Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[George Harmony]

All these YouTube links must be fascinating to some (I haven't viewed any). The thing is, if any of this stuff was a viable solution, there would be a product and somebody trying to make money selling it. Otherwise... it's yada yada ridiculous and getting VERY BORING.

I dont pretend to make new inventions. Just trying to figure out how one can live more effective off grid. For example if i fill my water tank with a flow of 10-14 liter per minute perhaps i can use this also, a micro water generator 12v available here. Filling my tank and get a little bit power back. If i water my roof perhaps i can use a pelton also. If i shower perhaps the used water can later be used to flush my toilet. Etc. Etc. Etc....

Specs:

The output voltage :12V

Start pressure 0.05Mpa

Between the wire resistance 10.5 0.5

Insulation resistance 10M (DC100 megger )

The maximum pressure 0.6Mpa outlet closed

axial clearance 0.2-1.0mm

mechanical noise 55dB

generator life : 3000h

the amount of the Generator : 90g around

Appearance: generator surface clean , no rust, no scratches when significant , solid structure .

Everytime you open a crane you generate electricity ???, especially with the bar pressure of @naam hahahaha

Edited May 19, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

And sometimes @bankruatsteve commercial products can with a bit diy be more effective........

Added:

Just wondering why would a company produce just products?????

Edited May 19, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

Typo above:

I mean: Why would a company produce SUCH products...???

[Muhendis]

All these YouTube links must be fascinating to some (I haven't viewed any). The thing is, if any of this stuff was a viable solution, there would be a product and somebody trying to make money selling it. Otherwise... it's yada yada ridiculous and getting VERY BORING.

I dont pretend to make new inventions. Just trying to figure out how one can live more effective off grid. For example if i fill my water tank with a flow of 10-14 liter per minute perhaps i can use this also, a micro water generator 12v available here. Filling my tank and get a little bit power back. If i water my roof perhaps i can use a pelton also. If i shower perhaps the used water can later be used to flush my toilet. Etc. Etc. Etc....

Specs:

The output voltage :12V

Start pressure 0.05Mpa

Between the wire resistance 10.5 0.5

Insulation resistance 10M (DC100 megger )

The maximum pressure 0.6Mpa outlet closed

axial clearance 0.2-1.0mm

mechanical noise 55dB

generator life : 3000h

the amount of the Generator : 90g around

Appearance: generator surface clean , no rust, no scratches when significant , solid structure .

Everytime you open a crane you generate electricity ???, especially with the bar pressure of @naam hahahaha

George. I have to correct you "Just trying to figure out how one can live more effective off grid". It is more accurate to say you are trying to live off grid with the maximum that technology can offer. You are researching all sorts of interesting ideas which we all find most fascinating for one reason or another. Clearly you have a bit missing in the physics department but what a fun way to learn.

[George Harmony]

@muhendis,

Your are right ? ....

It was fun to learn a bit thai also. If you asked a thai:" Are you NOT stubborn. Whats the answer "YES" means????????

[Naam]

And sometimes @bankruatsteve commercial products can with a bit diy be more effective........

Added:

Just wondering why would a company produce just products?????

because there are always ignorants who spend money because they believe in the lies the marketing people spread. that applies to a huge range of products, from washing powder that washes whiter than any other detergent to secret chemical compounds which cure any ailment from stinking feet to cancer (he he he, ha ha ha).

[Jing Joe]

This invention is the spiral pump

that finally rings a [very faint] bell. but it must be half a century since that subject was briefly mentioned and that explains my "not the faintest indea".

In the rather long article I provided the URL for, the plumbing was done with just that; plumbago or lead and was heavy.

It said that the steam engine happened about then so the spiral pump faded away.

There are quite a few modern spiral pump YouTube examples/projects that would give the ram pump a run for the money, except for K.I.S. principle we have nearly all commented on here.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Jing Joe]

All these YouTube links must be fascinating to some (I haven't viewed any). The thing is, if any of this stuff was a viable solution, there would be a product and somebody trying to make money selling it. Otherwise... it's yada yada ridiculous and getting VERY BORING.

"ANY of this stuff was viable". ??

Rather than ask what you mean, there is a well worn phrase if one doesn't like whats on TV, are bored and yawning, simply push your off button. :-)

George asked a good question a record 43 pages back and many have stayed up watching, contributed to and even humbly learnt stuff too. Any who found it boring have already pushed the off button

I haven't had a power bill for 36 years and George has thanked me in private emails for suggestions, many associated challenges have been discussed, George has probably learnt more about physics than anyone, others have learnt patience and humility, and best still is Crossy has an interest in the subject and kept a warning and moderating eye out and Naam has not retired from being the gentleman his wife said he used to be. :-)

There ARE viable alternative energy products and they are making money too, just like horses versus the car industry. The state of South Australia has just switched off their last coal fired power station.Electric cars were the first cars, they later won the first speed trials and are becoming the norm now.

