Uncontested divorce, but Thai wife has no Tabien Baan?

[Markinth]

Hi, just a quick question. Wife and I are both agreeable to uncontested divorce at district office where we married (Bueng Kum, Bangkok). We have all the paperwork required, except wife has been living a somewhat unstable life (moving around, staying with various relatives etc) since we separated and says she doesn't have a tabien baan(is not listed on any tabien baan?) . I have two questions. Firstly, is this likely to be true? I thought all Thais basically had to have one to get things done. Secondly, assuming it is true, can we still divorce at the district office without it? If not, what sort of procedures will we have to go through to get her one or a suitable document that would serve this purpose? I won't be able to stay for long when I do come to Thailand to handle the divorce so I'm hoping whatever we need to do won't take too long... Any information or advice would be HUGELY appreciated! Thanks everyone!

[colinneil]

Who says she is not on any tabien bahn?

If only your wife saying this do not believe her.

[KhaoNiaw]

While she's almost certainly registered somewhere, she could mean that she doesn't have easy access to the blue book. A lot of people keep a bunch of copies so that they don't have to travel back every time they need one. There's only one original and if it's with someone she's fallen out with or no longer in contact with, she might feel it's too much trouble to get hold of. Did she have one when you were married or did you notice that she needed it any time during your time together? If so where was she registered or who did she have to go and get it from?

Edited March 5, 2016 by KhaoNiaw

[Markinth]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

[Markinth]

Found this info elsewhere :

"If the house registration is missing they can request a certified copy of it online at any District Office. The document is called "Sam nat ngan tabien rat"

The info above was regarding the process for obtaining a no criminal record certificate. Does anybody have any experience with getting a "Sam nat ngan tabien rat", and/or know if it can be used when getting a divorce?

Edited March 5, 2016 by Markinth

[happylarry]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is for the wife to find a friend who has a blue book then go to the amphur with the friend and get put onto that blue book. All she needs is her id card and obviously the friend to sign for her and its done. You could then do the divorce straight after at the same place.

HL

[blackcab]

Agree. Just get her added to a friend's book. Takes very little time. Right after that she can get a new ID card. Right after that you can get your divorce.

[Liquorice]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is for the wife to find a friend who has a blue book then go to the amphur with the friend and get put onto that blue book. All she needs is her id card and obviously the friend to sign for her and its done. You could then do the divorce straight after at the same place.

HL

Agree. Just get her added to a friend's book. Takes very little time. Right after that she can get a new ID card. Right after that you can get your divorce.

Sorry to disappoint, but you cannot be added to further Tabian Baans.

@markinth. You wife will be named on a TB, whether it be a friend or relatives.

In the event that she has forgotten, or doesn't know where the person is, she only has to give her name to her local Amphur office and they can trace the TB and print her a copy from the register. Every Thai is registered somewhere, but they can only be registered at one address.

She doesn't need a Tabian Baan to get divorced, just her ID card. Her address is immaterial.

You do have to divorce at the same Amphur you got married, so they will have records.

[happylarry]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is for the wife to find a friend who has a blue book then go to the amphur with the friend and get put onto that blue book. All she needs is her id card and obviously the friend to sign for her and its done. You could then do the divorce straight after at the same place.

HL

Agree. Just get her added to a friend's book. Takes very little time. Right after that she can get a new ID card. Right after that you can get your divorce.

Sorry to disappoint, but you cannot be added to further Tabian Baans.

@markinth. You wife will be named on a TB, whether it be a friend or relatives.

In the event that she has forgotten, or doesn't know where the person is, she only has to give her name to her local Amphur office and they can trace the TB and print her a copy from the register. Every Thai is registered somewhere, but they can only be registered at one address.

She doesn't need a Tabian Baan to get divorced, just her ID card. Her address is immaterial.

You do have to divorce at the same Amphur you got married, so they will have records.

Faz is quite correct when he says the wife will be on a TB somewhere and he is also correct when he says that she can get a copy from any amphur, this being down to the wonders of the computer age, also she does not necessarily have to show a copy to get a divorce (but as with the immigration service this is down to the interpretation of the officer at the time, so some may want it).

She can go to any amphur with another TB holder and they will transfer her name, and guess what, due to the computer system her name will magically disappear from the original TB so that she isn't listed on two at the same time.

You can get divorced at any amphur as once again that same computer system can access the original marriage records.

HL

[cnx355]

Found this info elsewhere :

"If the house registration is missing they can request a certified copy of it online at any District Office. The document is called "Sam nat ngan tabien rat"

The info above was regarding the process for obtaining a no criminal record certificate. Does anybody have any experience with getting a "Sam nat ngan tabien rat", and/or know if it can be used when getting a divorce?

