Redshirt leader Jatuporn detained at army barracks

[sjaak327]

The wife once heard him say "burn......".

And:

We will mobilise an army........

And:

We will divide the country.......

In her view enough to lock him up for quite a long time.

He is still on bail on his terrorism charges case.

But, like many of his friends, still believes he is above and beyond the law.

Wonder if all those admirers still give him expensive gifts which explains his sudden wealth?

Judging from the fact that he is rounded up, he quite clearly isn't above and beyond the law. As opposed to your buddies at the NCPO who are not only above the law, they ARE the law.

Now maybe we should find out about those expensive gifts mere army generals seem to be getting, or is that not of interest ? After all they are the good people right ?

Ah the reading and comprehension skills of the Shin fans. It is what we say, not what you wrote.

He thought he was above the law, untouchable as one of the boss's chosen boys. But looks like he thought wrong, although he's been pushing it in his quest to be a "martyr" and thirst to be in the news.

The NCPO are not my buddies, don't know a single one, although strangely enough I do know two former PTP ministers. Maybe Jatoporn is your buddy?

This thread is about him, and what others have done or not done is not an excuse for him.

Not a shin fan. I know, in your little world, everyone dare to take a stand against the junta and their questionable methods to discourage dissent must be a shin fan, in the real world, it is a bit more complicated.

This thread is indeed about him, and about why exactly he was detained. Now are you seriously claiming you agree with detaining people for opposing the draf constitution. And by people who themselves are indeed above the law. A bit hard to take a justice system and it's law serious that way.

[sjaak327]

Actually PT only had 265 seats in parliament. So the bill actually had other democratically elected MP's voting in favor. Not like the current amnesty enjoyed by precious few, that one had the backing of zero democratically elected MP's.

I doubt the one you responded to was referring to Thaksin, he never at any time had written amnesty for himself. Your buddies at the NCPO did.

Ah, you mean the other MPs who joined the "co-alition" took the boss's shilling so to speak. So all these MPs voted for a bill that at the time was being pilloried by vast numbers of the electorate. Obviously there to govern not represent.

And then we had all those amendments, done in conflict to parliamentary rules. And who do you think made sure of the wording of the one that favored Thaksin? Clue he's a convicted criminal fugitive who used to chair Man City. Interesting that when it became evident vast swathes of the electorate were protesting and would simply not accept the contrived whitewash, Yingluck said they'd all been withdrawn, killed off. But she lied, and forgot to mention the one favoring her brother wasn't.

I'm sure the one I responded to wasn't referring to Thaksin too as he's another frequent Shin apologist and fan boy.

The NCPO aren't my buddies.

And, yes Thaksin did try and write a whitwash Amnesty for himself, his little sister and all their family, friends, cronies and lackeys.

Actually even that coalition only had 300 seats, good to see how MP's suddenly have no right to vote for laws they deem acceptable. What vast numbers of the electorate were opposed to that bill ? Didn't know Thailand had a referendum regarding this bill. And if those vast numbers are not in your head, an election would have shown that, and indeed Yingluck would have never been able to "scam it through"

I guess the Junta and Suthep weren't so sure about those vast number opposing the bill, hence the coup.

And no Thaksin might have written an amnesty for himself, that amnesty NEVER made it through, in contrast to the NCPO amnesty that is part of the law of the land. Funny you are so opposed to the first amnesty and not against the second.

SO if the NCPO aren't your buddies, I am at a loss why you condemm Thaksin's amnesty but not the one from the NCPO, is that because they are the good guys ?

SIlly bugger.

[Gunna]

".. it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections."

Well, they international community disagrees with you but I guess you have heard differently, right? Same old drivel from the naivety bunch.

Keep on lying and you will get found out with facts

http://anfrel.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ThaiEOMReport_Edit_4-final_edit.pdf

Campaign Expenses 2011

The ECTs campaign finance regulations technically limit campaigns to B1.5m. This limit was widely believed to be disregarded by virtually all candidates and their supporters.

Whether or not one included illicit expenses such as Money Spent for Vote Buying (that was believed to be WIDESPREAD),

ANFREL was established in 1997 as Asias first regional network of

civil society organisations promoting democratization. It has a strong

network of over 20 partner organisations within Asia from whom it draws

experienced election observers to take part in its various missions.

ANFREL has significant experience coordinating international election

observation missions in Thailand, receiving international funding to

observe the 2001, 2005, and 2007 general elections.

spent far more than the 1.5 million baht limit.

[English patriot]

His bag was very pretty but those shirts well

[EnglishJohn]

Surely, if they do not want this constitution they should vote against it rather than boycott the referendum.

lol, reminds about earlier (before they resorted to the M79's) when the red-shirts were sent went out to protest about other people protesting.

What a joke.

