Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[biplanebluey]

I know this has not a connection with the OP but as people keep posting peculiar replies I feel I must add an important reply to the facts (?????) concerning David being found on the beach.I saw a picture of David lying with his face up---- Extremely horrific-----Very plain to see the terrible injuries inflicted,making him almost unrecognizable----- almost as if from someone in a violent rage and this did not in any way show the face of a man who had spent the night on a beach with the constant tide washing over him------- I did not want to drag this sort of thing up again but this pic has left a long lasting impression on me to the extent that I really want to see the REAL killer or killers found and treated accordingly

[darren84310]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

and they will kill again, if they haven't done so already.

[smedly]

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.

They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.

They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.

They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.

So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.

Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.

Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

That is a highly false and misleading statement and you know it

The Brit experts did not conclusively prove anything apart from confirm that an IMEI "Thai police provided" belonged to David Millars phone, it is the Thai police that are claiming this IMEI number belonged to a phone found at B2 residence, they have still yet to explain or investigate who the phone found at the crime secene belonged too and verify its IMEI, that is a massive failure and just adds to the doubts and speculation people have concerning the police investigation and subsequent conviction

[KunMatt]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

We know that he didn't die quickly, as when he was dragged out into the surf he must have still been breathing as he died from drowning (the autopsy found water in his lungs).

That's not what I asked at all. Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand another post again or are you just confused again?

[greenchair]

Smedly, how many phones do you think were just lying around on the beach for Wei Phyo to find at 4 oclock in the morning, after a horrific double murder just took place.

So now you want to believe some party goer just happened to leave their phone on the beach.

I'm running out of legs to pull.

The phone is David's get over it.

[JLCrab]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

and they will kill again, if they haven't done so already.

Maybe since the Brits have been so helpful to his cause he will choose to move to London. Daddy could buy him a football club, well a low ranking one, anyway.

[smedly]

greenchair, on 17 Feb 2016 - 11:35, said:

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.
They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.
They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.
They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.
So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.
Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.
Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

smedly replied quote -

That is a highly false and misleading statement and you know it

The Brit experts did not conclusively prove anything apart from confirm that an IMEI "Thai police provided" belonged to David Millars phone, it is the Thai police that are claiming this IMEI number belonged to a phone found at B2 residence, they have still yet to explain or investigate who the phone found at the crime scene belonged too and verify its IMEI, that is a massive failure and just adds to the doubts and speculation people have concerning the police investigation and subsequent conviction

Smedly, how many phones do you think were just lying around on the beach for Wei Phyo to find at 4 oclock in the morning, after a horrific double murder just took place.
So now you want to believe some party goer just happened to leave their phone on the beach.
I'm running out of legs to pull.
The phone is David's get over it.

you are entitled to believe what you want, the fact is 2 iphones were found on the beach confirmed by police, one at the crime scene and one at B2 residence, there is no evidence supporting the claim by Thai police that the IMEI number they had checked in the UK belonged to the phone found at the residence of B2 plus the police have failed to identify or investigate the other phone which according to them is the one found at the crime scene that seemingly doesn't have Davids IMEI number, if you cannot see that there something massively wrong with this then you are indeed deluded

Plus the fact that no tests for fingerprints or dna were carried out on either of these phones is quite honestly ludicrous unless there is something you don't want to see, and what is even more ludicrous is the fact that the defence cannot call both these phones into evidence unless the police submit them, if a phone is found at the crime scene it is automatically evidence no matter how you spin it, along with clothes - photos - all cctv etc etc, when police willfully withhold evidence then they covering something up - in the west they would be criminally investigated and could end up in jail for withholding/concealing/hiding critical evidence that would effect their prosecution case

and don't bother with a reply - you have made your point, we are all aware of what you want to believe

[catsanddogs]

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.

They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.

They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.

They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.

So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.

Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.

Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

That is a highly false and misleading statement and you know it

The Brit experts did not conclusively prove anything apart from confirm that an IMEI "Thai police provided" belonged to David Millars phone, it is the Thai police that are claiming this IMEI number belonged to a phone found at B2 residence, they have still yet to explain or investigate who the phone found at the crime secene belonged too and verify its IMEI, that is a massive failure and just adds to the doubts and speculation people have concerning the police investigation and subsequent conviction

And for the 100th time the Norfolk Coroner DID NOT say Hannah was raped. She said she was sexually assaulted. Everyone on here seems to be aware that that is a difference between rape and sexual assault apart from GC. Chances are there wasn't any semen in Hannah from her attackers but it just fitted with the RTP and 'others' story.

