Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[PeaceBlondie]

I have no respect for the Teachers Council of Thailand, from what we have heard from them, their shills (which means paid, undercover supporters), or their employees. They have had years to formulate professional standards for foreign teachers, and have not told us where we can get the big course, or lots of other things. They have apparently stolen a test which they themselves do not understand and could not pass, and then modified it when everybody failed. They cannot tell us in simple English what to do with our careers, and I doubt they could tell withnail in P6 Thai.

But I may be being unfair. They are probably nice, polite, well-dressed ladies who make good som tam.

[01322521959]

I'm sorry if some sort of new crackdown has affected you; at the moment we have heard of at least one school where teachers whose degrees were already verified were being asked for them *again*, and there is huge new boilerplate about what makes it legal for teachers to teach. I am merging this query with our extremely long thread on the subject, where there is much to be confused about.

To answer your question, we would need to know much more: whether the school you're working for is private or public; elementary, secondary or tertiary; were you teaching TEFL or a subject; where were you in Thailand, etc. Otherwise there's no real way to tell you why this has happened (there are too many particular rules and exceptions).

"S"

In answer to yours, I was working in a public school in Bangkok, I have worked there for 10 years, I am afraid that it's proberbly my own stupid fault for not obtaining a TOFEL cert; at least over that period, I was teaching general English, conversation and so on, and dare I say it my school has lost someone who was dedicated, I got good results and here comes the shocker, was not in it for the big salary, having only earned 24000 baht per month. I spoke to my school again yesterday and they said only a degree in the education field is acceptable, can you clarify the minimum education level needed?

[PeaceBlondie]

I was working in a public school in Bangkok, I have worked there for 10 years, I am afraid that it's probably my own stupid fault for not obtaining a TOFEL cert; at least over that period, I was teaching general English, conversation and so on, and dare I say it my school has lost someone who was dedicated, I got good results and here comes the shocker, was not in it for the big salary, having only earned 24000 baht per month. I spoke to my school again yesterday and they said only a degree in the education field is acceptable, can you clarify the minimum education level needed?

As for a TEFL certificate, I doubt that was ever required. We cannot clarify the minimum education level needed; only the officers in your province can. It is extremely doubtful, however, that Bangkok schools could survive if a degree in the education field was the minimal level needed to work legally. Your school may be confused, or may be lying to you. Try to find a job elsewhere, I guess. Good luck.

[Ijustwannateach]

I was working in a public school in Bangkok, I have worked there for 10 years, I am afraid that it's probably my own stupid fault for not obtaining a TOFEL cert; at least over that period, I was teaching general English, conversation and so on, and dare I say it my school has lost someone who was dedicated, I got good results and here comes the shocker, was not in it for the big salary, having only earned 24000 baht per month. I spoke to my school again yesterday and they said only a degree in the education field is acceptable, can you clarify the minimum education level needed?

As for a TEFL certificate, I doubt that was ever required. We cannot clarify the minimum education level needed; only the officers in your province can. It is extremely doubtful, however, that Bangkok schools could survive if a degree in the education field was the minimal level needed to work legally. Your school may be confused, or may be lying to you. Try to find a job elsewhere, I guess. Good luck.

I agree. Your situation is not being widely reported at the moment, so it sounds like something specific to your school. If anything, public schools have more latitude to support employees without degrees than other types of schools.

[mrtoad]

I was working in a public school in Bangkok, I have worked there for 10 years, I am afraid that it's probably my own stupid fault for not obtaining a TOFEL cert; at least over that period, I was teaching general English, conversation and so on, and dare I say it my school has lost someone who was dedicated, I got good results and here comes the shocker, was not in it for the big salary, having only earned 24000 baht per month. I spoke to my school again yesterday and they said only a degree in the education field is acceptable, can you clarify the minimum education level needed?

As for a TEFL certificate, I doubt that was ever required. We cannot clarify the minimum education level needed; only the officers in your province can. It is extremely doubtful, however, that Bangkok schools could survive if a degree in the education field was the minimal level needed to work legally. Your school may be confused, or may be lying to you. Try to find a job elsewhere, I guess. Good luck.

