webfact Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Chinese dams blamed for exacerbating Southeast Asian droughtTRAN VAN MINH, Associated PressSTEPHEN WRIGHT, Associated PressHANOI, Vietnam (AP) — As China opened one of its six dams on the upper Mekong River last month to help parched Southeast Asian countries down river cope with a record drought, it was hailed as benevolent water diplomacy.But to critics of hydroelectric dams built on the Mekong over the concerns of governments and activists, it was the self-serving act of a country that, along with hydropower-exporting Laos, has helped worsen the region's water and environmental problems.Much of Southeast Asia is suffering its worst drought in 20 or more years. Tens of millions of people in the region are affected by the low level of the Mekong, a rice-bowl-sustaining river system that flows into Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Fresh water is running short for hundreds of thousands of people in Vietnam and Cambodia, and reduced water for irrigation has hurt agriculture, particularly rice growing in Thailand, where land under cultivation is being cut significantly this year.Vietnam estimates that 400,000 hectares (1,500 square miles) have been affected by saltwater intrusion, with some 166,000 hectares (640 square miles) rendered infertile. The affected land accounts for nearly 10 percent of the country's paddy cultivation area in the Mekong Delta, its main rice-growing region.The water level in the Tonle Sap river as it passes the royal palace in Cambodia's capital, Phnom Penh, has fallen to a 50-year low.Fingers are mainly pointed at the El Nino climate phenomenon, which produces drier and hotter-than-usual weather globally. But environmentalists and some officials say the situation is worsened by the 10 dams on the Mekong's mainstream built over the past two decades, at least partly because they reduce rainy-season flooding and trap sediments, making the downstream delta more vulnerable to seawater intrusion."I've lost all my investment. My family was left with nothing," said Thach Tai, a farmer from Ngoc Bien village in the southern Vietnamese province of Tra Vinh, as he surveyed his 2,000 square meters (half an acre) of dead, dry paddies."I don't know what to do. And there's nothing I can do to help with my rice paddies."Tai said his 70-year-old father and other elderly people in the village of more than 180 families had never witnessed such drought and salination.The current El Nino is one of the strongest climate events in the past 60 years "that is not over yet," said Kundhavi Kadiresan, assistant director-general at the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization. It is the main factor in the drought, but "dams along the Mekong can and certainly do cause some problems," she said.Vietnam says the saltwater intrusion into its southern Mekong Delta is unprecedented. In mid-March, it asked China to double the amount of water discharged from its Jinghong dam in Yunnan province. China agreed and the increased water flow is expected to continue until April 10.Pham Tuan Phan, chief executive of the Mekong River Commission, a body set up to mediate the conflicting priorities of upstream and downstream Mekong countries, called the Chinese move a "gesture of goodwill."China was embarking on unprecedented water diplomacy, declared Thailand's English-language Nation newspaper. China's Foreign Ministry said the government had decided to "overcome its own difficulties to offer emergency water flows."The Chinese move was hailed as progress because it was the first time it had notified downstream countries of its plans for the Mekong's water level. But it also underlined the power China holds over a shared life-sustaining resource and the Mekong environment overall.Ma Quang Trung, a department director at Vietnam's Agriculture Ministry, said discharges from the Jinghong dam might help reduce fresh water shortages for 575,000 Vietnamese, but are unlikely to ease the drought overall. Vietnam is so far downstream that only a small portion of the discharged water will reach it. He blames the drought on El Nino and Mekong dams.Thailand, meanwhile, has added to regional tensions over the resource by deciding to pump large volumes of Mekong water to drought-afflicted provinces.Many more dams are planned for the Mekong, including by China and landlocked Laos, which with Chinese support sees hydropower exports becoming the mainstay of its economy, one of Asia's least developed. As a member of the toothless river commission, Laos must consult Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia but does not need their approval.Laos went ahead with construction of the Xayaburi dam in 2012 over the concerns of its neighbors, who first wanted an in-depth study on what they feared would be profound effects on the Mekong, one of the world's largest inland fisheries. Existing research on dams worldwide shows they significantly diminish fishing grounds by creating barriers to breeding-cycle migrations and creating river conditions that destroy habitat and food sources.Piaporn Deetes, a campaigner in Thailand for Rivers International, an advocacy group, scoffs at the idea that the Jinghong discharge was a selfless act by China to help its neighbors. She said China gets benefits such as electricity generation, and the temporarily higher water level makes for easier navigation on its section of the river.The discharge also had disastrous consequences that were inevitable because millions who live along the Mekong and depend on it for their livelihoods were unaware water levels would suddenly rise.River bank vegetable gardens were submerged and boats and fishing equipment swept away, said Deetes. Harvests of kaipen, a freshwater weed exported to Japan that is large source of income for river communities, were destroyed."The Mekong is not a tap," she said. "It is a complex ecosystem."-- (c) Associated Press 2016-04-01
Reigntax Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 They have only just worked this out? Get used to China controlling the destiny of SE asian countries as even the self appointed governments are assisting with this control.
