EU exit 'would slash migration to UK'

[webfact]

Leaving EU 'would cut migration by 100,000' - Migration Watch

LONDON: -- Net migration to the UK could fall by about 100,000 a year if Britain votes to leave the European Union, pressure group Migration Watch has estimated.

The group, which advocates tighter immigration controls, says in the event of a "Brexit", the government should introduce work permits for EU citizens.

Such a move would cut net migration - the difference between the number of people arriving and leaving - from 180,000 to 65,000 a year, it says.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35414310

-- BBC 2016-01-27

[JoePai]

Should be Visas and Work Permits for all foreigners, EU or otherwise

[trogers]

Another good reason to exit...?

[Gsxrnz]

The whole concept f the EU was flawed from the beginning.

Ted Heath was a criminal in more ways than one.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

UK has never been a member of the EU, always wanted special treatments, special tax deductions, and as always used its position to please the USA...good thing if the lapdog is going back to his master

[alocacoc]

Who cares. EU failed anyway.

[Richard W]

What Migration Watch is proposing would be of dubious legality unless the UK actually left the EEA.

Free movement of labour was part of the concept of the EEC when we joined.

[jesimps]

UK has never been a member of the EU, always wanted special treatments, special tax deductions, and as always used its position to please the USA...good thing if the lapdog is going back to his master

Praise the Lord we were never completely fooled by that huge socialist edifice. Now let's vote to get out and leave them to stew in their own juice.

[Ulic]

Just wondering, if there is a Brexit, would all the Polish/Czechs/Roma etc.... have to

leave and would all the UK nationals working on the continent have to return to the

UK until work permits/visas were worked out or would there be a grandfathering of

those in place. I don't see Mexicans/South/Central Americans leaving the US in a self

deportation manner, unless retiring/returning to there home countries permanently.

[Basil B]

Well the UK would not be appealing to Economic Migrants if it were going down the pan.

[MaeJoMTB]

The group 'Migration Watch' needs to understand the difference between EU agreements and EEA agreements.

Cos it's the EEA agreement that gives everyone the right to live and work.

Leaving the EU doesn't affect the EEA agreement.

[MaeJoMTB]

Just wondering, if there is a Brexit, would all the Polish/Czechs/Roma etc.... have to

leave and would all the UK nationals working on the continent have to return to the

UK until work permits/visas were worked out or would there be a grandfathering of

those in place. I don't see Mexicans/South/Central Americans leaving the US in a self

deportation manner, unless retiring/returning to there home countries permanently.

NO,

Because they are all working in Britain under an EEA agreement.

[sanukjim]

The whole concept f the EU was flawed from the beginning.

Ted Heath was a criminal in more ways than one.

At lest The Iron Lady kept the pound.

[7by7]

<snip>

Ted Heath was a criminal in more ways than one.

Although Heath originally took the UK into what was then the EEC, on coming to power Wilson then renegotiated the UK's terms of membership and put it to a referendum.

The British people then overwhelmingly voted to remain in.

Whether we were conned or not depends upon your viewpoint.

[7by7]

Migration Watch is a right wing, anti immigration pressure group; so one has to take anything that they say with a pinch of salt!

The EU and EEA are two different entities. All EU member states are also members of the EEA; but not all EEA member states are also members of the EU.

The freedom of movement rights arise from EEA treaties and membership, nothing to do with the EU.

So, as already said above by MaeJoMTB; leaving the EU alone will not affect the freedom of movement rights other EEA nationals enjoy in the UK and British nationals enjoy in other EEA countries. The UK would also have to leave the EEA.

One thing which is rarely mentioned by those who want the UK to restrict or remove the treaty rights of other EEA nationals in the UK is the approx. 1.5 million British citizens who are currently exercising their treaty rights in other EEA states!

It is possible that the UK would not withdraw from the relevant treaties even if it left both the EU and the EEA. After all, Switzerland is not a member of either the EU nor the EEA, but has a free movement agreement with both.

[Pete Beale]

The group 'Migration Watch' needs to understand the difference between EU agreements and EEA agreements.

Cos it's the EEA agreement that gives everyone the right to live and work.

Leaving the EU doesn't affect the EEA agreement.

They do understand, they're talking in the report about leaving both the EU and the EEA.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Pete Beale

[Thongkorn]

I thought Britain joined the Common Market for free trade , not to be dictated too,

[Richard W]

One thing which is rarely mentioned by those who want the UK to restrict or remove the treaty rights of other EEA nationals in the UK is the approx. 1.5 million British citizens who are currently exercising their treaty rights in other EEA states!

