Los Ranked Number 3 For Murders

[cclub75]

To follow up :

Thailand didn't answer to the 8 and 9th study (covering 2001/2002 and 2003/2004).

Strange, isn't it ?

Must be an effect of our Ex Great Leader's policies (remember what he said about UN and UN's reports on human rights ?).

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/crime_cicp_survey_eighth.html

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/crime_survey_ninth.html

[cclub75]

Statistics aside, most would probably agree they feel relatively safe here,

Indeed. But if you look at the stats, it's easy to understand the "gap" of perception.

Europe for instance = high rate of thefts, auto thefts, robberies, etc. What makes criminality "visible" to most of the people. But very low rate of murders.

For Thailand, it's the contrary.

So we could say : Thailand is much safer for minor/medium offenses/crimes. But extremely deadly for... ultra violence aka murders..

In western countries, where you could have a situation of physical violence for a robbery for instance, in Thailand it would be .... a murder.

[Tolley]

Sorry, but it is not a state of denial that leads me to feel that Thailand is as safe or safer for the average farang than, say, the US. I don't need to ask my girlfriend or wife about that because I speak and read the language and talk to Thais every day. It always helps to gather your impressions unfiltered by another party. Perhaps that is part of the problem here?

A very large portion of the figures for gun violence are due to the settling of disputes that in other countries would be settled by in small claims courts and the like. Another great share are domestic disputes, family members killing family members. And so on. Most farangs will never get mixed up in those kinds of disputes/events, especially if they somehow manage to avoid marrying someone with a background in the hospitality industry.

With the possible exception of Pataya, which is about as Thai as Torremolinos is Spain, your chances of getting mugged or in a fracas here are vanishingly small. I am shocked, truly shocked, at the sheer number of big girl's blouses on this forum. I imagine that the only place they dare express themselves is on the forum (pretty safe, no?), which would account for the fact that I have never in the long time I have spent here met such scaredy cats in person. Please, do us all a favor and either go home, or stay home!

One more thing. Thailand has had a high murder rate for a long, long time. When I first arrived in 1980 the papers were chock full of murder stories, just like today. If you people are concerned about this it tells me that you were not paying attention when you moved here, and are only suddenly discovering this fact. Sorry that your bubble was burst, but please stop telling everyone that the sky is falling.

P.S. Survived my visits to Lat Prao and Yawaraj, praise the Lord. I just don't know how much longer I can go on dodging these bullets!

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Then in your last paragraph you actually agree with the OP stating that THailand has always had a high murder rate?

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

[Thaddeus]

It's a bit of a crazy country though, isn't it?

The fact that most "transgressions" will not happen to a farang is not the point.

That depends on if you are a farang or not.

There have been a few unsavoury incidents close to me recently in the last month, at least three ended in fatalities.

Young Thai lads fighting over the affections of a girl (I don't think it was the same girl in all cases, but you never know).... as I never frequent the place that these 'accidents' happened, do I look worried?

If some young Thai bucks decide to have a bit of a scrap after a few bottles of Lao Khao, that isn't my problem (it's not quite the same as litter).... I know my limits, I know when to get involved and when to stay well away.

Thailand is as safe or as dangerous as you want it to be.... and in that respect, it's just like any other country.

[Donz]

Im sure these stats are not even accurate.

[astral]

No original thought here by the OP.

Just churning out others drivel.

I am surprised the USA has so few murders, given the size of the population.

[sting01]

Well as usual, 2 voices have raised :

in one hand, those who are more thai than thai people themself, and claim whatever happend Thailand is the Land of smile, populated by angels, and we are blessed (choosed ones) to stay here. IF shit happend, then we have to be the guilties. Well, the last taxy man I hired from Lotus ratchadato take me home first tried to go opposite way (mean direction Asoke , not direction Inthamara, I was lucky enought he had to cross ratchadaphisek, have to stop, so I was able to explain him my directio), then when arrive in my condo, the bill was 41 bht, I handed him 100, he gave me back 50 ... something missing is not it? Suposing he did not have exchange (possible) I given him 1 (one) baht and asked for the 10 bht missing ... Should I precise he went out of his taxy with long knife? should I precise the 2 guards stopped the story here, but still I got anexperience that I never got in my own country. Got that problem 3 times in 5 years, alwaysthe same kind of problem, related to exchange that the native refuse to give. 3 times in 5 years if have finished in near violence (the 2 other tiems I finally decided it was time to test my skills in running). 3 times in 5 years ... well I do not feel unsecure in Bkk, at the opposite, I find for a third world city in a third world country it's pretty safe (compared with abdjan, or Bangui).