jamesbrock Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 The Chinese dams effect should not be overestimated, especially when it comes to the affect on Thailand's current drought. The Mekong affects Cambodia and Vietnam, yes; Thailand, not so much; however, it should be noted that only 16% of the Mekong's annual discharge comes through China. The mean annual discharge of the Mekong is approximately 475 cubic kilometres (km3). Of this amount, about 16 per cent comes from China and only 2 per cent from Myanmar. Most of the remainder comes from Lao PDR and the major left bank tributaries, particularly the tributaries that enter downstream of Vientiane-Nong Khai. It's also important to note that the Mekong only skirts Thailand's border for around 400km. The Chao Phraya watershed, which is the largest watershed in Thailand, covers approximately 35% of the nation's interior, and, as none of its tributaries extend beyond Thailand's borders, it is not affected by the flows of the Mekong.
SoFarAndNear Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Wow... looks very bad if SEA depends on China to get water
jamesbrock Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Flows aside, with the current El Nino being "one of the strongest climate events in the past 60 years" it goes without saying that China's storing of the flow—that otherwise would drain out through the complex delta systems of Vietnam and Cambodia—is most certainly exacerbating the drought conditions in those countries. Interestingly, a 2005 study by the Mekong River Commission titled "Overview of the Hydrology of the Mekong Basin" (PDF) stated that, There has been a lot of debate about the dry season hydrology of the mainstream and there is a widespread belief that there has been significant change due to upstream reservoir storage in China. Figure 4.8 shows the minimum daily discharge averaged over a sequence of 90-days in each year from 1960 to 2004 for Vientiane and Kratie. Such a “long duration” statistic can be regarded as an effective measure of dry season flow conditions from year to year. The data show that there is no evidence of any systematic change in the low-flow hydrology, either in terms of a long-term increase or decrease in dry season discharge. Of course, this finding counts for nought when the current El Nino reduces the 84% of inflow into the Mekong that doesn't come from China to record low levels. China may be hoarding the water at the moment, but did their reservoirs fill before the drought? If so, and they hadn't had dams in the first place, would all of that water had already drained out of the Mekong by now, leaving the whole reach dry? And why aren't we talking about Laos? China can open the floodgates on al their dams, but if Laos' Xayaburi dam is closed, no one else downstream would receive any water. Edited April 1, 2016 by jamesbrock
tubby johnson Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 China is boss. Thailand is a meek collaborator. Only Vietnam has the guts to fight back.
Doc46 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 So the Penny dropped after How many years?Any fool can figure out that if someone build dams or walls in a river that the water can't go Down stream,,,,China has got a few Countries by the Balls so to speak,,,, No Shit Sherlock,,,
laolover88 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Of course there are a lot of snouts in the trough to get the "rewards" from building these dams. The Japanese "assisted"in the building of the Nam Ngum Dam; the Thai Banks and The Thai construction company Ch. Karnchang are heavily involved in financing the Xayaburi Dam and all kinds of people from MEGA FIRST CORPORATION BERHAD to Australian Power and Water are chafing to get the possibly even more disastrous Don Sahong Dam which could potentially starve Cambodia. Greed, Fridges and Power are of course more important than food. One can only conclude human beings are deranged.
mrrizzla Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Well here is now province of China thanks to the new overlords. You made the bed now lie in it.
timber Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Over ten years ago it was very obvious that this was going to happen, and China had a severe water shortage at that time. Was very surprised that there wasn't a bigger cry from the SE Asia. I don't think there is any period in Chinese history that they were benevolent.
Nasrullah Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 In all fairness to everyone affected.......'damned if you do,damned if you don't'...
