Has anyone in Chiang Mai obtained Thai citizenship

[Tywais]

It means that you need to have had at least 3 full one year extension that were done at a local immigration office. You would need a work permit for the 3 years and a minimum of 80K salary unless you are applying under the married category.

I know the thread is about citizenship, but since PR has come up as well I'd like to get the latest.

It's the first time that I hear about a minimum salary, and 80k! Can you confirm, or point to the source?

thanks

You can look through these topics.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[LivinLOS]

[…] To me it sounds like you must get a non-immigrant visa that you extend for 3 years, and then apply. So this limits applicants to those on special visas, since the only visa I qualify for is a regular single-entry or multiple-entry tourist visa, none of which allow me to stay more than 60 days (with a 30 day extension).

[…] You would need a work permit for the 3 years and a minimum of 80K salary unless you are applying under the married category.

OK, so work, marriage, or possibly education visa (with the person staying in Thailand the full 3 years w/o leaving)?

I was unsure about the work visa because the same page says: “Getting a work permit is also made easier once you have PR status” which makes it sound like you’d get a PR before appling for work permit. But I assume that would be for foreigners married to a Thai, or possibly people on education visa.

No because you have to show income earned and taxes paid.. you can have a work permit on a marriage visa but basically if your not working you dont qualify.

So scrub the ED and 'for marriage' off.. It can be on a married visa but only if working.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Thais here don't seem to have any problem obtaining Thai citizenship - they just get born and it happens. Why would you want Thai citizenship? It offers absolutely no advantages over the passport that Westerners already carry.

You could buy and own a house and land!

No trips to Immigration.

No reporting where you are staying.

To list just a few.

Get an Elite Visa - no trips to immigration, no reporting where you stay. Oh and free golf games and spa treatments too - they don't give those away to citizens.

Learn to structure a lease properly and you can effectively own land anyway (and a house).

So, still not seeing the benefits.

Then you must have your head stuck in the sand?

How about: being eligible for any job and a company actually wanting to hire you, because it doesn't involve a mountain of paperwork and a trip outside of the country to get a new visa?

Or getting the Thai price at tourist attractions?

You can't work on an elite visa.

[arithai12]

It means that you need to have had at least 3 full one year extension that were done at a local immigration office. You would need a work permit for the 3 years and a minimum of 80K salary unless you are applying under the married category.

I know the thread is about citizenship, but since PR has come up as well I'd like to get the latest.

It's the first time that I hear about a minimum salary, and 80k! Can you confirm, or point to the source?

thanks

You can look through these topics.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship ApplicationCamerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

Thanks. I was aware of those threads, but one has 1,500 posts and is about Citizenship mainly, the other has 2,700 posts and was started in 2007, so not sure it has the latest info - and neither is easy to browse.

Since this is the first time that I hear about the 80,000 minimum salary, I'd simply like to understand whether it's correct.

I have been googleing of course, but in the first few pages I found there is no such requirement.

I admit I haven't been very thorough, but perhaps THAIJAMES or someone else can tell us quickly where this requirement is stated. Thanks in advance, and again apologies for hijacking the topic a little.

[Tywais]

Thanks. I was aware of those threads, but one has 1,500 posts and is about Citizenship mainly, the other has 2,700 posts and was started in 2007, so not sure it has the latest info - and neither is easy to browse.

Since this is the first time that I hear about the 80,000 minimum salary, I'd simply like to understand whether it's correct.

From Siam Legal

To become eligible to apply for Permanent Residency Permit, the applicant must meet any of the following criteria:

Applicant must present 3 years of tax statements proving the above income

• Must hold 3 consecutive 1-year visa extensions.
• Must have a valid work permit for 3 years at the date of application.
• Must earn 30,000 Baht monthly income (for those married with Thai spouse for 5 years) and 80,000 Baht monthly income (for those who are single).

This one from Siam Legal breaks it down at 50k and 80k for category employment

http://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-permanent-residency-category-employment/

And from BOI which reflects the above - http://www.boi.go.th/tir/issue/200908_19_7/94.htm

There is another category, which I qualify under, and that is foreign expert (academic) which doesn't have that salary requirement.

[thedemon]

It means that you need to have had at least 3 full one year extension that were done at a local immigration office. You would need a work permit for the 3 years and a minimum of 80K salary unless you are applying under the married category.

I know the thread is about citizenship, but since PR has come up as well I'd like to get the latest.

It's the first time that I hear about a minimum salary, and 80k! Can you confirm, or point to the source?

thanks

You can look through these topics.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship ApplicationCamerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

Thanks. I was aware of those threads, but one has 1,500 posts and is about Citizenship mainly, the other has 2,700 posts and was started in 2007, so not sure it has the latest info - and neither is easy to browse.

