Govt: 126 laws must be amended to allow true reform to take place

[rubl]

You're somewhat impracticle, my dear heybruce. It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations.

So, even with the old charter it seemed many laws needed to be brought in line, be improved and a few new ones introduced. Somehow something democratically elected governments never found the time for, too busy, not really important, etc., etc.

Now the not democratic government does something and it's all "why not start with themselves", "why not this", "why not that". Shouldn't people feel happy that the real prosecution is left to the new, to be elected government ?

Apparently you concede my first point, that people aren't allowed to publicly call for the military to clean up its act. It appears to me that the military isn't fighting corruption but re-directing it. After all, the less corruption there is in other parts of government the fatter the cut for the military. However it also appears the army has given up on reforming the police; no doubt the police know too much about the army's dirty laundry.

"It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations."

That would have been nice, though I wasn't surprised. I was surprised at the number of people from western democracies who were thrilled to see democracy in Thailand overthrown once again in a military coup, and the number who remain constant apologists and rationalizers for a clearly corrupt military intent on holding onto power. In your case you seem quite content with a military involved in organized crime, people smuggling, drug smuggling, prostitution, gambling and any other profitable illegal activities.

When there are democratically elected governments they tread on needles and take great care to not offend the military and prompt another coup. Thaksin tried to promote generals thought less likely to stage a coup to top offices in the military. Do you remember how that ended?

Do you really think the military will allow a constitution that gives the elected government any power over the army? Attempts to correct the glaring corruption and lack of oversight of the military by an elected government would prompt another coup. Only long term internal and external pressure will hopefully convince the military that it must stay in the barracks and accept civilian oversight. The alternative is much worse.

your reply is just the normal junta bashing. Not really helpful.

Now if only we had an English copy of the new draft charter then we would be in a better position to discuss possible effects on existing laws.

[rubl]

watch to see how the junta stashes the blatantly unacceptable parts of the constitution in the "organic" laws and then look at how they cover it up.

The junta has an iron grip on the throat of the country.

It will take more students and good people of the real variety to bring democracy back to Thailand.

Does this mean the CDC managed to put bits in the charter which even you find acceptable?

[toybits]

Hmmmm . . . . Social Equality?

Have you heard people (wearing brown or green clothing) asking you "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

That's Social Equality for you.

[jayboy]

I guess you're implying that the non-elected government is not better (or worse) in this than the elected governments before ?

Still it would seem that just by keeping on talking about corruption the government already made the Thai population much more aware of how invasive corruption is in Thailand and how that blocks it's progress.

BTW anti-corruption laws do cover a lot, including politicians and government bureaucrats and any one working for the government be they an official lawn sweeper or a three star general in the police or armed forces. Some here are somewhat impractical idealistic and want to start now and with the armed forces. More pragmatic and probably in the end more effective is having a new, elected government behaving and slowly make all others behave as well.

Of course the junta could have 'done' all within three months, but I fear there would not have been any lasting, visible effect a few days after having relinquished control.

Do the anti corruption measures you speak of address the curious tendency of army generals - including prominent Junta members - to amass large fortunes which bear no obvious connection with their very modest salaries? When questioned about this aspect they spit at and threaten the hapless journalists concerned.

One would have thought that reform should begin at home but of course I forgot - they are all good people.

It would seem reform begins at home only when one discusses those one dislikes. When the ones one likes are in power there doesn't seem to be any reason for the 'start at home' or even for more than "we take special care of corruption".

So, a charter which may be a bit more solid and laws build on that foundation. Next a government which actually works along the rules for the good of the nation rather than the good of themselves.

What are you talking about? There are many - probably a majority - who dislike corruption wherever it is found.

There have been perfectly good constitutions in the past.Their defects were not the reason for the excesses of politicians and generals.The thrust of the current Charter is to give the self appointed good people a permanent block on the elected representatives of the Thai people.This is why it is so poorly regarded by people like Abhisit and Korn.

