Update Of Restricted Occupation For Foreigners

[Zen]

Good grief...So...what else can we do in Thailand??

[lucky2103]

Well, may I admit that I was a trucker in LOS for many years, but never got aprehended, just the usual tea money for the highway police. TIT

[ThaiWest]

Good grief...So...what else can we do in Thailand??

It might not be what "else" but... gee, I guess we just continue to bring funds in and support our thai wives, wives' families and friends... OH YES... and our favorite bargirls!

After living in Thailand for more than 6 years (legally), it is most clear the Thai government wants us to bring loads of funds in and spend it all. Nothing more and nothing less.

When I first came to Thailand I had an "official" put it to me like this... any activity, be it spoken word, physical action, or other, which could be profitable, consitutes WORK [hum... when I pay for services, isn't that "profitable" ... am I not paying for services (pay-check)?]. That included as in my case, sitting at a bar and discussing methods of using a computer or how I performed certain tasks using a computer!

But... I am STILL happy to live in Thailand and STILL I chose it over my native country (...which is where most Thais want to go and live!)!

[Maestro]

Is there anything major here?

I have a feeling it is mostly – perhaps entirely – a new, more accurate English translation of the same original Thai text, more accurate in the eyes of whoever had to decide on it.

---------------

Maestro

[BKK90210]

29. Professional civil engineering concerning design and calculation, systemization, analysis, planning, testing, construction supervision, or consulting services, excluding work requiring specialized techniques.

What are some of these?...any examples?

Edited October 27, 2006 by BKK90210

[thegrim]

29. Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work

Hmmm This explains a lot! maybe if this was relaxed they may even get thoses electrical cables underground on Beach Rd Pattaya How may years has it been now

[Khun Bob]

Labor constitutes getting paid for work, right? So it would only justify as manual labor if you got paid. (In reference to tsunami & cigarettes).

The only thing affecting me on the list is #28, but I already knew that.

To make matters worse, the Thai exchanges don't have American ADRs, so I actually need to be in Thailand to invest in the country... YET, I can't invest in the country because I'm not a Thai.

Interesting - does this apply to Tamesak (sounds like that anyway) holdings ?

Also maybe they want foreigners to stop investing in Thailand so as to bring the value of the Thai baht down so they can sell items cheaper to foreign countries - expect that may be difficult as many factories are foreign owned.

Or do what you like, keep low key, dont flaunt your wealth, be careful who you cross and have a pot put away for disaster management (buy yourself out of jail) ?

Seems in many places the law enforcers dont know their own laws and so long as you generally conform, you shouldnt attract too much attention.

Even on this forum many people are open about how they make money in thailand and have been doing for a long time. Oh of course you could marry into a well connected family - thats another option. High friends is also possible, but in thailand family seems to be stronger - still they may not necessarily like you...

[bkkandrew]

Well, this is just another blow for the Thai economy. I am almost beyond caring what they do anymore. I export from Asia and at the same time am losing the will to continue to do this from the very country I have made my base, i.e. Thailand..

Edited October 27, 2006 by bkkandrew

[peteinCM]

I can't imagine this updated list really changing the staus quo very much.

I notice working in a restaurant or bar is not prohibited unless it falls under shopkeeping.

[Maestro]

Well, this is just another blow for the Thai economy. I am almost beyond caring what they do anymore. I export from Asia and at the same time am losing the will to continue to do this from the very country I have made my base, i.e. Thailand..

I’m afraid I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

In what way does the list of prohibited occupations affect you? I do not see “export” mentioned in the list. Would you care to elaborate?

---------------

Maestro

[pakwan]

2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision .

quite a few posters on thai visa are involved in the above

YES! I'll bet they are! Baaaaaaaaad Boys

Edited October 27, 2006 by pakwan

[Hublet]

Okay, apart from a few changes in the wording and grammar, this is the same as before.

No Foreigner can perform any job in Thalind which a Thai can do.

(Something the UK should implement)

That means you can not pick up a hammer

you can not help your neigbour fix their loo

you can not type a letter in Thai

you can not drive a Tuk Tuk

In line with this the rules for work permits have also changed recently and whilst you still apparently need a degree (I had one but I know many who do not and yet they have work permits) a foreigner can no longer be empolyed as a consultant. This puts a spanner in the works for many.

There's an old saying - Locks dont keep the badies out they just slow them down.

The Gov is tightening and tightening the rules and regs for living and working in LOS. This is understandable its their country and they want to protect their people. What really irks me is the number of Farang companies who somehow get away with continuing their businesses in LOS and then recommend to newbies that they to also break the law. These same people then proceed to tell the Newbie (for payment of course) how to circumnavigate each law. It is hard to stop corruption and illegal operations at the best of times but for those, who have a valid and legal reason to be living and working in Thailand, this tightening of rules just makes life that bit more difficult because they are tied with the same brush.

