Uninsured Brit in Phuket moped accident has left her parents with £35,000 credit card debts

[lvr181]

Too bad she had the accident....hope she fully recovers and soon. But she "didn't forget" to get insurance....she just didn't want to pay for insurance. Too many young people always feel indestructible/think it will not happen to me.

I feel for her and particularly her parents BUT she didn't learn much from accountancy - most accountants I know, have a good knowledge and awareness of insurance.

That was one tough but unnecessary lesson for her.

[stevenl]

If the motorbike she was riding pillion on was 'hit by a truck' might it be the Truck Drivers fault? Shouldn't the Trucks insurance pay for all medical bills?

Most truck in Thailand don't have insurance. Also the truck that hit me in the back in September had no insurance for over 10 years already. The truck was from 1976, license plate BKK 10-1809. I still see it driving up and down several times per week. Police don't do $#!t. The driver only has 1 leg and was shifting gears using his hand with a stick to press the clutch down. The other hand he is using to shift the gear. So at the moment of shifing gears, no hands on the wheel. Apparently it is cheaper getting pulled over several times per year by the BIB than paying for insurance and roadtax.

Surgery could not be done in a government hospital and in the police hospital there was a waiting list for arm surgery for over 6 months up to 9 months.

My insurance didn't pay a single bath because it was caused by a motorvehicle. 99% of all the medical insurances in Thailand don't cover accidents caused by motorvehicles. It clearly says in the small written terms (in Thai of course) There is no English translation of the valid terms of any insurance bought in Thailand. If there is one, it is not valid as the official terms must be written in Thai. My accident insurance I have seperately only paid out the max insurred 40,000 THB (50,000 THB when I would have died) what is a complete joke.

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"99% of all the medical insurances in Thailand don't cover accidents caused by motorvehicles. It clearly says in the small written terms (in Thai of course) There is no English translation of the valid terms of any insurance bought in Thailand."

Both claims are total nonsense.

[stevenl]

If the motorbike she was riding pillion on was 'hit by a truck' might it be the Truck Drivers fault? Shouldn't the Trucks insurance pay for all medical bills?

I was stopped at red traffic lights. Thai driver in toyota truck ran into the back of me, slamming me into car in front driven by Thais. My insurance had to pay for damage to car in front, my car BHT 140'000, police let car behind me go because he had no insurance and told me ......Mai pen lai you have insurance. What they really meant was Mai pen lai you Farang !

No, whgat they mean is what they said. That is the way it is sometimes.

[chrissables]

I'm always amused by the posters who claim that Thai hospitals fleece and rip-off foreign patients. These people must not have any experience with hospitals in countries without socialized medicine.

As an example, at a private hospital in the US, the bill for my wife's 90 minute visit to the emergency room came to $5,600USD (about 200,000 baht). The services she received consisted of 1 saline IV (charged at 150 x the wholesale cost), a couple of protein pills (charged at 10 x the cost at the pharmacy down the road), a blood test panel (charged at 3 x the cost for the same bloodwork at a local lab) and a 10 minute physician's consultation (flat $600).

Another time, she was quoted a $30,000USD (1 million baht) operating room / hospital fees, plus another $7,000 (250,000 baht) surgeon's fee for an outpatient procedure in the US. She ended up having the same procedure done at one of the best private hospitals in Bangkok for about $4,500USD (150,000 baht), including a 2 night stay.

Now tell me again how Thai hospitals are fleecing people.

Thai hospital do fleece people.

Your comparison is not correct in the sense of overheads in USA to here.

Also if a doctor / hospital is negligent in the states you have a good chance of suing them. Try that here!

[MaeJoMTB]

35k British pounds.

Hardly a life changing debt.

Not to mention, you don't have to repay credit card debt (in the UK)..... unless you want to.

[umbanda]

Too bad she had the accident....hope she fully recovers and soon. But she "didn't forget" to get insurance....she just didn't want to pay for insurance. Too many young people always feel indestructible/think it will not happen to me.

For a measly sum of money for peace of mind, i cant feel sorry for her owing so much money.. Dont like seeing people hurt, but when will they learn, after all they would be covered in their own home...

Folks, we must be a little more informed.

I used to own several travel agencies.

Travel insurers would pay us 40% commission.

So many times I made claims for people and by far the majority never got a cent.

The excuses that I heard from the insurers were unbelievable.

One reasonable sales rep even expressed to me the as a matter of course the first claim is refused automatically in the hope it will go away.

You are right. I got travel insurance only one time in my life. They even recuse to paid for a lost luggage. May be good for a VERY BIG case like this one hiring a lawyer to fight with them, but in small cases, probably you are right. They will recuse in every way possible, to see if you will give up.

