Bridge club in Chiang Mai?

[harrry]

Another thing is regarding the document in Thai they had to sign. My understanding with that is that it was an acknowledgement of the charges which had to be signed before bail. Not a confession. The same sort of thing that you have when a US cop makes you sign the ticket for a traffic infringement and if you do not you get arrested and charged with that to. In that caswe it is in English and it does not matter if you can only read thai.

THe whole thing though is not nice.

[heybruce]

Yes Nancy its likely not a very nice thing for the elderly folk to go through. But it is highlighting to the rest of the world how Thailand is just so different.

People dont always take our word for it but when they see these things...one has to ask what the heck is going on.

Logic is not a big thing here and a lack of planning in most areas is plainly evident.

But then maybe those are Western traits?

Yes this episode is very bad for a lot of reasons, but I expect it wont be the last of them.

The ringmaster certainly wont be impressed by all the negative press, let alone having to watch his subordinates make yet another blunder.

Respect is earnt, not given.... and some areas in this country need a real good shake up before even their own people start to look up to them.

Cant see that happening too soon.

"Respect is earnt, not given...."

Yeah, that's how it should work....

However in this country positions of responsibility are bought, not earned, which explains a lot.

I suspect in this case the order came down from on high to make a show of cracking down on illegal gambling (being careful not to inconvenience any of the "quality people" who might be involved in the activity), the police acted on information from a poorly vetted source, and the rest is history.

For most of us this case is amusing, and for the bridge players arrested it is an annoyance that will probably become a good story to tell. However this same kind of incompetence ruins the lives of people who are convenient fall guys when major crimes are committed and the police are under pressure to give the appearance of solving the crime.

This country needs a lot of work, and I don't think the "quality people" currently in charge are the right people to make the needed changes.

[Saan]

This kerffufle reminds me of an incident in North Queensland in Australia.

It was on ANZAC Day and after the dawn service by tradition the veterans and others would repair to the nearest pubs for an early drink and a game of two up. Also by tradition, the cops would turn a blind eye to these gatherings - out of hour drinking and gambling.

But the local copper, while a veteran, was a miserable bastard and decided to raid a hotel where these nefarious acts were taking place.

I was sitting inside with a beer in my hand when he burst in ready to charge everyone with all sorts of offences. As luck would have it sitting next to me was Keith Payne, another Vietnam vet who just happened to have been awarded the Victoria Cross, for my American cousins that is the equivalent of the Medal of Honor.

At least this cop realised he had boo booed and that arresting one of Australia's war heroes on ANZAC Day would cause large amounts of opprobrium to fall on his unworthy head. He made a hasty, red faced retreat.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Saan

[sappersrest]

Without sounding to dramatic would it not be a good idea to carry a lawyers card around with you , should you come across the BIB, both my wife and I always cary our lawyers phone no along with our driving license and insurance card.

Edited February 6, 2016 by sappersrest

[buddhalady]

Excellent idea - but how does one find a reputable lawyer here? Been here for years, but haven't managed that yet. although there's been no need so far!

[gk10002000]

Bridge, Gin Rummy, Pegging for points in Cribbage, Pitch or High Low Jack for those from the Northeast USA. All games I have played for decades here in the USA and never wagered a dime. Well played very little bridge. But the other games we just kept score. Just like playing monopoly or any other game. This infatuation with cards and associating them with some evil thing is just nutty

[anon467848]

I think if this had happened in Chiang Mai there would have been more than one bridge player who refused to sign a statement in a language she couldn't read. And in Chiang Mai, some Americans would have been arrested which would have increased the profile of this type of event up to the CNN and Amnesty International Level.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the humor in this type of event making the news and I think the various Thai gov't agencies that are encouraging foreigners to retire in Chiang Mai wouldn't have been amused either. It's bad enough to have Chiang Mai Immigration bullying seniors here. It would be an entire another level of bad for the police to be raiding the meetings of a private club to arrest elderly foreign retirees participating in a social event.

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

CM Expats Club next on list. You will all get charged for an illegal gathering, an offence under the current Junta.

