Bridge club in Chiang Mai?

[luther]

I used to teach at an international school in Thailand. Packs of card with the revenue stamps were 10 USD, but you could buy them for 50 cents a deck at Walmart. Every other August I brought 30 decks back for math games and mathematical card tricks. I guess I could have gotten life.

[Konini]

This is all very silly and a huge loss of face for whoever instigated it. Can't blame the police or soldiers (in the video, there seemed to be several of them helping out and checking ID's etc) involved, they were only doing their jobs, I don't doubt for a second that there are things they have to deal with from time to time that they don't understand, I don't pretend to understand bridge or why anyone would want to play it it very polite but I assume competitive leagues around the world - but a couple of points I've picked up elsewhere which are quite important. Each of those arrested, and we have to congratulate all of them for not getting annoyed, was released after paying 5,000 bail and signing a document saying that they had taken part in gambling apart from one German lady who refused to sign (I think she was happy to pay, just not to incriminate herself, which I am 100% with her on this). I wonder how long it took this lady to extricate herself from the police station, I read in an Aussie paper that she spent the night there, and I wonder if and how the bail money paid will be refunded, I don't know how this usually works being a law-abiding type. One of those involved is a former British honorary consulate and he is quoted;

"They just would not believe we would play for fun and points no matter what," he told reporters. One raiding officer said: "I see. You put it all in the computer and settle up later."

It just goes to show how easy it is to break the law whilst having absolutely no idea that you are doing so. Even if you are more genteel than rough and ready.

[harrry]

The Bridge League of Thailand has a deep and wide pedigree of members so someone may be going to have a restless sleep expecting repercussions for this snafu. For example:

"On Thursday we spoke with Khunying Chodchoy, the President of the Contract Bridge League of Thailand, who travelled to Pattaya to assist those arrested during the raid."

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday"

Note her title. This case isn't going anywhere.

http://pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/221299/confusion-and-anger-at-pattaya-bridge-club-raid/

Wasn't concerned it would go somewhere, but it is noteworthy / newsworthy that the Thai police have managed -yet again- to show off their competence to the world.

I actually wish that Britain (for example) would rub it in a little. Call in the Thai ambassador and ask "what the actual #@&%, dude?", or however you say that in British English.

Requesting a formal apology from the police chief to those people would also be a decent course of action.

- "But, but.. loss of face bla bla khrap?"

-- "Ah.. in order to lose face, one must first acquire one. Off you go now!"

(I know, I know.. you have to go back quite a while to find a Britain that wouldn't be messed with.)

Gunboat on it's way up river to Bangkok.

er, hang on a minute, not sure we've any left

I think it was the french who did that more successfully.

[Konini]

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday"

Note her title. This case isn't going anywhere.

I've heard and seen this kind of thing several times over the years, it's obviously very easy to the initiated to be able to know if someone is 'important' by their surname, or in this case the title. Is there somewhere I can be pointed towards to find out more about these names or titles which seem to be of incredible importance here both to the holder and those beneath them, how to identify them or a list of them.

(For no reason other than idle curiosity).

[Tywais]

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday"

Note her title. This case isn't going anywhere.

I've heard and seen this kind of thing several times over the years, it's obviously very easy to the initiated to be able to know if someone is 'important' by their surname, or in this case the title. Is there somewhere I can be pointed towards to find out more about these names or titles which seem to be of incredible importance here both to the holder and those beneath them, how to identify them or a list of them.

(For no reason other than idle curiosity).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_royal_and_noble_titles

[harrry]

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday"

Note her title. This case isn't going anywhere.

I've heard and seen this kind of thing several times over the years, it's obviously very easy to the initiated to be able to know if someone is 'important' by their surname, or in this case the title. Is there somewhere I can be pointed towards to find out more about these names or titles which seem to be of incredible importance here both to the holder and those beneath them, how to identify them or a list of them.

(For no reason other than idle curiosity).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_royal_and_noble_titles

and then to practice your newfound skillls the membership list of the Thai Bridge Leaugue

http://www.thailandbridgeleague.com/?/member/

[Tywais]

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday"

Note her title. This case isn't going anywhere.

