Kalasin Accident

[cumgranosalum]

Wow you guys really are incredible.

Best we just agree to disagree.

good luck with it all.

Here's some non-specific info on usage of the shoulder of the road

• In some urban areas, shoulders are used as travel lanes during peak commuting hours.
• In some rural areas without sidewalks, pedestrians and cyclists may be allowed to walk or ride on the shoulders.

- wiki

[kkerry]

Undertaking a line of cars on a bike, at a speed faster than most of the cars are traveling at, is putting yourself at unnecessary risk as the video shows.

[cumgranosalum]

Undertaking a line of cars on a bike, at a speed faster than most of the cars are traveling at, is putting yourself at unnecessary risk as the video shows.

Undertaking is not illegal in the UK as many think and they then try to apply the same conventions over here - a hallmark of a bad driver?

I do have a copy of the Thai highway code - if you can show me where it says it is illegal in Thailand, I would be interested, but it still doesn't alter the reality of the situation; the fact is that if you are driving slowly in the nearside lane in Thailand there is EVERY chance you will be passed on the inside by a motorcycle or even a car - to disregard this is just foolhardy.

what the video shows is not clear - accepting video evidence is NEVER as simple as some seem to think.

[canthai55]

Undertaking a line of cars on a bike, at a speed faster than most of the cars are traveling at, is putting yourself at unnecessary risk as the video shows.

+1 Try to mitigate the risk as much as you can. Especially when riding a bike. In that situation I always keep an eye on the front wheels. If you watch them, you have a little more time to react as you can see which direction the car is turning. Bike should have got behind the car and passed on his right. Looks like he will have lots of time to contemplate his bad decision, if he lived.

[ardokano]

So that far left white line dictates that is a motoline (what ever that is, never heard it before. Is it spose to be lane instead of line ?) as well as the sign obviously.

In the OP's vid that far left line does not exist so we can now put this to bed, the bike rider was not in anyway riding in a motoline.

Thankyou for the image.

Pleas look better video.

Ofcouse i can do photo from video and show one more proof my point.

But sorry can I see some proof from you point.

Becouse proof only by one side it not discusion with respect.

Ps

1 I just few day come back from Kalasin , so I see road.

2. In Thailand almast Big (head)road with two way and(or) few line,separated by a border , had motoline.

3. In Thailand be in fault motorider if drive in car line if have motoline.

And ofcouse all this is you know if know Thailand road laws. And drived in Thailand road.

Sorry but I do not see SURE scooter

Broken any road rules.

Just can say MAY be its be out speedlimit.

But Car be SURE 100% wrong. Becouse MUST give way go vehicle from another line before turn. Even can stop for this is.

And what do this is car, its CUT!!!

So.

1. CAR 100% broken rules,car 100% wrong with out atention drive.

2. Scooter MAY BE broken rules(if have proof about speed limit),scooter wrong drive even not try avoid.

3. Even if scooter be double down speed I am Not sure can avoid accident

And one more photo.

Edited February 16, 2016 by seedy
rotate foto

[kkerry]

Question for Tim16.

What speed were most of the cars in the video traveling at, and what speed do you think the bike was doing?

Do you know the speed limit for that stretch of road?

[bearpolar]

There must be a lower speed limit for the bike lane. Makes no sense to have a bike lane and bikes going from 20kph to 120kph.

[ardokano]

There must be a lower speed limit for the bike lane. Makes no sense to have a bike lane and bikes going from 20kph to 120kph.

Why no sense?

In German had bike line with out limit speed.

Sense line bike not for speed. Sense its becouse bike some times ot ease look from car. And can cut . And ofcouse bike can cut.

[ardokano]

Question for Tim16.

What speed were most of the cars in the video traveling at, and what speed do you think the bike was doing?

Do you know the speed limit for that stretch of road?

I gues is Town road. So speedlimit 50kmph..

And in my opinion car to be out speed limit.

Ps

I never see in Thailand ANY road all vehicle be in speedlimit

.