[zoza]

I have never seen a 'moped' in Thailand. I've seen motorbikes but not the moped which is a motorized bicycle you can either pedal or use motor; thus 'mo ped'. Of course the standard European will continue to use 'moped' as they like to invent their own language. wiki-moped for a photo, mate

my mate can be seen most weeks on his moped going to soi buchouw market Tuesday and Friday

the moped looks near as old as him.

[Canuk23]

No excuse for not having insurance, ever since I started traveling

I always purchased insurance, I have never had an accident or

had the need for insurance but I still would not travel without it.

Common sense I think.

Nonetheless I hope she recovers and has learned a lesson !!!

[DrDave]

Thai hospital do fleece people.

Your comparison is not correct in the sense of overheads in USA to here.

Also if a doctor / hospital is negligent in the states you have a good chance of suing them. Try that here!

A significant part of a US hospital's overhead is due to patients who do not pay for services received. These costs are then shifted to those patients who do pay for services.

During my wife's ER visit, the place was packed with immigrant families using the hospital ER as a clinic for colds/flu/etc. These people are not turned away, and on the chance that Medicaid pays for part of their services, the remainder of the cost is passed to paying patients.

In addition, cash customers (patients with no insurance who self-pay) are charged substantially more than those with insurance for the same services in an attempt to recover margins lost to negotiated rates with insurance companies. For this particular hospital, I was never given the opportunity to pay the bill (or even see the charges) when my wife was released from the ER. The procedure these days is for the hospital to immediately turn the bill over to a third-party agency who is responsible for collection. This agency then tries to qualify the patient for government assistance, after requesting a full financial disclosure. After declining to provide a disclosure of assets (I just wanted to pay the bill), several months passed before I received a threatening notice from this agency saying that bill (which I had never seen) was being turned over to collections.

Long story short, after several months I finally received the bill for $5,600. A few days later, before I even had a chance to talk to the hospital about the bill, I received an amended bill for $1,700, which I promptly paid. So, based upon my experience of hospitals shifting the cost of indigent care to paying patients, inflating the bills of of self-pay patients, and using collection agencies to handle their billing, I stand by my comment that US hospitals are fleecing their self-paying customers.

As for medical malpractice, I probably have a better chance of being seriously injured of killed in a car accident every day, as opposed to encountering negligence in a hospital. The cost of malpractice insurance is what's driving many physicians out of practice, and those that remain are passing that cost along to their patients (another fleecing).

[sydneyjed]

My heart goes out to her parents who have taken on large mounting credit card depts in order to look after their daughter...It's always so wise after the event to say what she should and shouldn't have done but how can you reason with these young kids at this age..even the so called educated ones?She may have a degree in accountancy but common sense goes right out the window litterally as soon as they touch down and head out to the tropical islands...

Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with that but not having travel insurance is just so irresponsible and something that will impact on both her and her family for a very long time I suspect.

Another mistake many people make(not just backpackers)is the misconception that travel insurance covers them when they hire out a motorbike and believe that their car license is sufficent to satisfy travel insurance conditions...IT IS NOT!

You do actually have to have a motorcycle license in order to be covered when hiring one..otherwise you will find yourself in the same situation folks for anyone who doesn't already know!

[catman20]

that why young people come here to do things they would never do at home. No one forgets to take out travel insurance that was her choice not to take out insurance being a cheap Charlie and it back fired. She is 24 I feel sorry for her parents picking up such a huge bill for a 24 year old woman id like to see her take out a mortgage and repay her parents back. she should be ashamed of herself.

[Farang99]

The problem is the tourists... not Thailand.

Insurance? No.

Experience of riding? No

Protective gear? No.

Riding in an unsafe manner? Yes.

It's clear to see who is at fault.

It is not at all clear who is at fault. OK, she was uninsured - but so, probably, was the truck driver who ran into the back of the moped on which she was riding pillion. In any normal country she might have expected him to be responsible and have to pay her costs.

[catman20]

35k British pounds.

Hardly a life changing debt.

Not to mention, you don't have to repay credit card debt (in the UK)..... unless you want to.

are you serious ? do u know less than 5% of people in the UK have less than 5,000 pounds in the bank and you don't have to pay money back you borrow great morals.

Hope your never in trouble and need to borrow money as you would be the last person I would lend money to with your principles and attitude.

[tomyumchai]

theres an insurance policy in the UK called 24/7 GAP. it covers you up to 750cc on a bike and can last 12 months. i would have thought anyone going on a gap year holiday would google "gap year insurance" as normal policies only last a month. 24/7 gap comes up 1st in the search.....

........i guess in her case google wasnt her friend.....oh hum, that £84 saved probably went towards the bannana pancakes.....

[chrissables]

Thai hospital do fleece people.

Your comparison is not correct in the sense of overheads in USA to here.

Also if a doctor / hospital is negligent in the states you have a good chance of suing them. Try that here!

