Business Group Calls for 5-Year Professional Visas for Expats

[chrisinth]

Great idea as Work permits run jointly with the correct visa.

A 2 year work permit doesn't mean a 2 year visa at the minute.........................

[dutchweller]

Incidentally, the word professional gets tossed around a lot. A true professional is someone with a terminal degree. Without citing the degrees - doctors, lawyers, certified cpa's, scientists, engineers with adv degrees, teachers, etc.

People building websites and managing social media, spammers, content scribblers are not professionals.

If they are good at what they do and earn a living doing it, they are professionals.

Unfortunately, this is the common wisdom as and it is 100% wrong. Let me guess, you don't have a college degree but think of yourself as a professional?

Tradesmen, technicians, anyone in real estate, 98% of people in insurance, 50% of people in finance, general accountants, office staff, hair salon girls, it gurus and global nomads are not professionals.

pro·fes·sion·al/prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l/

adjective

of, relating to, or connected with a profession.

(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

noun

a person engaged or qualified in a profession

[Don Mega]

Great idea as Work permits run jointly with the correct visa.

A 2 year work permit doesn't mean a 2 year visa at the minute.........................

Iam on 2 year work permits and my extension matches the work permit dates.

[JonboyBKK]

I think the current rules are very outdated and Thailand actually loses a lot of money and also forces many people to be "tourists" when they would happily pay tax.

I have been "living" in Thailand for over 5 years. Although I have a company in Hong Kong another in China, I choose Thailand as a hub as it allows me both the lifestyle and the strategic location to travel to the place I need to for work. I have looked into every option of visa and due to my busy travel schedule only the Elite visa would be an option as I don't want to open yet another company that honestly I have no use for.

What this article suggests is to be more laid back on foreigners that have certain skills that would be hard to find in Thailand. I don't disagree with this approach but these days its so hard for young people to find jobs across Europe and America you would get many working for slightly above what an educated Thai would accept for a salary.

What I would suggest is a visa for digital nomads that have to meet some salary requirement and pay tax on that salary. If you set the bar at something like $50,000 USD a year and that money had to be moved into a Thai account and taxed, it would not be competing with the Elite visa and it would give those of us that make good money but don't have the time to jump through hoops to make Thailand a permanent home.

I think that many people assume all digital nomads are 22 years old with some stupid blog and I think that's a big misconception. I have a computer science degree, I make plenty of money and I own legal companies in other countries. If there was a way for me to commit to Thailand without hiring a bunch of people than I would.

And to say that you are only a professional if you are a lawyer or a doctor to me means you have been under a rock for 15 years. There are many professionals where you use a computer that is not writing code or writing stupid stories of your travel adventures. Its a new digital world and there are many people that have niche businesses that readers of this forum simply don't understand.

[Pepper9187]

Forget it ;

First of all, highly skilled = will ask at least something like a PHD degree.

Second, it doesn't matter to have a 5 years visa, most companies don't hire much foreigners because of the quota foreigners / local hired AND the trouble / stress for them to make the paperwork.

Who cares for a 5 years visa, it doesn't make any sens, if you do your job you will be extended every year, if you don't do your job you will be fired before the 5 years, PLUS it would mean than the companies would have to pay the visa fees for 5 years straight, yes sure it's going to help, thank you very MUCH.

Want to attract more qualified foreigners ? Just make it easier for the companies to hire foreigners, it's as simple as that (not saying to open it full throttle, but just loosen the rules it a bit).

Edited March 3, 2016 by Pepper9187

[JLCrab]

<snip>

If there was a way for me to commit to Thailand without hiring a bunch of people than I would.

<snip2>

Some people just like to swim upstream. The Thai government has repeatedly said that one of their prime objectives in attracting foreigners to work IT in Thailand is to provide jobs and hands-on training for recent computer graduates. Yet many here then say they would come here if they didn't have to hire anybody.

Edited March 3, 2016 by JLCrab

[Guest]

The vast majority of TVF members need not apply, as they can't even spell.

I fall into this category of highly specialized skills. I have a Thai company BEGGING me to work with them for 75,000 baht a month.

I'd rather be beat in the ass with a mad rattlesnake than take that offer.

So you prefer to be unemployed?