[seedy]

one Post edited - rotate foto

Ensure that your pictures are right way up when posting

[Fookhaht]

OP should go to the police with the video. The car driver needs to face the consequences of his/her reckless behavior at the wheel.

[losworld]

Clearly the understanding of road rules is something that escapes you. Not me.

Show me any article where can change line, return. turn and not give go another vehical?

show me any article of the law that violated the motorcyclist, except MAY BE out speedlimit?

Show me any article where moto in moto line must braking and give turn car from another line, or change line , or return.

And i am sure this question has in test DL in many place.

Show me where in the traffic law that the hard shoulder is a lane for motorbikes/scooters.

If you haven't figured this out by now you are in serious trouble. Anyone driving solely by the "road book" here will be dead in a day.

[bearpolar]

just got my licence today and the motorbike had no right to be overttaking by the left in that situation according to the laws stated there.

[cumgranosalum]

just got my licence today and the motorbike had no right to be overttaking by the left in that situation according to the laws stated there

I think you need to cite which laws you are referring to.

[cumgranosalum]

My guess - yes guess - is that the motorcyclist saw the car slowing but there was no signal? Therefore he (rather stupidly maybe) assumed he could continue and pass on the inside.......he may also have thought the car - which may have just passed him knew he was there and wouldn't make a turn until he had passed through according to the give way to the left rule?

[losworld]

My guess - yes guess - is that the motorcyclist saw the car slowing but there was no signal? Therefore he (rather stupidly maybe) assumed he could continue and pass on the inside.......he may also have thought the car - which may have just passed him knew he was there and wouldn't make a turn until he had passed through according to the give way to the left rule?

Very possible. The first rule here is there are no rules. They pass on all crazy sides. All I can say is drive as defensively as possible.

[cumgranosalum]

My guess - yes guess - is that the motorcyclist saw the car slowing but there was no signal? Therefore he (rather stupidly maybe) assumed he could continue and pass on the inside.......he may also have thought the car - which may have just passed him knew he was there and wouldn't make a turn until he had passed through according to the give way to the left rule?

Very possible. The first rule here is there are no rules. They pass on all crazy sides. All I can say is drive as defensively as possible.

Whereas the letter of the law certainly isn't enforced, there are established conventions.......whether legal or not, if you expect to drive in Thailand you need to be aware of them.

I don't really consider driving in Thailand is "crazy" - I think there are e many other factors involved that keep the death rate so high.

for instance it is quite clear on this thread that was even is or isn't road is up for debate.

I would be very reluctant to get in a car with a foreigner who keeps on declaring how crazy everyone else is........more of a reflection o how they drive than others.

[bearpolar]

the road isnt on google map's street view so can't check if its a motorcycle lane or not.. Hard to believe someone who you can barely understand

All i see is the shoulder ending at two spots unlike a motorbike lane and a black and white pole with a yellow flashing light on top signaling people to slow down because of a turn.

more indication that hes wrong:

Edited February 17, 2016 by bearpolar

[ardokano]

just got my licence today and the motorbike had no right to be overttaking by the left in that situation according to the laws stated there.

plese show me article.

Overtraking by the left it if NOT have line for moto.

If you IN line for moto you not care about speed another line

just not out speed limit at this is place road.

Edited February 17, 2016 by ardokano

[ardokano]

the road isnt on google map's street view so can't check if its a motorcycle lane or not.. Hard to believe someone who you can barely understand

All i see is the shoulder ending at two spots unlike a motorbike lane and a black and white pole with a yellow flashing light on top signaling people to slow down because of a turn.

more indication that hes wrong:

Sorry it may be first road with Two separate way(with few line for car) and not have line for moto..

before i never see.

