Question about the March 20th overstay ban

[mallet36]

Hi guys my question is if you leave Thailand after the deadline in March. Do you have to pay the 20,000 Baht overstay fine and get banned too or just get banned?

[Eclipse]

Both

[mallet36]

Where is the info that you need to do both can you post a link?

[stoneyboy]

Where is the info that you need to do both can you post a link?

It's been discussed tirelessly on here for the last few months.

[mallet36]

Getting banned has been discussed tirelessly for a long time yes but the fine too hasn't

[sunnyjim5]

Where is the info that you need to do both can you post a link?

It is not an either or choice !

Bans are now in addition to the mandated fine.

Search for the info if you disbelieve what you are being told.

[mallet36]

Thanks Jim that is all I asked and thanks for the easy reply. I get asked about the new rules and some answers i'm not sure about

[stoneyboy]

Getting banned has been discussed tirelessly for a long time yes but the fine too hasn't

Pop into your local friendly immigration office and have a chin wag,I'm sure they could accommodate your questions.

[elviajero]

Both a 20k fine and a ban. Unless you get arrested first in which case the court will decide the amount of fine up to a maximum of 20k.

[mallet36]

Will do stoneyboy keep u posted

[Evilbaz]

The cheapest way seems to be what you are asking?

Go to Immi, get banged up in the IDC, go to court (maybe get less than 20k), go back to IDC and cough up for airfare plus 5K for escorted service to the airport.

Best to do this in BKK to save being in the local nick and a paddy wagon trip to BKK IDC.

As reported here (not by me)!

[sunnyjim5]

Just asking a question Jackass, sorry Jacksam.And no I'm not brain dead. Thanks for your input it has answered my question

Don't worry about Jacksam OP, one of the many on here that makes reading TV a horrible experience sometimes

Immigration are stating that the ban will be applied to those arrested and PROSECUTED, this will mean going to court

As another poster said it will be up to the court to decide what the fine is, they may not impose the full 20k fine, the 20k fine is applicable at the airport under the old rules (before 20th March)

So all those attacking the OP for asking the question should maybe get their facts right first,

You are mistaken if you believe that a ban will only apply to those arrested and taken before a court.

A ban will also apply to those who "surrender" if their overstay amounts to 90+ days.

[beano2274]

What you have failed to say is that the fine from the court is given then worked off by being in Jail (if memory serves me right it is 300 Baht per day), so if you get fined 6000 Baht then it is 20 days in Jail. Then a ticket out of the country paid for by yourself and also the Police taxi fee to the

Airport and bye bye Thailand

[mallet36]

What you have failed to say is that the fine from the court is given then worked off by being in Jail (if memory serves me right it is 300 Baht per day), so if you get fined 6000 Baht then it is 20 days in Jail. Then a ticket out of the country paid for by yourself and also the Police taxi fee to the

Airport and bye bye Thailand

Well Beano the person who asked me the question has the money for his flight out but not really the 20.000 fine as said he is not bothered about the fine as he never wants to return. So you say he should go to Imm in BKK then? And do some time in jail for a month or so?

[darrendsd]

Just asking a question Jackass, sorry Jacksam.And no I'm not brain dead. Thanks for your input it has answered my question

Don't worry about Jacksam OP, one of the many on here that makes reading TV a horrible experience sometimes

Immigration are stating that the ban will be applied to those arrested and PROSECUTED, this will mean going to court

As another poster said it will be up to the court to decide what the fine is, they may not impose the full 20k fine, the 20k fine is applicable at the airport under the old rules (before 20th March)

So all those attacking the OP for asking the question should maybe get their facts right first,

You are mistaken if you believe that a ban will only apply to those arrested and taken before a court.

A ban will also apply to those who "surrender" if their overstay amounts to 90+ days.

