What are the downsides of letting my US driver's license expire?

[siamike]

My recent application to vote online in the US presidential election was rejected because my California drivers license had expired.

A valid DL is not a requirement to vote; as an expat your US voting location is considered to be your last registered address before you left the states. Contact the political party you want to register under, they should be able to help you.

[craigt3365]

My recent application to vote online in the US presidential election was rejected because my California drivers license had expired.

Makes sense. You have to prove what state you are a resident of and the online systems typically match what's in the DMV's records. You can also do this by mail as most states don't require you to have a valid driver's license. But online would be much easier!

[chicowoodduck]

I did a renewal of my CA Commercial driver's license last year and it as a shi*t storm to complete...took me almost one year to finally get it in my grubby hands and many phone calls....they told me next time i will have to show up in person at the DMV Office in Sacramento....lol..:-)

[ThaiBob]

You've had some good responses, but my experience has been a bit different. My Thai DL was rejected by the car rental company 6-8 yrs. ago. I had booked the car about a month before the trip, so we had a really good price. Luckily, my wife has gotten her international DL (only good for one yr.), so we were able to rent the vehicle and go on our way. A foot note to this is that my TX DL was still valid, but I never received the DL card. So I was 'okay' to drive once I went to TX-DPS and got a new temporary.

Since that time I've let the TX DL expire, which means that always have to go get an International when I go to the USA. (I'm glad others have had success renting, but you could end up with the Rental Manager we encountered and then you're screwed). If you read the fine print on those car contracts, since on the Thai DL your home address is on Thai you're suppose to obtain an International DL and show it. (still no home address in English, but it's in the contract.)

It's a hassle to get the Intl DL. It requires you to get a notarized/certified notification of address, Visa photos and pay the fees, etc.

It's a hassle to renew the now expired TX DL. According to what I've read, I'll probably have to re-test to obtain one. Maybe you've family who can help you out with that (drive you to the DPS office, loan you the car for the test, etc.). I don't, which means I've got to rent one, which means I've got to have a valid Int'l DL.

Good luck!

6-8 years ago the Thai DL was in the Thai language so you needed an IDL as the purpose of IDL is to put your Thai DL in English. The new Thai DL is now in English so having an IDL is unnecessary. I know many Americans renting cars in America using their Thai DL. I think your experience is that's the way it was and not the way it is now.

[ThaiBob]

Your Thai DL is honored in America. I rented a car there last December so I see no downside. As a former California resident keeping your CDL might make it more difficult in not paying cali state income tax, for example.

Having a CA DL or ID card is not the test of residency for CA income tax purposes. It's the number of days per year you reside in the state.

I had a DL and now an ID card from California for the entirity of my 15+ years in Thailand, and told the FTB to F-off after the first year, and never heard from those weasels again ?

This is true but I keep a family member's mailing address only but I still get correspondence from CA tax board even though I've filed non-resident forms. I also get jury duty summons based on the DL database. For this reason I let (just recently) my CDL expire. For three years I have rented cars using my Thai DL only. No passport was requested as I made the reservations on-line.

[travelerjim]

My state allows renewal via internet : OK

Does yours ???

I would keep mine...easier in the event that I moved back to the USA

Good luck

[ThaiBob]

My state allows renewal via internet : OK

Does yours ???

I would keep mine...easier in the event that I moved back to the USA

Good luck

My former state did renewals online and also automatically mailed renewals but you reach a point where they want to see you, to be sure you are current regarding the law (written test), eye test (read the chart), reach a certain age, and update your photo. Only makes sense.

[DocRobert2015]

21

There can be a serious downside depending on your individual circumstance of allowing your US license to expire. I did let mine expire since I have been outside of the USA for 12 years. I went back to see my daughter last June and had to renew my passport since it was lost during my trip there from Chile. When I went in to have a replacement passport issued, they told me I was required to have two USA or state government issued i.d.s with my photo on them in order to apply for a new passport.