I am already in Thailand 100k by car in ALL province. ANd near 20k buy scooter(fino,click,psx,forza etc) moped(CBR.15,250,300 etc) or bike .

just week ago be in Kalasin. And for al this is time NEVER see same road with out motoline!!!

for exampe some part road from amphun to Chiang Mai.. motoline look simular but its stil motoline. and just 3 week ago my frien pay some pocket money for police officer becouse not use motoline

Edited February 17, 2016 by ardokano

[ardokano]

My guess - yes guess - is that the motorcyclist saw the car slowing but there was no signal? Therefore he (rather stupidly maybe) assumed he could continue and pass on the inside.......he may also have thought the car - which may have just passed him knew he was there and wouldn't make a turn until he had passed through according to the give way to the left rule?

often I see when the car first then begins to turn and AFTER on signal or for 1-2 seconds before turning(chenge line. if you forget to copy a record from the camera then lay out on YouTube. I see it almost every trip.

Im many country it cal "cutting".

but in Thailan it be like norma.

We cant change Thai people mind

i be litle sad have many farang think is normal no give way go from another line vehicle( cutting)

[Don Mega]

the road isnt on google map's street view so can't check if its a motorcycle lane or not.. Hard to believe someone who you can barely understand

All i see is the shoulder ending at two spots unlike a motorbike lane and a black and white pole with a yellow flashing light on top signaling people to slow down because of a turn.

more indication that hes wrong:

Sorry it may be first road with Two separate way(with few line for car) and not have line for moto..

so it is not a bike lane then...

Surprise surprise.

[ardokano]

[

so it is not a bike lane then...

Surprise surprise.

if its not bike lane i be big surprised.

Because its be first time this is type road in Thailand with out bike lane:)

Show me where is it?

May be next week i be in Kalasin want see this is "special road"

But guess its be road with motoline:)

Even i can beting about this is.

[bearpolar]

its not a bike lane 90% sure

ardokano, i dont understand most of what you say but if your 100k km is your reasoning for being the most knowledgeable about the roads, i have over 300k km in thailand on a car, and close to the same on bikes and back home im licenced to drive a bus, a 18 wheeler and cars

I have never had an accident as a driver. I have been hit in stand still traffic while being in the middle of a lane by a drunk driver that was stopped behind me, that doesn't count as an accident to me.

Im also sure there's other people more qualified than i am on this forum.

The bike was completely in the wrong, the car is simply a simpleton that made a mini mistake.

There's two instance(as said in today's video at the licence office) by the law where overtaking by the left is permited, DRIVING FASTER ON THE LEFT THAN CARS ON YOUR RIGHT IS CONSIDERED OVERTAKING.

In this video we are not shown one of those instance.

[ardokano]

its not a bike lane 90% sure

ardokano, i dont understand most of what you say but if your 100k km is your reasoning for being the most knowledgeable about the roads, i have over 300k km in thailand on a car, and close to the same on bikes and back home im licenced to drive a bus, a 18 wheeler and cars

I have never had an accident as a driver. I have been hit in stand still traffic while being in the middle of a lane by a drunk driver that was stopped behind me, that doesn't count as an accident to me.

Im also sure there's other people more qualified than i am on this forum.

The bike was completely in the wrong, the car is simply a simpleton that made a mini mistake.

There's two instance(as said in today's video at the licence office) by the law where overtaking by the left is permited, DRIVING FASTER ON THE LEFT THAN CARS ON YOUR RIGHT IS CONSIDERED OVERTAKING.

In this video we are not shown one of those instance.

1. reason I am say about 100k km its just one. I do not know is much or not, but I never see same type road as on video without motoline.

2.overtaking by left YES in Thailand it Permised but it in line road. But special line as bus or moto its posible driving faster then right line. Its easy explain.

If have two line car must by right line overtaking.

But bike if have motoline cant go another line. So bike Cant overtaking right side line.

And if any car have speed 20kmph its not mean bike cant be faster in moto line.

Please. Give me article about overtaking.

I am sure you some misunderstanding.

And last.

overtaking in different place its diferrent meaning.

In Russia for example overtaking it if you change line

If you in same line but only speed faster than another line car its not overtaking.

Edited February 17, 2016 by ardokano

[bearpolar]

the speed limit in city is usualy 60kph. The bike was going 85+ in the hard shoulder

stop arguing, the world is safer with that guy being a paraplegic and he broke many laws.

