Springsteen cancels show because of North Carolina law

[pedro01]

Dear Gay-Trans Bullies: Sorry, the Rest of Us Still Have Rights…

...You are the definition of intolerance. You embody hate. You see someone with a traditional lifestyle, and rather than taking your business elsewhere, rather than going on with your gay or trans life, you attack them. You harass them. You force your will, your way of life upon them. “Tolerance” isn’t enough for you. You want full compliance, full acceptance or HATE BE UPON THOSE WHO DISAGREE.

http://louderwithcrowder.com/dear-gay-trans-bully-pulpit-sorry-the-rest-of-us-still-have-rights/#ixzz45g0cqJmz

Amen, brother, Amen.

[Jai Dee]

A couple of flame posts have been removed from this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil.

Edit: A one suspension has been issued. Continue to flame, bait and ignore the other rules at your own peril.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Scott

[Chicog]

Dear Gay-Trans Bullies: Sorry, the Rest of Us Still Have Rights…

...You are the definition of intolerance. You embody hate. You see someone with a traditional lifestyle, and rather than taking your business elsewhere, rather than going on with your gay or trans life, you attack them. You harass them. You force your will, your way of life upon them. “Tolerance” isn’t enough for you. You want full compliance, full acceptance or HATE BE UPON THOSE WHO DISAGREE.

http://louderwithcrowder.com/dear-gay-trans-bully-pulpit-sorry-the-rest-of-us-still-have-rights/#ixzz45g0cqJmz

Amen, brother, Amen.

Amazing how well that reads if you swap "Gay-Trans Bullies"" and "gay or trans" for CHRISTIAN, and change the word "traditional" for "different".

Because I don't remember gays or transgender people every bullying me, or trying to impose their beliefs on me.

But I sure as shit in my lifetime have had to listen to god botherers moaning about shops opening on a Sunday, football matches during church and pubs being open. Fortunately most grown up people just tell them to go and be Christian in their own corner and stop pestering everyone else with their book of mythical fairy tales.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Chicog

[Publicus]

The elected state attorney general of North Carolina said he will not defend the new law in any court either state or federal where suits are being filed. “Not only is this new law a national embarrassment, it will set North Carolina’s economy back,” the Democrat Roy Cooper said. This provides an excellent contrast because Cooper is challenging the governor in the November general election in which polling shows 'em in a flatfooted tie.

More than 120 corporations have signed a letter to the Republican governor to oppose the bill. Paypal CEO Dan Schulman said for instance it's not to late for him to reconsider a new $3.6 million global operations center in Charlotte. And the NCAA said it is looking at its plan for 2017 and 2018 tournaments in the state.

Among the 120 companies to date to oppose the law are: American Airlines, which employs 14,000 people in the state and has its second largest hub in Charlotte, Apple, Dow Chemical, PayPal, Red Hat and Biogen.

“Our future as Americans should be focused on inclusion and prosperity, and not discrimination and division,” Apple said in a statement. “We were disappointed to see Governor McCrory sign this legislation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/us/north-carolina-law-antidiscrimination-pat-mccrory.html?

North Carolina has voted 50%-50% for Potus the past two elections, with Barack Obama narrowly winning the state in 2008 and Romney barely winning it in 2012. Former SecState Hillary Clinton has been averaging a 2-point lead in NC polling for the November election against Trump, leads Cruz by a 2.8% average and is in a statistical tie against Kasich.

Until 2008 NC had not voted D for Potus since 1976 when it voted to elect Jimmy Carter. With big time help like this from NC Republican kamikazes HRC can win the state and the D attorney general running for governor can win that race too. It may well be the best way for NC voters in the increasing majority to save the state's economy and its reputation.

[Jingthing]

Again the story here isn't about Springsteen but about this BIGOTED law in North Carolina.

They're not going to get away with it without consequences.

Every state that tries this crap is going to get burned by it.

Transgender people may indeed be small in numbers.

But Americans that see hateful bigotry and are moved to RESIST are large in numbers, and large in ECONOMIC power.

Take that, bigots. In the long run, YOU WILL LOSE.

North Carolina is not an island.

Hawaii may be islands but Hawaii would never be so stupid as to pass a law like that!

Bigotry raises its hideous head in North Carolina

Will officials now post monitors at public restrooms to check birth certificates and human bladder-evacuation portals?

...

This would be riotously funny if it weren’t so patently discriminatory.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bigotry-raises-its-hideous-head-in-north-carolina/2016/04/12/0093a590-00fd-11e6-b823-707c79ce3504_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Edited April 13, 2016 by Jingthing

[CousinEddie]

Another 'talentless hack' boycotts North Carolina.

