'NO SMOKING, NO INDIA': Casual racism in Thailand

[Gsxrnz]

The box says "no smoking, no Indians" because there's not enough room to write "no smoking, only two maximum tenants allowed, no cooking horrendously smelling foods that no amount of cleaning will remove the odours, no ladyboy guest/s, no gang banging coconut bar hookers, no shisha pipes, no sitting by the pool and perving at the girls for hours on end."

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

Which suggests to me that he was not being initially barred entry simply and totally based on the colour of his skin, but for the perceived unwelcome behaviour that others that share his skin colour and ethnic origins have previously demonstrated at the bar. This is fact - I checked with the doorman who I know.

Is that racism? Or is it merely a form of selected admission using a certain visible criteria that is really no different than a dress code?

My bar doesn't let anybody in who is bare chested - and a bloody good thing too. I don't care if they come from Australia, India, Peru, or Norway. If they have the poor manners not to wear at least a wife-beater, I don't want to have to look at the uncouth drips.

So if a bare chested Indian rocks up and he's barred entry, why is that conceivably labelled as racism, but if a Norwegian is barred, that's not considered racism?

Edited February 25, 2016 by Gsxrnz

[Mot Dang]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

Possibly a case of once burnt, twice shy.

[khunpa]

The box says "no smoking, no Indians" because there's not enough room to write "no smoking, only two maximum tenants allowed, no cooking horrendously smelling foods that no amount of cleaning will remove the odours, no ladyboy guest/s, no gang banging coconut bar hookers, no shisha pipes, no sitting by the pool and perving at the girls for hours on end."

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

Which suggests to me that he was not being initially barred entry simply and totally based on the colour of his skin, but for the perceived unwelcome behaviour that others that share his skin colour and ethnic origins have previously demonstrated at the bar. This is fact - I checked with the doorman who I know.

Is that racism? Or is it merely a form of selected admission using a certain visible criteria that is really no different than a dress code?

My bar doesn't let anybody in who is bare chested - and a bloody good thing too. I don't care if they come from Australia, India, Peru, or Norway. If they have the poor manners not to wear at least a wife-beater, I don't want to have to look at the uncouth drips.

So if a bare chested Indian rocks up and he's barred entry, why is that conceivably labelled as racism, but if a Norwegian is barred, that's not considered racism?

Yes unfortunately, you need to be "dark skinned" to be able to throw the racism word at others. Kind of sucks that us "white people" do not have that option :-(

Edited February 25, 2016 by khunpa

[BSJ]

Some Indian's are so smelly it's disgusting. Maybe the condo owner has had a similar experience as I and came to the conclusion all Indian's are smelly. Wrong assumption, but hey....it's his condo!

[huangnon]

Obviously a bad experience from a previous tenant. Nothing to get our knickers in a twist about.

[khun custard]

This could only relate to the cooking smells and occupancy, after all, Thais base their life values on the teachings of an Indian guy named Siddhartha Gautama.

I personally do not have any objections to Indians but to live next door to potpourri of Bombay Duck and of Garam Masala fumes - no thanks. I'll rent elsewhere.

[nikster]

There might be racism here if you look hard enough. But most Thais are open to anyone, and there's even specialty businesses that pop up to serve customers other businesses do not want to serve - for example but there were always special Israeli restaurants and hostels in tourist places. I've always admired the flexibility and accomodating-ness of Thai businesses in these circumstances. A lot of places didn't want to take Israeli groups because they were loud, obnoxious, rude, and haggling for every small thing. And a friend of mine - Thai - opened a restaurant with a Hebrew menu, cheap prices, and good food, and she had no issues with the loudness, she just wouldn't take any shit from them, in other words she could handle them fine, and they in turn felt very much at home and as a result behaved a lot better in her restaurant, too.

Similar case with this apartment, the owner either had bad experiences with Indian customers, or heard about bad experiences with them, and decided they didn't want to rent to them.

I totally understand from my experience. We once rented our flat in Europe to an Indian family for two months while we were on vacation. They left the place trashed: All kitchen counters had burn marks from pots. All walls were dark from dirt / children's hands. Apparently their parents never washed their hands?! A bunch of cooking gear was rendered useless. Numerous things were broken. Bad smells. They didn't compensate us for any of it either, they just took off. I'd never rent to Indians again.

Not because they're bad people, or I hate them, or they have brown skin - I don't hate anyone, and I like brown skin. But I don't want my apartment trashed, and I'd just much rather rent it to other people who will not cause these problems. I mean we rented that apartment on several occasions before and never had any issues. It's not personal, only practical.

