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Hiv In Bkk For Newbies


nice_guy :-)

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If a farang who already has a work permit, and is covered by the government's insurance scheme tests positive for HIV what happens?

-Does the health-insurance bureau report anything to the government? Will this affect getting my work permit renewed, or planning my long-term future in Bangkok? Is there some sort of HIV "black list"?

-Is it better to just go to a clinic? Is it anonymous at a clinic? Can they provide cheap medication? It just seems a shame to not use my health insurance though if it would bring overall long term costs down.

I know i have to take care of myself, I am very worried about my HIV status.

Equally however I am worried about my job. I currently have the most perfect job, and provides me with a salary over 40,000....so all the work permit stuff goes fairly smooth. I have been offered a long-term, and attractive offer to stay with this company...I really want to stay in Thailand for good...I am 27...

I JUST NEED THE BEST, MOST KNOWEDGEABLE ADVICE PEOPLE HAVE TO OFFER ON THE BEST WAY FORWARD. I NEED TO MAKE SOME SMART, EDUCATED CHOICES NOW.....seeing as it was a few bad choices that got me to this point.

Thank you.....please...everyone reply and try to help ease my mind

thanks

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I really do not know.

But anyway, I do not think they are such well organized that your status will be known to the Immigration Dept.

Now, it should probably be the least of you problems. You need medical attention NOW.

Is there a cheap clinic with cheap medication?

I'm afraid you should not see it that way.

Please do whatever necessary to get adequate medical care and forget anything else,...

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Guest IT Manager

HIV is an illness, not a death sentence.

There are ways of getting medication which is cheap and effective, but you need, first and foremost a support platoon.

You are not the only member of the forum, who has this illness, I am not the only one who is happy to say, if I can help with support, I will.

I am able and prepared to form a group of anonymous people to support you and any others finding themselves in this situation. You need a few minor things, like an instant messenger, a completely secure email and a knowledge that the anonymity of the monitor and keyboard is not automatically a separation from people with the balls, and the heart to care. I would guess in 5 minutes, I could send 5 PM's and have a 6 person support group formed I sh1t you not young man.

You also need to know that your anonymity is forever, as long as thats the way you want it.

If you need to talk on the phone, PM me and I will send my number for you to do so. If you need advice on meds etc., I have enough friends in this family to say with absolute certainty, you will not stand alone.

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Guest IT Manager

Not sure Blue. I guess I look at it from this perspective, if he is, he knows there are folks here who actually do have an idea about the disease and it's management, both medically and psycho-socially. (This the big one in my view).

If he isn't what about the 75% of users who never register, but are here all the time anyway, see there are answers being offered to advice sought, and take the plung and contact members.

One thing to note, that a work permit medical does not include a blood test. That in itself is a help to him and whoever else. Last point is we do have several members in the same situation he has outlined. If we base the guests/members figures of 3/1, that makes me think there are other people in the same situation, wondering what the hel1 they can do.

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When one has been driven out of his family for being gay, no dream of health insurance in the states, and has a perfect work situation here things look a lot different.

I am a social refugee.

I come from small-town red neck america. I was beat up numerous times growing up because of my perceived sexuality. My overly-religious family drove me out. That's my america.

Maybe this sounds freakish, but i cannot go back. My nationality allows me to live anywhere, but prohibited to work in most western countries. I want to find a way out of my hole, it's more complex than just the HIV question. I plan to get help soon...my visa is renewed for one year this week. I plan to go to my insured hospital (camillian) the next day.

Listen I am a smart, educated guy. After 4 years here I do have a vague idea of how this society works. To be honest however, that is why I am so cautious about how I approach this.

If I do have HIV I know that it is not just the next few weeks I have to be concerned about, but the rest of my life. Treatment is for life. I need help making these decisions which will affect me for years to come.

Bangkok is my home. I speak fluent thai. I'm not going back. I will not screw it all up because I went to the wrong doctor, or clinic or whatever.....I won't be forced home cause I am sick. To go back to the land of no health insurance and no support network at all WOULD be a death sentence.