Edited February 17, 2016 by catsanddogs

[lucky11]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

Yes, I believe that Hannagh's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious.

[JLCrab]

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

Edited February 17, 2016 by JLCrab

[fab99]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

Yes, I believe that Hannagh's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious.

I guess you also believe santa is real then...

Seriously, I struggle, like the majority here, to understand how the multiple small wounds on David are consistent with those of Hannah, there is nothing in common, how could you do cuts like these with a hoe?

Why wasn't it more developped and scrutinized, by the defense particularly?

The prosecution didn't have pictures to provide by the way if you can remember, lack of budget...

That and the fact that there is no Blood from David on the hoe (but he seems to have hold the weapon as there was his DNA on the handle), makes it more than doubtful that there was only one weapon...

What DID really kill David?

This case is so screwed up, it makes you want to shout, if you care for justice at all...

[JLCrab]

... or what do I believe?

I believe for every drop of rain that falls

A flower grows

I believe that somewhere in the darkest night

A candle glows

I believe for everyone who goes astray, someone will come

To show the way

I believe, I believe

[lucky11]

"Why wasn't it more developed and scrutinised, by the defense particularly"?

Good question!!

[Lancashireman]

Yes, he was unconscious.

He drowned as we have been informed, possibly further assaulted as he did so. This act was probably simultaneous to the assault on the girl, so therefore, (repeating what I have said before)...

'In my humble opinion, I think the two lads were at the very least, witnesses to the crime, or the build up to it.

The bar, the alcohol, the drugs, the girls, the locals, the thrill of the hunt, the chase, the testosterone, the conquest, the prize...then the realisation that someone knew something was wrong!

Easy to cloud ones memory, just need to erase the potentials, insert the possibles, and pack them off to a plausible injustice...

The courts have the last word, as we know...'

Interesting to read though, the rather skewed accounts from amateur sleuths...

On the phone 'ID', so what? Doesn't prove any one or more persons were the guilty party, notwithstanding confessions or retractions, both of which have been examined expertly by TV/CSI.

[stephenterry]

So far the brits have been quite limited in how much they can divulge about this case.

So far they have confirmed, yes indeed the 2nd victim was raped,in contrast to andy and defense team allegations that the UK autopsy did not show rape.

Secondly, the brit investigators have revealed that the phone found at the b2 apartment does indeed belong to David.

Who knows what other little tidbits they have but cannot reveal.

Hope those "real killers"from Thai visa come forward soon ".

Why don't you troll elsewhere. You're a pathetic pain in the arse.

[stephenterry]

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

Bullshit. The court clearly got that wrong. But what do you expect here. Always side with the Thai version.

[lucky11]

So far the brits have been quite limited in how much they can divulge about this case.

So far they have confirmed, yes indeed the 2nd victim was raped,in contrast to andy and defense team allegations that the UK autopsy did not show rape.

Secondly, the brit investigators have revealed that the phone found at the b2 apartment does indeed belong to David.

Who knows what other little tidbits they have but cannot reveal.

Hope those "real killers"from Thai visa come forward soon ".

Why don't you troll elsewhere. You're a pathetic pain in the arse.

Why do you attempt to label everything that you don't like (as it doesn't fit in with your views) as trolling?

Are you trying to stifle the 'written word'? that is not exactly democratic. is it.

Seems you like to have conversations/discussions on your terms and under your set of rules!! Let her have her say without the attempted interference tactics that you like to employ when you can see that you are losing the credibility battle. She is as much a troll as you are so either you are both trolling or neither of you are, make your mind up as to which it is, but stop the unjustified and unneccessary accusations please.

[JLCrab]

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

Bullshit. The court clearly got that wrong. But what do you expect here. Always side with the Thai version.

I don't side with anything. That was the opinion of the Court with jurisdiction. If it was clearly in error, then the defense should have no problem finding a qualified forensic pathologist for their Appeal to make the case otherwise.

Edited February 17, 2016 by JLCrab

[smedly]

It is all about common sense which appears to be lacking in some posters and a couple are downright shameful trying to twist facts - manufacture lies and post constant misinformation.

There nothing new going on here that hasn't already been done hundreds of times over on multiple threads

[smedly]

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

Bullshit. The court clearly got that wrong. But what do you expect here. Always side with the Thai version.