[halloween]

The results of the referendum for the 2007 Constitution was based on number of votes actually cast. The Constitution passed by a majority of 56-59%. But in terms of total registered voters, the Constitution only passed by about a minority of one-third!

There is no accounting for absent votes. Complacency, protest and/or political obstructionist actually favors passage of the Constitution as it is more likely that the minority pro-royalists (generally aligned with the Democrats, BJT, Chartthaipattana) will vote than frustrated majority non-royalists (generally aligned with the PTP, Chart Pattana Puea Pandin). It appears that the EC will again only consider the majority of votes cast.

So Jatuporn is wrong to ask people to boycott the referendum.

The military will again suffer if necessary the embarassment of a low turnout as it is only the appearance of a vote being allowed that matters. The image of democracy is much less riskier than the practice of democracy.

Rather than playing the obstructionist, Jatuporn should be educating the electorate literally door-to-door (NCPO permitting) on the importance of voting on the referendum, albeit currently cannot advocate voting against it as that is a crime against the NCPO.

"It appears that the EC will again only consider the majority of votes cast."

Is there another way to run an election?

[sjaak327]

The results of the referendum for the 2007 Constitution was based on number of votes actually cast. The Constitution passed by a majority of 56-59%. But in terms of total registered voters, the Constitution only passed by about a minority of one-third!

There is no accounting for absent votes. Complacency, protest and/or political obstructionist actually favors passage of the Constitution as it is more likely that the minority pro-royalists (generally aligned with the Democrats, BJT, Chartthaipattana) will vote than frustrated majority non-royalists (generally aligned with the PTP, Chart Pattana Puea Pandin). It appears that the EC will again only consider the majority of votes cast.

So Jatuporn is wrong to ask people to boycott the referendum.

The military will again suffer if necessary the embarassment of a low turnout as it is only the appearance of a vote being allowed that matters. The image of democracy is much less riskier than the practice of democracy.

Rather than playing the obstructionist, Jatuporn should be educating the electorate literally door-to-door (NCPO permitting) on the importance of voting on the referendum, albeit currently cannot advocate voting against it as that is a crime against the NCPO.

"It appears that the EC will again only consider the majority of votes cast."

Is there another way to run an election?

This isn't an election, it is a referendum. In many democracies the problem pointed out by srikcir would have resulted in the referendum declared void.

[Trouble]

I can't imagine how many times Thaksin was mentioned so far. He has been out of office for 9 years. Whether you like Thaksin or not he received the backing of the rural poor the first time elected and he has supporters. He was reelected and forced out in a coup and then his sister, Yingluck, is forced out. Like them or not twice the military stepped in to get rid of them because the military did not like what it perceived as a threat to its power, not because the military was so concerned about democracy in the country. The military fears people like Thaksin. Is Thaksin corrupt, most likely. Are the generals running the army corrupt, sure. The military junta is about preserving their place in the pyramid as they conveniently placed themselves as protectors of the monarchy (as if there is any real threat to such) and therefore above the elected government and the people. It is about power not preserving democracy or ridding the nation of corruption. People like Thaksin want the military under control of the elected government (for good or bad), not as an entity above the government.

The PTP and its supporters have been put down twice by the military. Seems to me that the PTP - Redshirts and affiliates have their own reason to be frustrated with the state of affairs in Thailand regardless of whether Thaksin ever returns or not. From my point of view Thaksin is history. However to my way of thinking, both the PTP political apparatus and the Democrats have reason to see the new constitution as a joke because it appears to give no authority to an elected government. Seems to me that if indeed the Senate is unelected and there are structures set in place to negate anything the Assembly might vote on, then you have nothing but an appearance of an elected government. In reality the government just does what the military wants and you have an autocracy, in this case run by some general.

Seems like to me all this talk about the past leaders of the PTP, Democrats, etc. good or bad is a mute point. If the remnants of the PTP and Democrats don't fight this new constitution then the military will be running Thailand through a puppet Assembly. Like many have said in real democracy one accepts the good and the bad and hopes for better in the future.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Trouble

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory and nonsense posts have been removed.

[lvr181]

Good to see that the TVF folks are just as divided as Thai society! If us farangs can't reconcile, how the hell can we expect Thais to reconcile?

Having said that, does anyone know how the referendum vote is structured? If it requires a majority vote of 'eligible' voters, then there is a purpose in boycotting the referendum and makes it a bit more difficult to manipulate the vote when people don't vote. Is there any enlightened soul here than knows the answer?

For the record, I condemn the heavy handed tactics of the junta.

I don't think that many TVF folks want just reconciliation. Speaking for myself, I would like to see a major reduction of cronyism and corruption also (unfortunately these will never be eliminated no matter what the type of Government is in place). Bring in accountability, responsibility and transparency to ALL levels of society. Allow freedom of expression tempered only by laws regarding libel. And above all provide for top quality education of the young in order that society can succeed in a future world for the benefit of ALL Thai people.