In many ways dying here in silence is better than going back to that society.

Blutone: Although all help and comments are appreciated, to be honest your tone made me wanna crawl deeper in my hole more than anything else. You can't know where I am coming from, I know that....but please try to understand. I know the severity and urgency of my situation, but i also know that rash uneducated decisions are what got me to this point to begin with. I am so ###### FREAKED OUT...I have no one to turn to, no one I feel i can trust...that is why I have turned to this forum.

More detailed information on any of my original questions, or other resources to look into would be appreciated.

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nice guy, I don't know the exact answers. I doubt there is an HIV black list, but perhaps another member with more experience in Thailand could shed some light on this. If you have doubts about using your health insurance, I would imagine that the larger hospitals like Bumrungrad would be very, very good at keeping your medical information quiet. I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, but it might be worth going to some of the better hospitals and seeing what a treatment plan will cost if you pay for it yourself.

What's important is that you get on the medication ASAP. As you probably know, if the sooner you start the better. Some people have even eradicated the virus from their blood to the point that it does not appear in blood tests. So there is hope. Do not despair. Perhaps in the short term you can pay for the treatment yourself until you are 100% sure that it is safe to use your insurance. I wish you all the best.

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Blutone: Although all help and comments are appreciated, to be honest your tone made me wanna crawl deeper in my hole more than anything else. You can't know where I am coming from, I know that....but please try to understand. I know the severity and urgency of my situation, but i also know that rash uneducated decisions are what got me to this point to begin with. I am so ###### FREAKED OUT...I have no one to turn to, no one I feel i can trust...that is why I have turned to this forum.

More detailed information on any of my original questions, or other resources to look into would be appreciated.

Sorry I offended you, Niceguy.

I'm in fact trying to understand.

As far as you questions are concerned, I don't think you should worry about the visa as the visa requirement does not include a blood test.

And the clinic is a clinic, you are a patient and they are normally not concerned by you visa but are there other people who can confirm that?

On your last statement, you speak fluent Thai, is there really nobody in Thailand you can trust?

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Guest IT Manager

NG I can relate to the questions raised so far. Surprisingly enough, clinics are frequently a better idea.

Again, your question about the WP is moot since there is no blood test. IMO better to locate a small specialist clinic, or PM me and I can put you in touch with our family physician by telephone, in CM.

The reason for the PM, it has to be your decision mate. It's totally up to you to move forward or stand still.

Visa/Permit issues are minor, based on what you have said. It's also possible to get info from others as to who they use, if you wish. Any members who are using a good service in BKK please contact me by PM. I will pass it on so the anonymity of members is protected totally.

If you are concerned, do a one time email and get a user name, and use that to contact me, rather than use your normal ID.

IT

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Guest IT Manager
nice guy, I don't know the exact answers. I doubt there is an HIV black list, but perhaps another member with more experience in Thailand could shed some light on this. If you have doubts about using your health insurance, I would imagine that the larger hospitals like Bumrungrad would be very, very good at keeping your medical information quiet. I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, but it might be worth going to some of the better hospitals and seeing what a treatment plan will cost if you pay for it yourself.

What's important is that you get on the medication ASAP. As you probably know, if the sooner you start the better. Some people have even eradicated the virus from their blood to the point that it does not appear in blood tests. So there is hope. Do not despair. Perhaps in the short term you can pay for the treatment yourself until you are 100% sure that it is safe to use your insurance. I wish you all the best.

Just so we don't make this a free for all, Bob, that isn't always true, and in fact rarely is. But let me overview why.

NG doesn't appear to have a test result yet. I may be misreading, but my view is that he is aware of a change or has a reason to suspect he has been infected.

Once the result of the test is positive, and I have to suggest 2 separate tests if he has a firm reason to believe he has, and the first comes back negative, then the second has to confirm. Unfortunately many of the tests administered here, outside of labs and major hospitals, are questionable.

With confirmation of sero-conversion, you need to get a CD4 CD8 count and a viral load test. These first two will cost about 1100 baht normally, viral load around 6,000baht.