[heybruce]

You're somewhat impracticle, my dear heybruce. It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations.

So, even with the old charter it seemed many laws needed to be brought in line, be improved and a few new ones introduced. Somehow something democratically elected governments never found the time for, too busy, not really important, etc., etc.

Now the not democratic government does something and it's all "why not start with themselves", "why not this", "why not that". Shouldn't people feel happy that the real prosecution is left to the new, to be elected government ?

Apparently you concede my first point, that people aren't allowed to publicly call for the military to clean up its act. It appears to me that the military isn't fighting corruption but re-directing it. After all, the less corruption there is in other parts of government the fatter the cut for the military. However it also appears the army has given up on reforming the police; no doubt the police know too much about the army's dirty laundry.

"It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations."

That would have been nice, though I wasn't surprised. I was surprised at the number of people from western democracies who were thrilled to see democracy in Thailand overthrown once again in a military coup, and the number who remain constant apologists and rationalizers for a clearly corrupt military intent on holding onto power. In your case you seem quite content with a military involved in organized crime, people smuggling, drug smuggling, prostitution, gambling and any other profitable illegal activities.

When there are democratically elected governments they tread on needles and take great care to not offend the military and prompt another coup. Thaksin tried to promote generals thought less likely to stage a coup to top offices in the military. Do you remember how that ended?

Do you really think the military will allow a constitution that gives the elected government any power over the army? Attempts to correct the glaring corruption and lack of oversight of the military by an elected government would prompt another coup. Only long term internal and external pressure will hopefully convince the military that it must stay in the barracks and accept civilian oversight. The alternative is much worse.

your reply is just the normal junta bashing. Not really helpful.

Now if only we had an English copy of the new draft charter then we would be in a better position to discuss possible effects on existing laws.

Five days to think about it and that's the best you could come up with?

Ok, I'll reply in kind. Your posts are nothing but "My junta, right or wrong!"

[rubl]

You're somewhat impracticle, my dear heybruce. It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations.

So, even with the old charter it seemed many laws needed to be brought in line, be improved and a few new ones introduced. Somehow something democratically elected governments never found the time for, too busy, not really important, etc., etc.

Now the not democratic government does something and it's all "why not start with themselves", "why not this", "why not that". Shouldn't people feel happy that the real prosecution is left to the new, to be elected government ?

Apparently you concede my first point, that people aren't allowed to publicly call for the military to clean up its act. It appears to me that the military isn't fighting corruption but re-directing it. After all, the less corruption there is in other parts of government the fatter the cut for the military. However it also appears the army has given up on reforming the police; no doubt the police know too much about the army's dirty laundry.

"It's as if you're really surprised that the junta didn't stage a show with all junta members hanging themselves to be an example for future generations."

That would have been nice, though I wasn't surprised. I was surprised at the number of people from western democracies who were thrilled to see democracy in Thailand overthrown once again in a military coup, and the number who remain constant apologists and rationalizers for a clearly corrupt military intent on holding onto power. In your case you seem quite content with a military involved in organized crime, people smuggling, drug smuggling, prostitution, gambling and any other profitable illegal activities.

When there are democratically elected governments they tread on needles and take great care to not offend the military and prompt another coup. Thaksin tried to promote generals thought less likely to stage a coup to top offices in the military. Do you remember how that ended?

Do you really think the military will allow a constitution that gives the elected government any power over the army? Attempts to correct the glaring corruption and lack of oversight of the military by an elected government would prompt another coup. Only long term internal and external pressure will hopefully convince the military that it must stay in the barracks and accept civilian oversight. The alternative is much worse.

your reply is just the normal junta bashing. Not really helpful.

Now if only we had an English copy of the new draft charter then we would be in a better position to discuss possible effects on existing laws.

Five days to think about it and that's the best you could come up with?

Ok, I'll reply in kind. Your posts are nothing but "My junta, right or wrong!"

So, did we get a pointer to an English version of the final draft charter already?