Since this is the first time that I hear about the 80,000 minimum salary, I'd simply like to understand whether it's correct.

I have been googleing of course, but in the first few pages I found there is no such requirement.

I admit I haven't been very thorough, but perhaps THAIJAMES or someone else can tell us quickly where this requirement is stated. Thanks in advance, and again apologies for hijacking the topic a little.

I don't think you will find any official reference to the 80k/50k minimum tax paid income requirement because it is an unpublished guideline set by Immigration not written in law as part of e.g. the Immigration Act. The links to legal firms as posted by Tywais (& similar) are probably all that you will find. I have in the past seen mention of 30k for applications based on family but I believe that comes from very outdated info...

I have been through the process (applied 2006) and have several friends that have done the same and the 80/50 figures seem to be conventional wisdom. Bear in mind though that qualifying is based on a points based system and those income amounts are minimums. The more tax you pay, the better.

Yes the Camerata thread has become somewhat unwieldy due to the sheer number of posts but it is almost without doubt the best resource you will find on the internet regarding PR. Though it goes back to 2006 I don't believe that much has changed except perhaps the interview process so read later posts concerning that.

I think the same goes for the TV Citizenship thread. It is certainly a lot of reading but pretty much all you need to know can be found in there.

[arithai12]

Thank Tywais and the thedemon.

[Tywais]

I don't think you will find any official reference to the 80k/50k minimum tax paid income requirement because it is an unpublished guideline set by Immigration not written in law as part of e.g. the Immigration Act.

There is this:

Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration

Base on the authority prescribed in Section 7, Section 41, Section 43 and Section 45 of Immigration

Act B.E. 2522 stipulate that foreign nationals who wish to attain resident in the Kingdom of Thailand

may apply for resident permit with the Immigration Commission.

Full pdf here Translated by Pol. Maj. Patchamon Meknarit - http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

[thedemon]

I don't think you will find any official reference to the 80k/50k minimum tax paid income requirement because it is an unpublished guideline set by Immigration not written in law as part of e.g. the Immigration Act.

There is this:

Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration

Base on the authority prescribed in Section 7, Section 41, Section 43 and Section 45 of Immigration

Act B.E. 2522 stipulate that foreign nationals who wish to attain resident in the Kingdom of Thailand

may apply for resident permit with the Immigration Commission.

Full pdf here Translated by Pol. Maj. Patchamon Meknarit - http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

Interesting. I haven't seen that before.

Are there any reports of a successful applicant with circa 30k monthly income?

[ardokano]

I am not talking about "bogus" companies.

If the Thai 51% didn't use their own money and don't have 51% voting rights, it's a bogus company.

What an amazing display of ignorance.....

BritManToo say true according to the laws of Thailand.

Edited May 5, 2016 by ardokano

[northernjohn]

Where does it say that company owners are not eligible? May I ask where you got your info from?

Company owners usually find it hard to fulfill the work permit and visa extension criteria for 3 continuous years.

There may be a few, but it's very rare. If it were easy, I would have gone the 'bogus company' citizenship route already. Create a shell company, employ 4 Thai family members on minimum wage, employ myself, etc., doesn't work.

If it were easy, I would have gone the International school teacher route (I'm a registered high school teacher in the Uk for Math and Science), but nobody would employ me on anything other than rolling contracts, so no go.

A lot of the company owners I know appear to be on tourist visas, or visa runners.

Maybe you know some who can fulfill the requirements, more likely they are lying about their VISA and WP.

So lots of people think it's possible for a man, but none of you have managed to do it?

Just one person claiming PR (and that person female?).

Maybe the reason is because, it's not as possible as you would like to think for men.

Unless you are a foreign woman married to a Thai man, which is a lot easier.

You are all mixed up with all your information.

I am a PR holder and I am a male.

According to the Police Special Division here in CM there are about 500 PR holders in Chiang Mai. Based on them having to renew their stamp on their red book every 5 years.

(some could have left the country or passed away)

This discussion is about Citizenship.

I know that at least one person has been approved last year because I went to talk to BORA (interior Ministry) a few months ago and they showed me his application had been approved.

I am assuming that there may be more as hundreds of applications were on file as Special Branches in Chiang Mai.

I am hoping that on of these hundreds of applications reads Thai Visa and is able to update us on his or her progress.

I have heard on Thai Visa that they only approve at the most 100 citizenships a year and have been known to go through some years with out giving any out. Also I have heard that it involves a great deal of money.

[TheSiemReaper]

The Thais here don't seem to have any problem obtaining Thai citizenship - they just get born and it happens. Why would you want Thai citizenship? It offers absolutely no advantages over the passport that Westerners already carry.

You could buy and own a house and land!

No trips to Immigration.

