When the surliness begins — what to do?

[PT4]

Thai people work best in groups or pairs where they can talk and jolly each other on. Work is more fun that way. Once an employee gets it in their minds that their job is not 'fun' anymore, they fast loose motivation.

​

​Yes!

Thank you, "Stevemercer". Those are very important points specific to Thais: requirement for fun and working with others. I completely overlooked both of those. Could go a long way toward solving this problem in a "Thai way".

​

So, now I must think how to do this. Hmmm ...

The mail comes in every morning about 11:00. Might send her down to the lobby to pick up the mail, and, on the way, she can have a chat with the receptionist and the security guard and the building maid in the lobby.

​

​Also, a few times, I've sent her on a motorcycle to buy something at TOPS. It's nothing exciting, but it is some variety in the work. Could send her out more often.

​

​What are other ways to add the kind of motivation that "Stevemercer" explained above?

​

[robertson468]

I have lived in Thailand more than 10 years and visited here since 1967, I have never encountered an irritable or lazy Thai; they are always smiling and pleasant with the utmost courtesy and efficiency.

Well done Sir, great to see a positive comment. I have lived on Koh Samui for going on `11 years. Because the Island is principally a leisure industry it is quite hard to get domestic staff, unless you are happy with the "romany Myanmar type" whom are here today and gone tomorrow. However, having said that we finally got a wonderful, kind, hardworking, honest housekeeper, who loves our three dogs and has a brilliant sense of humour to boot. She will even "baby sit" the dogs to allow us to go off on holiday and we can set her rental houses to clean with a programme when we are away. We pay her a little above the average and give her breakfast and lunch, and my Wife (who is also Thai and therein might lie the solution?) will happily cook her food from time to time to take home to her Family. But whilst we are without doubt blessed to have this Lady work for us, I also have many long term Thai Friends, who are very social, great fun and if we needed anything would be there in a flash for us. Also contrary to what you often read about Thai Parents, we have brilliant Parents. The Old man has a face like a sour grape, but that apart, he comes out and plays bowls with us and comes to the Restaurants. Recently we toured Isaan and he insisted in paying more than the share for him and Mum. Last year he built a house next to ours, which initially I was not very happy about because it was so close to our house, but to my surprise (and latterly shame for complaining to my Wife), he presented the house to us and said, go rent it out with your other houses and make more money for happy life! I am sure there are many others on the Forum who have positive stories - c'mon peeps, lets hear them!

[PT4]

( ( ( My little thread here is getting much too popular: 98 users reading this topic right now! I expect the trolls will start crawling out from under their rocks soon. Usually starts on page 3 of the popular threads.) ) )

Edited March 16, 2016 by PT4

[sauvagecheri]

Same with "Girl friends"and many Thai wives...after a while thet get "Surly" lol...

Not just Thais either...I think it is an Asian thing.

I have a Burmese girl friend...after two years I noticed similar things happening with her too...

[DrTuner]

​What are other ways to add the kind of motivation that "Stevemercer" explained above?

​

Play morlam from stereos while she works. My MIL's efficiency goes up about 500%.

[HerbalEd]

I cannot speak highly enough about the Thai manager or owner where I live. I have had a few accidents of late due to a stuffed leg. He takes care of everything. Checks I have beer, water, smokes and something to eat. Even trust him with my credit card. A farang teacher would kill you for knowing what its worth!

Funniest thing is I don't speak Thai and he doesn't speak English. It's all mimed and use of dictionary with jokes.

Only advise is make more sanuk and say thankyou a lot.

I would have loved to have this bloke and his family working for me in Aus. Attention to detail and honesty is impeccable

You're lucky to find your Thai friend, but you must still be careful. Oftentimes people's situation changes and, thus, they do too ... e.g., an evil friend whispering in his ear; him having deep debt from gambling or whatever. I've seen it happen, so don't assume anything.

