Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[Jing Joe]

Despite my above post I hate seeing people struggle.

With this information we can answer many of your questions. Of course, if you don't, we can't.

It's a pity there's a guy that so obviously likes to experiment, but seems unwilling to learn - especially when there's some pro's very patiently standing by to help him.

Yup IMHO. I've kindly replied by email to George about this.

I sometimes have to say to my Thai bride she is like a fly in a bottle rushing about without stopping to think and learn just a bit from my expert wisdom.

I like this one; "We are given two ears and two eyes but only one mouth and they should be used in that proportion". Or perhaps just one finger to type with, as applicable here.

I've admired George's incredible zeal to experiment and have also learnt much, including it seems the mutual patience on the pro's standing by to help if I might humbly include myself.

Happy Friday to all.

Just had knee operation and feel great. Amazing!

[Muhendis]

Despite my above post I hate seeing people struggle.

With this information we can answer many of your questions. Of course, if you don't, we can't.

It's a pity there's a guy that so obviously likes to experiment, but seems unwilling to learn - especially when there's some pro's very patiently standing by to help him.

Yup IMHO. I've kindly replied by email to George about this.

I sometimes have to say to my Thai bride she is like a fly in a bottle rushing about without stopping to think and learn just a bit from my expert wisdom.

I like this one; "We are given two ears and two eyes but only one mouth and they should be used in that proportion". Or perhaps just one finger to type with, as applicable here.

I've admired George's incredible zeal to experiment and have also learnt much, including it seems the mutual patience on the pro's standing by to help if I might humbly include myself.

Happy Friday to all.

Just had knee operation and feel great. Amazing!

Ahh yes Friday. POETS day.

[George Harmony]

Amazing. A guy made a website of his simple home made batteries. As long those batteries are wet they work.

I'll Show You - How deliver electric power in alternative ways... Free Geen Energy without poison or toxins

I named this MEDELIS BATTERY

This battery generates electric power out of Tap Water (drinking water, river,lake,rain or any similar liquid)...

its small, powerful and super basic

MEDELIS BATTERY will generates electricity until the water dries up...for many hours (you can always refill water - make it work again)

if you do not let water to dried (put it all in a plastic bag) battery will generates electric power for very long, long....long time

with 4 MEDELIS cells - led glow

with 24 MEDELIS cells - charge your phone

To make MEDELIS BATTERY you will need some stuff

Copper Wire or Copper Plate, Magnesium Ribbon & Thread...(common thread - normal)

I dont know if my method of producing electricity is economical and cost effective :-) What I know is that it is worth to try !?

Sure i will try this out and shall measure as per request(s).

http://medelis.se/index.html

Edited June 17, 2016 by George Harmony

[Crossy]

George. Is the ice-cube battery still working? some readings from it would be really useful (it doesn't use expensive materials like magnesium).

[George Harmony]

George. Is the ice-cube battery still working? some readings from it would be really useful (it doesn't use expensive materials like magnesium).

Yes it did till this afternoon. I dismantled it and clean it and tomorrow i try to fill it with dirth. Keep you updated.

[George Harmony]

And this guy did the same ONLY with water..... ....

Will try this timorrow also....

See u tomorrow online on Thaivisa

Edited June 17, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

My cheap digital multimeter finally arrived by courier. It seems that the high voltage sockets does not work??? So max 10Amp socket.

Also my icetray is still a bit dirty. Fill it only with water, sand some old copper cables connect it to aluminium foil and dip it in. I measure voltages of 3.4 to 3.6v.

Connect a led and it burn. Measure again, voltage drops to 2.2v.

Do you see the corroded screws?? ??

Have to go now. Tonight i will add saltwater and try to measure the current.

See u tonight.

Ps: Led on pict not so clear cause im on the terrace outside.

Measure voltage with led = 2.2v

Number icecubes = 8

Edited June 18, 2016 by George Harmony

[Crossy]

Have you read the instructions G?

[George Harmony]

This guy on youtube have a similar one. I did exactly what he did. The only thing hat shows is a minus sign. I think it was already "kaput" when i recieved it.

Disadvantage of online buying is that you have to cover the courier cost of return sending yourself. The price is a fraction higher than the courier cost ??

But the max 10amp socket above is working.

Manual? Only one 1 double sided page.

[Crossy]

A "-" display is often indicates "over-range" what are you trying to measure and does it read "0" when not connected to anything?

If it came with a battery, try a new one.

[George Harmony]

Another experiment using rest of the roof aluminium.