Possibly a district office can check were the ID card is registered. All ID card must be registered in a house registration book.

[Liquorice]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is for the wife to find a friend who has a blue book then go to the amphur with the friend and get put onto that blue book. All she needs is her id card and obviously the friend to sign for her and its done. You could then do the divorce straight after at the same place.

HL

Agree. Just get her added to a friend's book. Takes very little time. Right after that she can get a new ID card. Right after that you can get your divorce.

Sorry to disappoint, but you cannot be added to further Tabian Baans.

@markinth. You wife will be named on a TB, whether it be a friend or relatives.

In the event that she has forgotten, or doesn't know where the person is, she only has to give her name to her local Amphur office and they can trace the TB and print her a copy from the register. Every Thai is registered somewhere, but they can only be registered at one address.

She doesn't need a Tabian Baan to get divorced, just her ID card. Her address is immaterial.

You do have to divorce at the same Amphur you got married, so they will have records.

Faz is quite correct when he says the wife will be on a TB somewhere and he is also correct when he says that she can get a copy from any amphur, this being down to the wonders of the computer age, also she does not necessarily have to show a copy to get a divorce (but as with the immigration service this is down to the interpretation of the officer at the time, so some may want it).

She can go to any amphur with another TB holder and they will transfer her name, and guess what, due to the computer system her name will magically disappear from the original TB so that she isn't listed on two at the same time.

You can get divorced at any amphur as once again that same computer system can access the original marriage records.

HL

happylarry, it's only possible to transfer the name onto another TB if she was originally registered at that same Amphur.

If it was another Amphur, she must first have her name removed from their register before she can be included on another TB at another Amphur.

I know this for a fact as I've just helped a couple of expats moving into the local area get a TB from our local Amphur.

They first had to return their original TB to the issuing Amphur, who removed them from their register and issued a document confirming such.

The new local Amphur would only register them and issue new TB's on production of that document.

On the other hand they issued one of the wives a new TB on the proviso that she later returned her old TB to the old Amphur and had her name removed from their register. Guess they trusted her!

All Thais can only be registered on one TB. It's all part of the Civil Registration Act, which acts like an ongoing Census record.

They can own as many properties as they want, and hold a Blue Tabian Baan for each property, but their name can only appear in one book.

Children are added to TB's almost immediately after birth, and issued an ID number, but they cannot hold an ID card until 7 years old.

[MaeJoMTB]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

She just goes to the Amphur office with anyone that has a Blue Book and is prepared to enter her on it.

I paid a neighbor 1,000bht to put my Misses and kid on her book, and 500bht every time we needed to borrow the book.

First person I asked said YES.

(Hint: the little old Thai ladies with houses always need a bit extra money)

PS

Faz is giving incorrect information, don't need the old book to be entered in a new book.

Edited March 8, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[happylarry]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

She just goes to the Amphur office with anyone that has a Blue Book and is prepared to enter her on it.

I paid a neighbor 1,000bht to put my Misses and kid on her book, and 500bht every time we needed to borrow the book.

First person I asked said YES.

(Hint: the little old Thai ladies with houses always need a bit extra money)

PS

Faz is giving incorrect information, don't need the old book to be entered in a new book.

[happylarry]

Thank you MaeJoMTB.

HL

[Liquorice]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

She just goes to the Amphur office with anyone that has a Blue Book and is prepared to enter her on it.

I paid a neighbor 1,000bht to put my Misses and kid on her book, and 500bht every time we needed to borrow the book.

First person I asked said YES.

(Hint: the little old Thai ladies with houses always need a bit extra money)

PS

Faz is giving incorrect information, don't need the old book to be entered in a new book.

PS. Where did I state you needed an old book.

Reread what I said.

Thai or Foreigner can only be registered in one book.

If you want to register in another book, you must be removed from the other.

Please enlighten us MJ why your wife doesn't have her own TB.

[happylarry]

Faz please reread what I said.....when the name and I'd number is inputted to the computer system in any amphur it draws up the proper page for that person from the national files, this includes all the information on that person. So as the new blue book is input then the old one is deleted. You must realize this is the case because you stated earlier that any amphur can print out a copy, so how do you think they can do that if they are not able to access the national system. For this same reason you can divorce at any amphur as well.