RINGO STAR WONT PLAY.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/13/ringo-starr-cancels-concert-north-carolina-protest-anti-lgbt-law

[Ulysses G.]

Another 'talentless hack' boycotts North Carolina.

RINGO STAR WONT PLAY.

It is cruel calling Ringo talentless, but pretty much true. Maybe he thinks joining the bathroom boycott will give him more street cred.

However, he did work with some very talented people once upon a time. I bet Lennon would have played North Carolina and bucked political correctness (although it is reputed that he had a gay fling or two in his drug-addled youth).

Edited April 14, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[attrayant]

Updated 2016 NC Music Festival Flyer:

[Ulysses G.]

I have to say that the people of North Carolina are not missing much with that list. However, I wouldn't have minded seeing The Boss 30 years ago when he was still relevant.

[Publicus]

The new law is rightwhinge political correctness 100%.

It is a classic Christian Coalition and evangelical white extremist Protestant and Republican party political correctness.

Perpetual far right political correctness that is forever predictable, reactionary, spiteful, obvious.

The holier-than-thou right accuse others of political correctness yet they presume to be clean and pure of political motives, language, rhetoric, actions, harm.

Delusional, desperate and determined diehard deist crusaders, all of 'em. Fading fast from American society and culture, just not ever fast enough.

[mopar71]

Dear Gay-Trans Bullies: Sorry, the Rest of Us Still Have Rights…

...You are the definition of intolerance. You embody hate. You see someone with a traditional lifestyle, and rather than taking your business elsewhere, rather than going on with your gay or trans life, you attack them. You harass them. You force your will, your way of life upon them. “Tolerance” isn’t enough for you. You want full compliance, full acceptance or HATE BE UPON THOSE WHO DISAGREE.

http://louderwithcrowder.com/dear-gay-trans-bully-pulpit-sorry-the-rest-of-us-still-have-rights/#ixzz45g0cqJmz

Amen, brother, Amen.

Amazing how well that reads if you swap "Gay-Trans Bullies"" and "gay or trans" for CHRISTIAN, and change the word "traditional" for "different".

Because I don't remember gays or transgender people every bullying me, or trying to impose their beliefs on me.

But I sure as shit in my lifetime have had to listen to god botherers moaning about shops opening on a Sunday, football matches during church and pubs being open. Fortunately most grown up people just tell them to go and be Christian in their own corner and stop pestering everyone else with their book of mythical fairy tales.

The issue is not what happened to you as a kid in the 60s-70s. It is about today, 2016.

The tables have turned, the shoe is on the other foot, so turnabout is fair play?

If it was wrong backthen to bully gay and trans people, then it is wrong today to bully others. Others who weren't around when you were a kid and are blameless in what happened to you.

Now that the power has started to shift it is the gay/trans people who are bullying. Bullying - wrong then, wrong today.

[lostboy]

Dear Gay-Trans Bullies: Sorry, the Rest of Us Still Have Rights…

...You are the definition of intolerance. You embody hate. You see someone with a traditional lifestyle, and rather than taking your business elsewhere, rather than going on with your gay or trans life, you attack them. You harass them. You force your will, your way of life upon them. “Tolerance” isn’t enough for you. You want full compliance, full acceptance or HATE BE UPON THOSE WHO DISAGREE.

http://louderwithcrowder.com/dear-gay-trans-bully-pulpit-sorry-the-rest-of-us-still-have-rights/#ixzz45g0cqJmz

Amen, brother, Amen.

Amazing how well that reads if you swap "Gay-Trans Bullies"" and "gay or trans" for CHRISTIAN, and change the word "traditional" for "different".

Because I don't remember gays or transgender people every bullying me, or trying to impose their beliefs on me.

But I sure as shit in my lifetime have had to listen to god botherers moaning about shops opening on a Sunday, football matches during church and pubs being open. Fortunately most grown up people just tell them to go and be Christian in their own corner and stop pestering everyone else with their book of mythical fairy tales.

The issue is not what happened to you as a kid in the 60s-70s. It is about today, 2016.

The tables have turned, the shoe is on the other foot, so turnabout is fair play?

If it was wrong backthen to bully gay and trans people, then it is wrong today to bully others. Others who weren't around when you were a kid and are blameless in what happened to you.

Now that the power has started to shift it is the gay/trans people who are bullying. Bullying - wrong then, wrong today.

It is not surprising the at the Straight White Right Victimhood movement is complaining about having to tolerate things that they used to make fun of or use to humiliate people. There is nothing in the referenced post about what happened in the 60's. A perfectly reasonable and sensible point was being made about LGBT people never bullying the poster in his experience.