On the other hand , there is those who always are ready to show how bad is Thaialnd. Corruption, political problems, social probles, acoholism, prostitution ... All is good to show how bad. Well, in 5 years I have met in Bangkok more nice people, more decent women, more people trying to follow moral or religion that I have eveer met in my country (same amount of population).

Just, well why not be buddhist a bit, the middle way have to be adopted. Thailand have a culture, that is not only papaya pokpok, turning in circle while moving hands like windmill, and wear yellow shirts; Thaialnd have also a culture related to face (called honor in some islands that sre french or italian). Like in those islands, if you touch someone lese honor(face), you have to pay the price. Exemple : you go to an house to see the daugher, there you meet her brother. Dark skin, dark hair, and dark (very dark) eyes. looking at you, while using a long knife to clean some nails, he ask you " Do you like my sister?" You are surprise, and voiceless. Then he look at you in the eyes, with a cold sight that make you frighting, and ask again : Do you like my sister? At thsi time you understand well that you life is in balance. You crosed the border while trying to woo the young cute exotic lady. So , you simply answer : no, I don't, I am an english teacher!!!!!!. Hearing that, the guy turn banana starting to scream : he does not like my sister, she is not good enought for him... I will kill him, he have insult my sister and my whole familly because he does not like my siser. Culture.

[TokyoT]

Statistics aside, most would probably agree they feel relatively safe here,

Indeed. But if you look at the stats, it's easy to understand the "gap" of perception.

Europe for instance = high rate of thefts, auto thefts, robberies, etc. What makes criminality "visible" to most of the people. But very low rate of murders.

For Thailand, it's the contrary.

So we could say : Thailand is much safer for minor/medium offenses/crimes. But extremely deadly for... ultra violence aka murders..

In western countries, where you could have a situation of physical violence for a robbery for instance, in Thailand it would be .... a murder.

IMHO the reason that it appears to the contrary in Thailand is that many minor/medium offenses go unreported. I would not be surprised in the least that if somehow truly accurate numbers were able to be compiled that Thailand would have higher rates in all categories.

Keep in mind as well that due to the well oiled corrupt system that operates here in Thailand that many “crimes” are resolved with financial settlements between parties and are never reported/recorded.

With that being said as a Farang I do feel relatively safe here. Not really any more so than I do in the west, and honestly probably a little (not a lot) less safe. In general terms if you keep to the ‘right” areas of town, don’t go sticking your nose in were it does not belong, and keep your eyes open for developing situations, one is pretty safe in most countries of the world. I think that quite a lot of crime is the result of not reading the signals.

[Casanundra]

I read on the BBC news website yesterday that a television documentary series is looking for people to complete a Poll about 'how safe you feel in the UK' because it is recognised that certain areas of the UK are definitely hazardous to your health these days and they want to know how far wide this has now become across the whole of the UK. From my recollection of living in the UK, most city centres on a Saturday night after a football match or binge drinking session is not the place to be out and about these days.

When I used to live in the UK I never went into the city after 8pm because I just never felt safe and you was always guaranteed to see a fight at some point in the night. On the other hand in the two years I have spent in Bangkok I have not seen anything myself (I hear the stories) but I have yet to see it and I do feel a lot safer here in Bangkok even at 3am than I would back home in the UK.

The key thing I guess is to just keep your eyes and ears open, be prepared to walk away at the first sign of trouble and steer clear of people you wouldn't necessarily associate with back home and you are going to have a nice and happy existence here in Thailand.

[LomSak27]

I don’t know what it is about the Land of Smiles that makes guys, and it is almost always the male of the species, become so all dang torque d up to defend the indefensible. An OP is posted on violent crime in Thailand and you just know there will be some guy questioning why your spreading bad news about Thailand. Mention a specific incident and you get the immediate “Prove that it happened” or “You brought it on yourself”. Of course, when all arguments fail these guys resort to my favorite, the classic all American ‘Love it or leave it’ snarl – for other nationalities this is the tepid “if you don’t like it go home” whinge.