One is bigger and wider than the other. Carbon with tissue and saltwater.

The wider gives more voltage. Connected together and a blinking led lightup.

My led with joule thief felt on the ground and my cat(s) broke it ???

Shall make tomorrow a new one.

Tried to mesure DCA on 20m and 200m went to tilt. Can not measure higher. Replaced the battery, no result. Still the same. Can not even measure voltage.

Edited June 18, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

Its shows this.

When i put the plugs to max20amp it works.

I think its "kaput" ????

[Crossy]

That's set to DC volts, if you give it a known good battery (one from the shop) to measure what does it read?

Your meter does not have a 20A range.

Have you read (and understood) the two page instructions?

For measuring volts and amps (up to 200mA) you have the plugs in the right place (your DIY batteries will never get near 200mA). With it set as in the photo try measuring a 9V battery (or your 12V bike battery).

PLEASE read / watch one of the many online tutorials on how to use a multimeter, before you try to measure mains Amps and kill yourself.

Have you checked / replaced the meter battery (using your trusty analogue meter)?

EDIT For your measurements you will NEVER EVER, EVER need to put a plug in the 10ADC hole, don't do it.

[George Harmony]

@crossy,

Perhaps its this:

One of the most common mistakes with a new multimeter is to measure current on a bread board by probing from VCC to GND (bad!). This will immediately short power to ground through the multimeter causing the bread board power supply to brown out. As the current rushes through the multimeter, the internal fuse will heat up and then burn out as 200mA flows through it. It will happen in a split second and without any real audible or physical indication that something is wrong.

Wow, that was neat. Now what? Well first, remember that measuring current is done in series (interrupt the VCC line to the breadboard or microcontroller to measure current). If you try to measure the current with a blown fuse, youll probably notice that the meter reads 0.00 and that the system doesnt turn on like it should when you attach the multimeter. This is because the internal fuse is broken and acts as a broken wire or open. Dont worry, this happens all the time, and it costs about $1 to fix.

From very informative site: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/how-to-use-a-multimeter#fuse

Want to inform you that the led connected to the icetray is still burning. Not so bright but still active, only with water. Will experiment with more cubes.

You all might wonder why all these known expirements. Perhaps i can replicate the pinoy saltlamp + hp charger but only using water (not saltwater) Handy for me and for village people also perhaps i can charge a supercap bank with it (24hours)

Edited June 18, 2016 by George Harmony

[Crossy]

George. Do you ever actually read my posts?

You think your new meter is dead. I have given you a very simple test to verify if it's working or not. You have not reported back having done the test.

How the heck am I (or anyone else) supposed to assist you in your quest for low cost energy if you can't follow the simplest of instructions?

I also suggest that you read up on basic electricity and understand Volts, Amps and Ohms. Ohm's Law is a good place to start.

[Jing Joe]

PLEASE read / watch one of the many online tutorials on how to use a multimeter, before you try to measure mains Amps and kill yourself.

EDIT For your measurements you will NEVER EVER, EVER need to put a plug in the 10ADC hole, don't do it.

Crossy, your own on-line educationals are truly professional. Well done.

The reference above to "mains Amps" might have been a slip up that could confuse our George? because his meter only measures DC Amps.

Your safety caution certainly applies to measuring mains volts.

My first mistake at age 14 with a borrowed M/M was to forget it was on ohms scale and I attempted to measure mains volts.

So I had to replace the meter I couldn't afford in the first place, then save for one for myself.

"The price of two for one" ?

Aside, I've since blown the typical small fuse using 200? milliamp scales and easy enough to replace.

Sometimes (rarely) I've found it better to use the 10A scale when measuring the current into some lower power devices even though the 200ma scale might be just enough. The introduced small voltage drop across the 200ma shunt and the fuse can subtract just enough voltage in some circuits to upset them.

Crossy's good advice>> Georges great experiments will surely only need the suggested 200ma range.

George; you didn't comment if the crushed coal BBQ fuel (the size of an egg) might make good carbon anodes??

They measure about 100 ohms max. side to side with sharp point contacts of M/M.

How would you suggest making "anode type" contact? Drill a hole right through and tie a knot with copper wire? Make a stack of them in a PVC tube (with many drilled holes) and compress them tight with a spring?

Edited June 19, 2016 by Jing Joe

[Jing Joe]

George. I made a 3 cell coal and aluminium salt water battery and got 1.8 volts but virtually no short circuit current. 60 micro-amps.

