Word Association (2024)

[tebee]

We are planning to return to the UK using Sundar Singh, but but circumstance outside our control mean we need to put it off for at least a year.

In case we have had Brexit before then, and that option has disappeared, I'm looking at other options as a contingency plan.

If we need to apply for a UK partner visa I have the problem that much of my income comes from royalties from internet sales and can vary wildly from month to month. We also have income from rental property, but at the moment only have 5 let out - of the others 2 we live in, 2 I'm still refurbishing and 2 are vacant. Added to which 2 of those that are let out are small thai condos that don't produce much income, so it's rather less that the 18k we need, once my wife stops working.

However, all but one of those houses we own outright, so we have reasonable amount of capital in them. We also have some shares and I have an endowment from the mortgage I used to have back in the UK. But I notice it says cash savings on the visa documents so am I to assume that none of that would count towards the capital requirements ?

The shares we could sell easily, but the French houses give us a good rate of return ( about 9%) and the Bangkok ones have proved very difficult to sell - after trying to sell the big house for 3 years the highest offer we got was 4.2 million compared with the 7.5 million asking price, have ended up letting it for the equivalent of £250 per month.

So are we going to need to sell a house or 2 so we have the cash? Don't really want to as we are not planning to buy soon in the UK - we want to rent at first as we are not sure where my wife and stepson will end up working - added to which we would get stung for capital gains on the French houses and lose about 8% charges buying and selling.

[7by7]

For full details of the requirement see Appendix FM Section 1.7 Financial Requirement

1) The income you receive from your royalties can be used if you meet the requirements of 9.5. Self-employment as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise – requirements and 9.6. Sole trader, partner or franchise – specified evidence.

Only your income can be used, not any income you wife has currently or her potential income once in the UK.

2) You can use the rent from your properties, both those in the UK and overseas; see 6.1. Category C: Non-employment income – requirements and 6.2. Property rental – further guidance.

3) Cash savings must be in cash in the name of you, your wife or you both jointly. They must have been in your possession and complete control for at least 6 months prior to the application. See 7 Cash savings and 7.5 Cash savings- specified evidence.

You can sell assets, such as property, to obtain the cash; provided you owned that asset at least 6 months before the application and have converted it to cash before the application.

But if you don't want to sell and instead want to use cash obtained by releasing equity in a property via a mortgage or similar then you need to have done this at least 6 months prior to applying.

4) As you may already be aware, the current minimum requirement for a spouse is;

• income of £18,600 p.a.or
• cash savings of £62,500

Some categories can be combined to reduce the amount of each required. Others, notably self employment income, cannot be.

See the appendix for details.

These are the current requirements. There is, of course, no guarantee that a future government wont change them; especially the minimum amounts required; which are based upon the level at which a British family of the same size would no longer be entitled to any income related benefits.

Hopefully this will all be academic for you anyway.

Edited February 18, 2016 by 7by7

[bobrussell]

I suspect we will just end up with tinkering at the edges. Surinder Singh will probably remain but there will be far more pressure to show true economic activity in the third party EU country.

Remaining for a few months doing odd bits of work, living in temporary accommodation will probably just not do!

I don't believe that freedom of movement will go whatever the result of a referendum. The UK will still have to work within European rules to a large extent.

Whilst I don't believe the immigration rules are particularly fair, I don't like the idea that some people can use a loophole to pretty much bypass national laws at will.

[7by7]

I don't believe that freedom of movement will go whatever the result of a referendum.

The freedom of movement regulations are an EEA thing, not an EU one. So the big question, of course, is if the UK leaves the EU will it also leave the EEA?

If we do also leave the EEA then unless, like Switzerland which is a member of neither has done, we can negotiate a free movement agreement with the EEA, then free movement rights for British citizens and their non EEA family members will go.

I see no point in leaving the EU but remaining in the EEA as doing so means we lose most of the advantages of EU membership but keep nearly all the disadvantages.

But that's a subject for another topic, of which there are already plenty in the News forum.

[HauptmannUK]

Closing down the Surinder Singh route is one of the things that form part of Cameron's 'renegotiation' with the EU. Leave or stay, I am sure the Surinder Singh route will be finished.

[Richard W]

Closing down the Surinder Singh route is one of the things that form part of Cameron's 'renegotiation' with the EU. Leave or stay, I am sure the Surinder Singh route will be finished.

Tebee's offered a mechanism to keep it going in the Surinder Singh thread - the 'Bulgarian route'.

[7by7]

If I've understood it correctly, the proposal isn't to abolish the Surinder Singh route, just make it more difficult and less open to abuse.

People, like the OP and his wife, who have been living and exercising an economic treaty right for a considerable period in another EEA country and have lawful residence there shouldn't be affected.

Of course, if the UK does leave the EU and also the EEA, then yes, all free movement rights in both for UK citizens and their families will go.

But if the UK leaves the EU, will it remain in the EEA? The freedom of movement regulations, including Surinder Singh, are EEA rules, not EU ones.

One of the main concerns of the British people about the EU is EU migrants (and of course EEA ones, but I doubt many know the difference and simply lump the two together). If the referendum result is for Brexit, imagine the furore if the government announces that we've left the EU according to the people's wishes, but we are staying in the EEA. So the freedom of movement regulations still apply and nothing in this area has changed!

[Richard W]

If I've understood it correctly, the proposal isn't to abolish the Surinder Singh route, just make it more difficult and less open to abuse.

People, like the OP and his wife, who have been living and exercising an economic treaty right for a considerable period in another EEA country and have lawful residence there shouldn't be affected.

If that is a moral obligation, I agree. If it's a deduction, then which part of "in order to exclude, from the scope of free movement rights, third country nationals who had no prior lawful residence in a Member State before marrying a Union citizen" don't you understand? That excludes Thailand-born Thais who marry an EU citizen before ever leaving Thailand.

If the referendum result is for Brexit, imagine the furore if the government announces that we've left the EU according to the people's wishes, but we are staying in the EEA. So the freedom of movement regulations still apply and nothing in this area has changed!

There's a UKIP tactical discussion which finds that an acceptable temporary half-way house. In the EEA but outside the EU, one can unilaterally invoke emergency provisions. Liechtenstein allows EEA nationals to work there freely, but there are restrictions on how many can reside there!