A significant part of a US hospital's overhead is due to patients who do not pay for services received. These costs are then shifted to those patients who do pay for services.

During my wife's ER visit, the place was packed with immigrant families using the hospital ER as a clinic for colds/flu/etc. These people are not turned away, and on the chance that Medicaid pays for part of their services, the remainder of the cost is passed to paying patients.

In addition, cash customers (patients with no insurance who self-pay) are charged substantially more than those with insurance for the same services in an attempt to recover margins lost to negotiated rates with insurance companies. For this particular hospital, I was never given the opportunity to pay the bill (or even see the charges) when my wife was released from the ER. The procedure these days is for the hospital to immediately turn the bill over to a third-party agency who is responsible for collection. This agency then tries to qualify the patient for government assistance, after requesting a full financial disclosure. After declining to provide a disclosure of assets (I just wanted to pay the bill), several months passed before I received a threatening notice from this agency saying that bill (which I had never seen) was being turned over to collections.

Long story short, after several months I finally received the bill for $5,600. A few days later, before I even had a chance to talk to the hospital about the bill, I received an amended bill for $1,700, which I promptly paid. So, based upon my experience of hospitals shifting the cost of indigent care to paying patients, inflating the bills of of self-pay patients, and using collection agencies to handle their billing, I stand by my comment that US hospitals are fleecing their self-paying customers.

As for medical malpractice, I probably have a better chance of being seriously injured of killed in a car accident every day, as opposed to encountering negligence in a hospital. The cost of malpractice insurance is what's driving many physicians out of practice, and those that remain are passing that cost along to their patients (another fleecing).

I lost 700,000 baht and an eye here with no recourse and in fact the doctor shouting at me because i brought to the hospital managements attention.

So maybe we can agree hospitals in general are there to fleece people.

[tomyumchai]

35k British pounds.

Hardly a life changing debt.

Not to mention, you don't have to repay credit card debt (in the UK)..... unless you want to.

are you serious ? do u know less than 5% of people in the UK have less than 5,000 pounds in the bank and you don't have to pay money back you borrow great morals.

Hope your never in trouble and need to borrow money as you would be the last person I would lend money to with your principles and attitude.

sounds like the perfect punter to lend money to in thailand........i look forward to seizing your security for non payment

[chrissables]

that why young people come here to do things they would never do at home. No one forgets to take out travel insurance that was her choice not to take out insurance being a cheap Charlie and it back fired. She is 24 I feel sorry for her parents picking up such a huge bill for a 24 year old woman id like to see her take out a mortgage and repay her parents back. she should be ashamed of herself.

It is you sir who should be ashamed. As she was the innocent party in this incident.

She was a passenger on a bike that was hit from behind. The driver who hit her along with yourself should be ashamed.

[cumgranosalum]

People who have "been" to Thai hospitals and think they have an idea of what they are really like are just showing how poor their critical processes are.

You can't tell what a hospital is like as a single patient from a hospital bed.

however if you take the time to read up and do a bit of research, you will get some idea of the overall picture....and it isn't good; poor training, suspect ethics, lack of answerability and corruption are all present in the system.........the Thai health industry is a disorganised lottery with the odds stacked against the patient.

Ask yourself - how can a country that claims to be a "hub" for healthcare not even have a proper centralised ambulance system?

(and what kind of idiot piuts speed bumps across the entrance of their A&E dept?????)

Edited February 11, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[nontabury]

If the motorbike she was riding pillion on was 'hit by a truck' might it be the Truck Drivers fault? Shouldn't the Trucks insurance pay for all medical bills?

I was stopped at red traffic lights. Thai driver in toyota truck ran into the back of me, slamming me into car in front driven by Thais. My insurance had to pay for damage to car in front, my car BHT 140'000, police let car behind me go because he had no insurance and told me ......Mai pen lai you have insurance. What they really meant was Mai pen lai you Farang !

No, whgat they mean is what they said. That is the way it is sometimes.

So that makes it OK?

[stevenl]

If the motorbike she was riding pillion on was 'hit by a truck' might it be the Truck Drivers fault? Shouldn't the Trucks insurance pay for all medical bills?

I was stopped at red traffic lights. Thai driver in toyota truck ran into the back of me, slamming me into car in front driven by Thais. My insurance had to pay for damage to car in front, my car BHT 140'000, police let car behind me go because he had no insurance and told me ......Mai pen lai you have insurance. What they really meant was Mai pen lai you Farang !

No, whgat they mean is what they said. That is the way it is sometimes.

So that makes it OK?

Why don't you start a new thread about that if that's what you want to discuss.

[Chongalulu]

Dear Mrs Mother of Ms Natasha, I hope you'll never read this forum.

y

Perhaps if she had ,she'd have ensured her daughter took out insurance,didn't get on a motorcycle (which would have invalidated it) or maybe even chosen a different destination altogether.