You obviously are sincere with your argument but be aware that because you have had one experience at an amphur it doesn't mean they all follow the same ways of working, they are like immigration and are power happy and make their own rules when they want to. My wife works in the legal system and often has to go to amphurs with clients to do various jobs and if they have problems with anyone at the amphur then she has often taken the client to another amphur and somebody has been paid to add the client to their blue book in order to complete whatever.

I am sorry mate but regardless of your personal experience these are facts not fiction.

HL

[Liquorice]

happylarry, please reread what I said.

At no time did I disagree with your report.

I totally agree that they can also trace your details on the national files, but...........that particular Amphur can only transfer your name to another book, if you were registered within the same Amphur in the first place.

What they cannot, or will not do, is amend the records if you registered at a different Amphur in the first place.

My Thai g/f had to surrender her old TB at her old Amphur and be removed from their register when she moved to another area, in order to get a new book from the new Amphur. I encountered the same experience helping two other foreigners.

It's not the name transfer, it's the change of address within a different Amphur that dictates how you proceed.

Thais should also get a new ID card showing the same address as their TB, to avoid issues at other government offices, just in the same way a foreigner should notify Immigration of a change in address and get a new DL to match.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Faz

[happylarry]

Ok my friend, you carry on doing whatever you are doing and I'm sure the world will still carry on going round and round.

Have a nice day.

HL

[MaeJoMTB]

Thai or Foreigner can only be registered in one book.

If you want to register in another book, you must be removed from the other.

Please enlighten us MJ why your wife doesn't have her own TB.

1. Sure, but no need to ever show the old book, removal is automatic and electronic in the Amphur computer system.

2. My misses had two farm properties in rural hell, we don't live in either. But want to use the services of Chiang Mai hospitals and schools for her and our kids. So we needed them all registered in a local house book. I also wanted my boy registered in a local house, when he was born, so he could own land (no chanote) assigned by the village head man which (strictly in the legal sense) can only be owned by those born and first registered in the district.

Since then my Misses has purchased her own house (with a home loan) locally, but it sorted out any problems for a couple of years.

[Liquorice]

I'm not arguing.

Obviously the boss at our Amphur has his facts wrong then.

Strange because the law definitely states, one registration, one book per person.

Guess the law is wrong as well.

So is my g/f for that matter!

She'll be annoyed when I tell her she went 50km back to her old Amphur to be taken of the register, just so she could be issued a new book at this Amphur (allowing her kids to go to local schools).

2. My misses had two farm properties in rural hell, we don't live in either. But want to use the services of Chiang Mai hospitals and schools for her and our kids. So we needed them all registered in a local house book. I also wanted my boy registered in a local house, when he was born, so he could own land (no chanote) assigned by the village head man which (strictly in the legal sense) can only be owned by those born and first registered in the district.

I can understand that, but why didn't your misses just get her own TB in CM.

Why be put on a neighbours book?

A Tabian Baan is an address registration, not proof of ownership.

Or are you saying for an unknown reason she kept her old book at the old address, and was put on another book, therefore being registered twice.

That doesn't make sense as we already agreed the database will show previous registrations.

[MaeJoMTB]

I can understand that, but why didn't your misses just get her own TB in CM.

Why be put on a neighbours book?

A Tabian Baan is an address registration, not proof of ownership.

Landlord was Thai lady living abroad. No book available. No house owner available.

[CWMcMurray]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is for the wife to find a friend who has a blue book then go to the amphur with the friend and get put onto that blue book. All she needs is her id card and obviously the friend to sign for her and its done. You could then do the divorce straight after at the same place.

HL

Agree...

You don't need the old house book to transfer into another new one..

This is best and easiest solution

[CWMcMurray]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

She just goes to the Amphur office with anyone that has a Blue Book and is prepared to enter her on it.

I paid a neighbor 1,000bht to put my Misses and kid on her book, and 500bht every time we needed to borrow the book.

First person I asked said YES.

(Hint: the little old Thai ladies with houses always need a bit extra money)

PS

Faz is giving incorrect information, don't need the old book to be entered in a new book.

PS. Where did I state you needed an old book.

Reread what I said.

Thai or Foreigner can only be registered in one book.

If you want to register in another book, you must be removed from the other.

Please enlighten us MJ why your wife doesn't have her own TB.

This is not true anymore...

Wife did it with both little brother and mother...

Moved them from house book in outer province and add to her house book here in Bangkok

Nothing to do at the old location, all can be done at the province adding into new blue book

As others have said the people at Ampur advise no need to remove from old Tabian Baan anymore ... Now it is all computerized.