Almost always male and (oddly) never Thai – I’ve thought it some yet undefined reaction induced by nom plaa on the farang diet yet friends claim a lot of these types have never used nom plaa, …. They don’t put that on their big macs, meat pies or schnitzel. Say do you suppose it’s an infection caught on bar stools ?– a SARS-BARS virus that gets into the blood stream and addles their brain?

And then there is the third force (explanation) .... the cunning gonads on the prowl. Once engaged these babies reduce the reasoning power of the farang male to something akin of a bull elk in rut.

ahh well always mysteries

[stumonster]

Good OP - Thanks for sharing the article.

My opinion is crime is on the rise here in Thailand and we will see more of it with foriegners as victims - I think our main protection is being a foriegner , but that is slowly decreasing - Familiarity does breed contempt.

In general terms if you keep to the ‘right” areas of town, don’t go sticking your nose in were it does not belong, and keep your eyes open for developing situations, one is pretty safe in most countries of the world. I think that quite a lot of crime is the result of not reading the signals.

as always common sense will prevail most of the time.

[cclub75]

Keep in mind as well that due to the well oiled corrupt system that operates here in Thailand that many “crimes” are resolved with financial settlements between parties and are never reported/recorded.

You surely got a point there : that's the bias with the police statistics.

However, I continue to think that we have less "small/visible" violences in Thailand, therefore the "climate" seems safer.

I too feel much safer in BKK, compare with some areas of Paris for instance. But I agree, it's more like a feeling, than probably a statistic reality.

Edited October 19, 2006 by cclub75

[Donz]

I don’t know what it is about the Land of Smiles that makes guys, and it is almost always the male of the species, become so all dang torque d up to defend the indefensible. An OP is posted on violent crime in Thailand and you just know there will be some guy questioning why your spreading bad news about Thailand. Mention a specific incident and you get the immediate “Prove that it happened” or “You brought it on yourself”. Of course, when all arguments fail these guys resort to my favorite, the classic all American ‘Love it or leave it’ snarl – for other nationalities this is the tepid “if you don’t like it go home” whinge.

Almost always male and (oddly) never Thai – I’ve thought it some yet undefined reaction induced by nom plaa on the farang diet yet friends claim a lot of these types have never used nom plaa, …. They don’t put that on their big macs, meat pies or schnitzel. Say do you suppose it’s an infection caught on bar stools ?– a SARS-BARS virus that gets into the blood stream and addles their brain?

And then there is the third force (explanation) .... the cunning gonads on the prowl. Once engaged these babies reduce the reasoning power of the farang male to something akin of a bull elk in rut.

ahh well always mysteries

Its goes both ways, any good news on Thailand you get mostly "it must be wrong" or 'who did they pay", many people on here also just post negative stuff on here and put down Thai girls, thai culture in 90% of there posts. We get some days where topics are just about Thais are stupid, Thais think like kids, Thais are all racist etc.

Its on both sides my friend.

[michael804]

I don’t know what it is about the Land of Smiles that makes guys, and it is almost always the male of the species, become so all dang torque d up to defend the indefensible. An OP is posted on violent crime in Thailand and you just know there will be some guy questioning why your spreading bad news about Thailand. Mention a specific incident and you get the immediate “Prove that it happened” or “You brought it on yourself”. Of course, when all arguments fail these guys resort to my favorite, the classic all American ‘Love it or leave it’ snarl – for other nationalities this is the tepid “if you don’t like it go home” whinge.

Almost always male and (oddly) never Thai – I’ve thought it some yet undefined reaction induced by nom plaa on the farang diet yet friends claim a lot of these types have never used nom plaa, …. They don’t put that on their big macs, meat pies or schnitzel. Say do you suppose it’s an infection caught on bar stools ?– a SARS-BARS virus that gets into the blood stream and addles their brain?

And then there is the third force (explanation) .... the cunning gonads on the prowl. Once engaged these babies reduce the reasoning power of the farang male to something akin of a bull elk in rut.

ahh well always mysteries

Yep

that's my take on it also.