When CD4/8 rests on 200, then normally HAARTS is a good idea. This is not always the practice followed and some patients prefer to self manage without drugs. This is OK but i the long term, does not provide a long management solution.

Thailand now has the GPOvir series, which is a triple combination 1 tab twice daily, so is easy to manage. AZT-DDI-Sequinovir, the first choice of the multinationals, is a gut wrench and has enormous side effects in a large percentage of users. Our experience so far with GPOvir in a 16 yr old is zero side effects and approaching 18 months, with no referenced treatment rejection. A good sign.

So.. stay healthy as you can, talk to P1P about supportive non invasive medication, (natural) and do as best you can. Remember you are not the only one, you are not alone, in spite of how you feel, and don't be afraid to reach out to someone.

And if no one knows, how can there be a list.

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Nice Guy, I have knowledge of this from a girl who's treatment I pay for every month.

Firstly, HIV has no bearing on your visa or work permit - there are no laws here denying either due to your HIV status.

Secondly, personally I would AVOID going to your employers preferred hospital. Too many Thai's carry a stigma about HIV and if your employer found out, you could lose your job and unlike Western countries, have no real chance of appealing. Your employer is likely to find out from their insurers as typically they are required to detail types of tests etc undertaken in any claim year. i.e listing values of treatments even without the specifics. Easy to find out the details if someone wanted to.

My experience has been with Bumrungrad Hospital and one of their specialist doctors called Dr Mattana Hanavich. She works Mon-Fri 5.00 - 8.00pm and looks after my friend. She teaches at Chulalongkorn Uni Med School as one of the HIV experts and attends conferences all over the world.

As you are probably aware, she will initially order couple of tests, Western Blot test etc and possibly hold off for Cd4 and viral load, depending upon your symptons. All Bumrungrad HIV tests are double checked at Bkk General Hospital as well. She is very cost focused and for example does not agree with quarterly testing, unless you have bucket loads of money as she feels the cost is too high versus the benefit.

As an example, my friend is on local generic AZT, imported DDI and Stocrin. Cost is approx 9,000 baht per month. Doctor fee is 500 baht. Blood tests such as CD4, complete blood works etc run around 2,500 from memory and viral load about 6,500 baht. She tests for CD4 and viral load every 6 months now (quarterly for first 6 months). This doctor is also able to issue prescritions for GPO medicine but she advised against it in this case as she is too concerned at side effects from one of the components (D4T I think it was). She advised that the medications can be obtained from the Govt clinic but said that Bumrungrad hardly marks up HIV medicines at all and she suggested easy and quicker to buy from them (+ if medication is more than 10,000 baht a time, they discount by a further 10% - the prices above are with the discount).

Combivir (AZT & 3TC in single twice tablet tablet) + Stocrin which is the standard treatment in the west for most treatment naive patients (with appropriatte low Viral load levels) costs around 11,000 baht per month from Bumrungrad however this doctor did not recommend it due to the fact that they discovered this girl also has Hep B and is very small. The doctor wants to keep 3TC in reserve (as its a leading Hep B medicine) and she also felt that the AZT dose in Combivir would be too strong (300MG as opposed to 250MG she has prescribed daily). Actually thinking about it, her cost might now be slightly lower as she has also reduced her Stocrin dose from 3 tablets daily to 2 tablets once she had hit the undectable level.

The time between being diagnosed and then starting treatment was 18 months. The doctor did not recommend starting treatment as she had already passed sero-conversion and suggested waiting until CD4 levels went to 200. On latest test 1 month ago, her CD4 had risen to over 600 and viral load is undectable. Today she holds down a job as an assistant in a minimart and to look at her you would have no idea she is HIV positive.

Luckily she is very good at taking the medicines on time and is in complete awe of this doctor who she thinks is the best in the world !!! beware though, she is always late and overruns every appointment time as she is very thorough with every patient. If you have the 8.00pm appointment, dont expect to be seen typically until 9.30pm. Also an important fact, this doctor carries no stigma's which is why I think my friend likes her so much. She used to work as a service girl in a NEP gogo bar and has at best a basic education level however this doctor treats her as an equal and is in no way condescending to her. On the couple of check-ups I went to with her, I also saw gay couples there waiting so I suspect she is equally open minded.