I don't side with anything. That was the opinion of the Court with jurisdiction. If it was clearly in error, then the defense should have no problem finding a qualified forensic pathologist for their Appeal to make the case otherwise.

there was nothing submitted for the defence to contest only an unqualified statement from police without producing evidence - if it wasn't so serious it is actually hilarious how things got as far as they did

[stander]

So far the brits have been quite limited in how much they can divulge about this case.

So far they have confirmed, yes indeed the 2nd victim was raped,in contrast to andy and defense team allegations that the UK autopsy did not show rape.

Secondly, the brit investigators have revealed that the phone found at the b2 apartment does indeed belong to David.

Who knows what other little tidbits they have but cannot reveal.

Hope those "real killers"from Thai visa come forward soon ".

Why don't you troll elsewhere. You're a pathetic pain in the arse.

Why do you attempt to label everything that you don't like (as it doesn't fit in with your views) as trolling?

Are you trying to stifle the 'written word'? that is not exactly democratic. is it.

Seems you like to have conversations/discussions on your terms and under your set of rules!! Let her have her say without the attempted interference tactics that you like to employ when you can see that you are losing the credibility battle. She is as much a troll as you are so either you are both trolling or neither of you are, make your mind up as to which it is, but stop the unjustified and unneccessary accusations please.

The troll/shill labelling by the not guilty camp says a lot about their mindset. They just can’t face up to the fact that their arguments have fallen apart and that justice has been served.

I find it difficult to understand their empathy towards the killers, but that is their prerogative and I respect it.

[JLCrab]

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

Bullshit. The court clearly got that wrong. But what do you expect here. Always side with the Thai version.

I don't side with anything. That was the opinion of the Court with jurisdiction. If it was clearly in error, then the defense should have no problem finding a qualified forensic pathologist for their Appeal to make the case otherwise.

there was nothing submitted for the defence to contest only an unqualified statement from police without producing evidence - if it wasn't so serious it is actually hilarious how things got as far as they did

Well now they have 7 more days to submit an appeal that says they have nothing for them to appeal.

[KunMatt]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

Yes, I believe that Hannagh's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious.

I guess you also believe santa is real then...

Seriously, I struggle, like the majority here, to understand how the multiple small wounds on David are consistent with those of Hannah, there is nothing in common, how could you do cuts like these with a hoe?

Why wasn't it more developped and scrutinized, by the defense particularly?

The prosecution didn't have pictures to provide by the way if you can remember, lack of budget...

That and the fact that there is no Blood from David on the hoe (but he seems to have hold the weapon as there was his DNA on the handle), makes it more than doubtful that there was only one weapon...

What DID really kill David?

This case is so screwed up, it makes you want to shout, if you care for justice at all...

I'm sure many members know what a Thai hoe is like, I've used one many times to smash up solid concrete driveways and demolish walls etc. For anyone who has never held one before they are basically a heavy lump hammer with a wide sharp blade on it. If you were to hit someone over the head with one it would slice through their skull like a melon just like the injuries which Hannah got. If you hit someone a dozen times with one, it would definitely not cause small lacerations that would only maybe knock someone out like David got. So David was not killed by the same weapon which killed Hannah, so the verdict from the trial is wrong about that.

[Khun Han]

As I've stated before, the judgement has so many factual errors it's the legal equivalent of a Swiss cheese. And that's before one starts on the absurd suppositions contained in it that no judge in a proper court would attempt. There was a palpable desperation in that judgement to find the B2 guilty.

[JLCrab]

As I've stated before, the judgement has so many factual errors it's the legal equivalent of a Swiss cheese. And that's before one starts on the absurd suppositions contained in it that no judge in a proper court would attempt. There was a palpable desperation in that judgement to find the B2 guilty.

You and the other khun can state all you want. Right now the 2 Burmese stand convicted of murder by a court with jurisdiction. Unless somehow someone wants to make the case that the Court did not in fact have jurisdiction, then there is now an appeal process in place and I don't know that an appeal consists of telling the Appeals Court how absurd was the verdict of the Samui Court.

I hope the 2 Burmese have something going for them better than that.

[KunMatt]

As I've stated before, the judgement has so many factual errors it's the legal equivalent of a Swiss cheese. And that's before one starts on the absurd suppositions contained in it that no judge in a proper court would attempt. There was a palpable desperation in that judgement to find the B2 guilty.

You and the other khun can state all you want. Right now the 2 Burmese stand convicted of murder by a court with jurisdiction. Unless somehow someone wants to make the case that the Court did not in fact have jurisdiction, then there is now an appeal process in place and I don't know that an appeal consists of telling the Appeals Court how absurd was the verdict of the Samui Court.