Thaidream Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 The Chinese are a clear and present danger to the World. They want to control all of SE Asia to protect its source of natural resources and to feed its people. In that way- a happy populace will allow the Chinese Communist Party to remain in power for eons more. Vietnam is well aware of the Chinese danger and resists intrusion into Viet internal affairs. Thailand's coziness to the Chinese government and its mass of tourists is a dangerous move that exposes Thailand to undue influence by china and a loss of its sovereignty. The Chinese do not do favors for anyone- there is always a quid pro quo- history is rife with Chinese treachery. America is in the same boat- the huge trade deficit with the Chinese is completely unsustainable and the recent UK gesture of eternal friendship to the visiting Chinese leader is pure folly.
cumgranosalum Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 The Chinese are a clear and present danger to the World. They want to control all of SE Asia to protect its source of natural resources and to feed its people. In that way- a happy populace will allow the Chinese Communist Party to remain in power for eons more. Vietnam is well aware of the Chinese danger and resists intrusion into Viet internal affairs. Thailand's coziness to the Chinese government and its mass of tourists is a dangerous move that exposes Thailand to undue influence by china and a loss of its sovereignty. The Chinese do not do favors for anyone- there is always a quid pro quo- history is rife with Chinese treachery. America is in the same boat- the huge trade deficit with the Chinese is completely unsustainable and the recent UK gesture of eternal friendship to the visiting Chinese leader is pure folly. what's this? Thailand's answer to Donald Trump...only dafter?
mrrizzla Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) The Chinese are a clear and present danger to the World. They want to control all of SE Asia to protect its source of natural resources and to feed its people. In that way- a happy populace will allow the Chinese Communist Party to remain in power for eons more. Vietnam is well aware of the Chinese danger and resists intrusion into Viet internal affairs. Thailand's coziness to the Chinese government and its mass of tourists is a dangerous move that exposes Thailand to undue influence by china and a loss of its sovereignty. The Chinese do not do favors for anyone- there is always a quid pro quo- history is rife with Chinese treachery. America is in the same boat- the huge trade deficit with the Chinese is completely unsustainable and the recent UK gesture of eternal friendship to the visiting Chinese leader is pure folly. Weren't you singing the juntas praises in another thread? It's your precious junta that are lifting their skirts to the Chinese. Edited April 1, 2016 by mrrizzla
Thaidream Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 I said the Junta is better than any prior elected government or prior military government- I did not say they were perfect by any means. Their coziness to China is simply a ruse to show the West they have other choices. I am not advocating a confrontation with china. I am advocating a firm response and not a belief that China is a long term friend. As far as being daft and a supporter of Donald Trump. I may be daft to some people and I do not support Trump but I do support Bernie Sanders because his vision of America is also my vision. Whether I am daft is open to opinion. I will let history and the future be the ultimate judge of that.
scratchy Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Off topic but relevant, large areas of rainforest in Indonesia and all around SE Asia have been decimated, my gut feeling is that this has had a major effect on climate change but this is never discussed. Shouldn't all countries in the region to working together be looking at reforestation
Stargeezr Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 The drought conditions in Thailand are not caused by the Mekong river situation. Did I remember right that water was released quite a while ago from the dams in Northern Thailand. During the year the rains did not come to refill those dams. That and the lack of rains during the cool months are causes for the present drought and water shortages. I hope that Thailand and southern parts of China and Myanmar get some rains before the monsoon season is over. I agree with scratchy that the cutting down of large rainforest areas may have more of an affect on a bit of weather in their areas ,but that would be in Indonesia and not Thailand, unless the forests in Northern Thailand are also recently gone. Good luck to the areas that are affected by this present drought. Geezer
mrrizzla Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 I said the Junta is better than any prior elected government or prior military government- I did not say they were perfect by any means. Their coziness to China is simply a ruse to show the West they have other choices. I am not advocating a confrontation with china. I am advocating a firm response and not a belief that China is a long term friend. As far as being daft and a supporter of Donald Trump. I may be daft to some people and I do not support Trump but I do support Bernie Sanders because his vision of America is also my vision. Whether I am daft is open to opinion. I will let history and the future be the ultimate judge of that. A junta supporting Sanders fan? There's an oxymoron if I've EVER heard one. You know Prayuth is far more akin to a Thai version of Trump don't you? A ultra conservative nationalist...