Hope this helps.

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Nice guy,

I wish everything gets better and please accept the help you can get as medecines aren't the only thing that keep you going. Friendship and people you can trust are just as important or even more.

Nowadays medecines help a lot, keeping a healthy lifestyle is also important, and if you can warning the people you had sex with can also be importante for them.

I'm going to Thailand from may 7th until 26th. If there is something I can buy in Holland for you just let me know.

Take care

anamore

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was diagnosed HIV positive six years ago in Bangkok. I was placed on basic medication which lasted 12 months before the virus adapted and rejected it. I have since been enquiring both through various bulletin boards and through Bumrungrad Hospital for cheap medication here to replace what I am taking. I was advised not to go for the GPOvir because of the side effects of facial fat loss. All in all I have been through the cost of medication here at several hospitals, clinics and doctors and whichever way you look at it, it is not cheap (certainly not for a long period of time). The number of doctors who are completely au fait with the disease are very low, even those mentioned on this bulletin board are unaware of some of the drugs available in the western world. However helpful they may be I am a firm believer that returning to your country of origin, seeing a specialist for tests and getting the correct medication, although time consuming, is far cheaper than anything offered here.

As far as visa and work permit are concerned, there is no reason to advise anyone of your condition and consequently it will not affect your stay here.

If you wish to contact me for any advice or for a chat just acknowledge and I'll be in touch. You are not alone and there are many sufferers like yourself but maintaining a positive attitude and lifestyle goes a long way to peace of mind. HIV is no longer a killer disease and can be controlled very easily by a regime of effective medication.

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Hi I m new on this board,

the idea of forming a support group is something that I wd like to help with,

but I m a little afraid of all the differences in coverage and comfort of people confronted to this problem together , I mean someone who has insurance coverage or who experiences little health problems as opposed to somebody in a situation without medicine or funds;

diagnosed seven years ago this is how I do it:

for my work permit health certificate I just go to a small "clinic" and they give me one for 100 thb:

so while with a so called communicable disease you are not officially welcome , in reality it doesn t seem to be a big problem;

my meds are sent to me from abroad, that s also not allowed but hey;

if I have a problem I go to a specialist in a big hospital, I have coverage thru my contract with a company abroad,

sorry if I stay a little vague, I m not sure if my privacy is sufficiently protected using this medium, GOOD LUCK to all.

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Hello my friend, ig you are HIV positive then don't worry..you are NOT gonna die tomorrow.

With the medication we have on the market today (also Thailand) then you don't have to worry, you can buy cheap medication in Thailand the same as we have in Europe but manufaktured in India.

If you never ever forget to take you tablets then you can live a normal life and get old.. but you must never forget to eat your tablets, if you forget to eat your medication for about up tp one week then the virus will be emune to the medication and you will havge to start on new tablets.. but if you have brain and remember all this.. then you don't have to worry anything !

Keep up the faith.

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Nice Guy, I have knowledge of this from a girl who's treatment I pay for every month.

Firstly, HIV has no bearing on your visa or work permit - there are no laws here denying either due to your HIV status.

If there are no laws that denying you stay in Thailand when you are HIV positive, then please explain me, why the Nong Khai Immigration reply me with this:

Thai Law on Immigration, Section 12 says following:

“Aliens whom fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom:”

And paragraph 4 under Section 12 says:

“Being mentally unstable or having any of the diseases as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations”

In the mentioned regulation HIV is clearly stated as one the diseases.

So, if you enter Thailand you will be violating the Law, and since this is a point where we are quite strict, you will be imprisoned and deported when we found out.

How can we found out? There are many ways how we do that, and it happens not too rare that we do.

We are deeply sorry but forget about Thailand. The consequences of breaking our Laws in this regard are far too serious, and the risk of getting caught doing so is quite high.