[Liquorice]

Yup thanks khaoniaw, I'm pretty sure that's the case. I remember when she wanted to renew her I'd or something she had some problems with her tabien baan. She was on some friends or relatives I can't remember who exactly. Hmmm. Not sure what to do. I don't want to have to hang around for weeks while she tracks down the blue book. How long does it take for a Thai to get entered into someone's tabien baan? Is it a long or difficult process? I really want to get this divorce done asap and I do genuinely think my wife does too (I've agreed to give her some cash when it is done), so really need some good advice here guys...

She just goes to the Amphur office with anyone that has a Blue Book and is prepared to enter her on it.

I paid a neighbor 1,000bht to put my Misses and kid on her book, and 500bht every time we needed to borrow the book.

First person I asked said YES.

(Hint: the little old Thai ladies with houses always need a bit extra money)

PS

Faz is giving incorrect information, don't need the old book to be entered in a new book.

PS. Where did I state you needed an old book.

Reread what I said.

Thai or Foreigner can only be registered in one book.

If you want to register in another book, you must be removed from the other.

Please enlighten us MJ why your wife doesn't have her own TB.

This is not true anymore...

Wife did it with both little brother and mother...

Moved them from house book in outer province and add to her house book here in Bangkok

Nothing to do at the old location, all can be done at the province adding into new blue book

As others have said the people at Ampur advise no need to remove from old Tabian Baan anymore ... Now it is all computerized.

Well I'd say I stand corrected, but my last experience was only 3 weeks ago.

The Amphur here insisted on surrendering the old book to the old Amphur and getting a receipt as such before they would issue a new book.

There was another topic recently where someone else reported the same experience as myself.

However I appreciate this is Thailand and anything is possible.

[Markinth]

Guys, thanks for all your help with my question. If I understand this right then, the wife doesn't actually need to take her tabien baan book to the Amphur then? Just her ID card, and they can just look up her tabien baan registration details on the computer? We can go to the same Amphur we got married at, that's no problem...

[happylarry]

Guys, thanks for all your help with my question. If I understand this right then, the wife doesn't actually need to take her tabien baan book to the Amphur then? Just her ID card, and they can just look up her tabien baan registration details on the computer? We can go to the same Amphur we got married at, that's no problem...

Yes.good luck.

HL

[Liquorice]

Guys, thanks for all your help with my question. If I understand this right then, the wife doesn't actually need to take her tabien baan book to the Amphur then? Just her ID card, and they can just look up her tabien baan registration details on the computer? We can go to the same Amphur we got married at, that's no problem...

She doesn't need a Tabian Baan to get divorced, just her ID card..............hope it goes straight forward for you.

[Liquorice]

OK, so this morning I went to the local Amphur in Roi Et with a friend who's moved from Sisaket, where he had a TB issued, but now wants to change it to his new address in Roi Et.

First he is told he must take the old book back to Sisaket who will do the change of address on their database. They will issue him with a form which he returns with to Roi Et who then issue his new book for his new address.

I mention the current debate and how some foreigners are reporting a different procedure.

He looks up towards the sky , grimaces, and tells me "This is the procedure in Thailand. It is the same procedure throughout Thailand and the same form should be completed all Amphurs when changing address within another Amphur"

Form attached.

Now I don't doubt your experiences. but it appears the Amphurs in your cases didn't follow the procedures correctly.

[Liquorice]

OK, so this morning I went to the local Amphur in Roi Et with a friend who's moved from Sisaket, where he had a TB issued, but now wants to change it to his new address in Roi Et.

First he is told he must take the old book back to Sisaket who will do the change of address on their database. They will issue him with a form which he returns with to Roi Et who then issue his new book for his new address.

I mention the current debate and how some foreigners are reporting a different procedure.

He looks up towards the sky , grimaces, and tells me "This is the procedure in Thailand. It is the same procedure throughout Thailand and the same form should be completed all Amphurs when changing address within another Amphur"

Form attached.

Now I don't doubt your experiences. but it appears the Amphurs in your cases didn't follow the procedures correctly.

[Liquorice]

OK, so this morning I went to the local Amphur in Roi Et with a friend who's moved from Sisaket, where he had a TB issued, but now wants to change it to his new address in Roi Et.

First he is told he must take the old book back to Sisaket who will do the change of address on their database. They will issue him with a form which he returns with to Roi Et who then issue his new book for his new address.

I mention the current debate and how some foreigners are reporting a different procedure.

He looks up towards the sky , grimaces, and tells me "This is the procedure in Thailand. It is the same procedure throughout Thailand and the same form should be completed all Amphurs when changing address within another Amphur"

Form attached.

Now I don't doubt your experiences. but it appears the Amphurs in your cases didn't follow the procedures correctly.