No reporting where you are staying.

To list just a few.

Of course. If you want to live in Thailand, then ideally you want to have a Thai ID card. If you will be moving on in 6 months, then it doesn't matter. However, why is it always the foreigners who have lived in Thailand (or other places in Asia) for decades and know full well they will die here who claim that Thai/ other Asian citizenship is "useless"? What a stupid remark. Yes, Thai citizenship is useful. Extremely useful and much more useful than any western passport when visiting or living in Thailand!

Thai citizenship is also useful for travelling to another ASEAN country. You don't need a visa. Additionally, if you cross a locals only border, you will be allowed to cross using just an ID card (no need for a passport) and although you won't be allowed very far, it can be useful because you can travel to say Myeik in Myanmar from Dan Singkorn using just a border pass, for example, whereas foreigners would have to obtain a Myanmar visa and travel to Myeik by plane or bus from Yangon or by road from Kanchanaburi via Dawei.

What else? Well working! You can get a job without needing a work permit. You will also be considered for a job where in many cases Thai employers don't want to hire you simply because doing the paperwork to hire a foreigner is complicated and time consuming. It also costs a lot of money.

What an incredibly limited world view you have. If you need to compete with the locals for jobs; you wasted your opportunities in your own country to prepare yourself for an international career. Immigrants who take food off a local table are the reason that immigrants get a bad rap around the world.

As for the benefits of crossing some random border to go to a nowhere destination? That's sub-minimal.

15 years in Asia now. Still can't see why anybody would want or need a local passport or be prepared to jump through the hoops required to get one.

[THAIJAMES]

Where does it say that company owners are not eligible? May I ask where you got your info from?

Company owners usually find it hard to fulfill the work permit and visa extension criteria for 3 continuous years.

There may be a few, but it's very rare. If it were easy, I would have gone the 'bogus company' citizenship route already. Create a shell company, employ 4 Thai family members on minimum wage, employ myself, etc., doesn't work.

If it were easy, I would have gone the International school teacher route (I'm a registered high school teacher in the Uk for Math and Science), but nobody would employ me on anything other than rolling contracts, so no go.

A lot of the company owners I know appear to be on tourist visas, or visa runners.

Maybe you know some who can fulfill the requirements, more likely they are lying about their VISA and WP.

So lots of people think it's possible for a man, but none of you have managed to do it?

Just one person claiming PR (and that person female?).

Maybe the reason is because, it's not as possible as you would like to think for men.

Unless you are a foreign woman married to a Thai man, which is a lot easier.

You are all mixed up with all your information.

I am a PR holder and I am a male.

According to the Police Special Division here in CM there are about 500 PR holders in Chiang Mai. Based on them having to renew their stamp on their red book every 5 years.

(some could have left the country or passed away)

This discussion is about Citizenship.

I know that at least one person has been approved last year because I went to talk to BORA (interior Ministry) a few months ago and they showed me his application had been approved.

I am assuming that there may be more as hundreds of applications were on file as Special Branches in Chiang Mai.

I am hoping that on of these hundreds of applications reads Thai Visa and is able to update us on his or her progress.

I have heard on Thai Visa that they only approve at the most 100 citizenships a year and have been known to go through some years with out giving any out. Also I have heard that it involves a great deal of money.

That is for PR, maximum of 100 per country per year. Only Chinese and Indians ever reach the maximum 100 per year.

There is no maximum for Citizenship.

As far as costs, for PR there are no extra costs involved if you do everything yourself.

For Citizenship, I have heard that tea money is involved in some cases. A friend of mine that got citizenship paid 1 million Baht many years ago. Don't know what the cituation is like now.

[JaseTheBass]

The Thais here don't seem to have any problem obtaining Thai citizenship - they just get born and it happens. Why would you want Thai citizenship? It offers absolutely no advantages over the passport that Westerners already carry.

You could buy and own a house and land!

No trips to Immigration.

No reporting where you are staying.

To list just a few.

Of course. If you want to live in Thailand, then ideally you want to have a Thai ID card. If you will be moving on in 6 months, then it doesn't matter. However, why is it always the foreigners who have lived in Thailand (or other places in Asia) for decades and know full well they will die here who claim that Thai/ other Asian citizenship is "useless"? What a stupid remark. Yes, Thai citizenship is useful. Extremely useful and much more useful than any western passport when visiting or living in Thailand!

Thai citizenship is also useful for travelling to another ASEAN country. You don't need a visa. Additionally, if you cross a locals only border, you will be allowed to cross using just an ID card (no need for a passport) and although you won't be allowed very far, it can be useful because you can travel to say Myeik in Myanmar from Dan Singkorn using just a border pass, for example, whereas foreigners would have to obtain a Myanmar visa and travel to Myeik by plane or bus from Yangon or by road from Kanchanaburi via Dawei.