I am aware of this

My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court

Posters here are saying it will be a ban and a 20k fine, the fine amount will actually be decided by the court and may or may not be 20k for those arrested

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport or border crossing for those surrendering

Has anybody seen official confirmation that there will also still be a fine if you are banned? I haven't seen anything but have not read all the posts on the Overstay ban thread

[sunnyjim5]

Just asking a question Jackass, sorry Jacksam.And no I'm not brain dead. Thanks for your input it has answered my question

Don't worry about Jacksam OP, one of the many on here that makes reading TV a horrible experience sometimes

Immigration are stating that the ban will be applied to those arrested and PROSECUTED, this will mean going to court

As another poster said it will be up to the court to decide what the fine is, they may not impose the full 20k fine, the 20k fine is applicable at the airport under the old rules (before 20th March)

So all those attacking the OP for asking the question should maybe get their facts right first,

You are mistaken if you believe that a ban will only apply to those arrested and taken before a court.

A ban will also apply to those who "surrender" if their overstay amounts to 90+ days.

I am aware of this

My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court

Posters here are saying it will be a ban and a 20k fine, the fine amount will actually be decided by the court and may or may not be 20k for those arrested

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport or border crossing for those surrendering

I think you had best provide some supporting evidence for your belief that a Ban can only be effected by prosecution and a court appearance.

[mallet36]

Just asking a question Jackass, sorry Jacksam.And no I'm not brain dead. Thanks for your input it has answered my question

Don't worry about Jacksam OP, one of the many on here that makes reading TV a horrible experience sometimes

Immigration are stating that the ban will be applied to those arrested and PROSECUTED, this will mean going to court

As another poster said it will be up to the court to decide what the fine is, they may not impose the full 20k fine, the 20k fine is applicable at the airport under the old rules (before 20th March)

So all those attacking the OP for asking the question should maybe get their facts right first,

You are mistaken if you believe that a ban will only apply to those arrested and taken before a court.

A ban will also apply to those who "surrender" if their overstay amounts to 90+ days.

I am aware of this

My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court

Posters here are saying it will be a ban and a 20k fine, the fine amount will actually be decided by the court and may or may not be 20k for those arrested

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport for those surrendering

Thanks Daz that is the question I asked and the answer I wanted to pass on. Cheers that makes more sense than some of the replies I have had tonight ( Jackass for one )

[jspill]

he is not bothered about the fine as he never wants to return. So you say he should go to Imm in BKK then? And do some time in jail for a month or so?

Some have been in and out of 'jail' (IDC) within the day, after the court appearance - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/774560-how-does-a-png-blacklist-stamp-look-like-blacklisted-or-not/

Or a few days at most, if you have the plane ticket paid for.

[darrendsd]

@Sunnyjim, please read the last sentence of my post

[Maestro]

Where is the info that you need to do both can you post a link?

It may seem funny how legislation works, but unless a section of a law, in this case Section 81 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) regarding a fine or prison or both for overstaying, is amended or abrogated, no document is published to say that this section remains in force unchanged. In other words, since there has been no information that Section 81 is being changed or abrogated, there can be no link of the kind you seek.

The overstay ban taking effect on 20 March 2016 has been published in the form of Ministerial Order 1/2558 under the authority of Section 16 of the Immigration Act and this section also remains unchanged.

Section 12, clause 10 of the Immigration Act states states persons prohibited by the Minister under Section 16 "are excluded from entering into the Kingdom"

For easy reference, I attach copies of the Ministerial Order 1/2558, which is in Thai, and of a summary in English, both of which have been published on the website of the Immigration Bureau. The Ministerial Order was originally published in the Government Gazette dated 21 December 2015.

Ministerial Order 1-2558 overstay ban - th.pdf

Immigration Bureau Announcement - overstay ban - en.pdf

[elviajero]

I am aware of this

My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court

Posters here are saying it will be a ban and a 20k fine, the fine amount will actually be decided by the court and may or may not be 20k for those arrested

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport for those surrendering

Thanks Daz that is the question I asked and the answer I wanted to pass on. Cheers that makes more sense than some of the replies I have had tonight ( Jackass for one )

Sorry but what darrendsd is saying is wrong. "My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court"

• ONLY those arrested and sent to court will need to be prosecuted for overstaying before immigration can apply the ban.
• If someone surrenders immigration already have the power to ban anyone overstaying more than 90 days. No court prosecution necessary.

[beano2274]

that details the Admission to the Country in the PDFs but does not state what the person might or might not have to do to leave Thailand.

If caught then Court and Jail with fine, if not caught and turns up at the Airport then fine, possible solution!