I hope the 2 Burmese have something going for them better than that.

Yes you are totally right in what you say. I think the reason for so much debate on here is because certain members take joy about the incompetent investigation and gloat about the disgraceful verdict. I know it makes no difference to the fate of the B2 but being a decent person I feel like I have to at least challenge the appalling members who are only here to make a mockery of these threads and post LOL and emoticons about it all.

[Khun Han]

And on and on and on he goes with his inane comments. 'It's the Thai courts who will decide, not Thai Visa Forum'. Ya don't say? Well knock me down with a feather duster! Thai Visa had better stop posting all these news stories on the subject and allowing us to discuss it then, hadn't they.

No wonder most of Twitter has him on block.

[boomerangutang]

Smedly, how many phones do you think were just lying around on the beach for Wei Phyo to find at 4 oclock in the morning, after a horrific double murder just took place.

So now you want to believe some party goer just happened to leave their phone on the beach.

I'm running out of legs to pull.

The phone is David's get over it.

A phone was reportedly found at the crime scene. Is it the same one which was found at the B2's? If so, it was planted. No one except you is talking about someone ''just happened to leave their phone on the beach." However, when people are fighting, it's quite possible for a phone to get dislodged.

From the Koh Samui Summary Court Judgment 25 DEC 2015:

The facts and circumstances arising from the case presented by the Prosecutor appears that (Mr. Miller) was harmed at the scene at almost the same period of time as the actions committed to the (Ms. Witheridge) and the first victim died subsequently. The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim (Mr. Miller) also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe.

You can quote the subjective court judgement until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make its findings factual or reasonable.

I don't side with anything. That was the opinion of the Court with jurisdiction. If it was clearly in error, then the defense should have no problem finding a qualified forensic pathologist for their Appeal to make the case otherwise.

"....the defense should have no problem..."

Gimme a break. The defense has all sorts of problems, for one big reason: The court isn't 'blind' or 'objective'. It would be like going to a KKK rally and passing the hat for a gay wedding involving illegal Aids-infected aliens from Somalia and a Ghana. It just ain't gonna happen.

[greenchair]

So far the brits have been quite limited in how much they can divulge about this case.

So far they have confirmed, yes indeed the 2nd victim was raped,in contrast to andy and defense team allegations that the UK autopsy did not show rape.

Secondly, the brit investigators have revealed that the phone found at the b2 apartment does indeed belong to David.

Who knows what other little tidbits they have but cannot reveal.

Hope those "real killers"from Thai visa come forward soon ".

Why don't you troll elsewhere. You're a pathetic pain in the arse.

Why do you attempt to label everything that you don't like (as it doesn't fit in with your views) as trolling?

Are you trying to stifle the 'written word'? that is not exactly democratic. is it.

Seems you like to have conversations/discussions on your terms and under your set of rules!! Let her have her say without the attempted interference tactics that you like to employ when you can see that you are losing the credibility battle. She is as much a troll as you are so either you are both trolling or neither of you are, make your mind up as to which it is, but stop the unjustified and unneccessary accusations please.

The troll/shill labelling by the not guilty camp says a lot about their mindset. They just cant face up to the fact that their arguments have fallen apart and that justice has been served.

I find it difficult to understand their empathy towards the killers, but that is their prerogative and I respect it.

At the end of the day their best arguments about the possession of the victims phone are to call me names.

They are not able to defend it on thai visa and they were not able to defend it in court either. Hence, the case was lost.

[greenchair]

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.

They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.

They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.

They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.

So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.

Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.

Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

That is a highly false and misleading statement and you know it

The Brit experts did not conclusively prove anything apart from confirm that an IMEI "Thai police provided" belonged to David Millars phone, it is the Thai police that are claiming this IMEI number belonged to a phone found at B2 residence, they have still yet to explain or investigate who the phone found at the crime secene belonged too and verify its IMEI, that is a massive failure and just adds to the doubts and speculation people have concerning the police investigation and subsequent conviction

And for the 100th time the Norfolk Coroner DID NOT say Hannah was raped. She said she was sexually assaulted. Everyone on here seems to be aware that that is a difference between rape and sexual assault apart from GC. Chances are there wasn't any semen in Hannah from her attackers but it just fitted with the RTP and 'others' story.

In the article that talked about Hannah's father going to the inquest, the coroner confirmed that yes she was raped.