Sorry for the rants but its the same story all over the world. The normal bureaucratic red tape is tied up and unavailble to the normal legitmate person by those who try to bypass, hoodwink or use the system for their own professional or personal purposes.

[farang2002]

The category 1 (Manual Work) is a catch all - as explained to me by an immigration officer once, the act of passing the salary envelope from a desk top to the relevant employee can be classed as manually distributing, and if they're after you, or don't like the look of you, they can push for it to become a deportable offence. They further reinforced that typing a letter on a PC (or an email) to an oversea customer (or even to your personal bankers back in your home country) classifies as secretarial services and is forbidden.

I've always maintained that is exactly how the Thai authorities like to keep things, i.e. for all intents and puproses make everything illegal and then enforce the laws (or not) as they see fit. Their fallback position is always, "No new policies here - Breathing has always been illegal!"

Seems it's getting more and more difficult to be farang in LOS. Thailand is making Vietnam look like a viable option for retirement....if I canonly convince my Thai wife!

[andy1308]

Hi,

Am I missing something obvious?

There is one profession where, as I understand it, you cannot work unless you are a Thai that is not in the list, and that is an editor of a newspaper or magazine. I know there are ways around it, but is that sector covered by another decree?

When applying for the license to produce a new magazine or newspaper it specifically states the editor must be a Thai national - or have the rules on that changed?

Andy.

[ServeUncutUncle]

2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision

Guess that means we can still buy The Bars Girls Family Water Buffalo

Edited October 28, 2006 by ServeUncutUncle

[bkkandrew]

Well, this is just another blow for the Thai economy. I am almost beyond caring what they do anymore. I export from Asia and at the same time am losing the will to continue to do this from the very country I have made my base, i.e. Thailand..

I’m afraid I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

In what way does the list of prohibited occupations affect you? I do not see “export” mentioned in the list. Would you care to elaborate?

---------------

Maestro

You don't know what I am trying to say...

Right - this is clearly a "catch all" rule, discretion available for sale...

Inevitably when deliveries to port etc. slip up (TIT), I drive them myself. Fall foul of the law.

Girls in the textile factory cannot lift the heavy boxes onto the pickup, I help to get the job done. Ditto

Factory office cannot work out simple maths on an export transaction, I assist, Ditto..

Need I go on.??

Fed up with this drip-feed of BS. Can go elsewhere to source goods. Probably will do so, unless you have any bright ideas??

[Hublet]

I don't know about elsewhere but in Hua Hin there have been several (6 to my knowledge) bar owners who have been arrested, taken away, fined and threatened with deportation just for sitting in their bars without a work permit. Apparently it is classed as Touting and therefore they are working.

On another note, I don't understand the law pertaining to pulishing either. As a Farang who owns an Information Centre I contacted the Public Relations Office and requested permission to write, produce and publish small booklet type pamphlets about the festivals and events of Thailand, including the members of the Royal Family and was give permission in writing. Needless to say I kept that letter in a protective cover and treated it like gold.

Khun Bob, I think you may have a point there too. I hadn't though of it in that way. You could be right.

[andy1308]

It might depend on whether you intend selling the publication or not. My company is going through the process right now and I've just seen the (Thai) form we need to fill in before we are given permission to publish.

Another point worth noting is that any magazine from outside Thailand can be sold here without the need for a license (such as the English Language ones we seek in Asia Books and the like). Yet if you want to translate that same English content for the Thai market you need Government/Police permission to do so.

Amazing Thailand I guess.

[bahtbox]

Hi,

I wonder why massage and prostitution are not included in that list. Are they allowed or

do they fall under one of the listed categories.

If not there is still hope for some of us eh?

Bahtbox

[chris2155]

i was shopping and walk passed a police officer, immediately i drop my shopping bags and walk on, becasuse if i continued on with my shopping,

i could be deported for carring out manual work, so i though how to get around this, yes i know hire a thai to delivery my shopping, but then i thought if i give him my shopping list and he didn't like me he could take this list to thec police and i could be deported for doing bookwork,

so i thought time to leave thailand and move to another location in asia, but when i thought about it,

when i get to the airport to fill in the departure form i could once again be arrested for doing book work in thailand, so i am unable to leave also.

so the only option open is to give my self up.

he he he

[Leesoi2]

It seems strange to try to restrict what kind of work a foriegner can do in your country with the idea of protecting your peoples' jobs when you look at other countries policies. My wife came to America and they gave her a card that lasted 2 years and said she could work ANY job she wanted. After that they gave her a 10 year card, again with the right to any occupation. The people of America enjoy a wealthy economy and low unemployment, with no petty worries about who does what job. Competition makes strength, Thailand would become stronger in many ways simply by opening up. What kind of karma does a nation reap by restricting talents from being exercised?

[dsfbrit]

Good grief...So...what else can we do in Thailand??

