Kalasin Accident

[mortenaa]

Yes, he may get a fine for speeding. But that does not out him at fault.

It is not the first time I see that happening here, but I'm appalled at the level of road rule analysis here, does not bode well for the driving skills of foreigners in Thailand.

Dude, the motorcycle was driving on the shoulder. He should be in lane, like everyone else. Of course he is in the fault. The car was in the further most left lane, and wouldn't expect someone to come racing on the left. Overtaking should also always be done to the right.

Edited February 15, 2016 by mortenaa

[Don Mega]

Nonsence, the lane had finished as Kartman said.Both at fault Mini Car driver was clearly hovering, and Bike didnt appraise the situation due to his speed and stupidity.

Does not matter whether the lane was finished or not. Unless you think all motorbike riders are required to move onto the next lane when their lane is finished because the lines have changed'. Car lovers may not be happy with this, but that does not change the fact that the motorbike was legally in the right and the car in the wrong. But of course the bikerider could have avoided this.

The hard shoulder is not considered to even be a lane. The scooter is at fault.

car cut in front of the scooter.

if you say "The scooter is at fault.", then you have not know the rules of the road and do not have to be accept drived any vehicles.

scooter can only MAY be can be guilty of failure to comply with the speed limit. but my eyes do not determine the speed . can you have a special certificate instrument in the your eyes for check speed?

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Don Mega

[stevenl]

Yes, he may get a fine for speeding. But that does not out him at fault.

It is not the first time I see that happening here, but I'm appalled at the level of road rule analysis here, does not bode well for the driving skills of foreigners in Thailand.

Dude, the motorcycle was driving on the shoulder. He should be in lane, like everyone else. Of course he is in the fault. The car was in the further most left lane, and wouldn't expect someone to come racing on the left. Overtaking should also always be done to the right.

Is that a shoulder or, very common in Thailand, a motorbike lane to the left of the car lane(s)?

And no, overtaking on the left is allowed in Thailand and for motorbikes even compulsory.

The car should have expected somebody there.

Edited February 15, 2016 by stevenl

[ardokano]

Motorbike's fault.

Reason:

Speeding (over legal limit)

Speeding (way over any speed that could be considered safe for his road position)

Reckless driving (Putting aside the speed, driver of motorbike seems to have no awareness that cars may turn left and completely fails to react when a car turns left)

I would have to say abysmal driving by the rider of the bike, even worse when he carries the responsibility for his helmetless pillion passenger.

Car driver has to carry a portion of the blame (20%??) for failing to spot the motorcyclist and failing to emergency brake prior to the collision. However given the reckless speed and wilful and foolish determination of the motorbike not to drop any speed whatsoever, one cannot fully blame the car driver.

At the police station, I imagine the car driver will be found at fault due to the fact it was turning and if any vehicle has insurance, it will be the car.

How you calculate speed? how you know speed limit at this is place?

SO MAY BE "Speeding (over legal limit)".

And car 100% in fault . car MUST give go first of any vehical( car or moto) and after just can change line or to make a turn(return)

I i am be so sad if you have another opinion because that show you DO not know road rules.

and what react must be moto?

If in moto line there is almost always sand and sharp braking can cause a fall. Even if the bike would be the speed of two times lower than it was possible(not sure) it was an accident, but not so hard.

[mortenaa]

Is that a shoulder or, very common in Thailand, a motorbike lane to the left of the car lane(s)?

And no, overtaking on the left is allowed in Thailand and for motorbikes even compulsory.

The car should have expected somebody there.

It doesn't matter if its common or not. He is still in the wrong.. Same happens on the tollways in BKK. Cars drive on the shoulder, and they have to give way to the people in the left lane if they are exiting. They are not supposed to be driving there in the first placea

[mortenaa]

How you calculate speed? how you know speed limit at this is place?

SO MAY BE "Speeding (over legal limit)".

And car 100% in fault . car MUST give go first of any vehical( car or moto) and after just can change line or to make a turn(return)

I i am be so sad if you have another opinion because that show you DO not know road rules.

and what react must be moto?

