Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[PeaceBlondie]

That is a good price for a preparation course for the 4 tests. It surely beat the competition in Bangkok!

[culicine]

That is a good price for a preparation course for the 4 tests. It surely beat the competition in Bangkok!

I think that is the cost to actually do the exams, not the course:) 1000Baht per exam. On the other website it is reported that of the 22 first to sit the exam, noone passed all four exams! Doesn;t look promising...

[Petch01]

Heard a rumour that Chaing Mai Rajabaht are offering the 4 Teacher Proficiency Tests on April 4th for 4k THB. This is around the same time that teachers eligible to take the test will be on their summer hols sitting on a beach on one of the islands 800kms away.

As you already wrote, it's a rumour. Well, its a real rumour because the TCT will announce the test-takers names and test venues prior the 26th March 2008. The application runs from 20 February until 13 March. For the tests in December 2007, the venue in Chiang Mai was Yupparajwittayalai School with only one foreign test-taker. In December 2007, the time between the announcement and test day was one month.

Petch01

[bobbob1001]

Dont know if this helps, but a Filipino Teacher at my School arranged for myself and some other Teachers to do a 3 Day Thai Seminar, apparently we sit and listen to some stuff about Thai Culture and then get a Certificate, this is then sent to Bangkok and we get our Permanant Teachers Licence.

I should mention I have my Bachelor of Education, those with Degree's in other subjects get a Tempory Licence and have to take a test to get their Perm Licence.

we are paying 3000 Baht each for this.

Edited March 1, 2008 by bobbob1001

[Petch01]

Dont know if this helps, but a Filipino Teacher at my School arranged for myself and some other Teachers to do a 3 Day Thai Seminar, apparently we sit and listen to some stuff about Thai Culture and then get a Certificate, this is then sent to Bangkok and we get our Permanant Teachers Licence.

I should mention I have my Bachelor of Education, those with Degree's in other subjects get a Tempory Licence and have to take a test to get their Perm Licence.

we are paying 3000 Baht each for this.

First of all, bobbob1001, welcome at thaivisa.com, Teaching in Thailand Forum .

Thanks for your information, bobbob1001.

Those with a B.Ed., only have to do the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course. After receiving the certificate they can apply for a Teacher License from the Teachers' Council of Thailand. If granted they will receive a license valid for five years. Temporary licenses are valid for two years. Strictly taken, the temporary license only exists for Thai applicants. There are requirements set for this license. A temporary teacher license for foreigners has yet to be established. Reports are that temporary licenses are issued only to give the applicant more time to meet the requirements.

Paying 3,000 THB each, for the course is a bargain. Other members at this forum report 4,000 THB - 8,000 THB.

Currently, a Perm license is not issued by the Teachers' Council of Thailand. If teachers want to apply for this license, teachers should report to The Thai Chamber of Commerce & Board of Trade of Thailand. Their website can be found here: http://www.thaiechamber.com/cms/index.jsp

Petch01

Edited March 1, 2008 by Petch01

[PeaceBlondie]

Petch, how does a teacher in Outer Ubok know that an offered course is approved by TCT? Can he call an English speaking officer at the TCT and be certain he is paying for an approved course?

My question applies both to the Thai Culture course and to the longer, professional pedagogy course.

[otherstuff1957]

A couple of months ago my wife had a long chat with the folks at the TCT. It took her about a dozen phone calls to several different phone numbers before she found anyone who could talk to her about requirements for foreign teachers.

Among the other pearls of wisdom he dispensed was the fact that no-one at the TCT speaks English.

[Petch01]

Petch, how does a teacher in Outer Ubok know that an offered course is approved by TCT? Can he call an English speaking officer at the TCT and be certain he is paying for an approved course?

My question applies both to the Thai Culture course and to the longer, professional pedagogy course.

That's a problem, PB. Currently TCT is promoting the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course from Suan Dusit Rajabhat, Bangkok. http://www.ksp.or.th/upload/301/files/1631-3779.pdf. TCT isn't promoting any Graduate Diploma in the Teaching Profession course.

In May 2007 our school asked the teachers to do the TLCE-course at Rajabhat Phetchaburi. The initial request came from the Phetchaburi Service Area of the Ministry of Education. The course became canceled. Finally we did it at Chandrakasem Rajabaht, Bangkok in October 2007.