What else? Well working! You can get a job without needing a work permit. You will also be considered for a job where in many cases Thai employers don't want to hire you simply because doing the paperwork to hire a foreigner is complicated and time consuming. It also costs a lot of money.

What an incredibly limited world view you have. If you need to compete with the locals for jobs; you wasted your opportunities in your own country to prepare yourself for an international career. Immigrants who take food off a local table are the reason that immigrants get a bad rap around the world.

As for the benefits of crossing some random border to go to a nowhere destination? That's sub-minimal.

15 years in Asia now. Still can't see why anybody would want or need a local passport or be prepared to jump through the hoops required to get one.

Why would working here automatically mean competing for jobs? Maybe a prospective employer wants skills and experience not easily found in local staff?

[HenryB]

I am not talking about "bogus" companies.

If the Thai 51% didn't use their own money and don't have 51% voting rights, it's a bogus company.

I own 100% of my company and have 100% voting rights. No Thais shareholders. Please stop spreading wrong information.

Look up Thai American Amenity treaty.

To me an American and people who claim Company under Thai American Amenity treaty is like saying my wife is Different

Lets meet for drink and prove it

Big Company Owner

Edited May 6, 2016 by HenryB

[northernjohn]

Company owners usually find it hard to fulfill the work permit and visa extension criteria for 3 continuous years.

There may be a few, but it's very rare. If it were easy, I would have gone the 'bogus company' citizenship route already. Create a shell company, employ 4 Thai family members on minimum wage, employ myself, etc., doesn't work.

If it were easy, I would have gone the International school teacher route (I'm a registered high school teacher in the Uk for Math and Science), but nobody would employ me on anything other than rolling contracts, so no go.

A lot of the company owners I know appear to be on tourist visas, or visa runners.

Maybe you know some who can fulfill the requirements, more likely they are lying about their VISA and WP.

So lots of people think it's possible for a man, but none of you have managed to do it?

Just one person claiming PR (and that person female?).

Maybe the reason is because, it's not as possible as you would like to think for men.

Unless you are a foreign woman married to a Thai man, which is a lot easier.

You are all mixed up with all your information.

I am a PR holder and I am a male.

According to the Police Special Division here in CM there are about 500 PR holders in Chiang Mai. Based on them having to renew their stamp on their red book every 5 years.

(some could have left the country or passed away)

This discussion is about Citizenship.

I know that at least one person has been approved last year because I went to talk to BORA (interior Ministry) a few months ago and they showed me his application had been approved.

I am assuming that there may be more as hundreds of applications were on file as Special Branches in Chiang Mai.

I am hoping that on of these hundreds of applications reads Thai Visa and is able to update us on his or her progress.

I have heard on Thai Visa that they only approve at the most 100 citizenships a year and have been known to go through some years with out giving any out. Also I have heard that it involves a great deal of money.

That is for PR, maximum of 100 per country per year. Only Chinese and Indians ever reach the maximum 100 per year.

There is no maximum for Citizenship.

As far as costs, for PR there are no extra costs involved if you do everything yourself.

For Citizenship, I have heard that tea money is involved in some cases. A friend of mine that got citizenship paid 1 million Baht many years ago. Don't know what the cituation is like now.

Well basically the question was about citizenship and quickly dissolved into other nonsense. As I said I heard it on Thai Visa and if you look at the answers to the question the OP asked you will understand why I was wrong. Very unreliable sources.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Thais here don't seem to have any problem obtaining Thai citizenship - they just get born and it happens. Why would you want Thai citizenship? It offers absolutely no advantages over the passport that Westerners already carry.

You could buy and own a house and land!

No trips to Immigration.

No reporting where you are staying.

To list just a few.

Of course. If you want to live in Thailand, then ideally you want to have a Thai ID card. If you will be moving on in 6 months, then it doesn't matter. However, why is it always the foreigners who have lived in Thailand (or other places in Asia) for decades and know full well they will die here who claim that Thai/ other Asian citizenship is "useless"? What a stupid remark. Yes, Thai citizenship is useful. Extremely useful and much more useful than any western passport when visiting or living in Thailand!

Thai citizenship is also useful for travelling to another ASEAN country. You don't need a visa. Additionally, if you cross a locals only border, you will be allowed to cross using just an ID card (no need for a passport) and although you won't be allowed very far, it can be useful because you can travel to say Myeik in Myanmar from Dan Singkorn using just a border pass, for example, whereas foreigners would have to obtain a Myanmar visa and travel to Myeik by plane or bus from Yangon or by road from Kanchanaburi via Dawei.

What else? Well working! You can get a job without needing a work permit. You will also be considered for a job where in many cases Thai employers don't want to hire you simply because doing the paperwork to hire a foreigner is complicated and time consuming. It also costs a lot of money.

