the Netherlands.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/outlaw-bikers-join-with-kurds-to-fight-isis-in-iraq

Stupid Dutch judges and police.. fighting ISIL should be legal. I can understand people joining ISIL should be punished but not the other way around. Judges probably want to appear impartial as not to offend the muslims living in the Netherlands

For the record I am Dutch and think this is a stupid decision.

I think it is the right decision.

There has been no conviction, the only decision that has been made it that there will be an investigation to decide whether he has acted according to the law or not. And that is how a justice system should work: find out if somebody has acted legally or not, and if required take action as soon as the facts have been established.

I don't agree.. it might be how the law works but unless they can pin some war crimes on him just fighting ISIS should not be a reason for prosecuting him. That would be like picking you up for running a dive shop and then checking if we can pin something on you while from the start its clear that unless you ran the dive shop to con people there should be no reason to even investigate you.

Unless they got information that he committed war crimes, just fighting the bad guys should not warrant such an investigation. Muslims fighting for the enemy have come of easier as this guy. Just plain stupid.

So neglegently running a dive shop through laziness or shear ignorance and cutting corners is ok la? Just as long as you are jai de.

It only matters if he broke Dutch law. I hope he did not and can go back to honest employment shooting Daesh. Not killing people "accidently" because he runs a crap dive shop.

[Scott]

A comment on moderation has been removed.

[arjunadawn]

One more example of Western government's dhimmitude. Use the apparatus of State to impose the goals of islamic jihad. This is not remotely a surprise. Everywhere one turns those opposing islamic jihad are marked as "the" problem.

[Pete Beale]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

[MiKT]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

That appears to be contradictory, would you care to elaborate?

The FFL are certainly a French Government Force and I am sure that the French are still considered to be foreigners in Australia. They are in most civilised countries.

[Pete Beale]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

That appears to be contradictory, would you care to elaborate?

The FFL are certainly a French Government Force and I am sure that the French are still considered to be foreigners in Australia. They are in most civilised countries.

What's contradictory ?

Australians can serve in a foreign force if it is that of the foreign government, the French Foreign Legion is a force of the French government therefore Australians can serve in it without breaking any Australian laws. What they cannot do is serve in a force not of a foreign government, for instance ISIS or any other non government forces in the Syria.

[MiKT]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

That appears to be contradictory, would you care to elaborate?

The FFL are certainly a French Government Force and I am sure that the French are still considered to be foreigners in Australia. They are in most civilised countries.

What's contradictory ?

Australians can serve in a foreign force if it is that of the foreign government, the French Foreign Legion is a force of the French government therefore Australians can serve in it without breaking any Australian laws. What they cannot do is serve in a force not of a foreign government, for instance ISIS or any other non government forces in the Syria.

Aha, thank you so much, merely a matter of sentence construction then. Are you of French decent by any chance?

Just to be contradictory, don't ISIS consider themselves to be a legal government? A caliphate who would like to introduce sharia law "all over the world" (like in the song) even in Australia.

[Pete Beale]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

That appears to be contradictory, would you care to elaborate?

The FFL are certainly a French Government Force and I am sure that the French are still considered to be foreigners in Australia. They are in most civilised countries.

What's contradictory ?

Australians can serve in a foreign force if it is that of the foreign government, the French Foreign Legion is a force of the French government therefore Australians can serve in it without breaking any Australian laws. What they cannot do is serve in a force not of a foreign government, for instance ISIS or any other non government forces in the Syria.

Aha, thank you so much, merely a matter of sentence construction then. Are you of French decent by any chance?

Just to be contradictory, don't ISIS consider themselves to be a legal government? A caliphate who would like to introduce sharia law "all over the world" (like in the song) even in Australia.

I'm British by birth, English by the grace of God. I recall reading about the Australian foreign fighters situation a year or so ago in relation to Aussie lebs joining ISIS.

[MiKT]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

That appears to be contradictory, would you care to elaborate?

The FFL are certainly a French Government Force and I am sure that the French are still considered to be foreigners in Australia. They are in most civilised countries.

What's contradictory ?

Australians can serve in a foreign force if it is that of the foreign government, the French Foreign Legion is a force of the French government therefore Australians can serve in it without breaking any Australian laws. What they cannot do is serve in a force not of a foreign government, for instance ISIS or any other non government forces in the Syria.

Aha, thank you so much, merely a matter of sentence construction then. Are you of French decent by any chance?

Just to be contradictory, don't ISIS consider themselves to be a legal government? A caliphate who would like to introduce sharia law "all over the world" (like in the song) even in Australia.

I'm British by birth, English by the grace of God. I recall reading about the Australian foreign fighters situation a year or so ago in relation to Aussie lebs joining ISIS.

Don't get your knickers in too much of a twist, I am British, English by grace of my mom and dad. But I also have French ancestors. Just winding you up old boy, old boy, what! Your sentence construction would make your English teachers send you to the back of the class.

In my case they would have sent me for a smack around the head, or worse.

[Linky]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

I also dont think they can if that foreign force is fighting against australian forces.

If fighting for a foreign force wouldnt that mean you would have to become a citizen to join it?

[MiKT]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

I also dont think they can if that foreign force is fighting against australian forces.

If fighting for a foreign force wouldnt that mean you would have to become a citizen to join it?

Certainly not in the French case, they don't let the sort of scum they want in the Foreign Legion sully France by becoming citizens. That's why it's the Foreign Legion.