[Global Guy]

My humble opinion is that Thais attitudes in general in customer service related areas have gotten a lot worse over the last 15 years. We used to joke, in a flattering way, how sweet it was that the girls in the 7-11s would give a soft "Sawadee kaaaaaaaaa" when you walked in. Now, forget it. I'd say that is about 90% gone. I still say thank you to them when I buy something and 90% ignore me anyway.

I should take pics of how many times I've tried to get questions answered in a store and the girls were either talking on their smartphones or typing away and would give you a death stare if you interupt them to do their job.

Now, I just have my gf with me when I need anything unless I know for sure what I need. But if I'm not sure if the store has it, unless I can get a pic of it on my phone to show them, I go with my gf.

A friend of mine I recently visited, and he asked me if I still spoke some Thai and other related cultural assimilation things. I told him that now, unlike before, I avoid Thais as much as possible. I forgot most of what I knew to speak because the people I need to talk to all speak English, including my gf. I used to find it was much better when I spoke Thai to Thai people, they would treat me better 10-15 years ago. Now, I don't see that much of a difference so I gave up using it anymore.

Yes, this is Thailand and the country is changing a lot. Nothing I do will change that, so I have to either be pissed off that everywhere I go I encounter lazy, uninterested staff or I can not be pissed off, expect them to be this way, and when I encounter a nice, hard working person (there are some still out there), I celebrate the little victory and thank them in Thai and English. I still smile at the lazy rude ones anyway. But if they are on their smartphone, I go to another store.

My point is this is happening more now than 15 years ago. There are tons of exceptions, of course, with any generalization over such a large sample size. I will say that these negatives are way more prominent in the big cities that have been influenced more by the West. Bangkok, for example, reminds me of Los Angeles now. Very status and materialstically oriented more so now. I never thought I would want to live anywhere else but BKK, but now I avoid it at all costs.

In summary, since we cannot control what other people do, we might as well control how we react. You almost have to develop a teflon attitude and let it all bounce off you and be happy you aren't the lazy, miserable person in their shoes.

Sorry if this comes off negativelly, but since it was brought up.......

[PT4]

​

Thais attitudes in general in customer service related areas have gotten a lot worse over the last 15 years.

​

​Many here agree with you. Me, too.

now, unlike before, I avoid Thais as much as possible.

​

Sad to say this, but I am starting to do that, too.

​

​Thank you, "Global," for posting your observations about this.

[whiterussian]

You have to put Thai soap operas on TV in the background. Can be muted.
Up here in CM, I can't remember the last time I met a sullen employee in a shop, bar... wherever. Even if they don't smile there's usually a nod or a wai... It's easy to forget the horrible service of farangland... got a shock when I rang a business in the UK and got a receptionist snapping at me... time is money etc.

Edited March 16, 2016 by whiterussian

[gandalf12]

Service has gone down over the years but I have not experienced anything like many of the people here seem o experience. I have said it before and will again, maybe it is your attitude that comes over to them. I am not saying anyone is nasty but it is more about perception.

[PT4]

put Thai soap operas on TV in the background. Can be muted.

​

​There's a good idea. Would work for many, surely, but I don't have a television. (I refuse to have a TV, even if that's what it would take to keep a maid content in her work.)

Edited March 16, 2016 by PT4

[mulder12345]

Jeddah Jo, on 15 Mar 2016 - 14:35, said:

Was sat next to a particularly moody looking girl once and joked with her that a smile cost nothing. She told me to f&&k off. Guess she was having a bad day...

I would have done same. Why do some people think you have to have a big goofy smile on your face 24/7?

[Kayahammer]

What would your attitude be having to clean for a comparatively rich foreigner every day?

[WitawatWatawit]

I have lived in Thailand more than 10 years and visited here since 1967, I have never encountered an irritable or lazy Thai; they are always smiling and pleasant with the utmost courtesy and efficiency.