DeepInTheForest Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 [edited] .... I agree with scratchy that the cutting down of large rainforest areas may have more of an affect on a bit of weather in their areas ,but that would be in Indonesia and not Thailand, unless the forests in Northern Thailand are also recently gone. Good luck to the areas that are affected by this present drought. Geezer The entry in wikipedia on "Thailand deforestation" says that between 1945 and 1975 forest cover in the country declined 44 percent-- from 61 percent to 34 percent of the land area. From 1976 to 1987, forest cover declined another 28%. And from 1987 until now? I'll let you extrapolate. There is very little of the forest left in Thailand. You can travel provinces like Nan and see that the old growth is gone, replaced by stands of bamboo and eucalyptus plantations, if not bare land, that do not provide nearly the benefit of a healthy forest. Yes, tree cover affects the amount of rainfall as well as groundwater retention. (The Amazon region is a case in point. Sao Paolo is in danger of losing its water supply for similar reasons.)
anotheruser Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 The Chinese dams were probably the only ones that retained any water to help the relief efforts. Dams aren't unique to China.
jacko45k Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Get all the Chinese tourists to bring a bottle each, that should cover the shortfall.
bassman Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 Of course there are a lot of snouts in the trough to get the "rewards" from building these dams. The Japanese "assisted"in the building of the Nam Ngum Dam; the Thai Banks and The Thai construction company Ch. Karnchang are heavily involved in financing the Xayaburi Dam and all kinds of people from MEGA FIRST CORPORATION BERHAD to Australian Power and Water are chafing to get the possibly even more disastrous Don Sahong Dam which could potentially starve Cambodia. Greed, Fridges and Power are of course more important than food. One can only conclude human beings are deranged. Your right and most of the hydro electric is being exported to Thailand. The article lays a heavy hand on China (rightly so) but gives its other neighbors an easy pass. Asia, as a continent, continues all it can do to destroy its environment.
oldsailor35 Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 Does anyone save water in Thailand. I doubt if i can see a water gutter on any roof here on Samui. During the rainy season, the water just pours off the roof directly into the ground and then into the sea. Then just a few months later they are all moaning about no water ! Thais need educating regarding water conservation.
55Jay Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 Does anyone save water in Thailand. I doubt if i can see a water gutter on any roof here on Samui. During the rainy season, the water just pours off the roof directly into the ground and then into the sea. Then just a few months later they are all moaning about no water ! Thais need educating regarding water conservation. Fairly common up where I am. I keep a 2,000 and a 1,850 liter tank full of collected rain water as emergency reserve throughout dry season. They are connected to the house water pump, open a valve, take a suction. My town is virtually out of water, so I've been taking well water delivery by truck the past month. Still keep the two rain water tanks in reserve. So far so good.
bangrak Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 The dams built on Lao territory play an important role too in the 'perturbation' of the Mekong's natural flow, but the Lao authorities are not the main wrongdoers, they just arrange to get some money (not a lot) from those main wrongdoers, which are for a large part... Thai companies, like some (state) electricity generating company, several engineering companies, ...and mega construction companies. Why is there no finger pointed at these? Because they are Thai, ...powerfull and wealthy, maybe? True, we, all, consume too much electricity, caught in the nets of consumerism, but are there no other means to produce electricity in a sustainable way? There surely are, but a little bit less 'cost effective', so, here (as in many other countries) it's the greed of consortiums wanting to make as much profit as possible, not caring one setang for the consequences of their acts. The BIG question those people are not the slightest busy with is: when we will have destroyed nature, what will we put instead to make money with? ...And there will be electricity shortages, rate increases, etc. ...because there will not be enough water left in the dams, mind you, them not even thinking about farmers, fishermen, general public, ...or nature, as if those businessmen would care a bit, ...but simply to keep their sacred cashcows of hydro-electric installations running! Even during el nino months, the wind is blowing, the sun is shining, though... The crazy world we're living in, money, money, money, ...more money!
jamesbrock Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 The dams built on Lao territory play an important role too in the 'perturbation' of the Mekong's natural flow, but the Lao authorities are not the main wrongdoers, they just arrange to get some money (not a lot) from those main wrongdoers, which are for a large part... Thai companies, like some (state) electricity generating company, several engineering companies, ...and mega construction companies. Why is there no finger pointed at these? Because they are Thai, ...powerfull and wealthy, maybe? True, we, all, consume too much electricity, caught in the nets of consumerism, but are there no other means to produce electricity in a sustainable way? There surely are, but a little bit less 'cost effective', so, here (as in many other countries) it's the greed of consortiums wanting to make as much profit as possible, not caring one setang for the consequences of their acts. The BIG question those people are not the slightest busy with is: when we will have destroyed nature, what will we put instead to make money with? ...And there will be electricity shortages, rate increases, etc. ...because there will not be enough water left in the dams, mind you, them not even thinking about farmers, fishermen, general public, ...or nature, as if those businessmen would care a bit, ...but simply to keep their sacred cashcows of hydro-electric installations running! Even during el nino months, the wind is blowing, the sun is shining, though... The crazy world we're living in, money, money, money, ...more money!
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