[Linky]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

I also dont think they can if that foreign force is fighting against australian forces.

If fighting for a foreign force wouldnt that mean you would have to become a citizen to join it?

Certainly not in the French case, they don't let the sort of scum they want in the Foreign Legion sully France by becoming citizens. That's why it's the Foreign Legion.

But an aussie in it would not be allowed to fight against an oz force.

[Pete Beale]

Happened to an australian as well. It is illegal to head off and fight for a foreign force. Stands to reason.

Only if that foreign force is not that of the foreign government, an Australian can quite legally serve in say the French Foreign Legion and could also serve in the Syrian government forces.

I also dont think they can if that foreign force is fighting against australian forces.

If fighting for a foreign force wouldnt that mean you would have to become a citizen to join it?

I believe foreigners can join the UK armed forces without being or becoming UK citizens. Nepalese routinely serve as Ghurkas, plenty of Fijians serve too.

A school friend of mine moved to USA aged 12, when he was in his early 30's he was threatened with being deported due to never taking citizenship. He couldn't get citizenship as he'd been in some sort of law troubles, he was advised the only way to get citizenship was to join the forces. Whilst he was doing basic training in the army September 11th happened, he avoided Afghanistan but was sent to Iraq. He got his citizenship but don't know if it was a requisite of serving, it wasn't a prerequisite.

[MiKT]

Linky

But an aussie in it would not be allowed to fight against an oz force.

--------------------------------

miKT - to many blocks of text.

No that would be treason.

I believe that in WWII there were still some British guys serving with the FFL when it came under Vichy France, and when another (Free French) part of the Legion came under British control there was at least one battle between the opposing groups which the British group won.

I will have to go and see if I can find out what the outcome was for the British legionnaires as technically they would have been traitors at that point. but maybe my memory is false and they all left the Vichy forces before the battles.

Oh, yes nowadays the French do give citizenship to Legionnaires after 3 or 5 years service. But it did not use to be the case. Nowadays they only take good guys. Boring.

[manarak]

Don't know about Dutch law, but I believe it is illegal in Western countries to engage in overseas armed conflict unless with the military of a recognised foreign State, so long as the foreign State is not at war with your home country.

Some Australians are fighting alongside Kurds against Daesh, a few killed. The legality is discussed at the URL below

http://www.cefa.org.au/ccf/australian-court-decide-if-it-crime-fight-kurds

They are not prosecuting, at least not yet, they are investigation. That may lead to a prosecution or not.

He joined a foreign fighting force, seems reason to me to investigate if that is allowed yes or no.

the level of control applied by governments on their citizens is becoming more and more worrying.

leftists have gone over the top with all sorts of PC bullshit to control more and more of the citizens' lives, even prosecuting their own citizens for things done in accordance with national interest - for example countries prosecuting their own companies/executives for bribing foreign decision makers, while the latter then just accept bribes from another company which nthen gets the contract... It becomes totally surreal.

all right, the guy is NOT YET being prosecuted but he was ARRESTED and had to give up his passport. For doing something the majority of people in the Netherlands would give him a medal for.

laws should to be applied when the result is a benefit for citizens.

when no citizens benefit from applying a law in a case, then don't apply it.

where is Dutch citizens' interest in prosecuting that soldier?

Edited January 16, 2016 by manarak

[bendejo]

Stoopid white people's rules. So is The Hague going to start rounding up Isis and Al Qaeda members and give them the same treatment?

Reminds me of the scene in the first Die Hard movie where the terrorist says "ha-ha, you can't shoot me, you are policeman, and policeman have to follow rules."

(and we know what happens afterwards)

[stevenl]

Don't know about Dutch law, but I believe it is illegal in Western countries to engage in overseas armed conflict unless with the military of a recognised foreign State, so long as the foreign State is not at war with your home country.

Some Australians are fighting alongside Kurds against Daesh, a few killed. The legality is discussed at the URL below

http://www.cefa.org.au/ccf/australian-court-decide-if-it-crime-fight-kurds

They are not prosecuting, at least not yet, they are investigation. That may lead to a prosecution or not.

He joined a foreign fighting force, seems reason to me to investigate if that is allowed yes or no.

the level of control applied by governments on their citizens is becoming more and more worrying.

leftists have gone over the top with all sorts of PC bullshit to control more and more of the citizens' lives, even prosecuting their own citizens for things done in accordance with national interest - for example countries prosecuting their own companies/executives for bribing foreign decision makers, while the latter then just accept bribes from another company which nthen gets the contract... It becomes totally surreal.

all right, the guy is NOT YET being prosecuted but he was ARRESTED and had to give up his passport. For doing something the majority of people in the Netherlands would give him a medal for.

laws should to be applied when the result is a benefit for citizens.

when no citizens benefit from applying a law in a case, then don't apply it.

where is Dutch citizens' interest in prosecuting that soldier?

So a judge should only apply laws if they are in the interest of the country and citizens.

[dutchisaan]

Is the Netherlands sponsoring ISIL?

The Dutch government sounds like Socialist not wanting you to participate in any war not their's.You will notice even though they are buying war planes and arms that they are not assisting the UK,or The US in fighting the isis in The Mid East....

You have to do some more research before you post.

The Dutch Royal Airforce is bomming isis for months now.

So please stop posting nonsence.