You, however, now claim that LGBT people are bullying you. How. By exposing bigotry? By not accepting the names that are used to harass them/us? Staying up for their/our rights? This is bullying? I suppose it is to someone who is forced to acknowledge, confront and change a lifetime of bigoted, prejudiced and now unacceptable behaviour.

You are in the minority. You no longer get to set the agenda for how minorities are treated. Deal with it.

As for your ludicrous notion that LGBT people are 'in power now', that is just the sour grapes of the whinging Victim. If we were in power, then ally straight boys would be forced to do things that you secretly think about but never discuss. All state national flowers would be pansies. Attendance at Gay Pride would be compulsory. All your worst nightmares come at once.

The Victim thing will tire pretty quickly. Since most people are not LGBT but support LGBT rights, those who are in the minority because they refuse to acknowledge their prejudice - which is LEARNED behaviour, not a genetic predisposition - will be and are being increasingly marginalised. There will be no more Matthew Shepherds thank you http://www.matthewshepard.jeff-reys.com whose killing was inspired by the sort of bigotry that is expressed here by many.

[thaihome]

The bathroom issue is mostly a media sensationalist product. What is forgotten is the NC law was passed in response to Charlotte (by far largest city in NC) passing an gay anti discrimination law. The state laws outlaws any local government from passing a gay anti discrimination law and nullifies the Charlotte law.

The bathroom issue was just tacked on for good measure.

TH

[Jingthing]

The bathroom issue is mostly a media sensationalist product. What is forgotten is the NC law was passed in response to Charlotte (by far largest city in NC) passing an gay anti discrimination law. The state laws outlaws any local government from passing a gay anti discrimination law and nullifies the Charlotte law.

The bathroom issue was just tacked on for good measure.

TH

No, it's worse than that.

The bathroom hysteria is what gets support for the more general anti-GLBT bigot laws which would be much harder to pass if presented purely and honestly. After all most Americans are for basic fairness for ALL citizens.

That and the ginned up fake issue of religious liberty (an excuse to discriminate).

The religious liberty thing was also used against black people.

Old tricks of the bigots ... new targets.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Jingthing

[rgs2001uk]

Another 'talentless hack' boycotts North Carolina.

RINGO STAR WONT PLAY.

It is cruel calling Ringo talentless, but pretty much true. Maybe he thinks joining the bathroom boycott will give him more street cred.

However, he did work with some very talented people once upon a time. I bet Lennon would have played North Carolina and bucked political correctness (although it is reputed that he had a gay fling or two in his drug-addled youth).

I am actually struggling to come up with anything this past his sell by date dinosaur has actually contributed to the world of music in the last 46 years.

As for Lennon, an affair with Brian Epstein in Spain if the rumours are to be believed.

[Jingthing]

Like I said JIM CROW all over again but this time about GLBT people rather than black people:

http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/4/14/south-needs-your-compassion-not-derision

When marriage equality was established nationally last year, I knew what was going to happen, because I’ve seen it happen before. After the Civil War the North declared victory and left black people to suffer under Jim Crow and sharecropping. After the Civil Rights Act, progressives declared victory and the Freedom Summer volunteers disappeared. After same-sex marriage won, gays declared victory and started planning their weddings while trans (and LGB) people were still being discriminated against and lawmakers started plotting. People forgot there was still work to be done. Well, that’s been the South for over a century. People have come down and helped us from time to time, but they have always declared a George W. Bush style “Mission Accomplished” and walked away, leaving us to struggle for what we do accomplish on our own.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[lostboy]

Senator Jeff Jackson of North Carolina, posted this on his Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Jeff-Jackson-NC-Senate-District-37-245711905631405/?fref=nf

A report of the ACLU findings on the issue of Title IX funding http://www.indyweek.com/news/archives/2016/03/23/aclu-north-carolina-could-lose-45-billion-in-title-ix-funding-over-bathroom-bill-nice-work-general-assembly

The US Government has laws against discrimination. US States cannot morally justify laws that discriminate against minorities.

The backlash continues.

[up-country_sinclair]

Bruce Springsteen has refused a paid service based on his belief that people should not be allowed to refuse a paid service based on their beliefs.

Hypocrite.

[thaihome]

Bruce Springsteen has refused a paid service based on his belief that people should not be allowed to refuse a paid service based on their beliefs.

Hypocrite.

No, it would only be hypocritical if he refused to let anyone that agreed with the law into his concert. If the baker does not want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then he/she should stop making wedding cakes altogether.

Nice try though...

