Muslims

[Goat Roper]

A PILOT EDITORIAL-- "YOU WORRY ME."

************************************************************************

I've been trying to say this since 9-11.

I guess I will be labeled as a bigoted American.

By: American Airlines Pilot - Captain John Maniscalco

************************************************************************

"You worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the

streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still

blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But

you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you

because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to

be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our

friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their

grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of

their attacks.

On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my

country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally

stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them

into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise

grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless

public servants, and children's mothers.

So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to

be

consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the

soul

of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying

to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must

know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and

the

Arab-Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our

parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR

constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those

very

same good neighbors and children?

The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my

responsibility

to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of it's

religions, with ALL of it's different citizens, with all of it's faults.

It

is time for every Arab-Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know

whether

or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to it's flag? Do you

proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in

your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation? That He will

protect and prosper it?

Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your "Jihad's"?

Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom

that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who

gave

their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by

paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your

commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at

this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are

taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of

America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the

innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. And no more

benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry

about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more

sympathy...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America -

our great country -- at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets.

I

want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America." I want to see young

Arab-Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of

money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this

nation as a whole.

The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding

the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim

communities.

You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now!

But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead

I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter.

You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security

guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed

for protection from reprisals.

The very few Arab-Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the

media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with

making sure that the United States prove who was responsible before taking

action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims

from

violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they

did

with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein,

Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance

and peace and love for all people then I want chapter and verse from the

Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good

is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your

"leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and

intolerance.

It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if large numbers of the

world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere

to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated

to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a

foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are

recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members defended

Johnny Cochran and O. J. Simpson after the latter butchered his wife and

murdered an innocent friend. A form whose members (some as young as five

years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year,

marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our

presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A

form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms

against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A

form whose rules are so twisted, that their

traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security

checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly

show

their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore?

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with

dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us

because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in

the entire middle-east? And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then

why in the world are you even here?

Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace

and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave. I

want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like

rats

and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family

back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE!

We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality,

your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the

attacks

of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is

so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the

world.

I want to know where every Arab-Muslim in this country stands and I

think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to

demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and

sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you

and

your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my

brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no

gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to YOU, to

show ME, where YOU stand."

"Until then ... you worry me." ""

Confirmed @ www.truthorfiction.com

[chao choo]

What scares U.S. the most?

by Abid Ullah Jan

Email: [email protected]

Despite the immense powers at its disposal, who or what scares America? The answer to this question has far-reaching implications for strategy, public diplomacy, and foreign and domestic policy of all nations. The answer is so obvious; but our denial makes it go up in smoke before our eyes.

The answer lies in the basic message of an official statement from Paul Bremer in Baghdad who declared that US will “veto Islamic law in Iraq.”[1]

The answer lies in the New York Times editorials. Earlier it called “not invoking Shari´ah” in Afghan constitution as ““promising aspirations,” and its reference to the Qur´an as “the troubling aspect.” [2]

What hurts the US? Two main culprits have emerged from global discourse since Sept. 11: terrorism and Islam. Some say the US is at war with terrorism. Others believe it is Islam. The truth, more subtle, lies between the two — it is application of the essence of Islam.

Daniel Pipes is one hundred per cent right when he says war on terrorism makes no sense. He is right when he says the establishment in the US pretends that the enemy is terrorism “because it finesses some delicate questions about Islam, thereby making it easier to build an international coalition or minimize domestic repercussions.”

It is however getting hard by the day to hide the real objectives of this war. The American dilemma is that Islam as a way of life cannot be defeated with missiles and bombs. Professing Islam is no problem at all. It is practicing Islam that threatens and is gradually made illegal.

So, the war is waged on those who want to live by Islam — Muslims, who live, in Daniel Pipes words, “with a specific set of beliefs.” Thomas Friedman considers them Muslim with specific ideas which should be defeated with a “war on ideas.”

In Daniel Pipes´s view, “the Western "street" prefers to see the problem lying with the Islamic religion.” Accordingly, “Muslims have been the leading enemy of Christians for more than a millennium, remain so now and will long continue to fill this role.”[3] Such pronouncements led to a strategic shift in the US approach. War on Islam was for nearly two millennia a European phenomenon; now it is basically an American one.