Well done Sir, great to see a positive comment. I have lived on Koh Samui for going on `11 years. Because the Island is principally a leisure industry it is quite hard to get domestic staff, unless you are happy with the "romany Myanmar type" whom are here today and gone tomorrow. However, having said that we finally got a wonderful, kind, hardworking, honest housekeeper, who loves our three dogs and has a brilliant sense of humour to boot. She will even "baby sit" the dogs to allow us to go off on holiday and we can set her rental houses to clean with a programme when we are away. We pay her a little above the average and give her breakfast and lunch, and my Wife (who is also Thai and therein might lie the solution?) will happily cook her food from time to time to take home to her Family. But whilst we are without doubt blessed to have this Lady work for us, I also have many long term Thai Friends, who are very social, great fun and if we needed anything would be there in a flash for us. Also contrary to what you often read about Thai Parents, we have brilliant Parents. The Old man has a face like a sour grape, but that apart, he comes out and plays bowls with us and comes to the Restaurants. Recently we toured Isaan and he insisted in paying more than the share for him and Mum. Last year he built a house next to ours, which initially I was not very happy about because it was so close to our house, but to my surprise (and latterly shame for complaining to my Wife), he presented the house to us and said, go rent it out with your other houses and make more money for happy life! I am sure there are many others on the Forum who have positive stories - c'mon peeps, lets hear them!

No, let's not hear them. Don't hijack the thread. This is an important issue that needs to be discussed - not that we can do anything about it, of course .

So many relevant points - Global Guy is on the money - smotherb must live in some kind of rarefied atmosphere, because not a chance in Hades is everything so perfect in this country, and I've been observing Thai attitudes for 26 years..

The point that Thais need interaction with other Thais as they work is a good one, although not always correct as I have had maids who worked well on their own, especially when given a little sense of proprietorship of the house (their own cups, bowls etc, sauces, hand towels, giving them a feeling that they "belong"). I don't agree about the farang wealth aspect so much, because Thais generally have a sense of their own position and status in Thai society - they want what you have, but are not always resentful towards you. A c'est la vie attitude.

Here's one thought on the sullenness. Perhaps it's just that many would like to understand you more, but feel hampered by social mores in asking you questions (don't forget, Thais are discouraged from the day they are born from asking questions of people they regard as their superiors). Conversely, perhaps they feel frustrated that you don't ask them more questions about their life. Though language can be a barrier, it's often overcome somewhat with a little effort and persistence, a dictionary and an iPad .

Like others, I'm getting a little tired of some people's attitudes (note: "some"). I used to ignore the unfriendly types, but it seems of late there are so many of them that often it's difficult to go out anywhere and find just one person who is one of the old-style delightful Thais that we used to know and love.

[peterb17]

I pay my maids (yes, a pair) MUCH more than THB100 per hour.

They NEVER complain or become sullen......

You're Welcome!!

Totally agree- 100 baht an hour, would the OP work for that? ( and smile whilst cleaning other people's toilets? )

My cleaning lady ( I hate the word maid) gets 500 baht a hour for two hours and 500 for all the ironing. The place is immaculate and we have known her for ten years- totally lovely lady and is always included in all celebrations - birthdays etc.

A few hundred over the top is of no consequence to me- but gives a bit more every month for her family .

[laislica]

put Thai soap operas on TV in the background. Can be muted.

​

​There's a good idea. Would work for many, surely, but I don't have a television. (I refuse to have a TV, even if that's what it would take to keep a maid content in her work.)

Oh the TV!

I bought a house for my then g/f and money was a tad tight for a while.

I explained that we couldn't afford a TV right now but in a few months we would get one.

Lo and behold we went shopping to Big C with her Brother and his Wife.

We all bought loads of stuff.

They drove us to our new house and unloaded our stuff which included a TV, video player and a Sat box. The dish came with the house.

I was shocked and asked what was going on because I hadn't paid for it.

My g/f said that she borrowed money from her sister in law and would pay her back later.....