The Teachers' Council of Thailand has yet to publish a list of accredited Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course-providers. This applies also to the Graduate Diploma in the Teaching Profession-providers. The latter is the 8 months part-time course.

I only can advise that teachers shouldn't shop for a course themselves. Let the school or the Service Area of the Ministry of Education tell or advice where the teachers have to do it. If things would go wrong related to the TCT accreditation, those parties have to take responsibility.

Petch01

[culicine]

If we have the prerequisites for the new TL, can we apply for it anytime (even halfway though our current TL and WP? Or should we wait until the current, old, TL expires?

[Petch01]

If we have the prerequisites for the new TL, can we apply for it anytime (even halfway though our current TL and WP? Or should we wait until the current, old, TL expires?

You can apply for the teacher license from the Teachers' Council of Thailand when ever you want. In the past we applied for a teacher license/ teaching permission at the Ministry of Education (HQ or Service Area) when we already secured a job. The teacher license/ teaching permission was tied to the school where you were going to work (upcountry: fully, Bangkok: partly).

That's the big difference with the teacher license from the TCT. It's not related to any school.

If I have time tomorrow, I will scan the teacher license application forms and will post them on this forum.

Petch01

[PeaceBlondie]

One more thing for clarification, please:

The largest native English speaking country does not have a pgce or whatever you call it. Since the Education Ministry seems to have been colonized by Brits (not that there's anything wrong with that) could you please translate these post graduate whatchamacallits into American for us? Most professional educators in most states (except Texas) get a B.Ed. I could go back to 50 states and get certified (having earned a BA not in education) as a prof. teacher in a year or two, part time. But it would not be called PGCE or B.Ed; not sure if the paper even has a title.. Also, we Yankees do not know the difference between a certificate and a diploma, as that applies to degrees or pieces of paper awarded after the BA/BS/BEd. I did hear, years ago, of an Ed.S. degree (something like that) which came after the M.Ed. and before the D.Ed.

To avoid confusion, can we limit most of the answers to this set of questions, as it relates only to Thailand? In other words, if the TCT does not even have a name for it, never mind, more or less. Thanks.

[garro]

PB, I will try and translate to American for you

-a certificate is lower than a diploma

- a dipoma is lower than a degree (if it's a Higher National Diploma) it is worth 2/3 of a degree.

- a degree is, well a degree

After you have your degree you are a graduate and can complete postgradute courses such as'

- Post Graduate Certificate (e.g. PGCE or Post Graduate Certificate in Education) which is worth about 1/2 a master's degree.

- Post Graduate Diploma is worth about 2/3 of a master's degree.

- Master's degree

I hope that helps

[Xangsamhua]

One more thing for clarification, please:

The largest native English speaking country does not have a pgce or whatever you call it. Since the Education Ministry seems to have been colonized by Brits (not that there's anything wrong with that) could you please translate these post graduate whatchamacallits into American for us? Most professional educators in most states (except Texas) get a B.Ed. I could go back to 50 states and get certified (having earned a BA not in education) as a prof. teacher in a year or two, part time. But it would not be called PGCE or B.Ed; not sure if the paper even has a title.. Also, we Yankees do not know the difference between a certificate and a diploma, as that applies to degrees or pieces of paper awarded after the BA/BS/BEd. I did hear, years ago, of an Ed.S. degree (something like that) which came after the M.Ed. and before the D.Ed.

To avoid confusion, can we limit most of the answers to this set of questions, as it relates only to Thailand? In other words, if the TCT does not even have a name for it, never mind, more or less. Thanks.

Yes, it can be confusing. In Australia a postgraduate "certificate" is a one-semester full-time course or part-time equivalent. I understand the PGCE in Britain to be a one-year full time course. In Oz that would be a postgraduate "diploma". The PGCE qualifies a graduate in the UK for registration as a teacher. In Australia I think the one year post grad diploma in Education does the trick, but the reason I'm hesitant (I've been out of the country for six years) is that around 2000 this course was extended to two years, but has subsequently been reduced to one again. (See, it's not just the Thais who chop and change.)