Then the coal blocks started to disintegrate into the bottom of the paper cups and short to the aluminium foil.

back to the drawing board. (Yours.)

[George Harmony]

Just quick reply.

Re Mm, followed all instructions. Opened and look at the circuitboard on the 2nd socket. Seems to be "kaput" but i think not so difficult to repair.

@jingjoe, ill reply tomorrow. There is a guy who did experiments with it. Lost the link but did save a pict.

[George Harmony]

@jingjoe,

Can you not put paper towel in between??

The led connected to my icecubes is amazingly still burning with only water as electrolyte.

Here is a resume of someone else (see pict). Suppose i make 24 with pvc pipes connected in series and paralel to achieve about 6volt for a bright led and/or fan. Will it work? Lets find out soon.

Added:

Its a challenge to make one which works only on water. There are also other types of diy battery which works on AIR only. Youtube for "air battery laseraber" ......

Saltwater and others like hydroxides "eat" the materials used faster. Perhaps with water less current but then if you are not lazy make more cells

Edited June 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[George Harmony]

Posted a link before about medelis battery with magnesium ribbon. Replicated. This type of battery is really amazing, only with water. As long you drip it with water the led will contstantly burn. Will give full details with measurements as soon ive connected a dozen of that really tiny batteries.

[Jing Joe]

George These are the carbon rods I mentioned before for carbon arc like the old movie projectors.About $1 each. Copper coated.

How could these be used?

[George Harmony]

I think all kinds of carbon you can use. Wrap it in with paper towel together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated. Make it wett with saltwater. Then wrap again with aluminium foil. You have a battery. Plus/minus connect to the wire and aluminium foil.

Ps: Do you see the icecubes (pict posted b4). Still burning with NO refreshment of water. So,combination of copper and aluminium and water is also really amazing.

Edited June 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

George These are the carbon rods I mentioned before for carbon arc like the old movie projectors.About $1 each. Copper coated.

How could these be used?

I think all kinds of carbon you can use. Wrap it in with paper towel together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated. Make it wett with saltwater. Then wrap again with aluminium foil. You have a battery. Plus/minus connect to the wire and aluminium foil.

Ps: Do you see the icecubes (pict posted b4). Still burning with NO refreshment of water. So,combination of copper and aluminium and water is also really amazing.

I think it would be wise to remove the copper from the carbon rods otherwise the positive and negative electrodes will be the same material.

George the main reason I want to see a few voltage and current numbers is for a comparison of the various technologies you are trying. Whilst it is all very well to say that an LED is glowing for a period of time with a particular "battery" it is entirely subjective and would be a challenge for others to repeat. Voltage and current are precise measurements which can be used as a reference for making improvements. A glowing LED, on the other hand is.....a glowing LED. To make measurements using your glowing LED you should really be measuring Lux against time. I think you need to get to grips with the basics of electrical engineering as I think Crossy mentioned otherwise all you have is an LED that glows under certain mysterious (to you) circumstances. It might also be a very good idea if you were to google (or whatever) ions and electrons because at the moment, with the exception of your glowing LED, you are very much in the dark about how your excellent experiments do what they do.

[George Harmony]

My experiments with 1 led only is for me a confirmation that with such diy batteries a certain voltage can be reached (continiously). With one battery i made led can not glow.

The next step is to connect more in series and paralell and lets see if i can run a bright led and/or a usb fan (continiously).

If i can reach total +/- 6 volts and at least current of 50 mA in theory you can run a bright led and a low voltage fan together. And, if in theory refreshing electrolyte will result the same voltage and current i will be very happy if in real its the case.

Also the most important question is with such batteries: Which materials are to be used for anode and cathode? Preferably easy to get and ofcourse cheap and with water and/or air only thus not saltwater or other added chemicals.

Will keep you updated.

Ps:

About the carbon rods also copper plated, perhaps the copper plated part can replace the wire.

Is the carbon copper plated? Or is there a carbon part and a copper plated part?? What kind of material is under the copper plate??

Edited June 20, 2016 by George Harmony

[splitlid]

Best you get a load more ice trays.

[George Harmony]

Larger/longer surface possibly will result in more voltage and/or current. Why not try to make cells with pvc pipes. Easier later to design one which automaticly can refresh the electrolyte (=tapwater)

[Jing Joe]

George These are the carbon rods I mentioned before for carbon arc like the old movie projectors.About $1 each. Copper coated.

How could these be used?