She went on to explain that unless there was a TV on, in the house, her friends would think she/we were poor!

The face saving/losing aspects of daily Thai life can't be emphasized enough IMO.

I'm glad it happened close to the start of our relationship because it forced me to sit down and have a long talk about trust in the relationships.

That what she did was dishonest and deeply disrespectful to me and if this was to continue in any way in the future, there would be no future.

It was not an easy conversation but we got it done as painlessly as possible.

We rebuilt our relationship on honesty and trust and 4 years later are still enjoying each other and life to the full.

Your observations about sending the maid out more and giving her a chance to meet and chat with other Thais is a good one.

It shows you trust her and that you have a good heart.

Some of the posts made me smile. They expected their workers to be far more diligent than, say I was when I was a working stiff!

Sitting staring out of the window really made me smile. Hell I used to love going for a shit on a working Sunday - Double Time he he!!!

Someone helping himself to the brandy - like we never pinched stationary or more from work?

Perhaps it might be helpful if you knew something about the daily life of your worker(s).

Then you would become aware of changes that might negatively affect their performance beyond acceptable levels and take appropriate special actions?

Like a random bonus in cash or kind? (personally, I'd go for kind - food to take home to her family)

Like a day off to sort some personal/family problem out?

In our dealings with Immigration, my wife usually takes a cake or something that the ladies can share - Nam Jai and they seem to appreciate it.

I actually enjoy our annual visits and we have a laugh and a bit of fun.

In Thailand it is considered bad to "think too much".

Don't overthink situations.

If there is a sudden change, why not ask if everything is OK because you think they look stressed or worried about something?

I would really appreciate it if some of the long term members who never had the problems discussed in this thread would comment on my thoughts.

Am I near the truth or way off?

Anyway, whatever happens, from the replies you have made, I guess you have learned a few pointers that may be helpful.

Great thread BTW.

[williamgeorgeallen]

dont know if there is an answer to this question. owning a business for 9 years i have employed about 20 thai staff during that time. i am on my last 2 now, both have lasted more than 4 years. i have had enough, i put in a western manager. i am not dealing with it any longer.

[Thunderbirds20]

Thai people do not think beyond tomorrow. Offer a Thai 100 baht today or 1000 baht next month and they will take the 100 now. It is obvious in how they do business. Once they have sold you something, (and ripped you off) they do not want to see you again. They do not try to make a customer into a client or a client into an advocate, ... "Rape, Pillage, Next" is the Thai business attitude

[dotpoom]

Same could be said for a lot of Thai wives.

[geisha]

We have an army of maids in my condo building and most of them are really nice , though there are two that are really surly, never a smile, and that practically scowl at you. Why, I'll never know,as I'm kind to them all, give tips for Christmas, new year etc. There are 3 office girls, two nice, one scowls ! The restaurant where I eat often is the same, two really nice waitresses, one scowls and ignores everyone. So strange. I do believe there is a jealousy problem with these unhappy workers. Worse I find are the shop girls. I don't know what they are paid, but they sleep in corners, never say hello or can I help you etc. I love to shop and encounter these unfriendly lazy employees everywhere. Then , when you pick up something you want to buy, they snatch it from you and make a beeline for the cashier !!!!!! Awful attitudes.

[nontabury]

Some people seem to be paying over the odds, and still not getting good staff. How do you think Thai employers carry on? Firstly they don't pay over the odds, they expect,in fact some demand that their staff appreciate them for providing them with employment. Secoundly if the employee does not pull their weight,they simple get fired.

[Nomad56]

I pay my maids (yes, a pair) MUCH more than THB100 per hour.

They NEVER complain or become sullen......

You're Welcome!!

I agree, I pay mine 200 per hour and no sullen attitude so far. I think maids have a rough deal because they are working all of the time, not like bar work where there can be a lot of resting between customers.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Nomad56

[ozyjon]

The minute one is hired, start looking for a replacement.