The establishment in Washington, however, is not naïve to publicly espouse Daniel Pipes´s description of the American “street.” The reasons:

a) A public declaration of a war on Islam will make them lose the military heads and their militantly secular culture in places like Turkey, Pakistan and Algeria;

It is impossible to convert 1.3 billion Muslim from Islam;

c) The US cannot quarantine all the Muslims living in the West, and

d) It can never win the clash with Islamic civilization, which many Americans now firmly believe is underway.

Fingering Islam directly, in short, neither explains the problem with Washington nor offers a solution. So, finger what undermines the status quo of the elite that rules the world. Target the alternative to the twisted democracy and laws of the global elite, which in fact threaten the entire humanity.

Thus, allies in the war on Islam embraced a third way of approaching the “problem,” which satisfies all these requirements.

That approach calls for publicly declaring that Islam itself is not the issue. At the same time, it requires the Western warriors to: a) thwart implementation of Islam and demonize development of an alternative model by delegitimizing it as “political Islam,” and to isolate Muslims who resist surrendering to the laws of global elite and refuse compromising the basic principles of the Qur´an and Sunnah.

The war on Islam can easily be won through labeling the essence of Islam the “political, extremist variant” and call the watered down, impracticable version as “moderate” and “liberal” Islam. “Followers of such a watered down version of Islam are hardly distinguishable from followers of other ideologies. Liberal Islam” is presented and advocated as the true Islam. In fact, it does not believe Shari´ah is any more implementable in modern world. It is anti-Jihad, anti-Hadith and anti-many basic principles of the Qur´an.

The reason for promoting such versions of Islam is obvious. For example, it takes out the concept of Jihad and all resistance to occupation in Afghanistan, Iraq, or Palestine becomes terrorism. Take out Shari´ah and some basic principles of the Qur´an and Sunnah and the way of life and values advocated by Thomas Friedman suddenly become all too permissible. What else for him could be winning the war of ideas?

Allah orders Muslims to live by his laws otherwise they will be disbelievers, oppressors and wicked in His sight (Qur´an, 5:44 - 47). Paul Bremer tells them, “It can´t be law until I sign it."

Elevating themselves to this godly status is the result of an effective strategy: weaken the Muslim faith by keeping them away from the Qur´an. Rewrite their constitutions in which living by Shari´ah should be declared Haram (forbidden) by the respective chief occupiers of the land. Daniel Pipes suggests: “Fight it militarily, diplomatically, legally, intellectually and religiously. Fight it in Afghanistan, in Saudi Arabia, in the United States— in fact, everywhere.”

Pipes believes “moderate” Muslims as “key allies in this fight.” Yes, they are. According to the New York Times´ victorious tone, (editorial, Nov. 14, 2003) there is no reference to Shari´ah in Afghanistan constitution and Bremer has threatened that there would be no place for it in Iraq. “Moderates” have paved the way for it. “Moderates” accept it this way. Muslims did not.

Muslims clinging to their faith and Qur´an are labeled as “evil.” In Pipes´s view, “such euphemisms in wartime can be beneficial,” because it “shied away [the US government] from specifics lest they tie its hands.”

The beauty of Daniel Pipes write ups is that he does not twist words like Bush or Friedman. In this case he clearly says that by labeling the staunch believers of Islam as "evildoers" without “mentioning any names beyond Osama bin Laden” offers “maximum flexibility.”[4]

As a result, to neutralize what scares America the most — the application of Islam; the essence of Qur´an and Sunnah— Shari´ah has been reduced to a curse. It has no place in the modern world. The Qur´an is presented as a hard to interpret moral guide. No one´s interpretation of the Qur´an is valid, except the “moderates.”

On the other hand practicing Muslims are weak and intimidated these days, but they are crucial if the Muslim world has to help the West emerge from the current bout of radicalism and the Muslim world from the depth of humiliation.

Once the Americans understand the real objectives of their rulers behind the on going war, they can emerge as a formidable force. The going will remain tough unless besides Muslims, the Americans also identify proponents of this needless war and find the strength forthrightly to address the problem of American fear from the Islam´s potential to provide a far better alternative to the twisted democracy and descript secular way of life. This is what scares masters of international terror and control the most.

February 17, 2004

Abid Ullah Jan´s latest book, The End of Democracy, has just been released in Canada.