TH

[DM07]

I have to say that the people of North Carolina are not missing much with that list. However, I wouldn't have minded seeing The Boss 30 years ago when he was still relevant.

"...when he was still relevant"?

Out of touch with reality, much?!

[mopar71]

Bruce Springsteen has refused a paid service based on his belief that people should not be allowed to refuse a paid service based on their beliefs.

Hypocrite.

No, it would only be hypocritical if he refused to let anyone that agreed with the law into his concert. If the baker does not want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then he/she should stop making wedding cakes altogether.

Nice try though...

TH

Private businesses should be able to choose who they serve. Gov't should stay out of it, that is not their job or responsibility. They have a hard enough time doing the job they are authorized to do under the Constitution.

Private citizens have all the right in the world to protest or publicly shame private businesses. Do it right and the business might be pressured to change their policies. Private citizens being threatened by the gov't to change should scare any citizen regardless of race, religion, politics or, yes, gender identification.

As hypocritical as Springsteen & Bryan Adams are (no problem playing in countries that outlaw LGT all together and maybe even assign the death penalty for it), at least they are private citizens and have the right to do what they are doing. Other private citizens can choose to support them or not...to buy their music or not.

What is the role of gov't? They should be figuring out how to get the country out of debt, enact policies to get people back to work, etc.

[lostboy]

Bruce Springsteen has refused a paid service based on his belief that people should not be allowed to refuse a paid service based on their beliefs.

Hypocrite.

No, it would only be hypocritical if he refused to let anyone that agreed with the law into his concert. If the baker does not want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then he/she should stop making wedding cakes altogether.

Nice try though...

TH

Private businesses should be able to choose who they serve. Gov't should stay out of it, that is not their job or responsibility. They have a hard enough time doing the job they are authorized to do under the Constitution.

Private citizens have all the right in the world to protest or publicly shame private businesses. Do it right and the business might be pressured to change their policies. Private citizens being threatened by the gov't to change should scare any citizen regardless of race, religion, politics or, yes, gender identification.

As hypocritical as Springsteen & Bryan Adams are (no problem playing in countries that outlaw LGT all together and maybe even assign the death penalty for it), at least they are private citizens and have the right to do what they are doing. Other private citizens can choose to support them or not...to buy their music or not.

What is the role of gov't? They should be figuring out how to get the country out of debt, enact policies to get people back to work, etc.

The role of government? Government is a consumer of money to provide services for citizens. Money for government comes from taxing transactions and borrowing. Debt underpins the capitalist economy. It is always humorous to watch all the right wing ideologues acting as rapid debt hawks on this issue.

There are now almost no commercial activities that any private citizen can do in America that does not require some kind of license or permit from a State Authority (and in The State not A State). Irrespective of the extent of reach government has into the activities of private businesses and corporations, the precedent is set that private businesses are not free or have no right to do what they want.

If denying service to a minority places that business in conflict with their licensing provisions or other legislative instruments, then such businesses must be penalised. The role of the government is to ensure a level playing field and non discrimination for all its citizent. Debt Management is a strategy, not an objective or a public 'value'.

[lostboy]

Bruce Springsteen has refused a paid service based on his belief that people should not be allowed to refuse a paid service based on their beliefs.

Hypocrite.

An oroboros is a mythical serpent or dragon eating its own tail. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

Just like the above post. You have twisted your logic to such an extent that you are now eating your own tail. You clearly have no formal training in Rhetoric. "Circular logic is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

https://www.google.co.th/imgres?imgurl=https://openclipart.org/image/2400px/svg_to_png/215030/Ouroboros.png&imgrefurl=https://openclipart.org/detail/215030/ouroboros&h=2400&w=2400&tbnid=ca8-Hn23msWpwM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=160&docid=yFPMUWhnCgRnYM&itg=1&client=safari&usg=__Y96Ou8ARAX-_mi0RjWa_WYjsask=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAzJzujJ_MAhWIFJQKHTmZBiUQ9QEIJDAA

Edited April 21, 2016 by lostboy

[mopar71]

There are now almost no commercial activities that any private citizen can do in America that does not require some kind of license or permit from a State Authority (and in The State not A State). Irrespective of the extent of reach government has into the activities of private businesses and corporations, the precedent is set that private businesses are not free or have no right to do what they want.

If denying service to a minority places that business in conflict with their licensing provisions or other legislative instruments, then such businesses must be penalised. The role of the government is to ensure a level playing field and non discrimination for all its citizent. Debt Management is a strategy, not an objective or a public 'value'.

I have never heard of any baker that has refused to bake a cake for gay people. They have rejected the theme of the cake, but they will still bake a cake for gay people.