PS. If/ when company "begs " someone and they turn it down on the basis of money offered, said company would up the offer IF they were "begging"

Think he schooled you there Jaywalker .. or does your "professional" background not extend to the laws of supply and demand?

[grantbkk]

This could work if the individual's books could be thrown open to one of those ministry things charged with checking the data insuring that all taxes are paid. What a pain that would be as another bureaucratic hurdle but if you want to give 5 year visas to people sitting aground in a design center coffee shop there would have to be controls, more rules and regulations and generally stupid requirements. How about, "Attach a certified copy of your real (natural) father's mother's birth certificate".

If it were legal to have a betting pool here please put me down for $5,000 that this is not going to happen. There are professionals of all ilks here in Thailand that are on the no go list (jobs restricted to Thais) as well as professional criminals that find Thailand a safe haven. Everyone could benefit from a five year visa but I'm afraid the bar will be set too high leading to loopholes to be exploited by the true professionals.

That said, JonboyBKK and his kind should have an opportunity to get a hassle free visa but the hoops will probably not be worth the hassle.

[smotherb]

I wonder what would fall under highly skilled. Would a managing director be in highly skilled category?

Then visa is only half of the issue, how about wort permits for 5 years as well.

I'd say the manager of a two-bit bar could be termed a managing director; just as many blue collar expats have been termed an engineer.

They probably expect highly skilled professionals to be able to find jobs with companies that would process work permits; and the five-year visas would give them the time to do so.

[scorecard]

Incidentally, the word professional gets tossed around a lot. A true professional is someone with a terminal degree. Without citing the degrees - doctors, lawyers, certified cpa's, scientists, engineers with adv degrees, teachers, etc.

People building websites and managing social media, spammers, content scribblers are not professionals.

Agree in this context.

With a Western colleague (Local CEO of a MNC) I came across one of these venues in Bangkok. After a few minutes a young western guy approached us, introduced himself as 'Sam' and asked if we needed personal websites and he indicated he would construct such websites for 10,000Baht.

- We both said no thanks. My colleague asked 'why would I need a personal website?'

- Sam continued - 'But if you don't have a personal website your social media package isn't complete.'

- My colleagues said 'If I wanted that I can get one of my young Thai IT guys to do it for me outside of his work responsibilities, 1,000Baht or less.'

- Sam - 'But there is nobody in Thailand who can make such websites.'

- My colleague asked 'do you have a work permit?'

- Sam - 'no, I don't accept rules like work permits, I am a professional, and I therefore don't need a work permit, and it's not needed nowadays anywhere.'

- My colleague asked Sam 'Where do you actually work?'

- Response from Sam: 'Here in the cafe.'

- My colleague 'But what if the police ask you 'why are you here every day and what you are doing, or similar?'

- Response from Sam - 'it's not there business and they can't ask such questions, it's my personal business what I'm doing.'

- We finished our coffee and left.

About Sam - the epitome of large numbers of the young adults you meet nowadays who are focused on one thing only 'ME' and 'I' and an attitude of I do what I want, never mind any obvious and logical rules or regulations and not too much listening going on.

In regard to this overall thread - some of the posts are obviously just: 'why can't it just be what's nice for me'.

Edited March 3, 2016 by scorecard

[shirtless]

I doubt it will happen , Maybe if our Governments stopped pandering to Thais that arrive in our home countries and reciprocate these rules but only too Thais,

[JimHuaHin]

I hope this will also apply to highly educated professionals who are here on annual 'retirement' visas .. we may have much to offer on a voluntary basis, but are ignored.

[6NS]

The vast majority of TVF members need not apply, as they can't even spell.

I fall into this category of highly specialized skills. I have a Thai company BEGGING me to work with them for 75,000 baht a month.

I'd rather be beat in the ass with a mad rattlesnake than take that offer.

Oh, the irony ! I'd rather be bit in the ass by a rattlesnake.

I agree,

I bet he's a looser. So funny.

[BangkokKen]

That does not smell good.

After the Super tourist METV visa that signed the death act of regular tourist visa.

It sounds like a smoke screen to get rid of regular work permit in the name of promoting ''highly skilled'' ie well paid/well taxed visa.

[louse1953]

I wonder what would fall under highly skilled. Would a managing director be in highly skilled category?