I had my birth certificate, a copy of my old passport, my legal citizenship identification from Costa Rica with my photo showing also that I was born in the USA, and a government issued D.L. showing I was a legal U.S. Citizen. They would not accept any of my documents and told me I would have to have an affidavit signed in front of them from someone who knows me personally. The would only accept legal identifications issued in the USA. They told me that was the only alternative available to me other than having the 2 i.d.(s) with photos.

Fortunately, my daughter was available to do this, but I have been gone so long that I lost track of most other people there and was in an areas where my daughter lived and I knew no one else. If it hadn't been for her helping me I am not sure what I could have done to renew my passport in time to get going to Thailand on the scheduled flight I had already paid for. So beware, that it can seriously cause problems if you face a similar situation.

I would never suggest that you allow you DL expire if you have an available option. I am a dual citizen of Costa Rica and the USA and now am going to have to find out if Thailand will accept my Costa Rica drivers license as they would from the USA? Does anyone have an answer about this also?

55

[smotherb]

Your Thai DL is honored in America. I rented a car there last December so I see no downside. As a former California resident keeping your CDL might make it more difficult in not paying cali state income tax, for example.

He does not drive here, so I doubt he would get a Thai DL. Not sure about a state with income tax, but wouldn't your passport serve to prove you were not in CA?

To the OP: I think I would keep the DL up to date--it is a useful ID; you may decide to rent a car for some reason somewhere; and if and when you return to the US, you have a DL.

However, it is very easy to renew or get a new Florida DL. I let mine expire and after three months was able to get it renewed online. My son's expired while he was here and he did not bother to try to get it renewed; however, when he went back to Florida he simply had to show him his old one and his passport to verify he wasn't there and all he had to do was pay the fee to get a new DL.

[smotherb]

My state allows renewal via internet : OK

Does yours ???

I would keep mine...easier in the event that I moved back to the USA

Good luck

My former state did renewals online and also automatically mailed renewals but you reach a point where they want to see you, to be sure you are current regarding the law (written test), eye test (read the chart), reach a certain age, and update your photo. Only makes sense.

Yeah, not sure when each state would require you return. I know at some point they want to get a new picture and test your eyes. However, I had my Florida DL renewed at 68, they hadn't seen me in ten years. I imagine I will not get another renewal at 78

[smotherb]

My recent application to vote online in the US presidential election was rejected because my California drivers license had expired.

Maybe they just didn't like your choice. However, I think requiring a DL is not a legitimate prerequisite. Some Americans do not have a DL; and there is no law requiring you to have one.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Your Thai DL is honored in America. I rented a car there last December so I see no downside. As a former California resident keeping your CDL might make it more difficult in not paying cali state income tax, for example.

Having a CA DL or ID card is not the test of residency for CA income tax purposes. It's the number of days per year you reside in the state.

I had a DL and now an ID card from California for the entirity of my 15+ years in Thailand, and told the FTB to F-off after the first year, and never heard from those weasels again ?

This is true but I keep a family member's mailing address only but I still get correspondence from CA tax board even though I've filed non-resident forms. I also get jury duty summons based on the DL database. For this reason I let (just recently) my CDL expire. For three years I have rented cars using my Thai DL only. No passport was requested as I made the reservations on-line.

I guess it depends on the county maybe...I've had a California street address post box service for my CDL/ID card and bank accounts for the entirity of my over 10 years in Thailand and don't ever recall receiving a jury summons. I'd get them every 3-4 years when I was Stateside but now none.

As for the junk mail from the FTB, I guess the question I have is if you're a non-resident, why are you filing any state returns at all? For at least a decade while in Thailand, I maintained a personal and later a rental condo in the state, received social security, and even a CA state agency pension paid to my Bay Area bank account but I still never filed any state income tax return (the amounts received were in the high 5 digits annually).

