Army chief blasts redshirt leaders over charter draft referendum

[TKDfella]

We all have our opinions and I think we should regard other posts in the way, that is, we are not trying to get involved (as 'kingdratsab' implies). My concern would be the item on which the referendum is about and the Thai people who have the job of voting yes or no. In such an important document I have my doubts about certain regions of Thai people being able to read, digest and understand it let alone decide one way or the other. I have never been politically minded and I think I would expect my elected MP to make arrangements for constituents to attend meetings (or whatever) and have the document explained. Or perhaps the government to air the document over TV in an unbiased way or debated by politicians. Unfortunately, at the moment, Thai people don't have such options and I wonder if one or both sides are counting on that.

[waitforusalso]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

So, please tell me; Why does the Australian National University need to be biased for the red shirts or the Shinawatras?? "The College hosts the largest number of regional experts and specialist academic programs in the English-speaking world, and plays a vital role in informing public policy and Australia's intellectual engagement with the societies, cultures and economies of Asia and the Pacific"

And please tell me why you think the writer of the article is unqualified or biased. Khemthong Tongsakulrungruang is a constitutional law scholar, with a first degree honors from Chulalonkorn University.

Or maybe, we should consider you an expert. Mr. fascist supporting, keyboard warrior, with some yellow-shirted Thai they know spouting elitist BS in your gullible ear.

[jesimps]

Can you imagine? Young guys in uniform penetrating into red territories, going to villages and districts totally, forcefully, coloured in red, bringing information differing from the obligate UDD propaganda as only source, and you can't chase them away, can't use violence on them, because they wear a protective army uniform, absolutely not, can't let that happen, is it...?

(I don't say the information the cadets would bring would be unbiased, but I say the UDD's (des-)information is strongly biased, so, why not offer 'the people' some diversity in the biased stuff they get, for them to think(!) and, possibly(?) make a personal(!) choice, pro or con?)

Sorry, there are no cons allowed.

[facthailand]

Interesting ploy to use kids too young to vote!

[elgordo38]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from ruFromnning for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

Obviously you didn't witness what happened since 2014 in term of corruption :

Police? Na

Army?? Na

Administration? Na

Building Construction and Management? Na

What did they do so far?

Also this constitution is basically a way to make the army coups a legal tool and keep the existing establishment in place.

If only the people could see this for what it is...certainly not fight corruption

From what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from running for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

[englishoak]

The students wanted to tell the people what this charter draft intends to do, which is mainly about the cracking of corruption, he said.

No need to worry about that... they cracked corruption here a long time ago and have got rather good at it... no need to tell people what they already know.

Edited February 8, 2016 by englishoak

[jonclark]

#JAG. I suggest you re read my post. You clearly got the wrong end of the stick.

[heybruce]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

In other words--"But, but, but...Thaksin!"

No comment on the OP, right?

[heybruce]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

[sweatalot]

Hey army, you guys are supposed to be CARETAKERS until some new improved democracy is implemented. So keep your traps shut and stay in the barracks. Let the politicians of all stripes discuss the issues and people decide. Nah.... keep trying to keep a lid on it. One way or another it will blow up in your collective faces. Politics is always about conflict, different interests vying for power. Elections and such are like a pressure relief valve. I see little to no hope for the future of Thailand.

Who is going to "implement some new improved democracy"?

I don't see anybody who could have that power, except the shin gang. ptp and their mercenaries, the reds.

And they do have that power not because of verifiable and honorable political goals, or support by the masses

but because they are well funded by somebody whose goal never was the benefit of the people.

Does anybody believe they would use it for democracy (which is not the goal, Tak said) ?

Edited February 8, 2016 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from ruFromnning for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

Obviously you didn't witness what happened since 2014 in term of corruption :

Police? Na

Army?? Na

Administration? Na

Building Construction and Management? Na

What did they do so far?

Also this constitution is basically a way to make the army coups a legal tool and keep the existing establishment in place.