Then visa is only half of the issue, how about wort permits for 5 years as well.

Well... work permit can be extended every year and this would make even sense since they will keep track if people don't change companies, stop working etc.

Visa can also be extended every year, that's not the point . Point is convinience and time wasting , not to mention 90 day reporting.

Reporting is easy but for a busy individual it's a headache to remember and a waste of time doing it.

As for keeping track ,I do not think highly skilled people jump jobs every few months or stay unemployed for long . Not to mention since there is no welfare state doesn't loose anything

Can report online these days and even snail mail.I rekon a skilled person could handle that.As far as remembering,that thing they stare at all day that takes over their brain could remind them.

[SoFarAndNear]

I think the current rules are very outdated and Thailand actually loses a lot of money and also forces many people to be "tourists" when they would happily pay tax.

I have been "living" in Thailand for over 5 years. Although I have a company in Hong Kong another in China, I choose Thailand as a hub as it allows me both the lifestyle and the strategic location to travel to the place I need to for work. I have looked into every option of visa and due to my busy travel schedule only the Elite visa would be an option as I don't want to open yet another company that honestly I have no use for.

What this article suggests is to be more laid back on foreigners that have certain skills that would be hard to find in Thailand. I don't disagree with this approach but these days its so hard for young people to find jobs across Europe and America you would get many working for slightly above what an educated Thai would accept for a salary.

What I would suggest is a visa for digital nomads that have to meet some salary requirement and pay tax on that salary. If you set the bar at something like $50,000 USD a year and that money had to be moved into a Thai account and taxed, it would not be competing with the Elite visa and it would give those of us that make good money but don't have the time to jump through hoops to make Thailand a permanent home.

I think that many people assume all digital nomads are 22 years old with some stupid blog and I think that's a big misconception. I have a computer science degree, I make plenty of money and I own legal companies in other countries. If there was a way for me to commit to Thailand without hiring a bunch of people than I would.

And to say that you are only a professional if you are a lawyer or a doctor to me means you have been under a rock for 15 years. There are many professionals where you use a computer that is not writing code or writing stupid stories of your travel adventures. Its a new digital world and there are many people that have niche businesses that readers of this forum simply don't understand.

Well done said. From my personal experience I can tell that even without a computer science degree you can break 100k per year with online affiliate income.

[louse1953]

Those expats in the cafe,betcha they are on FB or Candy Crush.Do you need a work permit for that?

[louse1953]

The people in the photo do not appear to be highly skilled nor especially busy.

These "global nomads" will aslsdo need to be far less nomadic as any non.o visa will require a residence. Teachers up country have been going thru nightmares demonstrating residence. Even myself in BKK was hassled 1x on my marriage extension paperwork.

Smart global nomads will remain nomads. If it weren't for my wife, Id be in half dozen other countries. Thailand's been finished for a decade and that's not even hipster finished, thats put the last nail in the coffin cuz it died after 2000 finished so kill it already finished.

Any hipster looking for a hipster lifestyle will wander back to hipsterville after a year or two. They always do.

People coming here post 2005 have no staying power. They think they've been here forever and know everything.

Maybe you are a rocket surgeon but unless you are brain surgeon how can you look inside the expats brain to see their highly skilled brain ticking over.Besides they are in the cafe,having a break.

Do teachers up country live in a tent,if not they must live somewhere,so why is it hard to prove residence.Maybe have something to do with having no work permit,i don't know.

Edited March 3, 2016 by louse1953

[MockingJay]

Pipe dream!

[SoFarAndNear]

Failed. What digital nomads need is not a different visa. What needed is a possibility to get a work permit and be able to pay taxes.

No, I believe that's incorrect. Some of us enjoy paying little or zero tax by fully respecting laws in our home countries or the places we may find ourselves in.

So we don't need to be allowed to pay taxes, thank you.

"Some" is not everyone. Pretty sure there are many who would be very happy to pay taxes in return of a 100% legit settlement, especially folks with families who have to worry about changing visa situations.

[HerbalEd]

The vast majority of TVF members need not apply, as they can't even spell.

I fall into this category of highly specialized skills. I have a Thai company BEGGING me to work with them for 75,000 baht a month.

I'd rather be beat in the ass with a mad rattlesnake than take that offer.