As these payors were reporting these payments to the FTB, one year they wrote me a letter asking me why I wasn't filing a state return and demanding I do so. I told them in no uncertain terms what they could do with their demand. (My most favorite letter I ever wrote ?) The thiefs wrote back saying I was right but if I ever returned to the state I must remember to start filing again (fat chance that!).

[OMGImInPattaya]

21

There can be a serious downside depending on your individual circumstance of allowing your US license to expire. I did let mine expire since I have been outside of the USA for 12 years. I went back to see my daughter last June and had to renew my passport since it was lost during my trip there from Chile. When I went in to have a replacement passport issued, they told me I was required to have two USA or state government issued i.d.s with my photo on them in order to apply for a new passport.

I had my birth certificate, a copy of my old passport, my legal citizenship identification from Costa Rica with my photo showing also that I was born in the USA, and a government issued D.L. showing I was a legal U.S. Citizen. They would not accept any of my documents and told me I would have to have an affidavit signed in front of them from someone who knows me personally. The would only accept legal identifications issued in the USA. They told me that was the only alternative available to me other than having the 2 i.d.(s) with photos.

Fortunately, my daughter was available to do this, but I have been gone so long that I lost track of most other people there and was in an areas where my daughter lived and I knew no one else. If it hadn't been for her helping me I am not sure what I could have done to renew my passport in time to get going to Thailand on the scheduled flight I had already paid for. So beware, that it can seriously cause problems if you face a similar situation.

I would never suggest that you allow you DL expire if you have an available option. I am a dual citizen of Costa Rica and the USA and now am going to have to find out if Thailand will accept my Costa Rica drivers license as they would from the USA? Does anyone have an answer about this also?

55

I think your problems have more to do with your dual citizenship. Most native born Americans would only have one form of photo ID and their birth certificate when they apply for a passport. (If they were in the military or worked for a local, state, or federal government agency they may have another "official" photo ID making for two). In a case like yours, without the old passport, they may be able to generate the application for a new one from the computerized record of the old one or if not, an official state ID card could be obtained with just ones birth cert.

[louminary]

Just saw the many responses and hope you all are still looking at this.

We moved to Thailand full time in 2006. In 2009 my Cal DL expired and I already had my 5 yr license from Thailand so I thought nothing of it......until 2011 when we went back to California for a six week vacation. Everything went fine from hotels to car rentals (I used and still have two U.S. credit cards) until we flew from Sacramento, Ca. up to Seattle to visit friends.

In Sacramento they wanted a picture I.D. so I gave them my Thai license. Not good enough, now they wanted TWO picture I.D.s

O.K., luckily my wife keeps a copy of our passports on her. Not good enough says the airline agent, she wanted original passport; you need two photo I.D.s and the passport doesn't count.....seriously? Well, neither of us have ever had two photo I.D.s that I can recall so we were in a pickle. I honestly had never given a thought to taking my passport on a domestic flight!

End of story is we begged enough that they finally let us on the plane to Washington. Unfortunately I had to worry for a week about how I was going to get home if they wouldn't let me on the return flight.

Same B.S. going home except the airline official now said it was illegal to keep a copy of your passport.....which is Total Crap because it says right in your passport to make a copy in case you lose the original.

Also, we had been here six years with no thought of returning to Ca. for anything other than vacation and I was suddenly asked to go back to my old employer for a short stint because two of their top management retired and they needed help to re-staff. Now I needed my Ca. D.L. renewed for sure......good news there: they still had me on file in their computers after all that time and I got my new licence with no problem...didn't even have to take the test. We ended up staying for three years so all the stuff I thought I wouldn't need I actually did.

The moral to the story is don't cut your ties to home if you can help it! I now keep two bank accounts, one in Ca. and one at Bangkok Bank at their N.Y. Branch. I keep my U.S. credit cards active. I keep my P.O. box in Ca. even though we don't use it any more. Most importantly I use my old work address for a permanent U.S. address as P.O. Box isn't always accepted, like when you are sent renewals on credit cards, Income Taxes and other financial transactions.