Bizarre indeed...

Thankfully, most others respect reasonable, social, conversation/interaction.

[LomSak27]

"Its on both sides my friend."

I'm sure it is I just don't read many TVisa postings thats all. Sting01 above laid it out pretty well

[qualtrough]

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

Yes. It is pretty much a no brainer that someone who can speak and read the native language and therefore interact with the populace, read their papers and periodicals, and listen to and understand their radio and television programs might have a bit better understanding of any given situation than those who need to 'ask their girlfriend or wife' to find out what's going on.

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Yeah, I think they are scaredy cats and here's why. Thailand has had a high rate of violent crime for a long, long time. It flabbergasts me that many of you are discovering this for the first time, but that must be the case as we periodically have these threads about how dangerous Thailand is, or is becoming. If you are scared now you should have paid more attention before coming here. I suggest the moderator pin a post with the info on the crime rate so any ninnies considering living here can avoid that mistake. I also suggest that the moderator create a new subforum titled 'I Live in Thailand and I am Scared' where the scaredy cats can discuss things like safe indoor activities, how to avoid contact with Thai people, hiding under the bed techniques, etc. & etc.

[accidently snipped something here about agreeing with the OP, but I don't see the conflict there. I agree that there is a lot of violent crime, I just disagree with your obsession with it and your conclusions. I also think some of you are in denial about how safe you are in your own countries, particularly those, like me, from the USA.]

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

Yes I do, thanks for asking.

Edited October 19, 2006 by qualtrough

[stiggy]

I don't threaten people. I live dangerously, frequent persons of nighttime employment

You hang out at Seven Eleven then, be careful .

Sorry couldnt help it.

[dacah]

In Ireland we call it "cop on"....take yourself in check and cop on

Something like reading a situation and moving on

This has worked for me all over the world ...Thailand included..and so far I have been very lucky and never had a physical problem.

However...remember SHIT HAPPENS

[chingching]

well according to this site thailand is #14

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...per-capita#restmurder rate

[Donz]

well according to this site thailand is #14

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...per-capita#restmurder rate

Hey people wont like that.

[Tolley]

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

Yes. It is pretty much a no brainer that someone who can speak and read the native language and therefore interact with the populace, read their papers and periodicals, and listen to and understand their radio and television programs might have a bit better understanding of any given situation than those who need to 'ask their girlfriend or wife' to find out what's going on.

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Yeah, I think they are scaredy cats and here's why. Thailand has had a high rate of violent crime for a long, long time. It flabbergasts me that many of you are discovering this for the first time, but that must be the case as we periodically have these threads about how dangerous Thailand is, or is becoming. If you are scared now you should have paid more attention before coming here. I suggest the moderator pin a post with the info on the crime rate so any ninnies considering living here can avoid that mistake. I also suggest that the moderator create a new subforum titled 'I Live in Thailand and I am Scared' where the scaredy cats can discuss things like safe indoor activities, how to avoid contact with Thai people, hiding under the bed techniques, etc. & etc.

[accidently snipped something here about agreeing with the OP, but I don't see the conflict there. I agree that there is a lot of violent crime, I just disagree with your obsession with it and your conclusions. I also think some of you are in denial about how safe you are in your own countries, particularly those, like me, from the USA.]

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

Yes I do, thanks for asking.

It may come as a shock to you but you are not the only farang who is fluent in Thai. By your rationale someone who has been in Thailand longer than you or who speaks better Thai than you would therefore more likely to be more correct than yourself.

Ones ability in the language has nothing to do with the facts. They stand alone. The facts are that thailand is dangerous and most statisitics bear this out. There is a high murder rate and high rate of violent crime.

Mentioning this doesn't make anyone a scaredy cat what it makes them is informed.