What an incredibly limited world view you have. If you need to compete with the locals for jobs; you wasted your opportunities in your own country to prepare yourself for an international career. Immigrants who take food off a local table are the reason that immigrants get a bad rap around the world.

As for the benefits of crossing some random border to go to a nowhere destination? That's sub-minimal.

15 years in Asia now. Still can't see why anybody would want or need a local passport or be prepared to jump through the hoops required to get one.

Seems like you are the one with a limited world view. May I ask you this simple question: why are you in Thailand or Cambodia? Why don't you live in your rosy western country if it's so much better than being a Thai citizen?

I just told you, with a local passport you can purchase land. You can get a job ANY job not just teaching (and no, I'm not implying that you should become a day labourer just because you're allowed to) - you can own 100% of a company, you can get free entry (or lower priced entry) into many tourist attractions, you don't need to worry about passports, visas and re-entry permits, registering where you live etc. AND yes a Thai passport IS more useful than a western passport in ALL ASEAN countries, for travel to Russia and some other countries. It's not about competing with locals per se you dufus, it's about being able to get a job in the first place. Also, let's not forget that there are many western professionals earning a good amount of money here, who've been in Thailand for years and could greatly benefit from local citizenship, if given the chance. It's simply ignorant to suggest otherwise.

In any case, you are suggesting that a local passport is only good for "waiting tables". Let me see here, in Thailand at least (if you didn't already know) the vast majority of these kinds of low skilled jobs are occupied by foreigners already, just that they don't look very foreign - they are actually Cambodians, Burmese and Laotian. Occasionally even Filipinos and Vietnamese (though the latter two aren't eligible to work in such jobs and are thus illegal). Also, in the USA mostly illegal Mexicans wait tables so doesn't seem like getting a local passport for that kind of work will be necessary.

You are also ignoring the fact that getting a Thai passport is only something that can be obtained after a number of years of residency in the country, being employed, contributing to society and although not expressly required, you almost need to be married to a Thai citizen otherwise it takes many years longer and is less likely to be approved. Nobody comes to Thailand for work and then says after a few weeks "I want to become a Thai citizen" as you and me both know, it's a process that takes many years. Cambodia is much the same, for that matter.

The only good thing about a western passport if you're living in Thailand or Cambodia is if you want to go on a holiday back home, or for moving back home. However, since both the Thai and Cambodian governments will let you keep your existing citizenship(s) once you attain the local one, it's a win-win situation.

But yeah apparently you must LOVE those 90 day reports, obtaining visas, being charged extra for being a foreigner, not being allowed to own land and being disregarded for a job. Must be great to be you. NOT.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

You could buy and own a house and land!

No trips to Immigration.

No reporting where you are staying.

To list just a few.

Of course. If you want to live in Thailand, then ideally you want to have a Thai ID card. If you will be moving on in 6 months, then it doesn't matter. However, why is it always the foreigners who have lived in Thailand (or other places in Asia) for decades and know full well they will die here who claim that Thai/ other Asian citizenship is "useless"? What a stupid remark. Yes, Thai citizenship is useful. Extremely useful and much more useful than any western passport when visiting or living in Thailand!

Thai citizenship is also useful for travelling to another ASEAN country. You don't need a visa. Additionally, if you cross a locals only border, you will be allowed to cross using just an ID card (no need for a passport) and although you won't be allowed very far, it can be useful because you can travel to say Myeik in Myanmar from Dan Singkorn using just a border pass, for example, whereas foreigners would have to obtain a Myanmar visa and travel to Myeik by plane or bus from Yangon or by road from Kanchanaburi via Dawei.

What else? Well working! You can get a job without needing a work permit. You will also be considered for a job where in many cases Thai employers don't want to hire you simply because doing the paperwork to hire a foreigner is complicated and time consuming. It also costs a lot of money.

What an incredibly limited world view you have. If you need to compete with the locals for jobs; you wasted your opportunities in your own country to prepare yourself for an international career. Immigrants who take food off a local table are the reason that immigrants get a bad rap around the world.

As for the benefits of crossing some random border to go to a nowhere destination? That's sub-minimal.

15 years in Asia now. Still can't see why anybody would want or need a local passport or be prepared to jump through the hoops required to get one.

Why would working here automatically mean competing for jobs? Maybe a prospective employer wants skills and experience not easily found in local staff?

True, but I can guarantee you that in a country like Thailand, Thais will always be at an advantage over foreigners in any job search, unless you're wanting to become an English teacher. Thais can speak the local lingo, they know the culture, office politics etc. whereas foreigners generally won't socialize extensively with their Thai staff or fellow employees due to cultural and language barriers, which can make it more difficult to work together.