[Thian]

The box says "no smoking, no Indians" because there's not enough room to write "no smoking, only two maximum tenants allowed, no cooking horrendously smelling foods that no amount of cleaning will remove the odours, no ladyboy guest/s, no gang banging coconut bar hookers, no shisha pipes, no sitting by the pool and perving at the girls for hours on end."

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

Which suggests to me that he was not being initially barred entry simply and totally based on the colour of his skin, but for the perceived unwelcome behaviour that others that share his skin colour and ethnic origins have previously demonstrated at the bar. This is fact - I checked with the doorman who I know.

Is that racism? Or is it merely a form of selected admission using a certain visible criteria that is really no different than a dress code?

My bar doesn't let anybody in who is bare chested - and a bloody good thing too. I don't care if they come from Australia, India, Peru, or Norway. If they have the poor manners not to wear at least a wife-beater, I don't want to have to look at the uncouth drips.

So if a bare chested Indian rocks up and he's barred entry, why is that conceivably labelled as racism, but if a Norwegian is barred, that's not considered racism?

Yes unfortunately, you need to be "dark skinned" to be able to throw the racism word at others. Kind of sucks that us "white people" do not have that option :-(

The whole term "racism" is so old fashioned it should be a banned word.

It came from the buses in South Africa where blacks were not allowed to sit among whites, right?

In W-Europe i wouldn't take a bus because of the groups of north africans sitting in it and misbehaving badly, even harassing (white) other travellers or robbing them. Girls in short skirts better not use public transport in my homecountry because of all the immigrants.

That's called racism according to the books but i would think it's time to get separate buses/trains again.....not because of skincolor but because of bad behaviour.

[worgeordie]

Landladies in the UK ,use to put signs in the window, ROOM FOR RENT,

NO Irish,Blacks or Dogs,but that was a long long time ago,just shows how

far Thailand is behind the times.

regards Worgeordie

[gandalf12]

We are all racist to some extent and no amount of discussing it will ever alter that. Thailand exhibits racism on a daily basis as does every other country. Accept it exists and get on with your life.

[TheCruncher]

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

I think I know the guy you're talking about. In fact he is a freaking Indian, born in India to Indian parents, but he holds a Canadian passport.

[TheCruncher]

The whole term "racism" is so old fashioned it should be a banned word.

It came from the buses in South Africa where blacks were not allowed to sit among whites, right?

There is that South African bus driver who gets so upset about that rule that at one point he slams on the brakes and orders everyone out of the bus.

Once outside he explains that for him there is no difference between black and white people, for me you're all blue he says, after which he orders them back in the bus.

After a few minutes driving he looks in the rear view mirror, which make he slam on the brakes again. He turns around and says, ok your all blue, but light blue will sit with light blue and dark blue with dark blue.

[LannaGuy]

To be fair I have nothing against Indians and have lived and worked in India but that does not mean I want my rooms, with their high renovation standard being used by Indians, smokers or Thais or, come to think of it, Malaysians.

I would like to think I'm not racist but practical and experienced and as my units are western renovated I would prefer tenants who appreciated that.

Funnily enough though my worst tenant from HELL was Japanese, he was more like a pig than a human with trash everywhere, but that is highly unusual as most japanese are fastidiously clean.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LannaGuy

[useronthenet]

Racism is clearly alive in any country, just in Thailand they are more open about it.

[Gsxrnz]

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

I think I know the guy you're talking about. In fact he is a freaking Indian, born in India to Indian parents, but he holds a Canadian passport.

The bloke I saw spoke standard Canuck with no accent and his head didn't move. Same bloke? Maybe six months ago at Sweethart's on WS.

[TheCruncher]

On a side note, I once overheard an Indian looking gentleman being barred from entering a gogo bar. I heard him saying "yeah man, well I may look like a freaking Indian but I'm actually from Canada". Immediately allowed into the bar.

I think I know the guy you're talking about. In fact he is a freaking Indian, born in India to Indian parents, but he holds a Canadian passport.

The bloke I saw spoke standard Canuck with no accent and his head didn't move. Same bloke? Maybe six months ago at Sweethart's on WS.

I guess so. He lives here and is a frequent gogo visitor, and indeed he speaks Canadian without accent, as he moved to Canada in his late teens.

[Thian]

Racism is clearly alive in any country, just in Thailand they are more open about it.

In India it's far more open but they call it their "caste system".

A high caste person can't even walk in the shade produced by a lower classed person, then the high one has to go clean himself in a temple in the mountains for some days.

They also won't allow any lowclass people sit on the pavement infront of a hotel/restaurant...