Edited February 6, 2016 by merlin2002

[fcgprg]

It seems to me that the President of the CEC likes to keep poking tigers, I would suggest to her that this one will have a lot sharper teeth than the Immigration Dept. It would be better all round if the comments were a little less aggressive towards authority in this country .Especially when as farangs we do not have a lot of clout behind us.

we have already had one controversy with in the ex pats club ,do not try to start another one.

[NancyL]

It seems to me that the President of the CEC likes to keep poking tigers, I would suggest to her that this one will have a lot sharper teeth than the Immigration Dept. It would be better all round if the comments were a little less aggressive towards authority in this country .Especially when as farangs we do not have a lot of clout behind us.

we have already had one controversy with in the ex pats club ,do not try to start another one.

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

If asking questions like this are "poking the tiger", then perhaps the Thai government should stop spending millions of baht each year trying to encourage older foreigners to "long stay" in Thailand.

And since when is telling the elderly not to sign anything they can't read and understand "poking the tiger"?

Had you attended the Annual General Meeting of the CEC you would have heard an update of the "controversy" with Immigration from the Hon. British Consul who is heading a special task force with CM Immigration. Turns out the observations and reports from CEC were an important source of information for the local consular corp.

[TheCruncher]

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

Simple answer, they only want their money, and they can't go get it in their home country. So trick them to move here, then take their money and kick them out or make life horrible for them.

[uptheos]

Connect 4 carries 5 years in the slammer!

[Chiengmaijoe]

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

Simple answer, they only want their money, and they can't go get it in their home country. So trick them to move here, then take their money and kick them out or make life horrible for them.

Just exactly how did the Thai government trick anyone to move here? Examples please. My suspicion is that the first two words of your reply are truer than the rest of them combined. 'Cynical answer' would have been more appropriate.

Nancy, I've heard plenty people claiming that the government and it's agencies make it very difficult to stay here, retired or not, whilst I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they were encouraged to stay here (by the Thai government, anyway). I have also heard plenty of people comparing how difficult it is to stay here long term compared to some of Thailand's neighbours.

If the Chiang Mai immigration process was used as a yardstick, then I think most people would say the message is loud and clear, especially to those of us that had never heard of 90-day reporting until a few years ago, or queuing up at immigration before they had even opened the doors! What is the latest scheme to ease things along, something about your landlord and yourself having to fill in some forms to let them know where you're staying? TM something or other. I would have thought that the address on your visa application and 90 day reports would give them some sort of a clue, but apparently not.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Chiengmaijoe

[TheCruncher]

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

Simple answer, they only want their money, and they can't go get it in their home country. So trick them to move here, then take their money and kick them out or make life horrible for them.

Just exactly how did the Thai government trick anyone to move here? Examples please. My suspicion is that the first two words of your reply are truer than the rest of them combined. 'Cynical answer' would have been more appropriate.

Nancy, I've heard plenty people claiming that the government and it's agencies make it very difficult to stay here, retired or not, whilst I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they were encouraged to stay here (by the Thai government, anyway). I have also heard plenty of people comparing how difficult it is to stay here long term compared to some of Thailand's neighbours.

If the Chiang Mai immigration process was used as a yardstick, then I think most people would say the message is loud and clear, especially to those of us that had never heard of 90-day reporting until a few years ago, or queuing up at immigration before they had even opened the doors! What is the latest scheme to ease things along, something about your landlord and yourself having to fill in some forms to let them know where you're staying? TM something or other. I would have thought that the address on your visa application and 90 day reports would give them some sort of a clue, but apparently not.

I know reading is not your strongest talent, but the answer to your question was in Nancy's post, so try to read it again. Slowly this time.

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Another lovely article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/05/how-trumped-up-charges-led-thai-police-to-raid-expat-bridge-club

[TheAppletons]

It seems to me that the President of the CEC likes to keep poking tigers, I would suggest to her that this one will have a lot sharper teeth than the Immigration Dept. It would be better all round if the comments were a little less aggressive towards authority in this country .Especially when as farangs we do not have a lot of clout behind us.

we have already had one controversy with in the ex pats club ,do not try to start another one.

Some people always have an axe to grind, I see. Try taking the stick out of your to lighten up, huh?