I've heard and seen this kind of thing several times over the years, it's obviously very easy to the initiated to be able to know if someone is 'important' by their surname, or in this case the title. Is there somewhere I can be pointed towards to find out more about these names or titles which seem to be of incredible importance here both to the holder and those beneath them, how to identify them or a list of them.

(For no reason other than idle curiosity).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_royal_and_noble_titles

and then to practice your newfound skillls the membership list of the Thai Bridge Leaugue

http://www.thailandbridgeleague.com/?/member/

As I mentioned, quite a pedigree of members. See several khunyings, a Captain a rear admiral a vice admiral ... What would be truly entertaining if one of them were at the game playing.

[cmsally]

This is all very silly and a huge loss of face for whoever instigated it. Can't blame the police or soldiers (in the video, there seemed to be several of them helping out and checking ID's etc) involved, they were only doing their jobs, I don't doubt for a second that there are things they have to deal with from time to time that they don't understand, I don't pretend to understand bridge or why anyone would want to play it it very polite but I assume competitive leagues around the world - but a couple of points I've picked up elsewhere which are quite important. Each of those arrested, and we have to congratulate all of them for not getting annoyed, was released after paying 5,000 bail and signing a document saying that they had taken part in gambling apart from one German lady who refused to sign (I think she was happy to pay, just not to incriminate herself, which I am 100% with her on this). I wonder how long it took this lady to extricate herself from the police station, I read in an Aussie paper that she spent the night there, and I wonder if and how the bail money paid will be refunded, I don't know how this usually works being a law-abiding type. One of those involved is a former British honorary consulate and he is quoted;

"They just would not believe we would play for fun and points no matter what," he told reporters. One raiding officer said: "I see. You put it all in the computer and settle up later."

It just goes to show how easy it is to break the law whilst having absolutely no idea that you are doing so. Even if you are more genteel than rough and ready.

Can't blame the police or soldiers (in the video, there seemed to be several of them helping out and checking ID's etc) involved, they were only doing their jobs, I don't doubt for a second that there are things they have to deal with from time to time that they don't understand,

I think the piece you wrote which I just quoted here, highlights one of the main problems. When carrying out a job both in the general and specific cases, it really is important that you should understand that job and what it entails.

Just as one person took the initiative not to sign what was put in front of her; well done to her, she used her brain and chose to understand the situation and stick to her principles. Unfortunately with the others signing that they were guilty, presumably now they can arrest any other bridge club and use the signed papers as a precedent to prove Bridge = gambling

[Tywais]

Unbelievable.

Case Against Elderly Bridge Players Moves Forward

By Sasiwan Mokkhasen
Staff Reporter

PATTAYA — Thirty-two elderly, bridge-playing foreigners will face the music and must defend their innocence in court, Pattaya police said today.

After a surprise crackdown in which seniors were arrested under an antiquated law made headlines worldwide Thursday, Police said the elderly Westerners are now free on 5,000 baht bonds.

“The case will still have to follow the legal process,” said Col. Sukthat Pumpanmuang, commander of the Pattaya Police Station.

Police did not find evidence of gambling when they raided Alto’s Restaurant and Bar on Wednesday and took the players into custody, but they seized computers on suspicion the players, 26 men and six women, might have been making electronic transfers of money.

The senior citizens were held until the early hours of the morning before being released. The oldest of the suspects is 84. They will all be charged under a law nearly as old.

More here - khaosodenglish

-- Khaosod English February 5, 2016

[CMKiwi]

Geez, I get a grand slam and end up in the not-so-grand slammer.

Perhaps the Pattaya Police should spend more time on more nefarious things, perhaps the yillegal export of ping pong balls......

And Im sure there must be some ancient law which states that ping pong balls are to be used with ping pong paddles (table tennis bats).... not as one may see (In use) at various entertainment establishments just off walking street!

They could easily take someones eye out (Especially if you're close to the launching pad). Darts are even worse.