[Petch01]

One more thing for clarification, please:

The largest native English speaking country does not have a pgce or whatever you call it. Since the Education Ministry seems to have been colonized by Brits (not that there's anything wrong with that) could you please translate these post graduate whatchamacallits into American for us? Most professional educators in most states (except Texas) get a B.Ed. I could go back to 50 states and get certified (having earned a BA not in education) as a prof. teacher in a year or two, part time. But it would not be called PGCE or B.Ed; not sure if the paper even has a title.. Also, we Yankees do not know the difference between a certificate and a diploma, as that applies to degrees or pieces of paper awarded after the BA/BS/BEd. I did hear, years ago, of an Ed.S. degree (something like that) which came after the M.Ed. and before the D.Ed.

To avoid confusion, can we limit most of the answers to this set of questions, as it relates only to Thailand? In other words, if the TCT does not even have a name for it, never mind, more or less. Thanks.

PeaceBlondie,

You are right. Forgive me my one-sided approach regarding education. Apologise.

The Teachers'Council of Thailand writes in their official documents:

- Education Degree

- Other degrees with a foreign license to practice the teaching profession

- Other degrees with a graduate diploma in education taking at least one year of study.

Having one of mentioned educations exempts you from taking the TCT Teaching Profession Knowledge Test. Not from the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course.

I hope it's more clear now.

Petch01

[wangsuda]

One more thing for clarification, please:

The largest native English speaking country does not have a pgce or whatever you call it. Since the Education Ministry seems to have been colonized by Brits (not that there's anything wrong with that) could you please translate these post graduate whatchamacallits into American for us? Most professional educators in most states (except Texas) get a B.Ed.

No they don't. B.Ed's are kind of worthless, since they don't specialize you in a subject. Most professional American educators first get a bachelor's degree in their chosen subject, and then spend one year post-baccalaureate study to earn a teaching credential. After that, the prospective teacher spends two semesters doing student teaching and then earns his or her's particular state's credential. It's at this point that many teachers make a choice: they can get a master's in their subject and thus become a well-paid teacher, or they can get a master's in education and go into administration. There are exceptions to this, of course. I do know that te state of Nevada is hurting for teachers, to the Nevada State University system offers a bachelor's in elementary education and one in secondary education. These degrees are specifically designed to get people in Nevada classrooms. They aren't much good anywhere else. Also, if one desires to be a multi-subject elementary teacher, then one can get a liberal arts degree, and then earn a multiple-subject teaching credential. At my university, that was the hardest program offered.

[mbkudu]

The Teachers'Council of Thailand writes in their official documents:

- Education Degree

- Other degrees with a foreign license to practice the teaching profession

- Other degrees with a graduate diploma in education taking at least one year of study.

Having one of mentioned educations exempts you from taking the TCT Teaching Profession Knowledge Test. Not from the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course.

I hope it's more clear now.

Petch01

From the above, it appears that a TEFL/CELTA certificate is not required. This is interesting because I recently contacted the company that I obtained my certificate from, and they said: "A CELTA and a degree are required to obtain a work permit in Thailand." I asked about the culture course, and they said that it was only required for work at government schools and universities, but not private language schools. Now I am very confused.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Wangsuda, for the clarification. Maybe my daughter is getting old (42 last month). In a state that supposedly confers no B.Ed. degrees, she got a BA with a double major: education and science, with two summer schools and 8 semesters, which included only one semester of practice teaching. Later, an M.Ed. in administration, which she never applied.

So, typically a graduate with non-educational BA/BS would need one more year of academics in education, and two semesters of practice teaching, right? Even if I were younger, that would seem daunting.

Back on topic, the folks in Thailand will need to do a lot of studying IF THE TCT gets its way.

[wangsuda]

So, typically a graduate with non-educational BA/BS would need one more year of academics in education, and two semesters of practice teaching, right?

Generally yes, in order to earn a teaching credential. The credential is vital in obtaining a full-time position at maximum salary.

[TerryLH]

"Temporary licenses are valid for two years. Strictly taken, the temporary license only exists for Thai applicants. ... A temporary teacher license for foreigners has yet to be established."

I got my temp 2 year licence about two weeks ago.

Our office person went to the TC office in person. She came back with the temp licences. One app was denied because of not enough experience.

Thyere is talk of a culture course somewhere here in KK soon.

[Petch01]

I got my temp 2 year licence about two weeks ago.