Those high caste Indians have terrible behaviour as well, they even caused my plane to not take off because they wouldn't sit still while we were departing, kept on going to the toilet all the time with their arms full (like 3-5!) of golden watches. Because of that we ALL had to sit in the plane for 2 hours while the engines (and aircon) was turned off Boy did we sweat much.... I'll never go back to India.

[Nicki D]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

At first glance, it seemed outrageous and racist but then the thought of how hard it was to get rid of cigarette smoke and spicy curry odor.........

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

What about all of the Japanese only condos in Bkk? There are Japanese only clubs as well.

I hate when people try to paste a racist label on just one group such as they are doing to the Thais in this report.

Yes, the Thais are racist. But they are not near as racist as some people, such as the Japanese. I don't see too many Thai only venues around the country.

The fact is, it is human nature to fear what is different (for good or for bad), unfortunately this leads to racism in EVERY culture on Earth.

Racism and hatred is not just a Thai or white issue. The Blacks hate the whites and the Koreans in the US for example but it is just not PC to say it.

It is just much easier to say the white man is prejudice or racist against the blacks. There are probably far more predominantly black areas in the US where it would be dangerous for a white man to walk, then there are predominantly white areas where it would be dangerous for a black man to walk. But if a white man is attacked in a predominantly black area and is killed it is not called a hate crime, just another crime. The reverse would not be the same.

Until racism, and the hatred fuelled by it is recognized as a global, human issue and not just an emotion or culture felt or practices by only specific groups against another innocent group, then the real issue will never be addressed.

EVERY race of people on the planet are racist or prejudice against others.

Edited February 25, 2016 by ALLSEEINGEYE

[spidermike007]

I can understand why some Thai's may get put off by the fact that some Indian people do not like to use deodorant. But, that is about it. The vast majority of Indians possess intelligence and creativity and business acumen that most Thais can only dream about having. They are so superior on so many levels, it is almost unfathomable. Indians have been winning Nobel Peace prizes for almost as long as that institution has been in existence, perhaps starting with the brilliant poet Rabindranath Tagore, back in 1913. Then C.V. Raman in 1930 for his cutting edge Physics discoveries. The Amartya Sen in 1998 for his study of economics, and then Kailash Satharthi for his promotion of peace initiatives and the rights of children to have an education. They you have a world class film industry, that creates more films each year than Hollywood. They have a world class tradition of literature, poetry, and culture. Indians have accomplished so much, in such a relatively short period of time, in the fields of Math, Science, Medicine, Technology, etc. The Indian nation has contributed so many brilliant scientists, and doctors to the world at large. How many of those brilliant minds who are improving the world come from Thailand? How many? India was one of the richest countries in the world until the Dutch, and then the British started plundering the country for four centuries, reducing it to one of the poorest countries in the world. That was not of their own making. Their educational system was one of the best in the world, before the British systematically dismantled it over the course of a century, in an effort to dumb down the population. The fact that they have not only been able to recover, but to become one of the world's largest economies, and intellectually productive nations, says alot. There is no yardstick by which the Thai people can even begin to compare themselves to the Indian people, who are vastly superior on so many levels. The same could be said about the Chinese people, especially when it comes to what they have accomplished in terms of productivity and education. Both the Chinese and the Indian educational standards are so much higher, and both nations realize the value of education and put alot of resources into improving it, unlike the Thais, who have failed dismally, when it comes to education their people. Also, both nations overseas, her tutors to make sure their children are outstanding, when it comes to being a student. How many Thais take education that seriously? The Indian nation and it's people have accomplished so much more, and been able to contribute to the world on a level the Thai people could not even consider, nor dream about. This tremendous lack of accomplishment on the world stage, should make any Thai person quite full of humility. But, due to blind nationalism, they can be quite the opposite. Arrogance is not always a bad thing, when it is backed up with substance. But, arrogance when it is not based on anything except political dribble, hyperbole, and false nationalism, is meaningless and an impediment to personal growth. Any Thai landlord should consider themselves honored to have an Indian tenant. Maybe, they could even learn something from them.

The level of ignorance that would lead to a statement like this, about not renting to Indians just boggles the mind. The small mindedness that some Thai people have is staggering. Talk about not knowing your place in the grand scheme of things. In many countries behavior like this would be rewarded with sanctions. Here, it is normal. Even the government commits these kinds of racist, nationalistic acts regularly. Shame on them for being so small minded.

The Thais have alot of lovely qualities. But, their racism and bigotry, and closed mindedness when it comes to the outside world is positively a detriment to Thai society, on so many levels. It really holds them back, as a nation. Surely, there must be a percentage of the population that does not buy into the nonsense. But, far too many do. It is unjustifiable on every level.