If only the people could see this for what it is...certainly not fight corruption

From what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from running for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

Can you please name some Thai politicians "worth their salt" who are running for ofice?

[sweatalot]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

[smedly]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from ruFromnning for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

Obviously you didn't witness what happened since 2014 in term of corruption :

Police? Na

Army?? Na

Administration? Na

Building Construction and Management? Na

What did they do so far?

Also this constitution is basically a way to make the army coups a legal tool and keep the existing establishment in place.

If only the people could see this for what it is...certainly not fight corruption

From what I can see this constitution will throw the fear of prosecution into any politician worth his salt and scare him away from running for office. After you remove all the good eggs from the basket only the rotten ones are left.

Can you please name some Thai politicians "worth their salt" who are running for ofice?

The same people have been in Thai politics for decades many of them already returning after 5 year bans and they keep resurfacing getting richer and richer, it would be great if the whole lot of them were banned for life, they have done nothing but theirve from the Thai people for years

[tbthailand]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

Calling them volunteers rather proves the old military maxim that "a volunteer is someone who didn't understand the question. "

the military students are not volunteers for this. That is a little piece of fiction invented by the general. It has been stated that these military students will be at the polling stations for the referendum as well... I guess just to make sure that there is "proper understanding" by the people before they vote.

People like the ALLSEEING-one-eyed poster also prove their complete ignorance of red shirt politics when they dismiss them as "paid to protest".

[tbthailand]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

and yours tops the lot, it is hard to figure how blind you and your cohorts are, the only explanation I can think of is that you are somehow finacially involved and have something to lose if this government is successful in cutting the corrupt money supply to certain people, we already know what has gone on in the past and who was primarily involved, what we don't know is how effective this new constitution will be at steering Thailand to a new and better future - so far it seems to be going in the right direction, and of course the people crying foul are those that have the most to lose - I find that hilariously funny

junta-huggers, gotta love 'em, ... they can't help themselves...

[bangrak]

Can you imagine? Young guys in uniform penetrating into red territories, going to villages and districts totally, forcefully, coloured in red, bringing information differing from the obligate UDD propaganda as only source, and you can't chase them away, can't use violence on them, because they wear a protective army uniform, absolutely not, can't let that happen, is it...?

(I don't say the information the cadets would bring would be unbiased, but I say the UDD's (des-)information is strongly biased, so, why not offer 'the people' some diversity in the biased stuff they get, for them to think(!) and, possibly(?) make a personal(!) choice, pro or con?)

Sorry, there are no cons allowed.

By the UDD's red militia in the areas they control, you mean, isn't it...?

[bangrak]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

Calling them volunteers rather proves the old military maxim that "a volunteer is someone who didn't understand the question. "

the military students are not volunteers for this. That is a little piece of fiction invented by the general. It has been stated that these military students will be at the polling stations for the referendum as well... I guess just to make sure that there is "proper understanding" by the people before they vote.

People like the ALLSEEING-one-eyed poster also prove their complete ignorance of red shirt politics when they dismiss them as "paid to protest".

'tbthailand', your first paragrah reads as a respectable personal opinion (I don't share with you). But the short sentence being the second one is pure negationism, alas, making you a part of the red propaganda machine.

How would YOU, personally, know whether army cadets are volunteers or not? I don't!

I do know though there is no such thing as individual freedom in the red villages and territories, don't you know that? Or are those all, real, 'volunteers'...?

[oldsailor35]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

Are you trying to say that you are quite confident that the average Thai 17 yr old has enough experience and education 'under his/her belt' to be capable of educating the population.

Are you also trying to convince us that the Reds alone physically attacked anyone that disagrees with them. If so, please tell us who refused to allow anyone to vote in the previous election, actually beating up those who tried to do so.

Its all very well having an opinion, but downright stupid lies and semi illiterate misunderstanding of the situation as it actually happened, just to attempt to sway others to follow your inclination, is no excuse for stupidity.