If in moto line there is almost always sand and sharp braking can cause a fall. Even if the bike would be the speed of two times lower than it was possible(not sure) it was an accident, but not so hard.

I think u meant the motorcycle is 100% in the wrong

Nobody is changing lanes. He is making a left turn

Edited February 15, 2016 by mortenaa

[ardokano]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

[ChesneyHawkes]

Just reviewed the footage on a massive screen with various filters and it shows the car did indicate, I don't see how it's the car's fault

Edited February 15, 2016 by ChesneyHawkes

[ardokano]

How you calculate speed? how you know speed limit at this is place?

SO MAY BE "Speeding (over legal limit)".

And car 100% in fault . car MUST give go first of any vehical( car or moto) and after just can change line or to make a turn(return)

I i am be so sad if you have another opinion because that show you DO not know road rules.

and what react must be moto?

If in moto line there is almost always sand and sharp braking can cause a fall. Even if the bike would be the speed of two times lower than it was possible(not sure) it was an accident, but not so hard.

I think u meant the motorcycle is 100% in the wrong

Nobody is changing lanes. He is making a left turn

so no need chekin in moto line have some come or not and no need give way scooter( bike)?

Its some special rule for Thailand?

this is example from SG.. HOW turn left

"

eneral procedure:

1. If a lane change is required, decide well in advance to make your left turn. Signal and check your rear gate and blind spot to see if there is a vehicle close to you. Move safely into the left side of the left lane.
2. Check for traffic, pedestrians and any other real or potential hazards that may be in or near the intersection. Use the basic left, straight ahead, right, left sweeping pattern.
3. Slow down (and shift to a lower gear if you are driving a manual transmission vehicle).
4. Check again for real or potential hazards. Watch out for motorcycles when completing a left turn. Motorists failing to identify oncoming motorcycles when making a left turn is a significant contributing factor in collisions involving motorcycles.
5. If you have to stop in the intersection to wait for oncoming traffic, be sure to keep your vehicle parallel to the lane and your front wheels straight. That way if you are hit from behind, you will not be pushed in the path of oncoming traffic.
6. If there are no potential hazards, complete your left turn into the first available driving lane.

YE YES may be HAVE TO STOP!!!!

PS

He broke the rules and Wrong it is somewhat different

I not say Moto NOT be wrong.

even MAY BE broke the rules speedlimit.

but car 100% wrong + broke the rules

so MUST pay

Edited February 15, 2016 by ardokano

[stevenl]

Is that a shoulder or, very common in Thailand, a motorbike lane to the left of the car lane(s)?

And no, overtaking on the left is allowed in Thailand and for motorbikes even compulsory.

The car should have expected somebody there.

It doesn't matter if its common or not. He is still in the wrong.. Same happens on the tollways in BKK. Cars drive on the shoulder, and they have to give way to the people in the left lane if they are exiting. They are not supposed to be driving there in the first placea

That's not what I said. A motorbike lane on the left is very common in Thailand. And if that is a motorbike line he would be fully in the right, except for maybe speed.

[losworld]

Hardly a joking matter as both may have been killed. The car driver did not signal. He did not look for a motorbike on the shoulder which is common here.

The car driver did not slow, signal and pull left far enough in advance of the turn. It was a very sudden turn which obviously the motorbike driver did not expect.

I place the fault on the car driver. In Thailand one needs to be aware of motorbikes and they travel on the left lane.

I am sure if he was on the road someone would complain he should be on the shoulder.

Edited February 15, 2016 by losworld

[cornishcarlos]

If Tim didn't have a dash cam, the accident would never have happened...

I blame Tim..

[cornishcarlos]

Motorbike at fault. No attempt at slowing down which makes me wonder what he was actually looking at !! You could see that car turning long way back, plenty time to avoid it...

