Is there proper planning before a new building is built?

[Howitzer]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886957-the-abandoned-condo-building-at-bali-hai-pier-on-google/?p=10320858

From this thread i was just curious about the excuses given about why this particular building a residential condo wasn't completed.

One of the reasons was it blocked off the view of an important religious icon.

The problem is the building is almost finished. It's more than 20 stories high and the point is you should have figured it out before you even laid the foundation to build the building.

I am actually beginning to notice the difference between abandoned buildings in thailand vs abandoned buildings in the west.

Buildings are abandoned in the west due to lack of funds to upkeep them.

Buildings are abandoned in thailand due to poor planning and the buildings were never even completed.

Like the building in sathorn bkk for example. Nobody ever even lived there at all. It was built half way and just abandoned. At least in the west people build the buildings and live in them before abanonding them.

So there's this condo/residential building at pattaya's pier that had it's construction stopped cos so some silly reasons that were not addressed before it was even built.

It's just unbelievable. Do thais just think in a totally different fashion?

[Ricardo]

Some part-completed buildings in Thailand are a consequence of the 1997-crash, the banks who repossessed them don't wish to sell & acknowledge a book-loss, so the buildings can remain unsold & uncompleted two decades later.

Planning & building-control permits can often be obtained with payment of an extra informal administrative-fee, although currently this is less prevalent, as nobody wants to be caught bending the rules under the new regime. This too will pass, in time.

[trogers]

The West follows the teachings of Christ about counting costs.

Buddha didn't teach this topic.

Edited January 18, 2016 by trogers

[WorkingTourist]

It's just unbelievable. Do thais just think in a totally different fashion?

Thais with a higher education are just as capable as educated westerners. My own experience with buying off-plan has been extremely positive, one example of proper planning was the company installing my sound system, they told the developer that the depth of the amplifiers (to be placed under the TVs) were 40 cm, which is the same depth as the TV furniture, so the developer cut out a piece of the wall behind the furniture (so that the amplifier won’t stick out).

I have several examples from The West where subcontractors were unable to work together like this, resulting in suboptimal solutions, and I have also been following two foreign run real estate companies in Pattaya (for entertainment value) which seems to run into all the typical problems that people warn about on ThaiVisa (multi-year delays, subpar constructions, etc. — and the westerners here seems to be to blame).

The “problem” with Thailand is manyfold, some of the factors:

• Regulation seems less strict with less oversight, so barrier to entry is lower, which generally means more failures.
• People are poor. This means people will pay less and, as they say, you get what you pay for. Paying 1-2m baht for a new condo and expecting the builder to use materials and staff that is comparable to the West is naive at best.

Lastly let me just add that questioning the abilities of an entire nation comes off as racist, so in the future, you may consider better wording.

[questionsreplies]

Sure that thanks to you genius things will be better soon ♡♥♡

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I know an investor who bought a condo at Sathorn Unique.

The buyers in that building were offered a full buyout meaning all their deposits were to be returned. A few accepted the offer, but the majority decided to forfeit their deposits because this unfinished building is in top location and people are hoping for this building to be eventually finished or bought out.

This is the absolutely crazy part about Thai real estate investment. Not only are people buying condos with the intention of never living in them. They are also refusing to sell abandoned buildings without any hope of ever being completed.

[trogers]

I know an investor who bought a condo at Sathorn Unique.

The buyers in that building were offered a full buyout meaning all their deposits were to be returned. A few accepted the offer, but the majority decided to forfeit their deposits because this unfinished building is in top location and people are hoping for this building to be eventually finished or bought out.

This is the absolutely crazy part about Thai real estate investment. Not only are people buying condos with the intention of never living in them. They are also refusing to sell abandoned buildings without any hope of ever being completed.

For info, Sathorn Unique is that 'haunted' uncompleted tower at the end of Sathorn road, at Bangruk district.

[Srikcir]

Another problem in Thailand for any building that has been "properly" planned to be built has the potential for mistakes.

Case in Point:

The 24-story luxury Aetus Hotel and Service Apartments on 51/53 Soi Ruamrudee in Bangkok had been built and occupied with approval from the then Bangkok governor and district chief. But the Supreme Admininstraive Court subsequently ruled in response to a complaint that construction was against city laws.

The laws says that a building over 8 stories or taller than 23 meters cannot be built on a soi with its surface width less than 10 meters. But Soi Ruamrudee is less than 10 metres wide throughout its distance. Road measurement of eight different points of the soi showed the width of the soi surface at 9.146, 9.207, 9.434, 9.150, 9.658 and 9.283 metres respectively. The court required the hotel to be demolished down to eight stories or wholly removed within 60 days.

But the owners may have stalled demolistion by filing a lawsuit against the city for compensation. The owner claimed that the former officials incorrectly allowed construction based on "old information in a land database that showed the soi was at least 10 metres wide throughout but failed to measure the width of the soi before granting the approval" To date the facility continues to operate.

Other cases in point are numerous resorts and residences built on federally-owned National Park lands based on building permits issued by district officials. In 2014 a detailed government review of a number of those permits found construction was illegal and buildings demolished.