I wonder what would happen if hardcore Christians went to gay bakeries and asked for cakes that had some anti-gay Bblical quote on it?

I wonder if any baker would be required to bake a cake for the American Nazi Party (yes, one exists) with evil Nazi slogans on it?

[Scott]

This might be of interest to some:

Target: Use the bathroom of your 'gender identity' identity'

Published April 20, 2016

Target said its policy is not new, but is a restatement of corporate policy. (target.com)

Visit a Target and use whichever bathroom you’d like.

That’s the message the retail giant appears to be sending with a new statement on its website that ostensibly takes aim at so-called “bathroom laws” seeking to restrict men’s and women’s bathrooms to the sex listed on a person’s birth certificate.

“In our stores, we demonstrate our commitment to an inclusive experience in many ways,” the statement said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/20/target-use-bathroom-your-gender-identity.html

[up-country_sinclair]

This might be of interest to some:

Target: Use the bathroom of your 'gender identity' identity'

Who will undoubtedly be interested are the shareholders of Target stock, because many groups will likely be organizing a boycott of Target stores. If the boycott catches on (and none of us know if it will or not), it will be interesting to watch what happens.

[Scott]

This might be of interest to some:

Target: Use the bathroom of your 'gender identity' identity'

Who will undoubtedly be interested are the shareholders of Target stock, because many groups will likely be organizing a boycott of Target stores. If the boycott catches on (and none of us know if it will or not), it will be interesting to watch what happens.

.....or they can just run over to 'Chick Fil A' and use their toilets.

[lostboy]

There are now almost no commercial activities that any private citizen can do in America that does not require some kind of license or permit from a State Authority (and in The State not A State). Irrespective of the extent of reach government has into the activities of private businesses and corporations, the precedent is set that private businesses are not free or have no right to do what they want.

If denying service to a minority places that business in conflict with their licensing provisions or other legislative instruments, then such businesses must be penalised. The role of the government is to ensure a level playing field and non discrimination for all its citizent. Debt Management is a strategy, not an objective or a public 'value'.

I have never heard of any baker that has refused to bake a cake for gay people. They have rejected the theme of the cake, but they will still bake a cake for gay people.

I wonder what would happen if hardcore Christians went to gay bakeries and asked for cakes that had some anti-gay Bblical quote on it?

I wonder if any baker would be required to bake a cake for the American Nazi Party (yes, one exists) with evil Nazi slogans on it?

What is a gay bakery? Is there some special marking that indicates the bakery's gayness?

What is it with the cakes? I am sure that gay people who may also be bakers and perhaps operate a commercial entity called a bakery, would happily write a verse from Leviticus for 'hardcore' - you know what that means right? - christians just as they will probably be happy to put a pink triangle on a cake for American Nazis. Those people, will of course have watched The Blues Brothers and seen John Belushi and Dan Ackroyd's views on Nazis. So don't worry about gay bakeries and cakes for Christians or Nazis. In fact don't worry about cakes or flowers or anything like that. Worry about the real discrimination.

You are aware that the North Carolina law allows employees who are straight to be dismissed if they support same sex marriage? You are aware that LGBT people can be denied access to public facilities. These issues are real, not like the cake stories or the toilet stories. Replace the term LGBT with any racial minority and would you then take this seriously?

Wonder about gay bakeries if you like. If you find one, please point it out to the rest of us because I am quite certain none exist in the world. But the persistent trivialisation of the issues of LGBT youth who are bullied and now denied access to support services, of LGBT employees whose livelihoods are at risk and many other circumstances of discrimination in the name of 'sincerely held belief' are stirring massive backlashes from people who recognise the fundamental unfairness of this treatment of fellow citizens.

Numbers of people who identify as religious have been steadily diminishing. The bigotry and latest salvo in the culture wars that were lost in 2015 is backfiring. Badly. It is not just Springsteen. it is a counter-reformation.

[JDGRUEN]

Hasbeen musicians and singers cannot resurrect their faded careers by latching on to current political controversies. A number of years ago an apt observer coined SHUT UP AND SING .... which sums up the then clumsy political intervention by decades old singers and groups.. NOT ONE FAN paid for a ticket to any concert held by these do-gooders went to pay for their compulsion to tell citizens of one U.S. State or another how to conduct their creation of laws... Celebrities have ZERO Political Acumen... no more than the average concert fan. Some of these bright stars never even completed high school ... So SHUT UP AND SING Springsteen... as you have no more insight into any political issue or event that an average 8 grader in America. You just have a platform because you were ONCE popular on the music scene. The only thing you do is piss off many thousands of Americas who just wish you would SHUT UP AND SING ...