A foreigner who naturalizes as a Thai citizen will presumably have fluent or near native command of the Thai language, will be aware of local cultural norms and most importantly, won't be overlooked as a potential candidate for a job opening due to the difficulties in getting a visa and work permit for a non-citizen. Many companies in Thailand don't want to hire foreigners simply because it requires too much paperwork. And because we're too expensive. I also know quite a few highly qualified foreigners working in finance etc. that are on retirement visas and therefore illegally working here, all because their employers couldn't be bothered getting the right paperwork done. Or maybe they have succeeded their foreigner quota. Not sure exactly.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[TheSiemReaper]

Don't do 90 day reports. The nice people from the Thai Elite visa do it for me.

What on earth would I want to own land here for? I can get much better returns elsewhere.

If I wanted a job here it would come through supplying skills that aren't in the market. Not by shoving a local out of the line.

I have zero issues travelling in ASEAN. Hong Kong ID does that without any drawbacks.

Oh and the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Now try again and explain the spurious benefits of citizenship to me.

[WorkingTourist]

[…] the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Do you have more info about this?

Somehow find it hard to believe that they would allow land ownership via Thai Elite, especially as this used to be part of Thai Elite, back when membership was for life. But for some reason, they changed their mind and decided it was a bad idea.

If land ownership is only a privilege as long as you have your membership, it seems to just be a very expensive way to lease land.

[TheSiemReaper]

[…] the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Do you have more info about this?

Somehow find it hard to believe that they would allow land ownership via Thai Elite, especially as this used to be part of Thai Elite, back when membership was for life. But for some reason, they changed their mind and decided it was a bad idea.

If land ownership is only a privilege as long as you have your membership, it seems to just be a very expensive way to lease land.

Actually, they're about to pimp up the Thai Elite visa with a ton of new perks. The program loses money (a ton of it) at the moment and they've recognized that a bit of golf and the occasional massage isn't selling it. (Though I'll be honest - those perks outweigh the cost of the program). Land ownership is one of many things on the table; free local flights is probably the best privilege they seem to be adding. But who knows? There are a lot of folks obsessed with the idea of owning land here; maybe it will sway them to pony up the 2 million baht? I doubt it though; if you can afford 2 million baht - you're probably bright enough to buy land elsewhere where the returns are better and there's less hassle all round about foreign ownership.

Check the Bangkok Post website; new perks were in there sometime this week.

[WorkingTourist]

Check the Bangkok Post website; new perks were in there sometime this week.

Thanks, found <deleted>

Some interesting numbers, like We believe the new services will help reduce operating costs to 80,000-90,000 baht per card per year, while no longer in the red (if it works), it still seems like a lousy profit margin.

As for land ownership, I don’t think people are motivated by the returns, but rather because they actually want to live here

Edited May 6, 2016 by Tywais
Link to bangkok post removed as per forum rules

[TheSiemReaper]

Check the Bangkok Post website; new perks were in there sometime this week.

Thanks, found <deleted>

Some interesting numbers, like We believe the new services will help reduce operating costs to 80,000-90,000 baht per card per year, while no longer in the red (if it works), it still seems like a lousy profit margin.

As for land ownership, I don’t think people are motivated by the returns, but rather because they actually want to live here

I want to live here too. I use the profits in better markets to pay the rent in this one.

[WorkingTourist]

I want to live here too. I use the profits in better markets to pay the rent in this one.

Assuming you prefer a house over a condo, wouldn’t you want a house built to your exact specifications? That is hard to find on the rental market.

[TheSiemReaper]

I want to live here too. I use the profits in better markets to pay the rent in this one.

Assuming you prefer a house over a condo, wouldn’t you want a house built to your exact specifications? That is hard to find on the rental market.

Ah, there's the rub. I'd prefer never to live in a house for as long as I live. Then there's also the fact that I really couldn't care less about the space itself either - as long as it's clean and of a decent size with nice amenities nearby; I don't mind about layouts etc.

I live in a digital world. My PC, Kindle, Camera, Phone and various forms of storage media, a couple of mice, etc. are all I own. You don't need a custom designed space to park a suitcase.

[Tomtomtom69]

Don't do 90 day reports. The nice people from the Thai Elite visa do it for me.

What on earth would I want to own land here for? I can get much better returns elsewhere.

If I wanted a job here it would come through supplying skills that aren't in the market. Not by shoving a local out of the line.

I have zero issues travelling in ASEAN. Hong Kong ID does that without any drawbacks.

Oh and the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Now try again and explain the spurious benefits of citizenship to me.

"Oh and the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses" source? Or is this just a figment of your imagination? Also, did you ever consider that maybe getting citizenship is security? Who knows, maybe this government or the next one might cancel the whole Thai Elite thingy altogether as they almost did a few years ago and then you'll be left high and dry begging to get back in.