Why not ban paper too? Ive had some nasty cuts in my time....

[Interactive]

Have a look to his websites

http://www.bridgewebs.com/chiangmai/

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/group-chiang-mai-community-1:bridge-chiang-mai

[iainiain101]

Unbelievable.

Case Against Elderly Bridge Players Moves Forward

By Sasiwan Mokkhasen

Staff Reporter

PATTAYA — Thirty-two elderly, bridge-playing foreigners will face the music and must defend their innocence in court, Pattaya police said today.

After a surprise crackdown in which seniors were arrested under an antiquated law made headlines worldwide Thursday, Police said the elderly Westerners are now free on 5,000 baht bonds.

“The case will still have to follow the legal process,” said Col. Sukthat Pumpanmuang, commander of the Pattaya Police Station.

Police did not find evidence of gambling when they raided Alto’s Restaurant and Bar on Wednesday and took the players into custody, but they seized computers on suspicion the players, 26 men and six women, might have been making electronic transfers of money.

The senior citizens were held until the early hours of the morning before being released. The oldest of the suspects is 84. They will all be charged under a law nearly as old.

More here - khaosodenglish

-- Khaosod English February 5, 2016

Pretty hard to argue your innocence after having signed a confession.

[cmsally]

Someone must have donated a couple of shovels to the police, as they are digging themselves even deeper.

This is what happens when duties are carried out, without flicking the "on" switch.

[Tywais]

Unbelievable.

Case Against Elderly Bridge Players Moves Forward

By Sasiwan Mokkhasen

Staff Reporter

PATTAYA — Thirty-two elderly, bridge-playing foreigners will face the music and must defend their innocence in court, Pattaya police said today.

After a surprise crackdown in which seniors were arrested under an antiquated law made headlines worldwide Thursday, Police said the elderly Westerners are now free on 5,000 baht bonds.

“The case will still have to follow the legal process,” said Col. Sukthat Pumpanmuang, commander of the Pattaya Police Station.

Police did not find evidence of gambling when they raided Alto’s Restaurant and Bar on Wednesday and took the players into custody, but they seized computers on suspicion the players, 26 men and six women, might have been making electronic transfers of money.

The senior citizens were held until the early hours of the morning before being released. The oldest of the suspects is 84. They will all be charged under a law nearly as old.

More here - khaosodenglish

-- Khaosod English February 5, 2016

Pretty hard to argue your innocence after having signed a confession.

I'm sure the lawyers will point out it was in Thai language and done under duress. Plus, if it does go to court they can then plead not guilty which probably will negate the original form (IMO).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Or more likely, they plead guilty and get fined 250 Baht or whatever.

[MaeJoMTB]

First they came for those who played Bridge and I said nothing because I don't play Bridge

Then they came for those who play dominoes and I said nothing because I don't play dominoes

Then they came for those who play snap and I said nothing because I don't play snap

Finally they came for those of us who play tiddlywinks and there was no one left to speak for us

Dominoes ......

My last gf was arrested in CM for playing dominoes.

I know, cos I was there and watched it happen, all the people (Thai) round the table loaded into a van and driven off.

15,000bht bail or a night in jail before they appeared in court.

5,000bht fine each the next day.

[Trujillo]

I believe the initial story had it that the authorities went there after a tip-off from an "informant."

This is usually where you need to start your investigation to find out what the actual motivation for the bust was.

"A bunch of septuagenarians and some octogenarians are playing a card game in a club formed over 21 years ago ... better bring some oxygen and denture cream -- This could get ugly."

Where is the traction? Who stood to gain by dobbing in a bunch of retirees on clearly rubbish charges?

[Konini]

Geez, I get a grand slam and end up in the not-so-grand slammer.

Perhaps the Pattaya Police should spend more time on more nefarious things, perhaps the yillegal export of ping pong balls......

And Im sure there must be some ancient law which states that ping pong balls are to be used with ping pong paddles (table tennis bats).... not as one may see (In use) at various entertainment establishments just off walking street!