How does that split between job seekers + families, workers + families, and retirees? I assume surinder-singhers are not a significant proportion. Spain may well continue to accept British retirees. I would not be surprised if many of the Britons employed on the continent were able to get work permits. Of course, it might be hard on poor Anglo-Dutch couples.

[Richard W]

I thought Britain joined the Common Market for free trade , not to be dictated too,

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. I also know a lot of professional engineers who've worked in Germany. I believe the three free movements - of goods, labour and capital - were well known when the UK joined.

[Geoffggi]

The UK should take a leaf out of the Danish books and restore the balance from taking all they can from it's own citizens while sucking up to EU opinion of what is good or bad for England - Good for you Denmark..!!

[Baerboxer]

UK has never been a member of the EU, always wanted special treatments, special tax deductions, and as always used its position to please the USA...good thing if the lapdog is going back to his master

Wrong, The UK and Northern EU countries won't pander to German dictatorships, French lies, hypocrisy, and bureaucrats, Belgian always wanting their own way, and Southern European countries expectations of everything for nothing.

The Poles, the Danes, the Baltic states etc begin to see through the crap. The French used to twist the rules they wanted to make for everyone else to suit themselves, until Berlin got a grip on them.

That the trouble with socialists, they want to spend everybody else's money, and lay the law down for everyone else but not themselves of course. And of course, they create legions of bureaucrats to try and make sure elections can't change anything when they get voted out.

[Baerboxer]

I thought Britain joined the Common Market for free trade , not to be dictated too,

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. I also know a lot of professional engineers who've worked in Germany. I believe the three free movements - of goods, labour and capital - were well known when the UK joined.

Yep - good principals. Not to be confused with non elected, non transparent, bureaucrats making rules to justify their budget increases; or France trying to put taxes on financial transactions to suit themselves or inventing restrictions of goods to favor their producers; or allowing the free flowing of undocumented illegal immigrants into Europe, with those responsible then demanding all EU members must take a quota.

What's so special about engineers? I know lot's of people, including me, that's worked in Germany, France and other EU countries. So what?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

UK has never been a member of the EU, always wanted special treatments, special tax deductions, and as always used its position to please the USA...good thing if the lapdog is going back to his master

Wrong, The UK and Northern EU countries won't pander to German dictatorships, French lies, hypocrisy, and bureaucrats, Belgian always wanting their own way, and Southern European countries expectations of everything for nothing.

The Poles, the Danes, the Baltic states etc begin to see through the crap. The French used to twist the rules they wanted to make for everyone else to suit themselves, until Berlin got a grip on them.

That the trouble with socialists, they want to spend everybody else's money, and lay the law down for everyone else but not themselves of course. And of course, they create legions of bureaucrats to try and make sure elections can't change anything when they get voted out.

Wrong also,

The most evident thing that UK was never in UE is they kept their currency.

You may like or not Europe, personally I don t like this Frankenstein monster, but UK as always wanted to play with special rules applicable only for UK, so better leave it and not try to con the other countries or show some economical threats....

UK is more american than European and their politics has always been a clear signal to this allegiance .

[Steely Dan]

The way the wind is blowing this just about seals it for the Brexit campaign, as it rightly should.

[Humberstone]

I thought Britain joined the Common Market for free trade , not to be dictated too,

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. I also know a lot of professional engineers who've worked in Germany. I believe the three free movements - of goods, labour and capital - were well known when the UK joined.

Yep - good principals. Not to be confused with non elected, non transparent, bureaucrats making rules to justify their budget increases; or France trying to put taxes on financial transactions to suit themselves or inventing restrictions of goods to favor their producers; or allowing the free flowing of undocumented illegal immigrants into Europe, with those responsible then demanding all EU members must take a quota.

What's so special about engineers? I know lot's of people, including me, that's worked in Germany, France and other EU countries. So what?

There are non elected bureaucrats - correct. Do these bureaucrats dictate and formulate and pass EU policies ???

You forgot to mention that all the British bureaucrats in the British Parliament are also unelected. It's also a bit rich for a Brit to crow about this, the House of Lords is an unelected upper chamber including hereditary peers and members of the Church !

[7by7]

One thing which is rarely mentioned by those who want the UK to restrict or remove the treaty rights of other EEA nationals in the UK is the approx. 1.5 million British citizens who are currently exercising their treaty rights in other EEA states!

How does that split between job seekers + families, workers + families, and retirees? I assume surinder-singhers are not a significant proportion. Spain may well continue to accept British retirees. I would not be surprised if many of the Britons employed on the continent were able to get work permits. Of course, it might be hard on poor Anglo-Dutch couples.

The best figures I could find come from Two million British people emigrated to EU, figures show; which, as you will see, come from 2010 and so are a bit out of date!