Edited February 25, 2016 by spidermike007

[IAMHERE]

Like Indian's are not racist, yep none of them. There are valid reasons for Thai's not to like Indians. Their country their rules. As bad as this Thai racism is there seems to be no lack of Indians who visit or live here.

[DrTuner]

So somebody doesn't like Indians. Tough titties.

[Barnet]

I used to live in a small Thai owned resort that welcomed people of all nationalities and religion except...... THAI.

Can't say I've ever had problems with Indian neighbours but I'm not brought up being brainwashed that all Indians smell and cheat me of money.

Given the choice between the scent of Indian cooking (if that's the worst one can expect) or howling, out of control dogs, pumped up shatty pick ups and honda waves coming and going and 24 hour loud TV from the natives, I know what I'd prefer.

[Thian]

I can understand why some Thai's may get put off by the fact that some Indian people do not like to use deodorant. But, that is about it. The vast majority of Indians possess intelligence and creativity and business acumen that most Thais can only dream about having. They are so superior on so many levels, it is almost unfathomable. Indians have been winning Nobel Peace prizes for almost as long as that institution has been in existence, perhaps starting with the brilliant poet Rabindranath Tagore, back in 1913. Then C.V. Raman in 1930 for his cutting edge Physics discoveries. The Amartya Sen in 1998 for his study of economics, and then Kailash Satharthi for his promotion of peace initiatives and the rights of children to have an education. They you have a world class film industry, that creates more films each year than Hollywood. They have a world class tradition of literature, poetry, and culture. Indians have accomplished so much, in such a relatively short period of time, in the fields of Math, Science, Medicine, Technology, etc. The Indian nation has contributed so many brilliant scientists, and doctors to the world at large. How many of those brilliant minds who are improving the world come from Thailand? How many? India was one of the richest countries in the world until the Dutch, and then the British started plundering the country for four centuries, reducing it to one of the poorest countries in the world. That was not of their own making. Their educational system was one of the best in the world, before the British systematically dismantled it over the course of a century, in an effort to dumb down the population. The fact that they have not only been able to recover, but to become one of the world's largest economies, and intellectually productive nations, says alot. There is no yardstick by which the Thai people can even begin to compare themselves to the Indian people, who are vastly superior on so many levels. They have accomplished so much more, been able to contribute to the world on a level the Thai people could not even consider. Any Thai landlord should consider themselves honored to have an Indian tenant.

The level of ignorance that would lead to a statement like this, about not renting to Indians just boggles the mind. The small mindedness that some Thai people have is staggering. Talk about not knowing your place in the grand scheme of things. In many countries behavior like this would be rewarded with sanctions. Here, it is normal. Even the government commits these kinds of recast, nationalist acts regularly. Shame on them for being so small minded.

It's not small minded from this landlord. He is smart to have these rules so he can ask a higher price and will get new tennants faster.

Also it's smart from the Japanese places to not let westerners in. They won't eat (all) the food served, complain about the high prices, don't know the japanese manners and don't speak the language.

Personally i won't go to a hotel where many Russians are staying. Not because i have problems with them but i think they are rude and noisy. Same goes for groups of Chinese tourists or Aussie backpackers.

[KNJ]

Its obviously a misprint, more likely :

'No Smoking Indians' - don't want the wife to get any ideas

'No Indians, nor pizza, nor le roast Beufs'

'No Smoking Indians, wok fried or grilled only'

'Indians no Smoking - they are too dry to set alight'

'No Indians, Harleys or BSA - they smoke too much'

[spidermike007]

I can understand why some Thai's may get put off by the fact that some Indian people do not like to use deodorant. But, that is about it. The vast majority of Indians possess intelligence and creativity and business acumen that most Thais can only dream about having. They are so superior on so many levels, it is almost unfathomable. Indians have been winning Nobel Peace prizes for almost as long as that institution has been in existence, perhaps starting with the brilliant poet Rabindranath Tagore, back in 1913. Then C.V. Raman in 1930 for his cutting edge Physics discoveries. The Amartya Sen in 1998 for his study of economics, and then Kailash Satharthi for his promotion of peace initiatives and the rights of children to have an education. They you have a world class film industry, that creates more films each year than Hollywood. They have a world class tradition of literature, poetry, and culture. Indians have accomplished so much, in such a relatively short period of time, in the fields of Math, Science, Medicine, Technology, etc. The Indian nation has contributed so many brilliant scientists, and doctors to the world at large. How many of those brilliant minds who are improving the world come from Thailand? How many? India was one of the richest countries in the world until the Dutch, and then the British started plundering the country for four centuries, reducing it to one of the poorest countries in the world. That was not of their own making. Their educational system was one of the best in the world, before the British systematically dismantled it over the course of a century, in an effort to dumb down the population. The fact that they have not only been able to recover, but to become one of the world's largest economies, and intellectually productive nations, says alot. There is no yardstick by which the Thai people can even begin to compare themselves to the Indian people, who are vastly superior on so many levels. They have accomplished so much more, been able to contribute to the world on a level the Thai people could not even consider. Any Thai landlord should consider themselves honored to have an Indian tenant.