[Don Mega]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Don Mega

[mortenaa]

1. Check again for real or potential hazards. Watch out for motorcycles when completing a left turn. Motorists failing to identify oncoming motorcycles when making a left turn is a significant contributing factor in collisions involving motorcycles.

If you see in the video, there is a solid line, not a dotted line on the shoulder. So the motorcycle is both wrong and careless.

Its difficult to see a motorcycle that is coming in 100km/h + on the shoulder. Unless he has eyes like fly.. It's a good practice to turn with caution, but the motorcycle should also have braked when, as he was getting close to an intersection. There was a big yellow sign warning motorists to "SLOW DOWN".

[stevenl]

• Check again for real or potential hazards. Watch out for motorcycles when completing a left turn. Motorists failing to identify oncoming motorcycles when making a left turn is a significant contributing factor in collisions involving motorcycles.

If you see in the video, there is a solid line, not a dotted line on the shoulder. So the motorcycle is both wrong and careless.

Its difficult to see a motorcycle that is coming in 100km/h + on the shoulder. Unless he has eyes like fly.. It's a good practice to turn with caution, but the motorcycle should also have braked when, as he was getting close to an intersection. There was a big yellow sign warning motorists to "SLOW DOWN".

Motorbike lane on the shoulder is always separated from rest if the road by a solid line.

[weka]

It's terrible driving/riding all round really.

Bike going too fast, should have been in the lane proper. Car ponderously turning with no indicator

Horrible to say but the bike rider caused the deaths (if that's true).

Another thing we've learned is there are some dangerously thick people contributing to this thread.

You hit someone from a position behind in this country, you better expect to be at fault - everybody who drives here knows that drivers only pay attention to what's in front of them

Edited February 15, 2016 by weka

[ChesneyHawkes]

A few points to add (some mentioned already)

1. Car seemed to have slowed down at least 40m ahead of the bike to turn. At this approximate distance, would we say the driver didn't look back far enough?

2. There was a car obscuring the bike's view so that is a mitigating factor for both parties

3. The lane does end at the point where the car was turning, but even if it didn't the bike should have taken steps to slow down at every turn. I do this in my car at u-turn locations as it's a riskier.

4. Police box outside my office, popped in and showed them the video. They said the bike isn't actually supposed to use that lane, and the slow lane should have been used by the bike. The car could have crossed into the hard shoulder earlier to prevent this accident.

5. The bike was sufficiently elevated to have seen what was coming up ahead unless they weren't paying attention, I saw no attempt to avoid the collision because they drove in a straight line until the impact and the brake lights on the bike (if they even were working at the time) never came on.

6. There was also a flashing amber sign just before the turn which indicated that they should be careful at that turn.

7. Passenger and no helmet, who's fault is that?

[alanrchase]

• Check again for real or potential hazards. Watch out for motorcycles when completing a left turn. Motorists failing to identify oncoming motorcycles when making a left turn is a significant contributing factor in collisions involving motorcycles.

If you see in the video, there is a solid line, not a dotted line on the shoulder. So the motorcycle is both wrong and careless.

Its difficult to see a motorcycle that is coming in 100km/h + on the shoulder. Unless he has eyes like fly.. It's a good practice to turn with caution, but the motorcycle should also have braked when, as he was getting close to an intersection. There was a big yellow sign warning motorists to "SLOW DOWN".

Motorbike lane on the shoulder is always separated from rest if the road by a solid line.

Where is it written that the shoulder is the "motorbike lane". Last place you will find me riding my motorbike. Full of parked cars, open drains and gravel.

[cumgranosalum]

Legal or not - the bike rider has a duty to stay alive. This means pay attention. He did not. School of hard knocks. "But it was not my fault !!!" Heard in a graveyard near you.

"School of Hard Knocks" - isn't that the mythical school that is believed to be real by people who have lost all their sense due to hard knocks? An annex of the equally mythical University of Life?

Edited February 15, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[stevenl]

• Check again for real or potential hazards. Watch out for motorcycles when completing a left turn. Motorists failing to identify oncoming motorcycles when making a left turn is a significant contributing factor in collisions involving motorcycles.