[kbelyeu]

The only downside I could foresee is having to complete the test again if you ever had to move back to the states.. in Texas I can renew online or by mail.

Kurt

[OMGImInPattaya]

Just saw the many responses and hope you all are still looking at this.We moved to Thailand full time in 2006. In 2009 my Cal DL expired and I already had my 5 yr license from Thailand so I thought nothing of it......until 2011 when we went back to California for a six week vacation. Everything went fine from hotels to car rentals (I used and still have two U.S. credit cards) until we flew from Sacramento, Ca. up to Seattle to visit friends.In Sacramento they wanted a picture I.D. so I gave them my Thai license. Not good enough, now they wanted TWO picture I.D.sO.K., luckily my wife keeps a copy of our passports on her. Not good enough says the airline agent, she wanted original passport; you need two photo I.D.s and the passport doesn't count.....seriously? Well, neither of us have ever had two photo I.D.s that I can recall so we were in a pickle. I honestly had never given a thought to taking my passport on a domestic flight!End of story is we begged enough that they finally let us on the plane to Washington. Unfortunately I had to worry for a week about how I was going to get home if they wouldn't let me on the return flight.Same B.S. going home except the airline official now said it was illegal to keep a copy of your passport.....which is Total Crap because it says right in your passport to make a copy in case you lose the original.Also, we had been here six years with no thought of returning to Ca. for anything other than vacation and I was suddenly asked to go back to my old employer for a short stint because two of their top management retired and they needed help to re-staff. Now I needed my Ca. D.L. renewed for sure......good news there: they still had me on file in their computers after all that time and I got my new licence with no problem...didn't even have to take the test. We ended up staying for three years so all the stuff I thought I wouldn't need I actually did.The moral to the story is don't cut your ties to home if you can help it! I now keep two bank accounts, one in Ca. and one at Bangkok Bank at their N.Y. Branch. I keep my U.S. credit cards active. I keep my P.O. box in Ca. even though we don't use it any more. Most importantly I use my old work address for a permanent U.S. address as P.O. Box isn't always accepted, like when you are sent renewals on credit cards, Income Taxes and other financial transactions.

Actually, I don't think a photo ID is required to fly in the US, at least for domestic flights. The reason being many people don't have them because there is no national ID card system that many other countries have. The photo ID "requirement" is to expedite your security screening (you are who you say you are and they can search their security databases for your namme). If you don't have one, you and your luggage are subject to much more extensive security screening before boarding. I think you just ran into some clueless minimum wage check-in contract workers.

[DocRobert2015]

17

OMGI,

Well, thanks for your response but I think it is not correct. First of all I am a native born American, with 18 years in the military, etc, and even a VA membership card.

Second of all, it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with dual citizenship. I was shown the regulation that clearly states that two forms of legal identifications must be shown if the original passport is no longer available, in order to re issue a new Passport.

I think this is where I erred...One of those forms must be photo i.d., not both of them. And since I had only my expired Nevada license, they would not accept that as a legal i.d. any more due to expiration. I was not in AZ, I was in CT at the time, so I could not get a state legal i.d. card because that required 90 days living in CT and an established address and utility proof. Of course since I was only on vacation I had none of those.

Additionally, I have no permanent address in the USA now for nearly 15 years so I could not go back to AZ even and get a state issued card any longer.

So for expats who have lived abroad for many years, allowed their DL to expire, and then need to travel back to the USA for some reason and then turn around and lose their passport, they will be required to have someone who knows them escort them to the passport services office, fill out an affidavit form in front of an officer there and sign it so they can certify their signature.

And if you, by chance, are just traveling and do not have someone locally who knows you who can do that, you are kind of stuck with limited options.