Notes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] “U.S. May Veto Islamic Law in Iraq: Top U.S. Administrator in Iraq, Touting Women´s Rights, Threatens Veto of Islamic Law Measure,” The Associated Press, February 16, 2003.

[2] Editorial, November 14, 2003

[3] Daniel Pipes, “Aim the War on Terror at Militant Islam,” Los Angeles Times, January 6, 2002

[4] Daniel Pipes, “Who Is the Enemy?” Commentary, January 2002. http://www.danielpipes.org/article/103

[chao choo]

A take on Islam steers US into the abyss

by Abid Ullah Jan

Email: [email protected]

The 88-years old author of 20 books on Islam, Bernard Lewis, is a classic example of how intellectual horror of such individuals lead to physical horror of the kind we witness around the world today.

Bernard Lewis often proudly tells his audience about an insignificant encounter he once had in Jordan.

The insignificant encounter, however, becomes significant when Western public´s limited understanding of Islam is viewed in the context of their lead opinion-maker´s convoluted view about Muslims and Islam.

Lewis says one of his Arab friends argued: “We have time, we can wait. We got rid of the Crusaders. We got rid of the Turks. We´ll get rid of the Jews.”

Hearing this claim," Mr. Lewis says, he shot back, "Excuse me, but you´ve got your history wrong. The Turks got rid of the Crusaders. The British got rid of the Turks. The Jews got rid of the British. I wonder who is coming here next."

Turks and Arabs are irrelevant. What is undeniable is that Muslims got rid of the crusades. Period. On the other hand, the British not only got rid of Turks but also helped the whole Europe got rid of the centuries old Jewish problem.[1]

There is no need for Mr. Lewis to wonder who is coming next to replace America in the Middle East. It is the Zionists who did not get rid of British but will definitely get rid of America. Muslims will then get rid of them to prove the Jordanian friend of Mr. Lewis right in his observation.

Lewis and company use such sarcasm to underscore a serious point. Most Islamic countries have failed miserably at “modernizing” their societies, they contend, beckoning outsiders – this time, Americans – to intervene.

The Zionist inspired Lewis-doctrine of calling for a U.S. military invasion to reform Muslims has helped define the bloodiest shift in U.S. foreign policy in 50 years. The occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan is the initial phase of this doctrine in operation. It means the Zionists are more than half way through their agenda of replacing the US as a Ruling State.

In the last decade of 20th century, the Zionists changed quick gears to take the US out of its doctrine-of-containment mode. Threat from Islam under many different labels replaced Moscow as the global foe. And now America, having replaced British as the Ruling State and outlasted the Soviets to become the sole superpower, no longer seeks to contain but to confront, defeat and transform the world of Islam.

The US failure in remolding Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the Mideast is the writing on the wall. In the coming years, the US will remain bold and assertive as long as it believes it can transform lives and culture of a people through force. Persistent losses and embarrassing failure of the baseless theories will gradually make the US inward, defensive, cut off and replaced by Israel in the end.

We are in the initial phase of moving towards this end. According to Peter Waldman of Wall Street Journal, “as mentor and informal adviser to some top U.S. officials, Mr. Lewis has helped coax the White House to shed decades of thinking about Arab regimes and the use of military power.”[2]

Lewis Doctrine of transforming a way of life of more than one billion people in the name of fostering democracy seems wise and imperative in his books alone. In reality, it is the beginning of re-colonisation of the Muslim world and the fall of the US power on the pattern of its predecessor, the United Kingdom.

It also sounds nice that the US has adopted this course only to be able to blunt terrorism and stabilize the Middle East. Instead, it has already sparked a much wider resistance — called terrorism. At an Al-Jazeera poll, 56 percent respondents clicked a resounding “no” to the question: “Should Arab countries yield to US reform plans?”[3]

Instead of engaging in honest soul-searching and identifying the enemies within, the US administration was led to holding Muslims responsible for 9/11 soon after the attacks occurred. Muslims´ “misunderstanding” of the US and Islamic threat was the answer to every question. “The only question left unanswered was how to frame the enemy,” says David Frum, who was a speechwriter for President Bush.[4]

At this critical juncture, Lewis told White House staffers, military aides and staff members of the National Security Council in a special meeting that anti-Americanism stemmed from Muslims´ “own inadequacies, not America´s.” Frum also recalls Lewis´s private meeting with national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice and Dick Cheney.