Could it be another shill who is trying to push the TCT agenda? Sorry, I find this a little suspect.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yes, it does seem rather convenient, but we should give the benefit of the doubt- at least until I get a detailed IP analysis on a few recent posters here. It certainly doesn't seem to be a widely-reported pattern.

[PeaceBlondie]

If nothing else, this thread has educated our British friends in the American slang term "shill."

[mrtoad]

If nothing else, this thread has educated our British friends in the American slang term "shill."

[culicine]

It was my understanding, at least up until recently, that if the teacher does not have the teaching credits for the new TL, then the school can write a letter requesting permission to teach (at least up until some date, perhaps in 2009). It could be that a school who wants to get rid of a teacher can simply say that "you don't have the requisites, so we can't get you a work permit". But other postings seem to suggest no problems getting the visa and wp, so it seems that enforcement is quite haphazard. Hopefully the dust will settle soon so we can have a clearer picture of what's going on.

[otherstuff1957]

I'm in the process of getting legal at a new school. I was sent a memo which detailed the requirements:

1) BEd + Culture Class + 1 year experience OR

2) BA/BS + Culture Class + 1 year experience + 1 year Grad Ed work to be completed within the next two years

I gave them all of my paperwork (transcripts, Passport with current Visa, old TL's from the past three years) & I'm rushing out to get pictures and a health certificate today. They said that I should be getting my 'you can teach for two years' letter from the TCT in a few days and then they will apply for a WP & get my Visa extended. Curiously enough, although they list the Culture Class in the general memo to all the teachers, they didn't say anything about it to me personally. I am basically submitting the exact same paperwork that I have submitted in previous years.

[TEFLMike]

Hi all,

I had trouble accessing this page/post. I am am sorry I have located it. Is there a better way to earn money Thailand, and spare us the problems and the headaches, that are following us around? Maybe taking up a corner of a Soi playing a ?

On a more serious note, I have a horror story to tell. HINT: Take a 30 hour return bus ride to Suratthani, only to find out that there is no available position at the school, in the first instance? TIT

[PeaceBlondie]

Mike, I sympathize with your long trip where there was no position. Sometimes the program coordinator desperately needs a qualified teacher, but does not know how to find or select one. Or she finds a good candidate, and her boss wants to hire an unqualified candidate, or for 8,000 baht less, or for 8 hours more of classes per week. This is not the most rewarding occupation (some say it is not even a profession), and Thailand seems to be the sweaty armpit of TEFL work.

[meme]

Does anyone know where I could find out when and where Thai culture courses are being offered by the TCT?

I live in the South and have heard rumors that they will be held in July in Nakhon Si Thammarat.

It would be nice to have a list of dates, times and locations of all courses throughout Thailand, although I am not holding my breath

[cluezo]

Does anyone know where I could find out when and where Thai culture courses are being offered by the TCT?

I live in the South and have heard rumors that they will be held in July in Nakhon Si Thammarat.

It would be nice to have a list of dates, times and locations of all courses throughout Thailand, although I am not holding my breath

I wouldn't even worry about it.

[meme]

Does anyone know where I could find out when and where Thai culture courses are being offered by the TCT?

I live in the South and have heard rumors that they will be held in July in Nakhon Si Thammarat.

It would be nice to have a list of dates, times and locations of all courses throughout Thailand, although I am not holding my breath

I wouldn't even worry about it.

The only reason I am(worried about it), is because my school is going to try to make me take it over the long weekend in July. If I can find other dates I can try and do it at another time.

[Xangsamhua]

One of our ex-teachers has done this course and a current teacher is doing it now.

It's run by Bansomdejchaophraya Rajaphat University (BSRU) in Thonburi. It cost about 8000 baht and takes a few months (I'm not completely clear as I'm relying on information from my colleague who's a little unclear herself). It's largely self-managed apart from an introductory day at the university. You just get the notes and send in the assignments. Your practical teaching assessment is done by video I think. It satisfies requirements for the teacher licence (assuming one has the requirements to enter the course - a degree in something, I suppose), but presumably would have no weight outside the local context.

The coordinator is Dr Areewan Iamsa-ard. She is a real person (see http://www.academiae.biz/EEProgram/MyPhilosophy.asp) but she only responds to email when there's enough candidates to statrt a new course. Her email address is [email protected]

I hope this is helpful. I've spoken to her on the phone, but she prefers email, even if she doesn't answer it right away.