If you see in the video, there is a solid line, not a dotted line on the shoulder. So the motorcycle is both wrong and careless.

Its difficult to see a motorcycle that is coming in 100km/h + on the shoulder. Unless he has eyes like fly.. It's a good practice to turn with caution, but the motorcycle should also have braked when, as he was getting close to an intersection. There was a big yellow sign warning motorists to "SLOW DOWN".

Motorbike lane on the shoulder is always separated from rest if the road by a solid line.

Where is it written that the shoulder is the "motorbike lane". Last place you will find me riding my motorbike. Full of parked cars, open drains and gravel.

Please read, I did not say that.

[ardokano]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Where you see shoulder?

Please come to Thailand and i can show HOW look motoline:)

You so funy.

[Don Mega]

what is motoline ?.

This pushbike is riding on the hard shoulder, it is not a designated lane.

[canthai55]

"School of Hard Knocks" - isn't that the mythical school that is believed to be real by people who have lost all their sense due to hard knocks? An annex of the equally mythical University of Life?

school of hard knocks

Life itself; knowledge (and wisdom) gained by working for it, and not necessarily from a book.

You can learn more common sense from the school of hard knocks, than from most any university.

[Karlo]

take your dash cam recording to the nearest police station where the accident happened and let the police and insurance companies experts decide who was at fault..... I only hope the riders on the motorbike survived but it looked a very bad collision.

[ChesneyHawkes]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Where you see shoulder?

Please come to Thailand and i can show HOW look motoline:)

You so funy.

It is not a lane for motorbikes, it is called a hard-shoulder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)

Whether motorcycles use the hard shoulder is irrelevant, the fact that they are not supposed to use that lane is the only thing that matters.

[stevenl]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Where you see shoulder?

Please come to Thailand and i can show HOW look motoline:)

You so funy.

It is not a lane for motorbikes, it is called a hard-shoulder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)

Whether motorcycles use the hard shoulder is irrelevant, the fact that they are not supposed to use that lane is the only thing that matters.

Very commonly in Thailand that is the motorbike lane. Why do you determine in this case it is not?

[alanrchase]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Where you see shoulder?

Please come to Thailand and i can show HOW look motoline:)

You so funy.

It is not a lane for motorbikes, it is called a hard-shoulder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)

Whether motorcycles use the hard shoulder is irrelevant, the fact that they are not supposed to use that lane is the only thing that matters.

Very commonly in Thailand that is the motorbike lane. Why do you determine in this case it is not?

Very commonly in Thailand the shoulder is used by motorbikes but it is not a motorbike lane . If the rider in th OP had been on the road he would not have hit the car.

[Don Mega]

How do you guys mess up qoutes so badly ?

[Fookhaht]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

Where you see shoulder?

Please come to Thailand and i can show HOW look motoline:)

You so funy.

It is not a lane for motorbikes, it is called a hard-shoulder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_(road)

Whether motorcycles use the hard shoulder is irrelevant, the fact that they are not supposed to use that lane is the only thing that matters.

Very commonly in Thailand that is the motorbike lane. Why do you determine in this case it is not?

Very commonly in Thailand the shoulder is used by motorbikes but it is not a motorbike lane . If the rider in th OP had been on the road he would not have hit the car.

I just completed a 2,000km road trip, and 99% of motorbikes were traveling on the hard shoulder, not in a designated traffic lane. And yes, the shoulder is dangerous--obstacles, chuckholes, parked cars, etc.

Indeed, if a motorbike is traveling in the regular "car lane" and not up to speed, they are hounded and bullied by cars, trucks, and busses to get out of the main traffic lane. These are 99% low-powered "motor scooters" actually.

There is no safe place for motorbikes, unless you have a high-powered motorcycle that can travel up-to-speed in the regular traffic lanes. Even then, you're considered at the bottom of the food chain (read: "no respect" or equal road rights).

All reasons for why Thailand is #2 in road fatalities.