But as many other write here at the forum, just keep a low profile, then I guess there is no reason not to settle down in Thailand. :o

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Hi again Hotshot :D

Aliens who are HIV + must not enter thailand but if you only are HIV positive then no problem.

I guess HIV+ is the same as AIDS? :o

But if you read my post to Nice Guy, then you'll see that also HIV are not allowed to enter Thailand.

From Immigration in Nong Khai! :D

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I was diagnosed HIV positive six years ago in Bangkok. I was placed on basic medication which lasted 12 months before the virus adapted and rejected it. I have since been enquiring both through various bulletin boards and through Bumrungrad Hospital for cheap medication here to replace what I am taking. I was advised not to go for the GPOvir because of the side effects of facial fat loss. All in all I have been through the cost of medication here at several hospitals, clinics and doctors and whichever way you look at it, it is not cheap (certainly not for a long period of time). The number of doctors who are completely au fait with the disease are very low, even those mentioned on this bulletin board are unaware of some of the drugs available in the western world. However helpful they may be I am a firm believer that returning to your country of origin, seeing a specialist for tests and getting the correct medication, although time consuming, is far cheaper than anything offered here.

As far as visa and work permit are concerned, there is no reason to advise anyone of your condition and consequently it will not affect your stay here.

If you wish to contact me for any advice or for a chat just acknowledge and I'll be in touch. You are not alone and there are many sufferers like yourself but maintaining a positive attitude and lifestyle goes a long way to peace of mind. HIV is no longer a killer disease and can be controlled very easily by a regime of effective medication.

Hey Suzi, what you are saying is cirrekt, the doctors are very helpful but they don't know much about the medication and the treatment and that is a pity, the best treatment you can get is in Europe, but to travel to europe after medication is not cheap either !

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i think informing your employers depends on the type of work you are employed in.

if you are HIV positive surly you would not want to risk infecting someone else through a work related incident.

How should he infect otyher people with HIV, even if he works as a cook he could not give any one HIV through hes job so what is the point :o

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Hey Suzi, what you are saying is cirrekt, the doctors are very helpful but they don't know much about the medication and the treatment and that is a pity, the best treatment you can get is in Europe, but to travel to europe after medication is not cheap either !

Agreed, but it is still cheaper to return to UK every 4 months for medication than any price quotes I have been given in BKK.

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Hi Suzy,

I m on combi and viramune (those names!)

1/ In Th it works out at 600 thb a day,

in Europe it s more expensive, but

2/I have social security coverage in EU (expat branch) and they have an agreement with a pharmacist in my hometown to pay the drugs to him directly instead of me paying the pharmacist first and the asking repayment from social security.(third party payment)

3/friends pick up the medicine and send it to me;

this has worked for 7 years;

Maybe some elements of my MO are useful to you, best wishes

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Nice guy,

If some day in the future you do find you are infected the gay community in San Diego is very tight and organized.

Top notch medical care is provided without cost to those who cannot afford it.

Right now from reading your post I am more concerned about your psycological and emotional health as I do not believe you are thinking properly.

I work with HIV patients here at the Owen Clinic at UCSD Medical Center. It is state of the art and there are lots of financiial assistance programs in place from the city, county and state.

Moma's Kitcken also provides free meals. Think about it?

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HIV and AIDS are not one and the same. AIDS is a progression of HIV and extremely difficult to treat if allowed to get out of hand.

As to cross contamination. Providing one's viral load count is undetectable, the chances of cross infection (so I'm told) are minimal - less than 1%. Other contagious diseases rate much higher.

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Guest KlongHin
Hi again Hotshot  :o

Aliens who are HIV + must not enter thailand but if you only are HIV positive then no problem.

Hey White....I hate to be pedantic ... but + means positive. Thus... HIV positive is the same as HIV + EXACTLY the same

And I hate to be a pain in the arse, but from where you got the information that HIV+ (or positive) people are banned to enter to Thailand?

Latest Interior Minister regulation doesn't say that, you started something and I honnestly don't understand why you do not provide a clear answer about it.

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