The information above is correct as far as I can tell, but it seems a very loose arrangement. For example, my colleague doesn't remember filling out an application form. I would think that interested persons should send Dr Areewan their basic personal details and qualifications and that should do for a start.

Is anyone actually doing this course at the moment or heard from the university about upcoming courses? I spoke to a teacher this morning who finished it earlier this year and it does lead to licensing. We have two who've done it for this purpose. It seems, though, that there is no response to emails and it's best to go out there to make any inquiries.

[Xangsamhua]

Sorry, I posted this question in one of the pinned threads (as a reply to an earlier posting of my own ) , but it was a bit out of place there.

I want to know if anyone is actually doing the Bansomdej Rajapat University teacher accreditation course (forgotten the exact name of it) run by Dr Areewan, or if anyone knows of someone who's currently doing it.

I'm interested in this course as we've had three teachers who've done it recently and been licensed as a result. It seems that emails don't get answered (mine early this year weren't) until a course has enough people and is able to begin, but a visit to the university may be effective. The people who did it recently were quite happy with the course and the outcome (teacher licence).

If the course is continuing it sounds worthwhile.

Xangsamhua

[mjochim]

I've been told this course will be offered in Karon, Phuket, during the long Buddhist holiday in July. But that came from someone outside of the school at which I work.

[TEFLMike]

Hi ,

Could you please PM me with all the basic details please? Appreciated.

In return I will allow you my Primary Email address.

Mike

[Ijustwannateach]

Moved to the Culture Course Thread.

[Ijustwannateach]

Moved to the TCT Course Thread.

[marshbags]

Bangkok Post, Perspective, Sunday June 29, 2008

GUEST COLUMN / EDUCATION

A POLITE MANIFESTO

Educator and writer JASON ALAVI has prepared a list of points for the consideration of the Ministry of Education regarding the new requirements for foreign teachers in Thailand

The Thai Ministry of Education (MOE) has announced new licensing rules for foreign teachers, consisting of two main requirements: Attendance for all teachers to a 20-hour "Thai Culture, Language, and Professional Ethics Training Programme" (at a cost of anywhere from 3,000 to 8,000 baht), and successful completion of a "Teacher Professional Licensing Course." This full-year, 30-credit class is required for all teachers currently not holding a Bachelor's of Education degree. The cost for the course averages 60,000 baht. However, teachers are required only to pass a final written examination based on the course content (the exam fee is 4,000 baht).

The pending changes have generated some talk of possible foreign teacher shortages in Thailand due to financial and time constraints restricting the ability of teachers to comply with the requirements. For example, the high cost of comprehensive international health insurance, which most schools do not provide, currently challenges the justification for some now teaching in Thailand. Many teachers work outside of their primary employment in order to meet hidden costs such as these.

In response to the new regulations, a small consortium of foreigners currently working in Thailand are attempting here to politely and respectfully ask the ministry to consider the following four points.

Unquote

Ref url for the rest of the article :-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/290608_Perspect...008_pers008.php

I saw this earlier and as it hasn,t been posted and possibly missed, thought i,d do in case it is informative / helpful

Apologies in advance if it,s been posted elsewhere

marshbags

[garro]

It is what comes later in the article that I find interesting.

Who is this consortium?

A masters in lieu of a Degree in Education?

Ajarn.com is the best source of information about teaching in Thailand? My arse.

Edited June 29, 2008 by garro

[Scott]

I saw the article and found it interesting. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but it was nice to see it make it into the paper.

At some point the country is going to have to decide what it wants. If it wants inexpensive English lessons, then it will have to settle for less qualified people. I am afraid that if they want the B.Ed. then they are going to have to drastically change the salary scale and probably carefully look at the working conditions.

I often wonder if anyone ever thinks about the consequences of their action (in the gov't, I mean).

[KhaoNiaw]

Do British universities give transcripts these days?

[marshbags]

I saw the article and found it interesting. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but it was nice to see it make it into the paper.