Yes, we're all quaking in our flip flops that the Pattaya Police Department is going to come up to Chiang Mai because someone commented upon the absurdity of their (unfounded) actions.

There are now plenty of stories in the press detailing that the charges have been dropped, the victims' passports returned (yes, I said "victims"), and their bail money returned.

Comments and bad (international) press justified, it appears.

[fcgprg]

It seems to me that the President of the CEC likes to keep poking tigers, I would suggest to her that this one will have a lot sharper teeth than the Immigration Dept. It would be better all round if the comments were a little less aggressive towards authority in this country .Especially when as farangs we do not have a lot of clout behind us.

we have already had one controversy with in the ex pats club ,do not try to start another one.

Some people always have an axe to grind, I see. Try taking the stick out of your to lighten up, huh?

Yes, we're all quaking in our flip flops that the Pattaya Police Department is going to come up to Chiang Mai because someone commented upon the absurdity of their (unfounded) actions.

There are now plenty of stories in the press detailing that the charges have been dropped, the victims' passports returned (yes, I said "victims"), and their bail money returned.

Comments and bad (international) press justified, it appears.

I would think it as got very little to do with the foreign press. The person responsible for this in my opinion would be Khunying Chodchoy who is very well connected in Thailand.

[mydee]

Except that the bridge players acted on the advice of a lawyer so I don't see the value of that advice in this particular situation

Without sounding to dramatic would it not be a good idea to carry a lawyers card around with you , should you come across the BIB, both my wife and I always cary our lawyers phone no along with our driving license and insurance card.

[mydee]

In fact the Americans can lay claim to having invented the modern form of the game

Yes, it's wrong, very wrong, and gives cause for more concern about retirees' future security here.

However, I'm not quite clear on Nancy's point about the value of having USA citizens as well as Brits arrested? CNN, OK, but I was under the impression that Amnesty International's concerns would embrace not just American citizens. Please correct me if I'm wrong and, as regards the profile of the unfortunate event, it went viral across international news outlets in a very short time. International journalists from all over didn't seem to focus on the point that the retirees arrested were from the UK. - just on the scandal itself.

Actually, Nancy, it IS already at 'another level of bad', and it was, apparently, the military, not the police, who did the 'arresting of the elderly foreign retirees etc, etc'

On a lighter note, first I've heard that Americans have even heard of, let alone learned how to play, this strange game!

[buddhalady]

Not sure whether I'm allowed to post this link - refers to two major bridge tournaments held in Thailand last year....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Playing-bridge-has-special-exemption-under-Thai-la-30278706.html

[evenstevens]

It seems to me that the President of the CEC likes to keep poking tigers, I would suggest to her that this one will have a lot sharper teeth than the Immigration Dept. It would be better all round if the comments were a little less aggressive towards authority in this country .Especially when as farangs we do not have a lot of clout behind us.

we have already had one controversy with in the ex pats club ,do not try to start another one.

too true cobber

but take into consideration, that its from another planet, ,out in that galaxy somewhere

a very nippy morning to all

[iainiain101]

Another lovely article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/05/how-trumped-up-charges-led-thai-police-to-raid-expat-bridge-club

They would have been lucky to get a cold beer in the afternoon in Chiang Mai.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

Simple answer, they only want their money, and they can't go get it in their home country. So trick them to move here, then take their money and kick them out or make life horrible for them.

Just exactly how did the Thai government trick anyone to move here? Examples please. My suspicion is that the first two words of your reply are truer than the rest of them combined. 'Cynical answer' would have been more appropriate.

Nancy, I've heard plenty people claiming that the government and it's agencies make it very difficult to stay here, retired or not, whilst I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they were encouraged to stay here (by the Thai government, anyway). I have also heard plenty of people comparing how difficult it is to stay here long term compared to some of Thailand's neighbours.

If the Chiang Mai immigration process was used as a yardstick, then I think most people would say the message is loud and clear, especially to those of us that had never heard of 90-day reporting until a few years ago, or queuing up at immigration before they had even opened the doors! What is the latest scheme to ease things along, something about your landlord and yourself having to fill in some forms to let them know where you're staying? TM something or other. I would have thought that the address on your visa application and 90 day reports would give them some sort of a clue, but apparently not.