The fallacy of this doctrine is not limited only to closing eyes to the US injustice, failures and the enemies within. It leads a long way to the dangerous miscalculation that even the most aggressive enemy wouldn´t risk its own demise by provoking war with a powerful U.S. This doctrine blinds the Americans to the reality that the administration´s Zionists sponsored advisors are, in fact, the grave diggers for the seemingly invincible U.S. With advisors like these, the US needs no enemies.

The fallacy deepens with the fact that such insane doctrines envision not a clash of interests or even ideology, but of cultures, values and ways of life. The reason: surpassing the already well under-control-U.S. is not a problem for the Zionists. Doing the same to the divided, humiliated and mostly occupied Muslim world is a problem as long as its values, principles and identity is not substantially diluted.

As a result, exploiting weaknesses of the power wielders in Washington, the spokespersons for Zionists put only two choices before them: "Get tough or get out" of the Muslim world, knowing that the super ego of the the super tyrants would not let them admit their crimes and do the necessary course correction.

Mentality of these promoters of war can be judged from the fact that besides serving as intelligence officer for the British Empire, Bernard Lewis inherited some historic grudges before becoming a pawn in the grand Zionist game. He strongly believes that, notwithstanding the US excesses over the last century, Muslims hate the West only because the Ottomans failed for the second time to sack Christian Vienna in 1683.

Mr. Lewis is also the father of the “clash of civilisation” theory which he described in a 1990 essay called "The Roots of Muslim Rage." According to Lewis, Muslims do not feel cheated due to undeniable realities, such as the US out-right support to Israeli aggression, occupation and the worst kind of human rights violations. All Muslims are portrayed to hate the West as a whole for 300 years only because the Christian civilization has overshadowed them militarily, economically and culturally.[5] So, there is no need for a policy change to reverse or at least bring an end to the continuing U.S. hypocrisy, double standards and injustice.

Friedman, Pipes, Perle and many hypocrites among Muslims in the name of “moderates”[6] regurgitate the same convoluted theory that Muslims hate US because they are “not rich, not strong and not successful.”

The reality is that Christians and Muslims make only 55 per cent of the world population. [7] Even not all the 33 percent Christians are rich, strong and successful. If poverty, weakness and failure are the criteria for hating the US, more than 90 per cent of the world population is thus supposed to hate the US. The reason is clear. Far less than 10 per cent of the world population belongs to the corporate world of super tyrants and Zionist political-entrepreneurs.

What hurts members of this league of hypocrites, in Bernard Lewis words, is their concern: why do they [Muslims] neither fear nor respect us?" Only the most naïve would believe Lewis´s logic that instilling respect or at least fear through force is essential for America´s security.

According to Wall Street Journal, only eight days after the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. Lewis and his friend, Ahmad Chalabi argued for a military takeover of Iraq to avert still-worse terrorism in the future. [8]

This fact alone is enough to show the years of planning, the scope of links, and creation of the most suitable moments for proposing the core ideas in this great Zionist game. Imagine, the Americans are still busy counting their dead and they have yet to focus on the real culprits of the 9/11, when Lewis — who is “close to government circles in Israel” (according to the Wall Street Journal) — goes to underline the need for Iraq´s occupation to their leader. Iraq is a country that has yet to be credibly linked with 9/11.

It shows that Bernard Lewis has not helped the world understand the complexity of the world of Islam. As a confidant of successive Israeli prime ministers, including Ariel Sharon, he simply worked as a tool for justifying Israeli crimes and occupations by and for Israel.

Mr. Wolfowitz has now signalled that the US administration accepted Mr. Lewis´s prescription for the Muslim world of “losers, helpless and enraged.” Ilan Pappe of Haifa University rightly argued that Mr. Lewis´s view that political cultures can be remade through force contributed to Israel´s decision to invade Lebanon in 1982.

It took Israel 18 years to abandon that strategy. Unfortunately, the US does not have that luxury at its disposal. Operating under the same assumption on a much wider scale, the US will fail far miserably than Israel in Lebanon.

As the US rose to touch the limits of its power, hundreds of thousands lost their lives as a result of its illegal sanctions and wars for transforming them in its own image. Millions more are destined to suffer as a result of the impending great fall of the final Titan.