You have "highly specialized skills" but are only being offered a job that pays approx. the same as USA minimum wage? Perhaps your skills aren't as valuable as you think.

[Bear0Mack]

I can make 160K a year in Australia as a highly skilled IT professional in security and business relations, but I have no degree or university references. They're a waste of time and money in IT in my opinion. But I do have experience and technical certifications from IT companies. So does that make me a professional or not?

[Don Mega]

Those expats in the cafe,betcha they are on FB or Candy Crush.Do you need a work permit for that?

Why would they need a WP to play games on their phone ?

[HerbalEd]

Incidentally, the word professional gets tossed around a lot. A true professional is someone with a terminal degree. Without citing the degrees - doctors, lawyers, certified cpa's, scientists, engineers with adv degrees, teachers, etc.

People building websites and managing social media, spammers, content scribblers are not professionals.

The word professional has several connotations.Your definition is one of them.

[seancbk]

Makes sense, encouraging more under 50s and digital nomads to base themselves in Thailand would be a positive for the economy.

Anything that bring in more under 50 year old expats to live in Bangkok is a good thing. Especially as under 50's the demographics won't be just men.

We need more young western women here. I have an amazing girlfriend but I really miss having large numbers of western female friends.

[HerbalEd]

Incidentally, the word professional gets tossed around a lot. A true professional is someone with a terminal degree. Without citing the degrees - doctors, lawyers, certified cpa's, scientists, engineers with adv degrees, teachers, etc.

People building websites and managing social media, spammers, content scribblers are not professionals.

If they are good at what they do and earn a living doing it, they are professionals.

Unfortunately, this is the common wisdom as and it is 100% wrong. Let me guess, you don't have a college degree but think of yourself as a professional?

Tradesmen, technicians, anyone in real estate, 98% of people in insurance, 50% of people in finance, general accountants, office staff, hair salon girls, it gurus and global nomads are not professionals.

Try looking up the definition(s) of professional and don't be so attached to your "one" way of using the word.

[louse1953]

Incidentally, the word professional gets tossed around a lot. A true professional is someone with a terminal degree. Without citing the degrees - doctors, lawyers, certified cpa's, scientists, engineers with adv degrees, teachers, etc.

People building websites and managing social media, spammers, content scribblers are not professionals.

If they are good at what they do and earn a living doing it, they are professionals.

Unfortunately, this is the common wisdom as and it is 100% wrong. Let me guess, you don't have a college degree but think of yourself as a professional?

Tradesmen, technicians, anyone in real estate, 98% of people in insurance, 50% of people in finance, general accountants, office staff, hair salon girls, it gurus and global nomads are not professionals.

I rekon the meaning of the terminology has changed over the years.Just having a certain group of people called professionals is a class divide thing.Now days you have professional footballers that left school at 15.My dictionary says a profession is a calling or occupation,esp.learned,scientific or artistic.A professional is engaged in a profession.

[Lupatria]

Makes sense, encouraging more under 50s and digital nomads to base themselves in Thailand would be a positive for the economy.

Makes sense

...and that is exactly the reason why it won't work here. It needs to make Thai sense which is slightly different.

[Boatfreak]

I am a (freelance) inspector accredited by the European Commission, if Thai manufacturers want to export products which falls under the Directive I work for, they need a certificate which I happen to deliver. I have worked in several countries before which were quite happy to host me and offer me permanent residence as it boosted the export economy for millions of Euro. Well guess what Thailand said? A big No no you cannot work here and help us export our products. I don't really care as I make enough money with all the neighbouring countries which are very happy to have an inspector in the vicinity, but please Thailand don't wine that your export is reaching an all time low.

[scorecard]

I can make 160K a year in Australia as a highly skilled IT professional in security and business relations, but I have no degree or university references. They're a waste of time and money in IT in my opinion. But I do have experience and technical certifications from IT companies. So does that make me a professional or not?

Absolutely agree. I worked for 2 giant oil companies most of my life, both had a mixed but positive attitude / policies on this subject:

- Some jobs (not that many) need advanced broad knowledge should be gained through bachelor / masters degrees.

- For many jobs, knowledge gained on the job is enough but the employee has a recognized personal specialization coming from personal high on the job performance probably including valuable and implemented creativity / innovation.