I know reading is not your strongest talent, but the answer to your question was in Nancy's post, so try to read it again. Slowly this time.

Why is it that various Thai government agencies spent millions of baht encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand while other Thai government agencies engage in acts that terrorize the elderly and frail retirees that are already here?

I happen to have an O-Level in English so your first point was incorrect. Two, actually!!

My question was how did the Thai government trick anyone, and your example is - Nancy said so, despite the fact that my second paragraph was disputing her comments anyway. Not the best of answers. I didn't see where Nancy mentioned trickery either. Her (disputed) point was that some agencies encourage foreigners to come here and others seem to discourage it, which is about inconsistency, not trickery, right?

[CMX]

I am really in no position to comprehend the degrees of thinking within the various branches of government here as they apply to us ex-pats, and I wonder that anyone among us can claim to be so. I am not at all sure that the "Bridge" arrests were anything worse than a lower-echelon confusion.

But it must be possible that our Immigration department in this city is set policy, not an incident.

Other matter might be assumed to be born of a degree of prudery - or what we Yanks might call puritanism, grown from a sense of strict right vs wrong morality. Thus closing the bar venues at midnight (which also can apply to dedicated Thai nighr owls).

Still, until we leave in financially weighty numbers, nothing much will change right now except from internal evolutions.

Any volunteers to depart? Not I just now, but my bridge game is horrible, horrible....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And one more.. This story keeps on giving: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/12145827/Thai-police-raid-on-British-run-bridge-club-endangers-tourism.html

The article contains a link to a very nice editorial in a Thai newspaper, too.

Edited February 9, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cmsally]

And one more.. This story keeps on giving: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/12145827/Thai-police-raid-on-British-run-bridge-club-endangers-tourism.html

Now we seem to know where the tip off came from !!

[CMX]

One of the things it is hard to accept is the huge gap in cultural understanding that must exist between the present government and western sensibilities.

However, I tend to forget that this is a 'developing' country. I cannot take issue with its folk, particularly as they have no say in all this.

I'm starting to wonder if the term 'political elite' does not always signify narrow fields of knowledge, intentionally clipped tight out of self interest. Japan's leadership in the late 30's, that of Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I can be bright but enormously ill informed - and love my righteousness. OK, Bush and his entourage.

Edited February 9, 2016 by CMX

[NancyL]

I caught up on the bridge news in the Pattaya forum and there are reports of at least two hits to the Thai economy has a result of this fiasco. One group of over 200 bridge players from The Netherlands cancelled a bridge tournament in a Phuket resort upon learning of the arrests and another group of 80 from Sweden cancelled their bridge tournament in Thailand, also.

Serious duplicate bridge players are big travelers. To me, the CM Bridge Club seems to do more travelling than the CEC's Travel Club.

I know people who have made a decision to retire in Thailand, in part, because of the good "bridge culture". The regional bridge clubs are very active and for a bridge playing retiree, living in Thailand is a good base to travel to tournaments and see the region.. This news isn't going to sit well with people considering future retirement to Thailand -- even if the people arrested to end up having their bail money and passports returned.

It's just not good PR to detain the elderly for 12 hours without access to their medications and proper food.

[harrry]

I caught up on the bridge news in the Pattaya forum and there are reports of at least two hits to the Thai economy has a result of this fiasco. One group of over 200 bridge players from The Netherlands cancelled a bridge tournament in a Phuket resort upon learning of the arrests and another group of 80 from Sweden cancelled their bridge tournament in Thailand, also.

Serious duplicate bridge players are big travelers. To me, the CM Bridge Club seems to do more travelling than the CEC's Travel Club.

I know people who have made a decision to retire in Thailand, in part, because of the good "bridge culture". The regional bridge clubs are very active and for a bridge playing retiree, living in Thailand is a good base to travel to tournaments and see the region.. This news isn't going to sit well with people considering future retirement to Thailand -- even if the people arrested to end up having their bail money and passports returned.

It's just not good PR to detain the elderly for 12 hours without access to their medications and proper food.

It's not good PR to detain ANYONE for 12 hours without access to their medications and proper food.