[oldsailor35]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

ERE we go again. The ole "Shin in the wardrobe syndrome" with this mentality, Thailand will never get on its feet. HE IS GONE ! did'nt you know that !

[oldsailor35]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

Calling them volunteers rather proves the old military maxim that "a volunteer is someone who didn't understand the question. "

As an ex serviceman, just love it !

[oldsailor35]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

So you are apposed to any reconciliation ? You want hostilities to continue ?

Question: please define reconciliation in the current context.

- What would it look like?

- what would be the actions to achieve reconciliation?

etc...

Very good question. If anyone knows, please 'spill the beans' because that's where it's all got to start

[oldsailor35]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Send for Captain Suthep

[Balance]

So, what if groups with a different opinion about the charter also sent people to explain their viewpoint to the people? Is this allowed? If allowed, we would be seeing the first glimmer of what Democracy is about: the competition of competing ideas about something. If not, well not too good for the "return to Democracy" that the government keeps talking about.

[mrrizzla]

Smedly you are one of the great contributors in the Koh Tao threads. Surely that whole case is a microcosm to show that things haven't changed at all hear really.

[aussieinthailand]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

Same o'l drivel, the red area and never allowed the truth, In my experience I've seen plenty of red's preventing speeches' by yellows, and heckling, but not preventing truth or people not allowed to have a different opinion. But there is plenty of video/photo evidence of yellow's preventing people expressing their opinion, it's called an election, and now the junta are doing the same thing.

Question, those that are pushing the draft shouldn't they have a strong understanding of it?

I think encouraging people to vote is good, the problem is, Is there an subtle message of supporting the draft or is it only encouraging people to vote?

[graemeaylward]

Will these young "volunteers" be allowed to voice their own opinions of the draft charter, or do they have to toe the military party line? If a young cadet comes to the door to talk about the draft charter, why not invite them in and go through each point line by line with them, asking them to explain their views on it and why it is good! If you disagree with their point of you, give your reasons. I am sure that they won't call again as they probably haven't a clue about the finer points, or how to have a rational discussion, as they are not allowed to ask questions, either at school or in the cadet force!

[mmh8]

We need to settle this once and for all.

Both sides want corruption - how else will they get rich.

Both sides want immunity from prosecution for life, since they want cake and eating of it with fish sauce

the students are potentially free thinkers, they want everyone else to lift the veil and see that both sides are corrupt and a new choice is needed.

Result - well we'll have a bit of red, then yellow, then green then red, then yellow, oh at least 10 more cycles of stupidity.\

I say let China rule, they may as well, they can't do any worse than the current lot.

[mrrizzla]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

It takes willful ignorance in the extreme for people to believe this corrupt military will eliminate corruption. http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

However there are clearly posters who exercise such an extreme.

Ok you believe this "corrupt military" will not eliminate corruption.

Please tell me Who will? The reds?

Why do you have "corrupt military" in quotations like it is a stupid statement?

Did you miss the park scandal? Several generals running for the hills and then the military investigated themselves to SHOCK HORROR find that nothing dodgy had gone on

If it had been the someone PTP related doing that you'd be hear drooling on your keyboard with rage.

And no, I am not a red shirt. I just get sick of people refusing to look at the bigger picture and blaming the bogey man in Dubai for all Thailand's ills.

Edited February 9, 2016 by mrrizzla

[GeorgesAbitbol]

The most ardent junta supporters are getting increasingly more shrill as Uncle Too is furiously steering the Thaitanic right towards the iceberg, an iceberg that is in plain view of almost all except those with their heads so far up their rear ends they haven't see the light of day for years.

Smedy you are obviously blind and enjoy it.

If you believe one second this Junta will tackle corruption you're insane!

Please let me know what they have done so far against corruption?

The park in Hua Hin maybe?

Please let us know...

I bet you praised all those in the past who did the same for the best : Pinochet, Nicolae Ceaușescu, Caastro,... or simply ALL the coups before this one...

What a joke!

Edited February 9, 2016 by seedy
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[derator01]

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