The British got rid of the Turks and Jews. The US replaced the British. Lewis wonders who is coming next. The pragmatics, however, wonder if Lewis would live enough to see the Zionists, whom he served for so long, replace the arrogant American administrators, whom he pushed into digging America´s grave in the Middle East.

[Guest chingy]

one question i like to know, what kind of religious that tell their people to kill, if you believe in heaven and he11, this one difinetly belong in he11

[Phil Conners]

Religion is opium for the people.

[Pink Mist]

Religion is opium for the people.

quote your sources

[Boon Mee]

Joseph Stalin/Carl Marx

[Basher]

Surely this should be in the 'Bare' Pit where it belongs?

Bash

[meemiathai]

I agree with the message from Captain John Maniscalco 100%!

What are your(YOU MUSLIMS) grievances?

Give us the facts that justify your acts! Any Muslims on this forum?

Please enlighten me how you have been mistreated.

Until then, I still hate YOU!

[Bluecat]

Any Muslims on this forum?

Please enlighten me how you have been mistreated.

Until then, I still hate YOU!

George, Dr., day off today?

[sonthaya]

I believe that religion is the root of all evil

[meemiathai]

Any Muslims on this forum?

Please enlighten me how you have been mistreated.

Until then, I still hate YOU!

George, Dr., day off today?

Well BC,

I am on duty today!

[Basher]

I believe Vegimite is the root of all evil

Bash

[chonabot]

I am studying world religion as part of my OU degree in the UK , it's very interesting, covering Christianity;Islam;Judaism;Hinduism;Sihkism and Buddism.

As you will know religion IS life for Musilms and perhaps the majority of Hindu's in a way that people outside of those religions could not identify with, apart from preachers/monks in the remainder of religions. Unfortunately , I believe that the current situation re:9/11 ; Osama ; Iraq ; etc , is far removed from any beliefs held by the majority of Muslims.

In the Uk we have a huge problem with insurgent " Muslim" extremists. They can burn our flags in the street, every week new cells are discovered.

Hamza being the main culprit IMO.

Our reaction against Islam as a whole will only help the cause of these disciples of evil. Tony Blair and George Bush seem to have no interest in sorting this problem out , arguably they have screwed things up further by invading Iraq?

Who knows.

There are troublsome times ahead , ignorance will only stoke the flames.

Hmmm I might use this as a part of my next assignment.

[Stocky]

I agree with the message from Captain John Maniscalco 100%!

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore?

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire middle-east?

Any Muslims on this forum?

Please enlighten me how you have been mistreated.

Until then, I still hate YOU!

Struth! Now this is the foundation of a rational and balanced debate

[Goat Roper]

are so quick to commit suicide?

Let's see now........................

No Jesus, No Wal-Mart, No television,

No cheerleaders, No baseball,

No football, No basketball, No hockey, No golf,

No tailgate parties, No Hooters,

No Home Depot, No pork BBQ, No hot dogs,

No burgers, No lobster,

No shellfish, or even frozen fish sticks,

No gumbo, No jambalaya, and....No beer.

Rags for clothes and towels for hats.

Constant wailing from the guy next-door

because he's sick and there are no doctors.

Constant wailing from the guy in the tower.

No chocolate chip cookies. No Christmas.

More than one wife. and....No beer.

More than one mother-in-law.

You can't shave.

Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey

cooked over burning camel dung.

The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at all times.

Someone else picks your bride and she smells just like your donkey, but, your donkey has a better disposition.

Then...they tell you that when you die it all gets better!

I mean, really, is there a mystery here?

[chonabot]

are so quick to commit suicide?

Let's see now........................

No Jesus, No Wal-Mart, No television,

No cheerleaders, No baseball,

No football, No basketball, No hockey, No golf,

No tailgate parties, No Hooters,

No Home Depot, No pork BBQ, No hot dogs,

No burgers, No lobster,

No shellfish, or even frozen fish sticks,

No gumbo, No jambalaya, and....No beer.

Rags for clothes and towels for hats.

Constant wailing from the guy next-door

because he's sick and there are no doctors.

Constant wailing from the guy in the tower.

No chocolate chip cookies. No Christmas.

More than one wife. and....No beer.

More than one mother-in-law.

You can't shave.

Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey

cooked over burning camel dung.

The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at all times.

Someone else picks your bride and she smells just like your donkey, but, your donkey has a better disposition.

Then...they tell you that when you die it all gets better!

I mean, really, is there a mystery here?

Can I borrow that for my next paper? Obviously I'll quote you as a source.

Seriously though you may be joking or not , but some good points are made.

A life without any of these so called luxury's can only be made better by finishing it altogether.

Btw there are some Muslim's on my course , they tend to go quiet when anyone brings 9/11 up as a debate.

[Goat Roper]

Can I borry that for my next paper? Obviously I'll quote you as a source.

By all means be my guest.

[Stocky]

No Jesus, No Wal-Mart, No television,

No cheerleaders, No baseball,

No football, No basketball, No hockey, No golf,

No tailgate parties, No Hooters,

No Home Depot, No pork BBQ, No hot dogs,

No burgers, No lobster,

No shellfish, or even frozen fish sticks,

No gumbo, No jambalaya

No chocolate chip cookies. No Christmas

I've no problem with that, I'll keep the beer though....

[Yohan]

I wonder, what this thread has to do with Thailand.....

Maybe we could talk about Thai Muslim....

Just a discussion about religion is endless and without any result....

Johann

[tutsiwarrior]

this is not an item for rational discussion so take it out to the parking lot where it belongs (the Bear Pit?)

[plachon]

are so quick to commit suicide?

Let's see now........................

No Jesus, No Wal-Mart, No television,

No cheerleaders, No baseball,

No football, No basketball, No hockey, No golf,

No tailgate parties, No Hooters,

No Home Depot, No pork BBQ, No hot dogs,

No burgers, No lobster,

No shellfish, or even frozen fish sticks,

No gumbo, No jambalaya, and....No beer.

Rags for clothes and towels for hats.

Constant wailing from the guy next-door

because he's sick and there are no doctors.

Constant wailing from the guy in the tower.

No chocolate chip cookies. No Christmas.

More than one wife. and....No beer.

More than one mother-in-law.

You can't shave.

Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey

cooked over burning camel dung.

The women have to wear baggy dresses and veils at all times.

Someone else picks your bride and she smells just like your donkey, but, your donkey has a better disposition.

Then...they tell you that when you die it all gets better!

I mean, really, is there a mystery here?

Why do Americans worry me so much? Perhaps because there's so many as pig-ignorant as this Goatroper perchance? Nah, only 7 % having passports and allowing GWB to lead them are reasons enough.

PS Where's the Bear Pit got to? Reinstate soon before G-P and the Gent get wind of this post!

[Boon Mee]

The Bear Pit is now a seperate entity. Go on over to www.bearpit.net for a good time!

[tutsiwarrior]

plachon...I hear you and I'm US born and raised...

Take this item elswhere or shut it down...

[pnustedt]

I have a few muslim friends - and although I accept many have different principles from me - in particular diet, use of alcohol, religious commitment - I do have to reluctantly admit that I do not find them as narrow minded as the thinking that seems to be coming from the West, in particular from the US.

[Goat Roper]

Hold on now, everybody slow down some, this was not meant to start internal squabbles/fights or whatever you want to name them. If friends can't disagree(we are friends in here are we not?) then something is bad wrong. I am glad we don't all have the same opinions and ideas.

[plachon]

plachon...I hear you and I'm US born and raised...

Take this item elswhere or shut it down...

Here! Here! Tutsi (and I'll make a special exemption in your case, as I ceased worrying about you as soon as I heard you appreciate a well-pulled pint of Harvey's and could distinguish between the Indian and Pakistani Prez's in an ID line up)

[tuky]

plachon...I hear you and I'm US born and raised...

Take this item elswhere or shut it down...

Or perhaps...ignore it!

The Bear Pit

[Bluecat]

Well BC,

I am on duty today!

And quite a few days after,...

Hate is nice, keep you "balanced".

But, but, there is quite a lot of reasons to hate people and religion is sure not the "best" one,...

[Goat Roper]

Well BC,

I am on duty today!

And quite a few days after,...

Hate is nice, keep you "balanced".

But, but, there is quite a lot of reasons to hate people and religion is sure not the "best" one,...

Well said Bluecat, You all hang on and maybe someone will open up a discussion about the Kiwis.