So once again, I reiterate, I would not recommend allowing either your state issued identification, whatever form that might take, expire, or you could find yourself without the necessary documentation to get a replacement passport. We don't need that outside of the USA if we lose our passport. We go to the local embassy, tell them it is lost, they can verify we had one on their computer system and they can reissue a new pp without all of this fuss, which seems kind of ironical having these issues inside of our own home country.

And no, at least as of June last year they cannot regenerate the application from past records or if they can they wouldn't which also seem kind of ironical.

Whatever the case, why put yourself into this vulnerable position knowingly unless there are other conditions that prevent you from renewing your license like mine was not having a home address to connect to a driver's license in AZ any longer? I have no intention of returning to the USA other than for a short period ever, and I have no need for a home address there any longer.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Well, thanks for your response but I think it is not correct. First of all I am a native born American, with 18 years in the military, etc, and even a VA membership card.

Second of all, it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with dual citizenship. I was shown the regulation that clearly states that two forms of legal identifications must be shown if the original passport is no longer available, in order to re issue a new Passport.

I think this is where I erred...One of those forms must be photo i.d., not both of them. Ay longer.

Well that makes more sense and that's exactly what I said...a DL or state ID card (or other official government photo ID) and one's birth cert. are all that's needed for a passport application. The devil is in the details as you point out.

[NanLaew]

Can you rent a car in the US, GB, etc. with a Thai driver's license, but no International Driver Permit?

Only if it's the full, 5-year Thai DL. The old 1-year and new 2-year Thai DL's are provisional licenses and won't be recognised, even with an associated IDP.

[ThaiBob]

Your Thai DL is honored in America. I rented a car there last December so I see no downside. As a former California resident keeping your CDL might make it more difficult in not paying cali state income tax, for example.

Having a CA DL or ID card is not the test of residency for CA income tax purposes. It's the number of days per year you reside in the state.

I had a DL and now an ID card from California for the entirity of my 15+ years in Thailand, and told the FTB to F-off after the first year, and never heard from those weasels again ?

This is true but I keep a family member's mailing address only but I still get correspondence from CA tax board even though I've filed non-resident forms. I also get jury duty summons based on the DL database. For this reason I let (just recently) my CDL expire. For three years I have rented cars using my Thai DL only. No passport was requested as I made the reservations on-line.

I guess it depends on the county maybe...I've had a California street address post box service for my CDL/ID card and bank accounts for the entirity of my over 10 years in Thailand and don't ever recall receiving a jury summons. I'd get them every 3-4 years when I was Stateside but now none.

As for the junk mail from the FTB, I guess the question I have is if you're a non-resident, why are you filing any state returns at all? For at least a decade while in Thailand, I maintained a personal and later a rental condo in the state, received social security, and even a CA state agency pension paid to my Bay Area bank account but I still never filed any state income tax return (the amounts received were in the high 5 digits annually).

As these payors were reporting these payments to the FTB, one year they wrote me a letter asking me why I wasn't filing a state return and demanding I do so. I told them in no uncertain terms what they could do with their demand. (My most favorite letter I ever wrote ?) The thiefs wrote back saying I was right but if I ever returned to the state I must remember to start filing again (fat chance that!).

My last residential address was/is used for absentee voting and is different from my current mailing address. I just received a Jury Summons from my old County.

I don't file state taxes any more. I did file a Non-resident form to collect a refund. They continually ask me why I haven't filed and I continually tell them I am not a resident. Not sure if I should surrender my CDL and just get a state ID.

[malcoml]

A little different but when I traveled for work on occasion rental companies would not accept my Thai license so I just used my Australian one.

If you don't go anywhere it might not bother you.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Your Thai DL is honored in America. I rented a car there last December so I see no downside. As a former California resident keeping your CDL might make it more difficult in not paying cali state income tax, for example.

Having a CA DL or ID card is not the test of residency for CA income tax purposes. It's the number of days per year you reside in the state.

I had a DL and now an ID card from California for the entirity of my 15+ years in Thailand, and told the FTB to F-off after the first year, and never heard from those weasels again ?