[meemiathai]

I have visited Paris once only in my life and was a tourist there for 2 days only. I was walking back to the hotel with 2 bags of supermkt stuff in my hands, with my wife, she in front, in quite a crowded street at around 6pm, and was suddenly tripped by a black guy standing aside the pavement and nearly fell. I looked backwards trying to see what had happened and this guy looked at me and intimidated me for absolutely no reason. I had to keep going coz I'm not sure how many people could be with him.(I was thinking of going back in a few minutes and go up to him without him noticing and throwing a few punches and beat him to the ground and run, but I was worried about my wife if anything happens to me, so I swallowed it)

I have visited London 3 times and been out to the night clubs downtown, and noticed quite a few dodgy people. Fairly speaking, I wouldn't say it is extremely dangerous, but it definitely doesn't feel really really safe. I remember once when I was in a nightclub, I saw a rather skiny guy(as a farang) talking to my sister, I went up and my sister starts introducing me. And this guy was like a mouse seeing a cat. He disappeared within 5 seconds! And my sister was only saying 'this is my brother'. Imagine if she would've said that I was her bf! I think this more or less shows what the situation is like in those London clubs.

Now I have been visiting Thailand 1,2 or 3 times a year for the past 7 years. Everytime, I go out wandering at night, Pataya and BKK. I go to discos where only thais frequent on my own. I have hardly ever, ever felt threatened or unsafe! Hardly ever met a thai who was antagonistic towards me. I have never seen any fightings(apart from the one I saw in Isaan), never seen anyone being beaten up. I am actually quite amazed that those hooliganly misbehaving farangs don't get kicked on their <deleted> more often. Imagine a group of thais or chinese behaving the same in London like farang tourists do in Thailand. What will happen?????????

I know I don't live here and I understand that it will make me free of a lot of problems that would come across a farang who is actually living here. But I must honestly point out that of all the time I was in Thailand, it was always the farangs making a lot of fuss about trivia things and being the trouble-makers I have noticed. Actually quite the same in HK.

I am not disagreeing though that one could get treated unfairly in Thailand.

I see/hear farangs here complaining all the time about the Thais as Donz has pointed out. Why don't you yourselves try to observe a bit more at your own people how they treat the Thais themselves.

You guys even complain about uneven pavements! How difficult is it to walk on them??????????

Sorry, a bit off topic.

[meemiathai]

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

Yes. It is pretty much a no brainer that someone who can speak and read the native language and therefore interact with the populace, read their papers and periodicals, and listen to and understand their radio and television programs might have a bit better understanding of any given situation than those who need to 'ask their girlfriend or wife' to find out what's going on.

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Yeah, I think they are scaredy cats and here's why. Thailand has had a high rate of violent crime for a long, long time. It flabbergasts me that many of you are discovering this for the first time, but that must be the case as we periodically have these threads about how dangerous Thailand is, or is becoming. If you are scared now you should have paid more attention before coming here. I suggest the moderator pin a post with the info on the crime rate so any ninnies considering living here can avoid that mistake. I also suggest that the moderator create a new subforum titled 'I Live in Thailand and I am Scared' where the scaredy cats can discuss things like safe indoor activities, how to avoid contact with Thai people, hiding under the bed techniques, etc. & etc.

[accidently snipped something here about agreeing with the OP, but I don't see the conflict there. I agree that there is a lot of violent crime, I just disagree with your obsession with it and your conclusions. I also think some of you are in denial about how safe you are in your own countries, particularly those, like me, from the USA.]

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

Yes I do, thanks for asking.

It may come as a shock to you but you are not the only farang who is fluent in Thai. By your rationale someone who has been in Thailand longer than you or who speaks better Thai than you would therefore more likely to be more correct than yourself.

Ones ability in the language has nothing to do with the facts. They stand alone. The facts are that thailand is dangerous and most statisitics bear this out. There is a high murder rate and high rate of violent crime.

Mentioning this doesn't make anyone a scaredy cat what it makes them is informed.

I would've thought you have explained it clearly enough, qualtrough. But it seems not.

[meemiathai]

well according to this site thailand is #14

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...per-capita#restmurder rate

Hey people wont like that.

Yes, if you can find one which states thailand is #30, I bet a lot of farangs would even jump off their balconies!

It feels really bad, doesn't it? to find anything good about Thailand.

[sibeymai]

#3 ranking is a good effort, but to be considered the "hub of murder by firearms" they'll have to get the numbers up a bit more to make the #1 position.