At some point the country is going to have to decide what it wants. If it wants inexpensive English lessons, then it will have to settle for less qualified people. I am afraid that if they want the B.Ed. then they are going to have to drastically change the salary scale and probably carefully look at the working conditions.

I often wonder if anyone ever thinks about the consequences of their action (in the gov't, I mean).

As a concerned parent........................

My daughter has just given me her homework books to sign.

Ref. her English homework book.

The English examples laid out to be completed with one word are attrocious grammar wise.

Like Thai style English conversation on paper.

The English teacher has spent 5 years in India and is now teaching the subject to M.3 students.

As usual my daughter got a bit upset when i commented on this as she thought initially i was having a go at her.

I said let,s wait and see if she marks you down on the points i highlighted to her ????????

Come test time in the past this has been the case every time.

I,ve met the teacher in person prior to the term starting and i casually metioned about the converstional side and grammar that is wrongly taught.

She made a point of telling me ( Nay boasting ) about her 5 years teaching English in India and her students would have no such problems.

Yes in India

When will they learn to appreciate the skills of fully qualified, native English tutors, hire them, and pay the going rate they deserve accordingly.

marshbags

P.S. there,s another thread ongoing about American English where i,ve posted in more detail on the issue.

Edited June 29, 2008 by marshbags

[Scott]

A transcript is really nothing much more than a series of the 'report cards' or grades. Do they give you grades? If so, then they have a transcript, which you can obtain.

[marshbags]

A transcript is really nothing much more than a series of the 'report cards' or grades. Do they give you grades? If so, then they have a transcript, which you can obtain.

Thanks for that Scott, unfortunately when i mentioned my observations to the head last term along with how it confuses not only my daughter but possibly others ect. ect. the response wasn,t to friendly i,m sad to say.

School wise this is considered one of the best in the area and it is, so the alternatives are not available locally.

marshbags

Edited June 29, 2008 by marshbags

[PeaceBlondie]

marshbags, if you are not a professionally trained educator yourself, and you can spot obvious errors in the English teacher's speech and in the test questions and answers, etc., then the problems at that school are probably worse than your nightmares. If you cannot get your family educated in Thailand, say at an international school or a great EP or a great bilingual school, I suggest that you leave Thailand - unless you can afford not only the best and most expensive English tutors, but incredibly overskilled Thai teachers as well (for science, math, history, Thai, etc.). Good luck.

As to Jason Alawi's article. We are well aware of the general problems, but I doubt one human being on Planet Earth is well informed of the requirements to teach in Thailand under the new mandates, most of all the Teachers Council of Thailand. Jason's request sounds reasonable, but not here. Thai politics are not reasonable, and Thai educators seldom listen enough to foreigners to seriously change the culture of many centuries. A Bachelor of Education degree (which is literally not even granted in certain states or countries that supply teachers) is not the sine qua non of professional education. Transcripts can be difficult to acquire, and more difficult to decipher. Does this entry "EDU PHIL EDU USA 3 A" earned at Western Montana University at Missoula mean the same thing as "LIBART Pedagogy 3" earned at Glasgow University-Hebrides? Who at the TCT or the MoE can decrypt these? I doubt there is a standard format for transcripts, and elderly Brits insist that their transcripts never existed.

Jason Alavi's opinion that ajarn.com is a top authority, may be biased by the fact they publish his column. The ajarnforum and our own ThaiVisa Teaching in Thailand Forum are seldom read by the Thai officers who decide public policy. No matter how closely they read us, they do not seem to heed our advice.

But hey, there is one great advantage to the abysmal failure of most Thai schools teaching English. It gives the teachers great after-hours income, teaching real English to those who can pay over 500 baht per hourt,

[Issangeorge]

I think the problem in Thailand is the Education Ministry is trying to set a standard license for all foreign teachers in Thailand, whether your teaching mathematics, science, English, etc. Let's face it the criteria for each subject should be different. Even for English Teachers, if you are teaching grammar perhaps your qualifications should be different than if you are teaching conversational English. Do the Thai really want native English Language Teachers. How many people that meet the new requirements are going to come to Thailand to teach for ฿30,000 a month or even ฿100,000 a month? Oh I am not praising Ajarn.com but can anybody tell me a better site for teaching in Thailand? Thanks, Issangeorge.