Of the two million in 2010, 400,000, 20%, were pensioners (not 'retirees,' we're not American!). I doubt the proportion will have changed much since then.

I've been unable to find out how many of the remaining 80% were job seekers, workers or students or families of same.

What would happen to these people, and to EEA nationals currently exercising their treaty rights in the UK, should the UK tear up the freedom of movement treaties; who knows? I suspect that those who have PR would be allowed to remain; but what about the others?

But if that were to happen then Brits wishing to move to an EEA country after the event would, presumably, be treated the same as any other non EEA national. Why would EEA states treat Brits favourably when the UK is imposing the same visa requirements on their citizens as it does to people from outside the EEA?

It's easy enough to assume that a Brit wanting to work in an EEA state could get a work permit; but how easily? I don't know enough about other EEA states' immigration rules to say; but if they are anything like the UK's, not very!

As we both know from posts in the Visas and migration to other countries forum, it can be difficult enough getting a visa to live in some EEA states, Spain in particular, with a Thai spouse now; even with the UK still in the EEA and the British spouse exercising their treaty rights.. How much more difficult would it be if the UK left?

[Grouse]

The whole concept f the EU was flawed from the beginning.

Ted Heath was a criminal in more ways than one.

At lest The Iron Lady kept the pound.

Gordon Brown actually

[Richard W]

The best figures I could find come from Two million British people emigrated to EU, figures show; which, as you will see, come from 2010 and so are a bit out of date!

Of the two million in 2010, 400,000, 20%, were pensioners (not 'retirees,' we're not American!). I doubt the proportion will have changed much since then.

I've been unable to find out how many of the remaining 80% were job seekers, workers or students or families of same.

I've looked at the parliamentary answer you quote indirectly, at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/text/140204w0001.htm . The numbers for Spain surprised me - 1,050,000 Britons, of whom 96,990 were drawing the state pension. By comparison, according to Wikipedia, there were only 83,000 Spanish-born people in Britain. That's quite a surprise to me, given the high Spanish unemployment rates, even if only half the retired Britons in Spain were drawing the state pension.

What would happen to these people, and to EEA nationals currently exercising their treaty rights in the UK, should the UK tear up the freedom of movement treaties; who knows? I suspect that those who have PR would be allowed to remain; but what about the others?

But if that were to happen then Brits wishing to move to an EEA country after the event would, presumably, be treated the same as any other non EEA national. Why would EEA states treat Brits favourably when the UK is imposing the same visa requirements on their citizens as it does to people from outside the EEA?

It's easy enough to assume that a Brit wanting to work in an EEA state could get a work permit; but how easily? I don't know enough about other EEA states' immigration rules to say; but if they are anything like the UK's, not very!

As we both know from posts in the Visas and migration to other countries forum, it can be difficult enough getting a visa to live in some EEA states, Spain in particular, with a Thai spouse now; even with the UK still in the EEA and the British spouse exercising their treaty rights.. How much more difficult would it be if the UK left?

My assumption was that working Britons abroad were mostly in skilled jobs. There seem to be quite a lot of skilled immigrants coming in to the UK from outside the EEA - employers are supposed to be complaining that the UK government is cutting down on their numbers in an attempt to squeeze the grand total of controllable (non-EEA) plus uncontrollable (EEA) immigration.

[7by7]

<snip>

The numbers for Spain surprised me - 1,050,000 Britons, of whom 96,990 were drawing the state pension. By comparison, according to Wikipedia, there were only 83,000 Spanish-born people in Britain. That's quite a surprise to me, given the high Spanish unemployment rates, even if only half the retired Britons in Spain were drawing the state pension.

From your link, there were at that time 2,197,800 in total living in other EEA states, of which 395,450 (18%) were drawing the UK state pension. Of course, some may be living off independent means and not drawing the state pension, some may be students, some may be job seekers. But I suspect the majority are working; though I have no evidence to support that.

My assumption was that working Britons abroad were mostly in skilled jobs.

And by implication most EEA workers in the UK aren't?

Walk onto any large building site in the UK; lot's of EEA nationals there; but maybe you don't consider carpenters, bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, plasterers etc. to be skilled?

From my experience there are also lots of EEA nationals working in the NHS; not just cleaners and porters but paramedics, nurses, doctors.

Of course, there are unskilled EEA workers in the UK as well; but there is no reason to believe that there are only a relatively few unskilled Brits working in other EEA states.

If you can find reliable figures which suggest otherwise, I'll be very interested to see them.

[Ghostnigel]

UK has never been a member of the EU, always wanted special treatments, special tax deductions, and as always used its position to please the USA...good thing if the lapdog is going back to his master

Why shouldnt they have special treatment? The american lap-dog is welcome back anytime to their mother country....