I think all kinds of carbon you can use. Wrap it in with paper towel together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated. Make it wet with salt-water. Then wrap again with aluminium foil. You have a battery. Plus/minus connect to the wire and aluminium foil.

Ps: Do you see the icecubes (pict posted b4). Still burning with NO refreshment of water. So,combination of copper and aluminium and water is also really amazing.

I think it would be wise to remove the copper from the carbon rods otherwise the positive and negative electrodes will be the same material.

Thanks George and M.

Yes M, remove most of the copper. I didn't take time to mention my awareness about this. It would cause the poor battery to be chemically quite "confused" A bit like gender identity.

"All kinds of carbon" ?? Before the coal blocks starting dissolving there was virtually no current available. that's why I asked about the carbon rods that are just like the anodes of the dry cells.

I also realized the copper tube-like cladding would only expose the very ends of the rod to the electrolyte.

Leave just enough cladding at the top to make soldered contact and should be out of the water.

George, I'm not quite sure your meaning "together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated".

Surely you mean solder/connect to the rod with copper wire as above??

I would try wrapping with cotton wool rather than paper towel.???

That YouTube guy who tediously wrapped the anode with many many many turns of cotton sewing thread was surely embarrassing.

Guys; like I said before, with 1kw wind gen, plus soon another 400W model plus 2.5KW of solar, George's interesting project is an contagious ingenious sideline to keep my "retirement cobwebs" away. As if I don't have enough projects on the go anyway.

P.S. Probably the most practical use for me would be as a couple of novel "stand alone" LED night lights in our home.

The interest in the technical performance figures wouldn't matter much in this case, just so long as it worked.

BUT;- I have many old lead acid battery cases that could be part of a bigger project along these lines, THEN performance will be a focus.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Jing Joe

[George Harmony]

George, I'm not quite sure your meaning "together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated".

Surely you mean solder/connect to the rod with copper wire as above??

As long as the wire make contact with the carbon.

That YouTube guy who tediously wrapped the anode with many many many turns of cotton sewing thread was surely embarrassing.

If you mean the "medelis battery" with magnesium ribbon i replicated yesterday and it works perfect. Just made 2 new ones. Amazing. Just use a little bit magnesium ribbon and you have a 1-1.2 volt tiny battery. Will make as much as possible and connect in serie and paralell.

For comparison of the size i made a pict with a pack of cigarette. 4 of them lightup a led and lets see how many i need to charge my hp and/or burn a 3 watt usb lamp with or without joule thief. Magnesium ribbon i can buy here for abt 2.6 usd per meter.

Big question is, how long does it (=mag ribbon) last if one use such battery daily. The electrolyte is only tapwater.

Edited June 21, 2016 by George Harmony

[Jing Joe]

George, I'm not quite sure your meaning "together with a copper electrical wire partly insulated".

Surely you mean solder/connect to the rod with copper wire as above??

As long as the wire make contact with the carbon.

If you mean the "medelis battery" with magnesium ribbon i replicated yesterday and it works perfect. Just made 2 new ones. Amazing. Just use a little bit magnesium ribbon and you have a 1-1.2 volt tiny battery. Will make as much as possible and connect in series and parallel.

For comparison of the size i made a pict with a pack of cigarette. 4 of them light up a led and lets see how many i need to charge my hp and/or burn a 3 watt usb lamp with or without joule thief. Magnesium ribbon i can buy here for abt 2.6 usd per meter.

Big question is, how long does it (=mag ribbon) last if one use such battery daily. The electrolyte is only tap water.

Ok I understand just connect to carbon. So basic.

Yes it was the Medelis battery with 2000 turns of cotton thread. Why not simply wrap in cotton rag?

Q--- What sort of shops do you have there that sell Magnesium ribbon?

I remember burning it in the chem lab at high school.

Some high powered fireworks had white powdered magnesium in the gunpowder.

Reckon you would have looked for the cheapest source of it.

Seems like you can buy powdered/granular magnesium.

Q--- The so-called mag wheels for cars will surely be an aluminium /magnesium compound/alloy?

Hey guys-- whats a good hack for magnesium?

Edited June 21, 2016 by Jing Joe

[George Harmony]

I buy for hard to find things always online. If i have to search in this big city i lost more with travelling cost. Better pay courier and wait at home

Why not cotton. Perhaps for smoothen the air/oxygen.

Why i find it amazing. Judge for your self (see pict). This is without joule thief a 1 watt led. As long as i drip water to the cells it burns. :)