They could easily take someones eye out (Especially if you're close to the launching pad). Darts are even worse.

Why not ban paper too? Ive had some nasty cuts in my time....

I'm equally sure there must be a law against ping pong balls being shot out of the nether regions of entertainers in the adult zones - oh wait, the whole concept of the adult zones is against the law. It is rather amusing to the outsider that police ignore the unhidden prostitution (AKA bar girl industry) including some that appear to be very young even by Asian standards and raid a bridge club and arrest the tricky tracky genteel folk.

I really wonder if someone is face-palming at the moment for being so stupid or if the instigator believes him or herself to be doing the right thing. I'd say possibly that it's the latter as the court cases are going ahead.

We still have no word on the woman who refused to sign, that is the most interesting aspect to that for me at the moment.

[sfokevin]

Unbelievable.

Case Against Elderly Bridge Players Moves Forward

By Sasiwan Mokkhasen

Staff Reporter

PATTAYA Thirty-two elderly, bridge-playing foreigners will face the music and must defend their innocence in court, Pattaya police said today.

After a surprise crackdown in which seniors were arrested under an antiquated law made headlines worldwide Thursday, Police said the elderly Westerners are now free on 5,000 baht bonds.

The case will still have to follow the legal process, said Col. Sukthat Pumpanmuang, commander of the Pattaya Police Station.

Police did not find evidence of gambling when they raided Altos Restaurant and Bar on Wednesday and took the players into custody, but they seized computers on suspicion the players, 26 men and six women, might have been making electronic transfers of money.

The senior citizens were held until the early hours of the morning before being released. The oldest of the suspects is 84. They will all be charged under a law nearly as old.

More here - khaosodenglish

-- Khaosod English February 5, 2016

Pretty hard to argue your innocence after having signed a confession.

I'm sure the lawyers will point out it was in Thai language and done under duress. Plus, if it does go to court they can then plead not guilty which probably will negate the original form (IMO).

Sadly there are a couple of guys from Myranmar that would disagree with your contention... Edited February 5, 2016 by sfokevin

[CMKiwi]

Yes thats pretty well what I was pointing to... ping pong balls amongst other objects and yet these 'shows' continue.

To a lot of people bridge is possibly quite a boring game and yet the Police and Army target it? I think there are a lot mor eimportant things that they could/should be doing. Ive yet to hear of anyones life being in jepardy as a result of playing bridge.

Pattaya has hit the headlines quite a bit recently with deaths on the roads...perhaps the BiB need to refocus their attention elsewhere......

just a thought

[nicksal37]

I would love to have been there.It is like a scene from Monty Python !

[Tywais]

I would love to have been there.It is like a scene from Monty Python !

The funny thing is, the players just ignored them until they completed their game at 4:30.

Here is a first hand account, link posted by another member - http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/confessions-of-a-bridge-criminal/

[NancyL]

I think if this had happened in Chiang Mai there would have been more than one bridge player who refused to sign a statement in a language she couldn't read. And in Chiang Mai, some Americans would have been arrested which would have increased the profile of this type of event up to the CNN and Amnesty International Level.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the humor in this type of event making the news and I think the various Thai gov't agencies that are encouraging foreigners to retire in Chiang Mai wouldn't have been amused either. It's bad enough to have Chiang Mai Immigration bullying seniors here. It would be an entire another level of bad for the police to be raiding the meetings of a private club to arrest elderly foreign retirees participating in a social event.

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

[kalbo123]

I think if this had happened in Chiang Mai there would have been more than one bridge player who refused to sign a statement in a language she couldn't read. And in Chiang Mai, some Americans would have been arrested which would have increased the profile of this type of event up to the CNN and Amnesty International Level.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the humor in this type of event making the news and I think the various Thai gov't agencies that are encouraging foreigners to retire in Chiang Mai wouldn't have been amused either. It's bad enough to have Chiang Mai Immigration bullying seniors here. It would be an entire another level of bad for the police to be raiding the meetings of a private club to arrest elderly foreign retirees participating in a social event.