"Better returns elsewhere" owning land in Thailand is not necessarily about investment, it's about owning something you can call yours and pass onto the next generation. Well, that's assuming you even have children, maybe you don't. Also, seems you have no idea about how land values have gone through the roof in locations close to critical infrastructure, border crossings etc. in anticipation of the economic benefits they will bring. So actually you are wrong - good returns are possible, in some cases.

Also, must be great to be a multi-millionaire to be able to invest $1-2 on a tiny piece of land in a western country, barely large enough to build a house. Most people who don't already have inherited wealth are finding it virtually impossible to buy property in most western countries these days, unless it's in a back of beyond place like say I dunno, Bourke in Australia? Not that you can expect any returns for your investment should you purchase a property there. Working a normal job is usually not enough anymore. Somehow I doubt you have that kind of money, so I don't think you should be lecturing anyone on where to find "better returns".

Again, you aren't getting the point regarding working here. You can still supply skills to the local market after you've become a citizen, whoever said anything about "shoving locals out of line?" Though you would have a Thai passport, your face wouldn't suddenly become Asian, your nose wouldn't suddenly become smaller, your hair wouldn't suddenly become black by pledging allegiance to the Kingdom of Thailand. Companies here are still far more likely to hire you if you have a local ID card. What they will see is someone who has decided to contribute to the society they are living in, someone who has committed himself to Thailand, someone that can be hired without a lot of complicated paperwork. I've said it before and I'll say it again, foreigners are regularly turned down for work in Thailand simply because they are foreigners, no matter how experienced they are, or think they are. It's a fact.

All of this citizenship talk of course, means nothing if you intend on skipping town eventually. But I can't think of anything more ridiculous than someone choosing to live in a country they have dedicated so much time to, and then NOT taking out citizenship, given the chance, because they have some self-righteous view of the world. Of course, you aren't even eligible for citizenship in the first place as you don't work in Thailand.

However, please remind me, why are you in Thailand? It never fails to amaze me how some people choose to live in a society and then have this strange notion of wanting to remain separate.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

Of course I meant to say $1-2 million above. LOL.

[TheSiemReaper]

Don't do 90 day reports. The nice people from the Thai Elite visa do it for me.

What on earth would I want to own land here for? I can get much better returns elsewhere.

If I wanted a job here it would come through supplying skills that aren't in the market. Not by shoving a local out of the line.

I have zero issues travelling in ASEAN. Hong Kong ID does that without any drawbacks.

Oh and the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Now try again and explain the spurious benefits of citizenship to me.

"Oh and the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses" source? Or is this just a figment of your imagination? Also, did you ever consider that maybe getting citizenship is security? Who knows, maybe this government or the next one might cancel the whole Thai Elite thingy altogether as they almost did a few years ago and then you'll be left high and dry begging to get back in.

"Better returns elsewhere" owning land in Thailand is not necessarily about investment, it's about owning something you can call yours and pass onto the next generation. Well, that's assuming you even have children, maybe you don't. Also, seems you have no idea about how land values have gone through the roof in locations close to critical infrastructure, border crossings etc. in anticipation of the economic benefits they will bring. So actually you are wrong - good returns are possible, in some cases.

Also, must be great to be a multi-millionaire to be able to invest $1-2 on a tiny piece of land in a western country, barely large enough to build a house. Most people who don't already have inherited wealth are finding it virtually impossible to buy property in most western countries these days, unless it's in a back of beyond place like say I dunno, Bourke in Australia? Not that you can expect any returns for your investment should you purchase a property there. Working a normal job is usually not enough anymore. Somehow I doubt you have that kind of money, so I don't think you should be lecturing anyone on where to find "better returns".

Again, you aren't getting the point regarding working here. You can still supply skills to the local market after you've become a citizen, whoever said anything about "shoving locals out of line?" Though you would have a Thai passport, your face wouldn't suddenly become Asian, your nose wouldn't suddenly become smaller, your hair wouldn't suddenly become black by pledging allegiance to the Kingdom of Thailand. Companies here are still far more likely to hire you if you have a local ID card. What they will see is someone who has decided to contribute to the society they are living in, someone who has committed himself to Thailand, someone that can be hired without a lot of complicated paperwork. I've said it before and I'll say it again, foreigners are regularly turned down for work in Thailand simply because they are foreigners, no matter how experienced they are, or think they are. It's a fact.

All of this citizenship talk of course, means nothing if you intend on skipping town eventually. But I can't think of anything more ridiculous than someone choosing to live in a country they have dedicated so much time to, and then NOT taking out citizenship, given the chance, because they have some self-righteous view of the world. Of course, you aren't even eligible for citizenship in the first place as you don't work in Thailand.