A few actions which will help:

1. bring Thaksin back and get a mob of Forstry Dept marshalls to escort him to a PAD meeting

2. change the drinking age to 25 then decalre a war on underage drinking

3. enforce the Alien Business Act to the letter of the law and confiscate the assets of any companies using nominees (should be good for a few suicides)

4. give legal status to mia nois as lawful defacto wives (women can use guns too)

5. reimburse police for the cost of ammunition they use

6. continue present policies regarding the south of Thailand

edit- sorry, forgot an obvious one....hire a certain Isaan former prime minister's sons to go out partying in Bangkok every night....this'll be sure to make a contribution !

Just trying to be helpful...we need as many hubs as we can get !!!

Edited October 20, 2006 by sibeymai

[lomatopo]

I am pretty sure that the figure of 20,032 for murders by firearm, 1998-2000, quoted in the original article is incorrect. I've seen this figure before, and it just doesn't agree with the figure for total murders, 5,140, for the same period, from the same study.

[qualtrough]

I would've thought you have explained it clearly enough, qualtrough. But it seems not.

Apparently not! Did you see anything in my posts that denied that Thailand had a high violent crime rate, coz I sure didn't. Wonder where Tolley gets that idea??

[qualtrough]

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

Yes. It is pretty much a no brainer that someone who can speak and read the native language and therefore interact with the populace, read their papers and periodicals, and listen to and understand their radio and television programs might have a bit better understanding of any given situation than those who need to 'ask their girlfriend or wife' to find out what's going on.

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Yeah, I think they are scaredy cats and here's why. Thailand has had a high rate of violent crime for a long, long time. It flabbergasts me that many of you are discovering this for the first time, but that must be the case as we periodically have these threads about how dangerous Thailand is, or is becoming. If you are scared now you should have paid more attention before coming here. I suggest the moderator pin a post with the info on the crime rate so any ninnies considering living here can avoid that mistake. I also suggest that the moderator create a new subforum titled 'I Live in Thailand and I am Scared' where the scaredy cats can discuss things like safe indoor activities, how to avoid contact with Thai people, hiding under the bed techniques, etc. & etc.

[accidently snipped something here about agreeing with the OP, but I don't see the conflict there. I agree that there is a lot of violent crime, I just disagree with your obsession with it and your conclusions. I also think some of you are in denial about how safe you are in your own countries, particularly those, like me, from the USA.]

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

Yes I do, thanks for asking.

It may come as a shock to you but you are not the only farang who is fluent in Thai. By your rationale someone who has been in Thailand longer than you or who speaks better Thai than you would therefore more likely to be more correct than yourself.

Ones ability in the language has nothing to do with the facts. They stand alone. The facts are that thailand is dangerous and most statisitics bear this out. There is a high murder rate and high rate of violent crime.

Mentioning this doesn't make anyone a scaredy cat what it makes them is informed.

If you reread my posts I don't think you will find anything in them that says that Thailand does not have a high rate of violent crime. The point I have tried and apparently failed to make is that the nature of this crime is somewhat different than that found back in our home countries, and thus the likelihood of farangs falling victim to it is probably much lower than statistics would indicate. Your chances of being mugged, being the victim of a drive by shooting, being the victim of a serial killer, being the victim of random violence, etc. are almost assuredly much, much less here than in the US. Thai violence is seldom random or visited upon strangers (particularly farangs)/ In fact hit men here seem to take great care in only shooting their targets. The vast majority of the deaths in those statistics you are so fond of (which are somewhat dodgy--but that is another issue) are due to political and/or business disputes, inter-familial issues, or late night drunken behavior. Most foreign visitors and residents here will not get tied up in those things, and they can certainly take steps to make sure they are not. Farangs are in far, far more danger of being injured or dying in a road accident than they are from violence here. Sure, good thing to know, but other than using common sense what are we supposed to do? Do we really need these Chicken Little threads one after the other? Why not just pin some crime statistics and be done with it? I guess I am in denial, or perhaps incredibly brave, but I am not at all afraid to live here, and feel safer than I would back home. Sure, bad things can happen to anyone, there is the luck of the draw, but I think you are trying to frighten people needlessly.