Our office person went to the TC office in person. She came back with the temp licences. One app was denied because of not enough experience.

TerryLH,

Congratulations. Thanks for this update.

For the temporary Thai teacher license exists a definition. For the foreigners there isn't one. That's why I wrote "strictly taken". You have one now to give you two years time to meet the requirements or am I wrong?

Petch01

[mopenyang]

"One app was denied because of not enough experience."

That's interesting and not the first time I've seen it lately. Looks like brand new teachers may be finding it not so easy to just walk into a legal teaching gig if they don't have the required experience.

[garro]

What happens when a teacher's license is denied?

Can you reapply/appeal it?

What are those who are being denied doing about it?

[Loaded]

"One app was denied because of not enough experience."

That's interesting and not the first time I've seen it lately. Looks like brand new teachers may be finding it not so easy to just walk into a legal teaching gig if they don't have the required experience.

New teachers don't need - and can't obtain - a TL because they don't have the necessary 1 year experience. They can obtain the wp without the TL and only worry about the TL after 1 year when they extend their wp and visa

[culicine]

From the above, it appears that a TEFL/CELTA certificate is not required. This is interesting because I recently contacted the company that I obtained my certificate from, and they said: "A CELTA and a degree are required to obtain a work permit in Thailand." I asked about the culture course, and they said that it was only required for work at government schools and universities, but not private language schools. Now I am very confused.

Rubbish. A CELTA is not required to get a work permit (of course the companies running these courses would like you to believe that). I've had no problems getting a wp for the last 7 7 years without a TEFL certificate (though I teach maths anyway). A degree is required by law but it's well known teachers have been able to get the wp without even that. Things seem to be tightening up though.

[PeaceBlondie]

Interesting....I bumped into an old coworker this week. I doubt he has ever been legal, and I am not sure he could verify what experience he has. Luckily for him, his new boss was our director from years before, and would perhaps verify that he worked a year back in 2003-2004 (in fact, he only worked October through Feb). Do you suppose he would qualify by experience if he sang a few bars of "Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss"? However, he doesn't really have a degree, or else he left it at Lord Snotworth's mansion during the party for Cliff Richards...

[Petch01]

Culicine,

As promised the Teacher License application form.

TerryLH,

You can see that there isn't an application for a temporary license.

PeaceBlondie,

Your friend needs hard proof to qualifiy.

Stamp

[culicine]

Good stuff! Thanks for the documents. I wonder if I can still qualify under the first option as I was appointed before 2003.

[Unfaithful]

Well, in looking through my papers, I do not have my contracts from 2003, and I have lost contact with one of my employers, although I still have her mobile number, but she is a lazyarse who will not help me. I have spent the last two years tutoring (illegally), unsupervised, and I had hoped to squeeze into a job as ESL teacher at a second rate international school. Now I suspect that without a teaching license, that will not work. I make better money than some of my former mates. Why the heck should I get legal now? I am not one of the great unwashed, either.

[Petch01]

Heard a rumour that Chaing Mai Rajabaht are offering the 4 Teacher Proficiency Tests on April 4th for 4k THB. This is around the same time that teachers eligible to take the test will be on their summer hols sitting on a beach on one of the islands 800kms away.

The Test Centres for the TCT Professional Knowledge tests in April/May 2008 are:

1: Bangkok

2: Chiang Mai

3: Phitsanulok

4: Khon Kaen

5: Ubon Ratchathani

6: Suratthani

7: Songkha

Source: The Teachers' Council of Thailand

Petch01

[garro]

I'm still confused about the new requirements. I have just been offered a new job and worry about how smoothly the paperwork will go. Most of my previously employment is as a teaching volunteer. I did work about five years ago but can't count it as experience as I wasn't legit. I assume that the Teachers Council will consider me as a new teacher as I haven't had a license nor work permit previously. Is that correct?

I wanted to become legal and spent a lot of time and money (nearly half a million THB) improving my qualifications. I am now completing my Post Graduate Certificate in Education via distance learning. In my eagerness to get it complete I am taking it over 2 semesters. This will be less than a year. Reading what has been posted here it would seem that this qualification will not be worth much because it is less than a year. Is that correct?

Thanks

BTW, what do you do if you are refused a teacher's license?

Can you appeal or are you screwed