However, please remind me, why are you in Thailand? It never fails to amaze me how some people choose to live in a society and then have this strange notion of wanting to remain separate.

1. The source of the change of Elite visa program was given above and then deleted by the moderators... it's in this week's Bangkok Post.

2. Returns is all that matters with land. "Handing something to the next generation" is lovely; handing them 5 times the value of the land in cash will probably suffice. Then if they want to buy land in Thailand they can.

3. You don't need to be a multi-millionaire to find safe markets to put your cash in that offer returns better than Thailand. I am confident that I have more money than most people here by the insane explosion of "where can I get free water in a restaurant" and "where is beer cheaper than 7-11" threads.

4. If you do not have unique skills; you are taking a job from a local. It's that simple. If you have unique skills; you get a visa to add them to the local economy. Really, it's that simple. You don't contribute to society by picking up a passport. You'd need to try a bit harder than that.

5. I have no idea whether I'll leave Thailand or stay here forever. I have the options, for now, to do either without picking up a passport.

I'm in Thailand because I like it. I'm learning the language. I have a bundle of Thai friends (more than half my friends here are Thai). I like the food. I like to travel and appreciate the culture and heritage here. None of that requires me to sign up for citizenship. Your passionate defense of picking up a passport is emotionally compelling but logically weak.

Looking forward even a few years in time suggests that this region is in for a period of serious instability and quite possibly all out war. I'm not engaged enough in anywhere to join an army (without an option of doing otherwise) and then fight for it. You only live once, there's nothing worth dying for. You see that's the downside of citizenship and the biggest of them all; your eligibility for the draft.

[northernjohn]

I want to live here too. I use the profits in better markets to pay the rent in this one.

Assuming you prefer a house over a condo, wouldn’t you want a house built to your exact specifications? That is hard to find on the rental market.

Ah, there's the rub. I'd prefer never to live in a house for as long as I live. Then there's also the fact that I really couldn't care less about the space itself either - as long as it's clean and of a decent size with nice amenities nearby; I don't mind about layouts etc.

I live in a digital world. My PC, Kindle, Camera, Phone and various forms of storage media, a couple of mice, etc. are all I own. You don't need a custom designed space to park a suitcase.

I totally agree with you. I am of an age where I do not need all the luxury's people seem to need. I have had most of them already. Why any one would want to own a piece of property is beyond me unless it is for investment. If that is the case there are places all over the world they can buy. Here if they want a home of their own they can lease the land for 30 years. Not a lot of people live in the same house for 30 years. Many of the ones who have retired here such as myself probably won't make another 30 years.

I have to admit I am a lucky man. I have 3 kids and they have all told me not to worry about them. They will be OK. I have some money invested with power of attorney given to one of my sons for when I die to give to my Thai wife who bottom line would be taken care of by her kids.

Now some one tell me what good a Thai citizenship with it's passport would do for me that I need. I have no problem paying for the Visa's in other countries that don't charge you if you have a Thai passport. The requirements for me being retired here on a retirement Visa are simple. Possibility of costing me some time which I obviously have being retired or just parting with an extra 3,000 baht to an agent.

[worgeordie]

[…] the Thai Elite visa is about to be extended to allow land ownership should I ever take leave of my senses.

Do you have more info about this?

Somehow find it hard to believe that they would allow land ownership via Thai Elite, especially as this used to be part of Thai Elite, back when membership was for life. But for some reason, they changed their mind and decided it was a bad idea.

If land ownership is only a privilege as long as you have your membership, it seems to just be a very expensive way to lease land.

Actually, they're about to pimp up the Thai Elite visa with a ton of new perks. The program loses money (a ton of it) at the moment and they've recognized that a bit of golf and the occasional massage isn't selling it. (Though I'll be honest - those perks outweigh the cost of the program). Land ownership is one of many things on the table; free local flights is probably the best privilege they seem to be adding. But who knows? There are a lot of folks obsessed with the idea of owning land here; maybe it will sway them to pony up the 2 million baht? I doubt it though; if you can afford 2 million baht - you're probably bright enough to buy land elsewhere where the returns are better and there's less hassle all round about foreign ownership.

Check the Bangkok Post website; new perks were in there sometime this week.

Searched the BP website and can find nothing on Thai Elite Visa +owning land,you would see snow storms

in Bangkok,before that would ever happen,how would it work for a start,say you pay for Thai Elite Visa,which

is good for 5 years,buy the land,but don't want to,cannot afford to renew,do you have to sell the land ?

what ever the Government says one day can be U-turned the next,happens all the time,maybe its something

Thai Visa Elite would like to do,to sell more Visa, but it will never happen.

regards Worgeordie