[richard_smith237]

It looks to me as though the shoulder of the road is just that. But, it could be a motorcycle lane - I don't think so though.

That said, it has become the norm for motorcycles to ride down these lanes, anyone with experience driving here will be looking out for a motorcycle driving up the inside.

IF it is a motorcycle lane, the motorcycle should not be undertaking moving traffic - the motorcyclist has committed the office.

IF it is a motorcycle lane, the motorcycle has crossed a solid white line - the motorcyclist has committed the office.

IF it is a motorcycle lane, the motorcycle was riding too fast, apparently exceeding speedliits ? (debatable).

IF it isn't a motorcycle lane, the motorcyclist was committing an offence.

Additionally: IF it is a motorcycle lane, then it should be marked with a 'stop sign' and solid white line at each junction to the left.

Legalities out of the way - Traffic in Thailand has often been described like flowing water without regard for regulations.

Legally or not, its universally accepted in Thailand and has become the norm for motorcyclists to ride up the inside shoulder. In fact its not uncommon for motorcyclists to be riding in either direction along the inside shoulder.

This is especially dangerous when a car is pulling out onto a dual carriage way and noses out across this shoulder looking right towards the oncoming traffic, I've had to stop in the past as a motocylist was approaching from the left on the wrong side of the road on one of these shoulder-lanes.

In Bangkok the motorcyclists ride down the pavement, when turning left in Bangkok (on Rama IV) in busy traffic this adds extra risk - while making a left turn we have to ensure that there are no motorcyclists riding down the pavement.

This is all nuts and just shows how careless the driving is in Thailand - many many motorcyclists ride around without any consideration for their own safety.

In this case: The car wasn't paying a great deal of attention to his surroundings (as many driver in Thailand fail to do). That said, it looks quite clear that the while the car clearly plays a roll in the accident, the motorcyclist is at fault.

To avoid the accident - the car should have 'eased over to the left' while indicating to protect his line and make his intentions clear - driving defensively. BUT, a motorcycle driving so carelessly may have simply rear-ended the car !!!... who would be at fault then? the motorcycle IMO.

IF it was a parked car would the motorcycle have hit it ? maybe...

I can't see how this isn't the motorcyclists fault.

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming post removed

Keep the personal attacks off this Forum

[Don Mega]

[

so it is not a bike lane then...

Surprise surprise.

if its not bike lane i be big surprised.

Because its be first time this is type road in Thailand with out bike lane:)

Spend some time on google maps street view and you will find a bike lane is not as common as you make it out to be. Infact I will go as far as saying a bike lane is a rare occurance in Thailand.

[Assurancetourix]

Car is at fault, can not turn left without making sure the road is clear. It does not matter whether or not he indicated.

Nonsence, the lane had finished as Kartman said.Both at fault Mini Car driver was clearly hovering, and Bike didnt appraise the situation due to his speed and stupidity.

Does not matter whether the lane was finished or not. Unless you think all motorbike riders are required to move onto the next lane when their lane is finished because the lines have changed'. Car lovers may not be happy with this, but that does not change the fact that the motorbike was legally in the right and the car in the wrong. But of course the bikerider could have avoided this.

No, you are wrong ;

the driver of the motorbike is at fault;

the car is far in front of him;

so he must do attention at was is in front of him;

For occidental police it's 100% the fault of the motorbike;

BUT for occidental insurance the driver of the car has some responsability .

It's not the same reasoning .

After writting that, we are in Thailand where the highway code does exist only on a paper ..;

on the roads, it's often the biggest who can do what he wants even there are dead people after that;

so as I'm a cyclist nearly every day on thai roads ( again 91 km yesterday) I do attention at all is with me on the roads;

for example when arriving near the entrance of a supermarket or a benzine station, I'm NEVER in the line of the slow vehicles but in the middle of the left lane;

so the vehicles who want to enter the supermarket or the benzine station must stay behind me if they want to turn left .

Edited February 18, 2016 by Assurancetourix