It might not be what "else" but... gee, I guess we just continue to bring funds in and support our thai wives, wives' families and friends... OH YES... and our favorite bargirls!

After living in Thailand for more than 6 years (legally), it is most clear the Thai government wants us to bring loads of funds in and spend it all. Nothing more and nothing less.

When I first came to Thailand I had an "official" put it to me like this... any activity, be it spoken word, physical action, or other, which could be profitable, consitutes WORK [hum... when I pay for services, isn't that "profitable" ... am I not paying for services (pay-check)?]. That included as in my case, sitting at a bar and discussing methods of using a computer or how I performed certain tasks using a computer!

But... I am STILL happy to live in Thailand and STILL I chose it over my native country (...which is where most Thais want to go and live!)!

On Pattaya People TV news this week, one item related to a 42 year old English guy with a Thai GF.

The Thai GF owns a bar. He was arrested by Immigration (the news item said they were tipped off?), for working in the LOS without a work permit.

It appears the activvity he was engaged in was simply talking to some business associates and had just a tourist visa.

He was not serving or doing anything 'obvious' that constituted work.

Hardly a crackdown, but with all the changes going on at the moment, it made me think a bit, why was this guy targetted.

To be fair I dont watch the news every night so maybe this is normal?

Hopefully a one off.

edit: Hublet just read your post - perhaps this in not a one off ater all?

Edited October 28, 2006 by dsfbrit

[qualtrough]

35. Hawking of goods.

I am in the gemstone business in the States, recently married to a lovely Thai woman on my last trip there. I am moving to BKK next month to stay with her and run my business from there. I have access to and am looking to sell the rarest gemstone on earth to Thai dealers. This gem is only found in the state where I currently live. Am I to be deported for "hawking of goods"? Quite likely a crash course in gemology is coming for the wife!!

Let me guess! Your are living in MN and the gem is Thompsonite?

[Estrada]

Labor constitutes getting paid for work, right? So it would only justify as manual labor if you got paid. (In reference to tsunami & cigarettes).

The only thing affecting me on the list is #28, but I already knew that.

To make matters worse, the Thai exchanges don't have American ADRs, so I actually need to be in Thailand to invest in the country... YET, I can't invest in the country because I'm not a Thai.

Not correct, it is also not allowed to work for free....Unpaid work is considered work! There were problems during the Tsunami aftermath, trying to arrest foreigners helping without a work permit. Not that they would have got one, except for Forensic Scientists. In the end the Thai Authorities backed down and turned a blind eye...... T.I.T.

[john b good]

It should be remembered that the list is an "annexure" and as such is not an exhaustive list of prohibited occupational activities.

Two others that immediately spring to mind are as a security guard and also as a tour guide.

Edited October 28, 2006 by john b good

[ThaiPauly]

Number 5 has changed.

it would appear that previously you could not drive anything that did not have an engine.

Now you cannot drive a car.! So if you had a car rental company you cannot drive it to pick up a client from the airport, or collect the car from the customer.

As previously said..you also cannot drive a speedboat or dive boat..

Please feel free to contardict me if I am incorrect.

[keekwai]

5. Driving motor vehicles or vehicles which do not use machinery or mechanical devices, except piloting aircraft internationally.

As far as I know .. the "wheel" is a mechanical device. Anything from a unicycle to a samlor uses wheels. Can anyone name a "vehicle" that does NOT use a mechanical device? All I can think of would be a free floating raft .. with no "barge pole" to push it. (no canoes or rowboats either .. the "oars or paddles" are mechanical)

Maybe a toboggan? ... not in LOS!

[Estrada]

Is there anything major here?

I have a feeling it is mostly – perhaps entirely – a new, more accurate English translation of the same original Thai text, more accurate in the eyes of whoever had to decide on it.

---------------

Maestro

What do you mean "more accurate" the change seems to be from REAL ENGLISH to the language the Americans Speak. Viz: "Manual work" becomes "Labor Work". "Z"s appearing where there should by "S"s, etc.

[DFCarlson]

Hi,

I wonder why massage and prostitution are not included in that list. Are they allowed or

do they fall under one of the listed categories.

If not there is still hope for some of us eh?

Bahtbox

1) Prostitution is illegal and has been for a long time, this of course is the supreme example of selective enforcement.

2) With respect to this "new" list and a lot of other things in LOS that we all complain about, we are always examining and re-evaluating our reasons for being here. Is Thailand still the best option for work? retirement? vacationing? or anything else?

Of course each one has to make his own decision, but I don't think that this particular "change" is significant on the surface. If this is a prelude to a greater depth of enforcement, then see 2) above.

Hey, we all know, TIT!

[kmart]

Does that mean that a foreigner can never be an accountant or auditor in Thailand? So what about the people who are in this profession currently.

Can be a rather dangerous occupation here. The last notable auditor I heard about was a guy called Michael Walmsley who was shot dead for being too good at his job.