[asdecas]

Planning? In Thailand? Oh haha aha ha!

Drive-by shooters on motorcycle pillions don't even have the wits to cover the registration plate when committing murder.

[puukao]

They plan to take your money...

[bazza40]

My understanding is an administrative fee will smooth the path, and if it is not forthcoming, a technicality will be found which can hold up the process for months or years. Just another reason to rent in Thailand.

The problem with abandoned buildings is rain will wick down the steel in the reinforced concrete pillars and cause spalling, so unless a roof is installed at the time of construction the building would be unfit for occupancy. The abandoned buildings should actually be bulldozed; however, that costs more money and is crystallizing the loss on a banks' accounts.

I've observed a five-storey building in the Huay Kaow Road area of Chiang Mai constructed from the ground up. The only foundation I saw was about 1 metre of concrete at the base, no piling. Don't know if that was part of the planning process; however, wouldn't like to be in that building in an earthquake.

Edited January 19, 2016 by bazza40

[silent]

Another problem in Thailand for any building that has been "properly" planned to be built has the potential for mistakes.

Case in Point:

The 24-story luxury Aetus Hotel and Service Apartments on 51/53 Soi Ruamrudee in Bangkok had been built and occupied with approval from the then Bangkok governor and district chief. But the Supreme Admininstraive Court subsequently ruled in response to a complaint that construction was against city laws.

The laws says that a building over 8 stories or taller than 23 meters cannot be built on a soi with its surface width less than 10 meters. But Soi Ruamrudee is less than 10 metres wide throughout its distance. Road measurement of eight different points of the soi showed the width of the soi surface at 9.146, 9.207, 9.434, 9.150, 9.658 and 9.283 metres respectively. The court required the hotel to be demolished down to eight stories or wholly removed within 60 days.

But the owners may have stalled demolistion by filing a lawsuit against the city for compensation. The owner claimed that the former officials incorrectly allowed construction based on "old information in a land database that showed the soi was at least 10 metres wide throughout but failed to measure the width of the soi before granting the approval" To date the facility continues to operate.

Other cases in point are numerous resorts and residences built on federally-owned National Park lands based on building permits issued by district officials. In 2014 a detailed government review of a number of those permits found construction was illegal and buildings demolished.

Maybe if they have enough problems with things like that someone might come up with something in law like "legal non-conforming". It just sounds a little more professional than the simple rule of Thainess.

[elgordo38]

Sure that thanks to you genius things will be better soon ♡♥♡

He is just putting his money where his mouth is. Its a habit all rich people have. They keep forgetting that not all people are on their level. They develop a dismissal attitude towards the rest of us poor struggling serfs. Yes there is a mental class system in the world. We are nothing to them but the unwashed masses. Read Leona Helmsley's quote sometime.

[elgordo38]

I know an investor who bought a condo at Sathorn Unique.

The buyers in that building were offered a full buyout meaning all their deposits were to be returned. A few accepted the offer, but the majority decided to forfeit their deposits because this unfinished building is in top location and people are hoping for this building to be eventually finished or bought out.

This is the absolutely crazy part about Thai real estate investment. Not only are people buying condos with the intention of never living in them. They are also refusing to sell abandoned buildings without any hope of ever being completed.

Yes I noticed that to. The condo building across the way has very few lights on at night. My unit sat empty for years before my Chinese landlord decided to at least get his condo fees paid. Personally I would sooner buy a unit in an older building that has been tested by time and better built. At least my elevator stops at every floor and I have a balcony door and a pool. The new condo across the road the elevator stops at every other floor and you must climb out the window to access the balcony. Weird but cost cutting measures which are common here.

[chilli42]

Of course there is no detailed planning, much is done based on hope for the best. New buildings are required to obtain government approvals for the plans. You might be tempted to sneer at the willingness of officials to enforce when offers incentives but I can tell you they are very careful since the Santika fire. That said, there is no environmental dillegnce or even consideration in the approval (other than green space) - only the immediate building site is co spidered in the approval. So the issue you mention could easily come up unexpectedly. Alternativley you are being given a run around to hide the real reason - such as the contractor being out of money, project cost over runs, building code irregularities etc etc. You can be sure that if building has stopped the problem is significant and you need to consider the safety of your deposit payments.

[Rimbuman]

Planning?.....yes..... always.

Proper?......you'll have to be lucky.......and even if you are lucky it will never come close to the standards you are used to in the west.

[Pilotman]

Don't get this out of proportion. The idiot builders in the UK are still building Barrett boxes on the flood plane and the strick planning laws in the uK are helping them. So the poor smucks that buy them get flooded every 5 years and can't get insurance. It's not all negative in Thai, believe me.

[bazza40]

You get what you pay for. The house I provided funding for outside Chiang Rai is built to Thai standards, 2 bedroom, 600,000 baht. All the fixtures and fittings are basic; however, they do the job.

My friend has a house outside Chiang Mai, built to his exacting standards and it's as good if not better than any house in Australia. 3.2 million baht build cost. Top quality fixtures and fittings. Burmese teak doors, granite kitchen benchtops, 3 bedroom with each bedroom having an ensuite.

Both were approved by the relevant planning authority.