This is true but I keep a family member's mailing address only but I still get correspondence from CA tax board even though I've filed non-resident forms. I also get jury duty summons based on the DL database. For this reason I let (just recently) my CDL expire. For three years I have rented cars using my Thai DL only. No passport was requested as I made the reservations on-line.

I guess it depends on the county maybe...I've had a California street address post box service for my CDL/ID card and bank accounts for the entirity of my over 10 years in Thailand and don't ever recall receiving a jury summons. I'd get them every 3-4 years when I was Stateside but now none.

As for the junk mail from the FTB, I guess the question I have is if you're a non-resident, why are you filing any state returns at all? For at least a decade while in Thailand, I maintained a personal and later a rental condo in the state, received social security, and even a CA state agency pension paid to my Bay Area bank account but I still never filed any state income tax return (the amounts received were in the high 5 digits annually).

As these payors were reporting these payments to the FTB, one year they wrote me a letter asking me why I wasn't filing a state return and demanding I do so. I told them in no uncertain terms what they could do with their demand. (My most favorite letter I ever wrote ?) The thiefs wrote back saying I was right but if I ever returned to the state I must remember to start filing again (fat chance that!).

My last residential address was/is used for absentee voting and is different from my current mailing address. I just received a Jury Summons from my old County.

I don't file state taxes any more. I did file a Non-resident form to collect a refund. They continually ask me why I haven't filed and I continually tell them I am not a resident. Not sure if I should surrender my CDL and just get a state ID.

As I said, they're thiefs always trying to collect what they're not entitled too.

[aronp1]

If you decide to go get a Thai DL and you US license has already expired, you will be required to take two extra tests. The written and driving.

[NanLaew]

Burning bridges maybe? I think that giving up anything that can serve as a primary national ID such as a US driving license is a bit short-sighted. Many people come to live in LOS full-time and more than a few sell up lock stock and barrel back home. Fast-forward 10, 15 or 20 years and they are broke and posting threads seeking the cheapest way to return to their homeland and the cheapest accommodations once they are back there. There's possibly a romantic notion that not renewing your national DL is akin to chucking in your citizenship or thumbing your nose at a country and/or political system and/or personal taxation regime that doesn't please you. But when it all goes pear-shaped, just try and sign up for social security benefits back home without any previous, traceable and accountable residence history or fundamental proof of who you claim to be and see how far you get.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Burning bridges maybe? I think that giving up anything that can serve as a primary national ID such as a US driving license is a bit short-sighted. Many people come to live in LOS full-time and more than a few sell up lock stock and barrel back home. Fast-forward 10, 15 or 20 years and they are broke and posting threads seeking the cheapest way to return to their homeland and the cheapest accommodations once they are back there. There's possibly a romantic notion that not renewing your national DL is akin to chucking in your citizenship or thumbing your nose at a country and/or political system and/or personal taxation regime that doesn't please you. But when it all goes pear-shaped, just try and sign up for social security benefits back home without any previous, traceable and accountable residence history or fundamental proof of who you claim to be and see how far you get.

I think your concern is a little overblown...and besides, we're not talking about people burning their licenses, as if they were draft cards, as they board their flight to Thailand. The question is should one bother to renew it when it comes up for expiry and how much effort one should expend in doing so, especially if it involves a trip back to the home-country.

In the event of a repatriation, one would presumably have ones passport as a proof of identity, as well as the expired license or ID cards. Sure the cards aren't technically valid but in an emergency situation might be of use in proving identity. Also, every American should have their Social Security card, which never expires, so getting any benefits to which they are entitled shouldn't be a problem. (Also, it's a good form of government issued ID, albiet non-photo).

And upon return, driver licenses, state ID cards, Social Security cards, etc., can all be relatively easily obtained with certified copies of one's birth certificate. With these in hand, it would be easy to resume a normal life back in farangland.