[mallet36]

I would like to hear from UDOMJOE on this subject

[thaibreaker]

If arrested and brought to IDC in Bangkok, the fine presented to you before a judge (the second or third day), is currently normally 3000 bath if you have a valid passport, or 6000 bath if your passport has expired or is missing. May vary from case to case, but if it`s not any special circumstances, this is the norm. Then your ticket must be provided by you.

The fine is reduced by 200 bath per day in jail, not 300.

Been there, done that.

When surrendering at the airport on the way home, it seems that the immigration officers will give the ban there, after you paying the 20k fine. No going to court.

So it will end up cheaper getting arrested, but the bans are much longer. But beware that the stay at IDC is extremely unpleasant, and should be avoided at all cost.

[Maestro]

that details the Admission to the Country in the PDFs but does not state what the person might or might not have to do to leave Thailand.

If caught then Court and Jail with fine, if not caught and turns up at the Airport then fine, possible solution!

You are right, Ministerial Order 1/2558 is not about foreigners who are currently in Thailand. It is about foreigners who, after having overstayed after 20 March 2016 on a visit to Thailand, subsequently arrive from abroad and seek admission to Thailand.

I have seen no law or rule saying what an overstayer currently in Thailand must or must not do to leave Thailand, only certain sections in the Immigration Act stating how an overstayer is dealt with.

Section 54 says that if a foreigner remains in Thailand after his permission to stay has expired, "the competent official will deport such alien out of the Kingdom"

Section 81 says that such foreigner "shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both"

[Maestro]

The big question is whether immigration officers at entry points must, without fail, refuse entry to every foreigner who meets one of the conditions listed in Ministerial Order 1/2558. Would an officer who fails to do so be derelict in his duties? Ask three lawyers calling themselves experts in immigration law and you will probably get five different answers.

All I have been able to figure out is that the opening line of Section 12 of the Immigration Act and Ministerial Order 1/2558 use identical Thai text (ห้ามมิให้เข้ามา, Paiboon pronunciation guide: hâam mí hâi kâo maa) for what in the Immigration Act has been translated as "excluded from entering" and in the Ministerial Order as "will be banned from re-entering". The Immigration Bureau knew exactly what they wanted when they submitted the draft for the Ministerial Order to the Minister of the Interior and were careful to avoid any ambiguity.

[ldiablo]

Hi guys my question is if you leave Thailand after the deadline in March. Do you have to pay the 20,000 Baht overstay fine and get banned too or just get banned?

My interpretation is.

If your overstay is under 90 days and you turn yourself in you will not be banned and just have to pay the fine. If you're caught and prosecuted you can expect to be banned.

My advice. Don't risk it.

[darrendsd]

I am aware of this

My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court

Posters here are saying it will be a ban and a 20k fine, the fine amount will actually be decided by the court and may or may not be 20k for those arrested

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport for those surrendering

Thanks Daz that is the question I asked and the answer I wanted to pass on. Cheers that makes more sense than some of the replies I have had tonight ( Jackass for one )

Sorry but what darrendsd is saying is wrong. "My point is that those who are either arrested or give themselves up will have to be prosecuted in order for the ban to take place, this will mean going to court"

• ONLY those arrested and sent to court will need to be prosecuted for overstaying before immigration can apply the ban.
• If someone surrenders immigration already have the power to ban anyone overstaying more than 90 days. No court prosecution necessary.

If you read one of the sentences in my post I did say the following

Unless the ban is automatically stamped at the Airport or border crossing for those surrendering

[ubonjoe]

I would like to hear from UDOMJOE on this subject

You still have to pay 20k baht overstay fine. Immigration has no authority to waive the fine.

If you were sent to IDC a judge can lower the fine from the max of 20k baht.

[bigt3116]

What you have failed to say is that the fine from the court is given then worked off by being in Jail (if memory serves me right it is 300 Baht per day), so if you get fined 6000 Baht then it is 20 days in Jail. Then a ticket out of the country paid for by yourself and also the Police taxi fee to the

Airport and bye bye Thailand

Well Beano the person who asked me the question has the money for his flight out but not really the 20.000 fine as said he is not bothered about the fine as he never wants to return. So you say he should go to Imm in BKK then? And do some time in jail for a month or so?

200 Baht a day

:-)