You have 6 months to do it.

[sometimewoodworker]

I pay my maids (yes, a pair) MUCH more than THB100 per hour.

They NEVER complain or become sullen......

You're Welcome!!

I agree, I pay mine 200 per hour and no sullen attitude so far. I think maids have a rough deal because they are working all of the time, not like bar work where there can be a lot of resting between customers.

They have a rough deal at about 2,000 per day because they are working all the time!!!

I am currently building and the workers are doing hard physical labor for about 10 hours a day, I don't know their wages as I don't pay them directly but you can be sure that it's nowhere near that. If it's 500 then they are highly skilled. The women are probably on about 200 per day.

[user82374298374]

Even trust him with my credit card.

Apparently, you also trust him with your ThaiVisa account, as no one in his right mind would trust his landlord with his credit card.

[humqdpf]

Always best to have a Thai supervise a Thai. This works in many other countries where you get over all the misunderstanding and cultural nonsense by getting a local to supervise a local.

You can do this by getting your wife/partner to supervise the maid. or if you live in Bangkok, you can get an agency maid. The trouble then arises if the agency or your wife/partner decides not to bother supervising the maid or defends her bad behaviour.

Yes, we would much prefer to have someone we like to do our cleaning, to become part of the family etc. But that seldom works.

Another alternative which has other difficulties to do with immigration is to hire a maid from SE Asia but who is not from Thailand. As always, you need to find the right one. In the past I had very good experiences with Lao maids (in Laos) - they did not seem to have the same touchiness about losing face. Yes the work was real slow but it would get done eventually. They were always glad to keep the job as long as possible and I always paid them slightly more than the going rate.

[The manic]

Who needs a maid? You and your wife do you own work! Once a week or month get help with specific tasks - in my case cleaning the 106 square metre condo floor. Then work with them. Pay them generously - about 500 baht minimum. This are a mixture of Proud and Humble and Not Stupid- Too many foreigners here, especially Americans, Arabs and Chinese have a colonial attitude to the Thais so for the issue people, famous for their sensitivity being used by foreigners is a double blow given the racism they experience from cradle to grave from the Chinese Thai estanbment who own them. But I ask again? Why have a maid?

[The manic]

Who needs a maid? You and your wife do you own work! Once a week or month get help with specific tasks - in my case cleaning the 106 square metre condo floor. Then work with them. Pay them generously - about 500 baht minimum. Thas are a mixture of Proud and Humble and Not Stupid- Too many foreigners here, especially Americans, Arabs and Chinese have a colonial attitude to the Thais so for the issan people, famous for their sensitivity being used by foreigners is a double blow given the racism they experience from cradle to grave from the Chinese Thai estanbment who own them. But I ask again? Why have a maid?

Edited March 16, 2016 by The manic

[PT4]

Note from the OP: Plenty of useful replies already, so I'm going to un-follow this topic now.

Thank you to those who offered practical suggestions. I will start trying some of those immediately. And, thank you, too, to those who offered comments to better define the problem. With the cultural differences we face here, a clear understanding of the problem is often the best way to arrive at a solution.

[laislica]

My maid is wonderful, had the same one for 4 years and the next 4 look good too.

She cooks, cleans, does the laundry, takes care of the garden, supervises local workers, gets the aircon serviced, makes sure I'm never bored, organises holidays and outings for me - everything.

She is a diligent worker taking care of everything as if it were her own, good companion and best friend.

I pay her about 42b per hour plus traveling expenses and she is very happy with that.

We even sleep together, but then, what wife wouldn't?

I'd love to help with the chores but as a retiree a WP is not permitted!

It's a hard life but I soon got adjusted to it.

Apparently I am a really hansum man and all her friends are jealous and want her to find another Farang as good as me for them.

However, she knows that she was lucky and got probably, the last goodun. As indeed, did I.

So there OP, another possibility LOL