Hit from behind sounds very much like the truck drivers fault. I am heartily sick of hearing of these kind of stories and witnessing the irresponsible sub moronic IQ driving here every day,because the latter is exactly what it is.

[MyFriend You]

Good price. What company?

Certainly not CIGNA UK, they want $280 per month not including Evacuation costs. But I willingly paid it for a while after reading the horror stories here in TVF. I am looking for another company now for both Thailand and Vietnam. Any suggestions??

[MaeJoMTB]

35k British pounds.

Hardly a life changing debt.

Not to mention, you don't have to repay credit card debt (in the UK)..... unless you want to.

are you serious ? do u know less than 5% of people in the UK have less than 5,000 pounds in the bank and you don't have to pay money back you borrow great morals.

Banks and governments don't feel the need to repay debts, I take my morality lessons from them.

God save me from western working class morality, it's a scam by the rich on the poor.

[MaeJoMTB]

Good price. What company?

Certainly not CIGNA UK, they want $280 per month not including Evacuation costs. But I willingly paid it for a while after reading the horror stories here in TVF. I am looking for another company now for both Thailand and Vietnam. Any suggestions??

You could try here,

https://www.worldnomads.com/

But their policy cost varies wildly depending on your country of origin.

A 1 year $500AUS policy for an Australian, cost 500GBP for a Brit (x2).

[johncat1]

Mopeds are motorized bicycles that you have to pedal to get started, and as far as I know they do not have any in Thailand. They probably mean low powered motorcycle as ridden by most Thais

[MaeJoMTB]

People who have "been" to Thai hospitals and think they have an idea of what they are really like are just showing how poor their critical processes are.

I'm part of a family of 5, with extended numbers of Thai relatives and foreigner friends.

We've had babies, m/c accidents, strep infections under the skin, dengue, brain parasites, fevers, breaks, liver cancer, appendicitis, gall bladder infections, breast cancer, stitches, diabetes, high blood pressure, Esophageal cancer, cosmetic surgery, and more between us, once or multiple times.

(about 20-30 visits from my immediate family, maybe 100 visits in all, covering 5-10 different hospitals)

The government hospitals have been generally great, lot of waiting, wards aren't comfortable, but the medical treatment all first class.

On the other hand, the private hospitals have generally been way overpriced, incompetent and in some cases death was the result.

Edited February 11, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[Walter Travolta]

" Forgetting to take out travel insurance prior to her trip '..... No, not forgetting, wanting to save

a $100 or thinking that, nothing will happened TO ME... what an expensive trip it turned out

to be.. would anyone learn anything from it? I doubt it very much.....

I must admit that I am guilty of not being insured. I don't have a flippant attitude, I simply do not do anything that could cause me injury like riding a motorbike or jet skiing. Maybe she thought like me but all it takes is a mistake by someone else and BANG!! That's it!! Poor girl. This report alone has convinced me to be insured from here on in.

[Walter Travolta]

" Forgetting to take out travel insurance prior to her trip '..... No, not forgetting, wanting to save

a $100 or thinking that, nothing will happened TO ME... what an expensive trip it turned out

to be.. would anyone learn anything from it? I doubt it very much.....

I must admit that I am guilty of not being insured. I don't have a flippant attitude, I simply do not do anything that could cause me injury like riding a motorbike or jet skiing. Maybe she thought like me but all it takes is a mistake by someone else and BANG!! That's it!! Poor girl. This report alone has convinced me to be insured from here on in.

[LivinginKata]

Mopeds are motorized bicycles that you have to pedal to get started, and as far as I know they do not have any in Thailand. They probably mean low powered motorcycle as ridden by most Thais

Moped are usually only 50 cc and with pedals. Never seen those in Thailand. Doubt they are made anywhere these days.

Sorry mods - off topic ....

[NamKangMan]

" Forgetting to take out travel insurance prior to her trip '..... No, not forgetting, wanting to save

a $100 or thinking that, nothing will happened TO ME... what an expensive trip it turned out

to be.. would anyone learn anything from it? I doubt it very much.....

I must admit that I am guilty of not being insured. I don't have a flippant attitude, I simply do not do anything that could cause me injury like riding a motorbike or jet skiing. Maybe she thought like me but all it takes is a mistake by someone else and BANG!! That's it!! Poor girl. This report alone has convinced me to be insured from here on in.

"I simply do not do anything that could cause me injury like riding a motorbike or jet skiing." - you don't have to be caused and injury whilst performing an activity to be banged up by medical bills here.

What if you have a stroke or heart attack?

What about a slip and fall and you break a hip?

What about being assaulted?

The list of sudden and severe medical conditions is endless, and they do not involve the dangers of living in Thailand, as they could happen to you anywhere. Eg. appendicitis.

"This report alone has convinced me to be insured from here on in." - good idea.