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

Don't think so, these people in Pattaya were just scared and would have signed everything, just to leave the police station.

Just like the oldies in CM would do.

CM oldies are not a different breed then Pattaya oldies, although they might have a bit less money..

Last sentence is correct, it is just wrong on so many levels.

[CMKiwi]

Yes Nancy its likely not a very nice thing for the elderly folk to go through. But it is highlighting to the rest of the world how Thailand is just so different.

People dont always take our word for it but when they see these things...one has to ask what the heck is going on.

Logic is not a big thing here and a lack of planning in most areas is plainly evident.

But then maybe those are Western traits?

Yes this episode is very bad for a lot of reasons, but I expect it wont be the last of them.

The ringmaster certainly wont be impressed by all the negative press, let alone having to watch his subordinates make yet another blunder.

Respect is earnt, not given.... and some areas in this country need a real good shake up before even their own people start to look up to them.

Cant see that happening too soon.

Edited February 5, 2016 by CMKiwi

[buddhalady]

Yes, it's wrong, very wrong, and gives cause for more concern about retirees' future security here.

However, I'm not quite clear on Nancy's point about the value of having USA citizens as well as Brits arrested? CNN, OK, but I was under the impression that Amnesty International's concerns would embrace not just American citizens. Please correct me if I'm wrong and, as regards the profile of the unfortunate event, it went viral across international news outlets in a very short time. International journalists from all over didn't seem to focus on the point that the retirees arrested were from the UK. - just on the scandal itself.

Actually, Nancy, it IS already at 'another level of bad', and it was, apparently, the military, not the police, who did the 'arresting of the elderly foreign retirees etc, etc'

On a lighter note, first I've heard that Americans have even heard of, let alone learned how to play, this strange game!

[NancyL]

Well, here in Chiang Mai, the Chiang Mai Bridge Club is one of the OGAs (Outside Group Activities) of the CM Expats Club and I hope that as president of that group I would have been notified of the military/police action soon after it started. I have private phone numbers for most of the foreign consuls and would have contacted them immediately. I don't think that elderly expats would have been detained for 12 hours here. If they had, the next round of calls would have been to Amnesty International Thailand and the the English language media reps in Thailand.

And, as I said in my earlier post -- no one should have signed something they didn't understand. That was just plain wrong advice. I read the blog post of the person caught up in the raid and it was so wrong, wrong, wrong. You should never plead guilty to something you didn't commit. Esp. for such a minor offense without talking to a proper lawyer -- ie. one you have hired, rather than a "friend of a friend".

[buddhalady]

'Those arrested were mainly British but included at least two Australians as well as Scandinavians and Americans' - taken from a just-read report in the Guardian newspaper. Someone should inform CNN immediately...

[harrry]

WIth respect to Nancy's abilities I somehow doubt that she could achieve what a Khun Ying seems to have had difficulty until reportedly she rang Member of Cabinet to speak ith the police.

It is not a nice situation and unfortunately it shows how foreigners are being looked at now. Not like some years ago.

It is reported that they even refused a couple of elderly ladies their medicine. Now that would have caused a fuss if someone had died in custody...or would it.

[northernjohn]

Yes Nancy its likely not a very nice thing for the elderly folk to go through. But it is highlighting to the rest of the world how Thailand is just so different.

People dont always take our word for it but when they see these things...one has to ask what the heck is going on.

Logic is not a big thing here and a lack of planning in most areas is plainly evident.

But then maybe those are Western traits?

Yes this episode is very bad for a lot of reasons, but I expect it wont be the last of them.

The ringmaster certainly wont be impressed by all the negative press, let alone having to watch his subordinates make yet another blunder.

Respect is earnt, not given.... and some areas in this country need a real good shake up before even their own people start to look up to them.

Cant see that happening too soon.

Well the whole thing is silly and that is why it is getting so much press. that being said I think the rest of the western world will just laugh at it.

On the positive side I think the government will be taking a closer look at what constitutes gambling. It is not really a big deal. Thailand has so many more things going for it that people will continue coming here to retire or work.