Good on ya George, positivity, persistance and patience. Edison got us the light bulb when others got "bored" with the idea. Incandescent bulbs are almost unobtainable now and L.E.D's are the go now thanks to intelligent questioning of old ways. Thanks to the likes of the George's.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Muhendis]

And sometimes @bankruatsteve commercial products can with a bit diy be more effective........

Added:

Just wondering why would a company produce just products?????

because there are always ignorants who spend money because they believe in the lies the marketing people spread. that applies to a huge range of products, from washing powder that washes whiter than any other detergent to secret chemical compounds which cure any ailment from stinking feet to cancer (he he he, ha ha ha).

This is drifting slightly off topic but many years ago in the UK there were two video tape recording systems. VHS and BetaMax. VHS was technologically inferior to BetaMax but because the marketing people, in their ignorance prefered it, it became the dominant system. The moral to this is that many good ideas fall by the wayside because marketing and sales people generally have no idea about science and technology. Also as Naam said marketing and sales will tell you anything to make you buy their product not because they are stupid but rather more because they are only interested in your money. Also there is the scenario of the salesman who tries to sell pump 'A' over another pump 'B'. It is quite likely that he has hundreds of the pump 'A' on the shelf which is not selling very well so his/her priority is to convince the punter that pump 'A' is better, faster, cheaper and more reliable than pump 'B'.

The punter must read and understand the specs' and have a clear idea what he/she wants.

[Naam]

I haven't had a power bill for 36 years

tell us where you are hiding all that cash Joe. GPS coordinates preferred.

[Naam]

The punter must read and understand the specs

that's in many cases not possible Muhendis, no matter how broad-based your knowledge is.

[Naam]

Thanks to the likes of the George's...

...thousands of fraudsters are laughing every evening when they count the dosh clawed out of the pockets of naïve believers.

[George Harmony]

Thanks to the likes of the George's...

...thousands of fraudsters are laughing every evening when they count the dosh clawed out of the pockets of naïve believers.

Thats why the youtube vid are so interesting to see how someone tries to make a more efficient diy product to generate electricity. The idea is the same. Where water flows you can generate electricity. In the last youtube example that gentleman showed us the two in one idea. He can spray his garden with the water he uses to generate electricity

A nabor borrowed my tiny pump for his concrete fishpond. 24 hours that pump was running. He already bought a new submersible ac 120w pump. Periodically he refreshes the water. With all that he can try to get some power back or not?? Like a grid tied solar system but in this case with hydro generator(s).

And the idea of above commercial product i find it fantastic especially for those who are connected to a central water supply. Open a crane in your house and generate also electricity.

Added a joke:

If one denies that the idea is great that one must be living in a protected area in pattaya where its perhaps also forbidden to use hydro generators hahahahahah ????? especially when they also have swimming pool. What a lot of water flowing around....wow.....?????

Edited May 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

The punter must read and understand the specs

that's in many cases not possible Muhendis, no matter how broad-based your knowledge is.

I disagree with your "not possible" comment on the basis that there is related information available for those not too lazy to look for it. Of course there is always the possibility of a hidden agenda and slanted information but that normally comes from salesmen and can usually be recognised for what it's worth.

What George is doing is a prime example of hunting for related information. He is researching his ideas on the internet then running his ideas and research past us (professionals?) for comment in order to test their validity/viability.

[George Harmony]

Another micro generator. I think these are reliable specs:

low cost Mini Microhydroelectric Turbine Generator non-adjustable permanent magnet generator 24Vdc, approx 40 Watts 12Vdc, approx 28 Watts

Now you can experiment with micro hydroelectric power without spending a lot of money. A residential hose spigot will NOT normally produce the necessary pressure and flow to operate this unit. However, if your home water service is supplied through a 3/4" line you can install a 3/4" tee close to the the service entrance with a 3/4" valve and this usually WILL be sufficient to test this turbine.

Will produce up to approximately 28 Watts 1.9 Amps maximum output at a nominal 12Vdc or approximately 40 Watts 1.6 Amps at 24Vdc. Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output. Includes a permanent magnet dc generator (motor) with long life replaceable brushes. Impeller is magnetically coupled which means there are no seals to wear out and replace.

This mini micro hydroelectric generator can be used for battery charging. Or, with our optional diversion load/regulator it is a source for a stand-alone dc system WITHOUT a battery that can be used to power small electrical loads like LED lights or dc compact fluorescent lamps. Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

[Naam]

and here, dear children, a perfect sample of marketing bullsh*t:

Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output.

Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

[Naam]

I disagree with your "not possible" comment

my comment was "in many cases not possible".

[KonaRain]

Thanks to the likes of the George's...

...thousands of fraudsters are laughing every evening when they count the dosh clawed out of the pockets of naïve believers.

Thats why the youtube vid are so interesting to see how someone tries to make a more efficient diy product to generate electricity. The idea is the same. Where water flows you can generate electricity. In the last youtube example that gentleman showed us the two in one idea. He can spray his garden with the water he uses to generate electricity

A nabor borrowed my tiny pump for his concrete fishpond. 24 hours that pump was running. He already bought a new submersible ac 120w pump. Periodically he refreshes the water. With all that he can try to get some power back or not?? Like a grid tied solar system but in this case with hydro generator(s).

And the idea of above commercial product i find it fantastic especially for those who are connected to a central water supply. Open a crane in your house and generate also electricity.

Added a joke:

If one denies that the idea is great that one must be living in a protected area in pattaya where its perhaps also forbidden to use hydro generators hahahahahah especially when they also have swimming pool. What a lot of water flowing around....wow.....

My friend 《says》 he can pump water uphill, then run it down through a vortex creating power on downhill run..hopefully more than it takes to pump uphill again..

Maybe he can grow some Tilapia besides..

(Pardon my humor, I'm trying to keep up with YouAll)

Edited May 20, 2016 by KonaRain

[George Harmony]

These guys claim that with a sort of syphon they can generate electricity from a pond. So, no head.

They use one of these products:

http://www.langstonsalternativepower.com/

Is this you think possible @naam ??

Perhaps you might consider such a construction from your swimming pool ???

Edited May 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

Thanks to the likes of the George's...

...thousands of fraudsters are laughing every evening when they count the dosh clawed out of the pockets of naïve believers.

Thats why the youtube vid are so interesting to see how someone tries to make a more efficient diy product to generate electricity. The idea is the same. Where water flows you can generate electricity. In the last youtube example that gentleman showed us the two in one idea. He can spray his garden with the water he uses to generate electricity

A nabor borrowed my tiny pump for his concrete fishpond. 24 hours that pump was running. He already bought a new submersible ac 120w pump. Periodically he refreshes the water. With all that he can try to get some power back or not?? Like a grid tied solar system but in this case with hydro generator(s).

And the idea of above commercial product i find it fantastic especially for those who are connected to a central water supply. Open a crane in your house and generate also electricity.

Added a joke:

If one denies that the idea is great that one must be living in a protected area in pattaya where its perhaps also forbidden to use hydro generators hahahahahah especially when they also have swimming pool. What a lot of water flowing around....wow.....

My friend 《says》 he can pump water uphill, then run it down through a vortex creating power on downhill run..hopefully more than it takes to pump uphill again..

Maybe he can grow some Tilapia besides..

(Pardon my humor, I'm trying to keep up with YouAll)

Been done before but a bit bigger...........https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

[Jing Joe]

I haven't had a power bill for 36 years

tell us where you are hiding all that cash Joe. GPS coordinates preferred.

Not telling you Naam. :-)

In fairness as I've posted before, it effectively still costs me about $600 to $800 per year over the 10 to 12 years life of batteries and in 6 years time and looking forward to the next generation; Lithium. But that's typically a lot cheaper and more reliable than most who are connected to the grid here.

Heard they are even being charged to keep their account and reading the meters and whatever they can think up next.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Jing Joe]

and here, dear children, a perfect sample of marketing bullsh*t:

Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output.

Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

Naam, I'm not sure why this is B.S. Do you suggest the PSi versus flow rate doesn't hold water if you'll pardon the pun?

Is there a smaller jet inside than one suspects, for the 12 galls per minute?

To me it seems like a perfect solution not just for a remote cabin (if water is no challenge) and even for emergency lighting for some of the other TVN readers who have been having many blackouts.

From what my in-laws say about water costs in LOS it would not be a viable permanent power source regardless of intended size generators.

At first glance it looked like a nice DC motor and pump. :-)

Edited May 20, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Crossy]

These guys claim that with a sort of syphon they can generate electricity from a pond. So, no head.

They use one of these products:

http://www.langstonsalternativepower.com/

Is this you think possible @naam ??

Perhaps you might consider such a construction from your swimming pool ???

Of course there's head, on the exhaust side of the turbine, take off the vertical pipe and it stops being a syphon.

It's just a differently configured micro\-hydro system, does seem to work quite well.

[George Harmony]

So @crossy,it can work from every pond which the top water level is lower than the ground level.

Not to waste water why not put the generator above the pond on a post. Also the vertical pipe on a post above the pond. Then its really 24hours free energy without wasting water

Edited May 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[Crossy]

So @crossy,it can work from every pond which the top water level is lower than the ground level.