But the reality is that the powerful people DO NOT want to give up or share "wealth" with the rest of Thai peoples. That is huge barrier to dismantle. To hear the public utterances of some "top" people gives little hope of real advances being made.

[LannaGuy]

I can't imagine how many times Thaksin was mentioned so far. He has been out of office for 9 years. Whether you like Thaksin or not he received the backing of the rural poor the first time elected and he has supporters. He was reelected and forced out in a coup and then his sister, Yingluck, is forced out. Like them or not twice the military stepped in to get rid of them because the military did not like what it perceived as a threat to its power, not because the military was so concerned about democracy in the country. The military fears people like Thaksin. Is Thaksin corrupt, most likely. Are the generals running the army corrupt, sure. The military junta is about preserving their place in the pyramid as they conveniently placed themselves as protectors of the monarchy (as if there is any real threat to such) and therefore above the elected government and the people. It is about power not preserving democracy or ridding the nation of corruption. People like Thaksin want the military under control of the elected government (for good or bad), not as an entity above the government.

The PTP and its supporters have been put down twice by the military. Seems to me that the PTP - Redshirts and affiliates have their own reason to be frustrated with the state of affairs in Thailand regardless of whether Thaksin ever returns or not. From my point of view Thaksin is history. However to my way of thinking, both the PTP political apparatus and the Democrats have reason to see the new constitution as a joke because it appears to give no authority to an elected government. Seems to me that if indeed the Senate is unelected and there are structures set in place to negate anything the Assembly might vote on, then you have nothing but an appearance of an elected government. In reality the government just does what the military wants and you have an autocracy, in this case run by some general.

Seems like to me all this talk about the past leaders of the PTP, Democrats, etc. good or bad is a mute point. If the remnants of the PTP and Democrats don't fight this new constitution then the military will be running Thailand through a puppet Assembly. Like many have said in real democracy one accepts the good and the bad and hopes for better in the future.

exactly so and the current mob have been in power early two years yet STILL the ignorant chirp on about Thaksin or Yingluck instead of addressing the NOW of military rule

[DM07]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

[bendejo]

I think Jatuporn is a funny guy, sort of the mascot of the movement. If they were to make a movie about the Redshirts he should be played by Jerry Lewis, if Jerry wasn't so old.

If not for all this the guy would probably have been a taxi driver.

[Stargeezr]

I am glad that I am only a tourist that goes and enjoys 1 to 4 months in Thailand.

I still enjoy my visits, but I am just as glad to not live too long in Thailand for now.

Maybe in another 8 to 10 years, but for now I am content to be a tourist.

I just wish I could stay in Thailand up to 3 months without needing a visa.

Stargeezer

[Stargeezr]

I will be a happy man, when there are no more Red shirts or Yellow shirts, as groups in

Thailand. I like wearing a yellow shirt on Mondays, and blue shirts on Friday, but that is

to respect the Royal Family. It will be a happy day for all when Thailand is a stable

country and is finished with these troubles of today.

[skildpadden]

I don't like the guy, I think he's a snake and I wouldn't trust him any moment.

You can't just haul a guy away for attitude adjustment because he thinks the constitution draft is bad. But perhaps that is how you get 99% popularity.

You have to accept all sides in a democratic society with free speech. Then you have your freedom to ridicule him as much as you want to, drawing satirical cartoons etc. Free speech and respect for disagreement leads to reconciliation - but neither side appear to be willing to give that.

[sweatalot]

How does a person boycott a draft constitution?

We can boycott by not going to an event, or by not buying an item or service.

I think what they are getting at is that the reds are going to actively oppose it and urge others to the same which is a different thing entirely

There is no way Thaksin wants this new charter and agencies it empowers as it will effectively end any aspirations he has of coming to Thailand under an amnesty deal, it closes all the doors, he will never be able to return without facing the remaining charges and going to jail, it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections - so basically he is shafted and the redshirt movement is left without a sponsor, bye bye to the lot of them

".. it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections."

Well, they international community disagrees with you but I guess you have heard differently, right? Same old drivel from the naivety bunch.

Hey smedley. Will the new constitution make it harder for your army friends to overthrow elected governments? Oh wait, I forgot. After the new constitution is in place there won't be any need for a coup since the army will have final say anyway.

The reason for the international community to disagree is neither based on justice nor on understanding nor on well wishing

[MZurf]

How does a person boycott a draft constitution?

We can boycott by not going to an event, or by not buying an item or service.

I think what they are getting at is that the reds are going to actively oppose it and urge others to the same which is a different thing entirely

There is no way Thaksin wants this new charter and agencies it empowers as it will effectively end any aspirations he has of coming to Thailand under an amnesty deal, it closes all the doors, he will never be able to return without facing the remaining charges and going to jail, it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections - so basically he is shafted and the redshirt movement is left without a sponsor, bye bye to the lot of them

".. it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections."