[lomatopo]

I am pretty sure that the figure of 20,032 for murders by firearm, 1998-2000, quoted in the original article is incorrect. I've seen this figure before, and it just doesn't agree with the figure for total murders, 5,140, for the same period, from the same study.

I suspect the murder by firearm total is probably more like 2,000 (out of a total of 5,140) murders, hence the whole basis for the article is pretty flawed. (The author suspects this himself when he questions where all these gun homicides are happening, and does the "30 a day" math, but lost all perpsective thinking he was hot on a sensational story. Most of the murders he mentions involve weapons other than guns.) I have to admit I almost used that 20,000 figure in an article a few months ago but felt that it was unjustifiable.

Given all that, and measured on a per capita basis (which is one way to "level the playing field"), the per capita murder rate in Thailand is still about double that of the U.S.A. from the referenced study.

#14 Thailand 0.0800798 per 1,000 people

#24 United States 0.042802 per 1,000 people

I have not been murdered in either Thailand or the U.S.A. so to me they are equally safe.

[meemiathai]

Amazing analysis of the situation.

You speak and read Thai therefore what exactly? You understand the situation better than anyone else!

Yes. It is pretty much a no brainer that someone who can speak and read the native language and therefore interact with the populace, read their papers and periodicals, and listen to and understand their radio and television programs might have a bit better understanding of any given situation than those who need to 'ask their girlfriend or wife' to find out what's going on.

People are scaredy cats for mentioning that Thailand has a large amount of violence? Sorry I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

Yeah, I think they are scaredy cats and here's why. Thailand has had a high rate of violent crime for a long, long time. It flabbergasts me that many of you are discovering this for the first time, but that must be the case as we periodically have these threads about how dangerous Thailand is, or is becoming. If you are scared now you should have paid more attention before coming here. I suggest the moderator pin a post with the info on the crime rate so any ninnies considering living here can avoid that mistake. I also suggest that the moderator create a new subforum titled 'I Live in Thailand and I am Scared' where the scaredy cats can discuss things like safe indoor activities, how to avoid contact with Thai people, hiding under the bed techniques, etc. & etc.

[accidently snipped something here about agreeing with the OP, but I don't see the conflict there. I agree that there is a lot of violent crime, I just disagree with your obsession with it and your conclusions. I also think some of you are in denial about how safe you are in your own countries, particularly those, like me, from the USA.]

Do you really know what you think or what you write?

Yes I do, thanks for asking.

It may come as a shock to you but you are not the only farang who is fluent in Thai. By your rationale someone who has been in Thailand longer than you or who speaks better Thai than you would therefore more likely to be more correct than yourself.

Ones ability in the language has nothing to do with the facts. They stand alone. The facts are that thailand is dangerous and most statisitics bear this out. There is a high murder rate and high rate of violent crime.

Mentioning this doesn't make anyone a scaredy cat what it makes them is informed.

If you reread my posts I don't think you will find anything in them that says that Thailand does not have a high rate of violent crime. The point I have tried and apparently failed to make is that the nature of this crime is somewhat different than that found back in our home countries, and thus the likelihood of farangs falling victim to it is probably much lower than statistics would indicate. Your chances of being mugged, being the victim of a drive by shooting, being the victim of a serial killer, being the victim of random violence, etc. are almost assuredly much, much less here than in the US. Thai violence is seldom random or visited upon strangers (particularly farangs)/ In fact hit men here seem to take great care in only shooting their targets. The vast majority of the deaths in those statistics you are so fond of (which are somewhat dodgy--but that is another issue) are due to political and/or business disputes, inter-familial issues, or late night drunken behavior. Most foreign visitors and residents here will not get tied up in those things, and they can certainly take steps to make sure they are not. Farangs are in far, far more danger of being injured or dying in a road accident than they are from violence here. Sure, good thing to know, but other than using common sense what are we supposed to do? Do we really need these Chicken Little threads one after the other? Why not just pin some crime statistics and be done with it? I guess I am in denial, or perhaps incredibly brave, but I am not at all afraid to live here, and feel safer than I would back home. Sure, bad things can happen to anyone, there is the luck of the draw, but I think you are trying to frighten people needlessly.

Arai wah? Mai kau jai!

Walking in the streets of San Paulo or NY certainly feels much safer than in BKK.