Not to waste water why not put the generator above the pond on a post. Also the vertical pipe on a post above the pond. Then its really 24hours free energy without wasting water

No, he's standing on a dam.

Outlet is significantly lower than the inlet.

Your second suggestion is once again over-unity.

[Naam]

and here, dear children, a perfect sample of marketing bullsh*t:

Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output.

Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

Naam, I'm not sure why this is B.S. Do you suggest the PSi versus flow rate doesn't hold water if you'll pardon the pun?

Is there a smaller jet inside than one suspects, for the 12 galls per minute?

To me it seems like a perfect solution not just for a remote cabin (if water is no challenge) and even for emergency lighting for some of the other TVN readers who have been having many blackouts.

From what my in-laws say about water costs in LOS it would not be a viable permanent power source regardless of intended size generators.

At first glance it looked like a nice DC motor and pump. :-)

how many remote cabins do you know where water pressure of 35, 25 or 10 psi and sufficient flow is available?

[George Harmony]

I thougt so. Thanks for your explanation @crossy.

Back to the cheap chinese micro hydro generator. A guy tested the 5v version and installed it on the inlet of his shower. It seems that there are fine electronics inside. Too much pressure/flow/volt automatic cut off. Too much load also automatic cut off. Disappointing was that the wheel did not spin so smoothly. Perhaps interesting for me to order and to learn from it and also trying to get better performance with a bit diy. Only usd 11.

Sure is that you can get free (led)lighting during a shower

[Muhendis]

and here, dear children, a perfect sample of marketing bullsh*t:

Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output.

Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

Naam, I'm not sure why this is B.S. Do you suggest the PSi versus flow rate doesn't hold water if you'll pardon the pun?

Is there a smaller jet inside than one suspects, for the 12 galls per minute?

To me it seems like a perfect solution not just for a remote cabin (if water is no challenge) and even for emergency lighting for some of the other TVN readers who have been having many blackouts.

From what my in-laws say about water costs in LOS it would not be a viable permanent power source regardless of intended size generators.

At first glance it looked like a nice DC motor and pump. :-)

how many remote cabins do you know where water pressure of 35, 25 or 10 psi and sufficient flow is available?

Yup! Naam is spot on as usual. Readers may like to look at https://myelms.umd.edu/courses/969642/files/27532357?module_item_id=6128404

2.31 feet of water = 1 pound per square inch pressure

So from this to achieve 35 psi would require a head of 2.31 x 35 = 80.85 feet (24.64 Metres). Make sure there is an elevated water source near your proposed remote cabin.

[Jing Joe]

and here, dear children, a perfect sample of marketing bullsh*t:

Water source must be 35 psi head pressure at inlet with 12 gpm available to achieve maximum output.

Perfect for that remote cabin or even a rural off-grid cottage.

Naam, I'm not sure why this is B.S. Do you suggest the PSi versus flow rate doesn't hold water if you'll pardon the pun?

Is there a smaller jet inside than one suspects, for the 12 galls per minute?

To me it seems like a perfect solution not just for a remote cabin (if water is no challenge) and even for emergency lighting for some of the other TVN readers who have been having many blackouts.

From what my in-laws say about water costs in LOS it would not be a viable permanent power source regardless of intended size generators.

At first glance it looked like a nice DC motor and pump. :-)

how many remote cabins do you know where water pressure of 35, 25 or 10 psi and sufficient flow is available?

OK I understand now Naam. A head of 25 metres will give 35 PSI and yes sure that would limit locations. But don't be too pessimistic about this Naam because there are mountainous areas in Oz in the east with springs providing this. And lesser but practical heights too. I've seen the small dams and poly pipe coming down the slopes.

One of the fascinating geological wonders how this happens eh, but living off grid would be worth searching for such a location. It happens. Add to this an underground house into the side of that mountain on the sunny side with solar panels added = George's bliss. :-)

Edited May 20, 2016 by Crossy
Fixed the quote

[Jing Joe]

I thougt so. Thanks for your explanation @crossy.

Back to the cheap chinese micro hydro generator. A guy tested the 5v version and installed it on the inlet of his shower. It seems that there are fine electronics inside. Too much pressure/flow/volt automatic cut off. Too much load also automatic cut off. Disappointing was that the wheel did not spin so smoothly. Perhaps interesting for me to order and to learn from it and also trying to get better performance with a bit diy. Only usd 11.

Sure is that you can get free (led)lighting during a shower

Have you seen the innovative use of a peltier device/s to somehow light LEDs according the resulting water temperature at the shower head?

Probably starting at green or blue then the hotter the temp, the closer the colour progressed to red.

Food for innovative use in other applications?