The level of ignorance that would lead to a statement like this, about not renting to Indians just boggles the mind. The small mindedness that some Thai people have is staggering. Talk about not knowing your place in the grand scheme of things. In many countries behavior like this would be rewarded with sanctions. Here, it is normal. Even the government commits these kinds of recast, nationalist acts regularly. Shame on them for being so small minded.

It's not small minded from this landlord. He is smart to have these rules so he can ask a higher price and will get new tennants faster.

Also it's smart from the Japanese places to not let westerners in. They won't eat (all) the food served, complain about the high prices, don't know the japanese manners and don't speak the language.

Personally i won't go to a hotel where many Russians are staying. Not because i have problems with them but i think they are rude and noisy. Same goes for groups of Chinese tourists or Aussie backpackers.

Well, from a strictly business point of view, it may be smart. But it is ugly. Very, very ugly. Very undignified. Very shallow. Very callow, racist, nationalistic, ignorant, and completely lacking in elegance or grace.

[RawboneFunksta]

I have been a tenant and a landlord both.

Most often the tenant has little or no power but sometimes tenants can create problems.

I once had an African guy and his family renting a flat from me. He and his wife lived in the bedroom and also cooked on a small electric fire I had given them.

They turned it on its back and used the hot element to cook meat, ruining the fire and turning the entire wall black with the smoke.

Would I rent to an African guy again. Sure but I would ensure that they understood they should not use the fire in such a way. The fella just did not know better even though he was an officer pilot trainee.

If I had an Indian tenant who smelt bad or cooked very smelly food (I personally love the smell) I would simply ask him to clean more thoroughly etc.

What I would not do is judge an entire race by one person. That is precisely what racism is.

One landlord in the UK I was once unfortunate enough to rent from stole mail and did no repairs that were his duty to take care of.

From then on I simply took measures to avoid the problem ocurring again.

I did not stop renting properties and consider all landlords to be lying, cheating rat bastards.

Thais are routinely racist towards anyone with dark skin. They have been conditioned to believe that dark skin denotes rural occupations, ignorance and poor hygiene.

It's political propaganda and helps to control the 'con Isan'.

So, it is racism and ignorance and arrogance and all these negative qualities that a particular race are said to possess are created in order to use as a weapon against them and justify some people's poor tratment of a specific group of 'other' people.

Think on and don't do it as to do so is to play into the hands of those who rule us all.

Do Indian people smell? Some do, yes. Some white folks smell as well. We have probably all been victims of the 'under-arm' weapon of nasal destruction at one time or another or the laser breathed individual who makes speaking to them almost impossible.

We don't judge all caucasians by those individuals so doing it to another race is racist.

In my opinion, anyway.

Edited February 25, 2016 by RawboneFunksta

[Bluespunk]

I wouldn't call this racism. I have no problems with indians at all but for a neighbour i wouldn't choose them.

Once in the bts-skytrain a group of 10-15 men came in. Immediatly there was a bad smell everywhere around us, really very bad. People were all searching for what caused it and covering their noses...I almost had to puke from the smell as well.....It happened to be the Indians who produced that smell...it was really awfull.

Now you might call me (and all the Thai in the bts) a racists but i'm married with a Thai wife and live among only Thai.

This is probably the reason why they won't rent to them....i don't call that racism. Charging 10-foulded prices because of skincolor is racism in my opinion and India also does that at the Taj Mahall..

The owner of the apartment is a racist if they feel all Indians smell badly. It is ill formed prejudice and wrong. I walked past a British woman today and she reaked of sweat. Do I therefore judge all British people by that criteria?

[Bluespunk]

Imagine the reaction to something like this in western countries.

You mean those PC cuckold countries where packs of immigrants can go around molesting women and face little consequence but then if the locals protest they get labeled nazis?

I'd take Thailand any day

Nonsense.

[Howitzer]

Alot of ppl the world over don't want to rent to indians and it isn't because they are indians but you know they tend to trash up the place after they done renting the place and they don't pay on time either.