Well, they international community disagrees with you but I guess you have heard differently, right? Same old drivel from the naivety bunch.

Hey smedley. Will the new constitution make it harder for your army friends to overthrow elected governments? Oh wait, I forgot. After the new constitution is in place there won't be any need for a coup since the army will have final say anyway.

The reason for the international community to disagree is neither based on justice nor on understanding nor on well wishing

Huh??

[oldsailor35]

How does a person boycott a draft constitution?

We can boycott by not going to an event, or by not buying an item or service.

I think what they are getting at is that the reds are going to actively oppose it and urge others to the same which is a different thing entirely

There is no way Thaksin wants this new charter and agencies it empowers as it will effectively end any aspirations he has of coming to Thailand under an amnesty deal, it closes all the doors, he will never be able to return without facing the remaining charges and going to jail, it also makes it harder for people like him to buy elections - so basically he is shafted and the redshirt movement is left without a sponsor, bye bye to the lot of them

Dream on, the uneducated will never give in to the small percentage of the population who think that they are "born to rule" They will fight for their rights forever, and the sooner the "born to rule" realise this the better for all.

[oldsailor35]

While I do detest the heavy handed nature of this junta I find Jatuporn to be an absolute cretin.

The thing is both sides will need to break bread for true reconciliation but it will just never happen.

Wrong, there is no reconciliation with the junta, true or otherwise. That is just smoke and mirrors.

If there were a democracy in Thailand, then the voters could send Jatuporn packing.

As it is, the junta is just making him more important in the eyes of his supporters.

PTP as a political party which follows Thaksin is not the future for Thailand. Red Shirts who want a better future need new leadership and their own party.

The one point where Weng and Jatuporn are right is that accepting this constitution would be a huge mistake.

I too hope that the awoken masses have realised that Thaksin is not their savior. They of course already know that the power base in Bangkok cares not a jot for them either.

Thailand desperately needs a fresh young leader free from all the feudalistic clap trap. This leader would have a hell of a task breaking the current status quo though,

We can only hope....

Nothing will ever change as long as the "Born to rule" class remain so terrified of Thaksin.

[oldsailor35]

is it only me that finds it exceedingly funny when leaders of the Redshirts PTP and Thaksin affilliates point the finger at something being undemocratic..........seriously, these are the people that resort to murder and terroism when things aren't going their way (including the murder of children and gloating about it on stage)

Probably not only you, but you do have a proven minority of the nations voters thinking likewise.

[Artisi]

I don't like the guy, I think he's a snake and I wouldn't trust him any moment.

You can't just haul a guy away for attitude adjustment because he thinks the constitution draft is bad. But perhaps that is how you get 99% popularity.

You have to accept all sides in a democratic society with free speech. Then you have your freedom to ridicule him as much as you want to, drawing satirical cartoons etc. Free speech and respect for disagreement leads to reconciliation - but neither side appear to be willing to give that.

in a democratic society with free speech.... If only​

[bangrak]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

Something like being out on bail and not respecting the conditions, maybe...?

[sjaak327]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

Something like being out on bail and not respecting the conditions, maybe...?

Detained at an army barrack according to the report.

Now anybody with common sense would start asking questions.

I doubt it is what you are alluding to, but I think you know that yourself, you are just trying damage control.

[lvr181]

I don't like the guy, I think he's a snake and I wouldn't trust him any moment.

You can't just haul a guy away for attitude adjustment because he thinks the constitution draft is bad. But perhaps that is how you get 99% popularity.

You have to accept all sides in a democratic society with free speech. Then you have your freedom to ridicule him as much as you want to, drawing satirical cartoons etc. Free speech and respect for disagreement leads to reconciliation - but neither side appear to be willing to give that.

"willing(ness)"? I wonder if they have the slightest idea HOW to do it!

[ramrod711]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

I don't know, but I hope it was because they needed to have the urinals scrubbed with a toothbrush and he was thought to be eminently qualified.

[DM07]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

I don't know, but I hope it was because they needed to have the urinals scrubbed with a toothbrush and he was thought to be eminently qualified.

How funny you are!

[billd766]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

Why are you asking people on this forum the reason behind his arrest?

Nobody here arrested him.

Try asking the police or the army.

[JingerBen]

That manbag Jatuporn has doesn't look very manish.

Maybe that's the reason for his detention.

[DM07]

Again: on what charges was he arrested?

And please: spare me the "probably this", "probably that" and the "about time"!

Why are you asking people on this forum the reason behind his arrest?

Nobody here arrested him.

Try asking the police or the army.

Yep...because it is completely out of the question, that some here heard something from another (thai) news outlet or something like that!

You are a special kind of...special, aren't you?