CIA director says would refuse to torture even if ordered by new president

[LomSak27]

Well great News

However If the new president wants to torture, he/she, appoints a new director of the CIA. Doh!

[stillbornagain]

This would marginally be news if Brennan was a run of the mil public servant who, after attaining a very, very high level of SES (Senior Executive Service) offered this information upon request or to steady public policy during a change of administrations. However, Brennan is not that man!

Brennan is hand in glove with Obama on disassembly of radical islam. He is instrumental in blinding US policy and training to the unique threat of radical islam and jihad- jihad, a phenomena that has variously haunted many over the ages simply no longer exists at all, according to Brennan. The idea that Brennan would tell a siting president that he would not do something not only seeks to undermine the election process but establish some quasi standard as if he had the power to stop it. Brennan could step down as he offered but could not prevent his agency from doing the will of the Executive. ...another example of misrepresenting the nature of government to Americans! Brennan is a servant, and a poor one at that.

A former aggressive supporter of Enhanced Interrogation, he changed his views when enticed by politics. This alone makes him most repugnant of men but there is more, plenty more. There is a reason there is so much smoke around Brennan's Saudi Time; it constantly leaks out in conjecture, first person accounts, and connect the dots. This man is a chief architect of America's Losing War by Jihad. IMO, when/if the facts are out, Brennan will make Philby look like a patriot!

Brennan

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/22/cia-director-brennan-islamic-state-is-ideology-of-/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/raymond-ibrahim-cia-chief-john-brennans-deceptions-about-islam

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=334_1432700212

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printindividualProfile.asp?indid=2577

http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/15993

You defend torture but don't have the courage to use the word? Been using the Dick Cheney Book of Doublespeak I see.

You also seem to believe that the People, you know, the Voters in the Electoral Process, and their primacy trumps the law. Pun not intended. If the People elect a person who decides to use torture then it would be most appropriate for any senior official to say, well Mr. President, there is a law against that. But your version of Wild West Democracy is to say that the People have Spoken and the President is unrestrained by any other factor.

Radical Islam is an 'ism'. You can't fight it with tanks, air craft carriers or stealth bombers. Like the war on drugs or the ever present war on minorities, you can't shoot your way to a solution. Criminal activities inspired by what you call radical Islamists is a law enforcement matter. The events in Belgium demonstrate this. Beyond a doubt. You are a big fan of self-evidentiary revelations. Here is one. The EU puzzles are going to sort out terrorists by using the criminal justice system. No Guantanamo needed. No renditions. No 'with us or against us' arrogance. Plain old, solid, steady law enforcement. Using law enforcement techniques will allow them to go from a reactive posture to a more preventative posture in time as their skills and intelligence systems develop.

And guess, what, I do not believe that they will be using torture.

Radical Islam as represented by entities is political. You can try engaging them militarily but this has been demonstrated time after time to be ineffective. 15 years of war in Afghanistan. The war will cease in Afghanistan when a political solution is reached. Don't need you cowboys and your water boards. I've seen enough of those dicks in Kabul to last a lifetime. Fortunately now I deal with State Department people there and not the crazy eyed, gun toting mercenaries, although I still run across a few of them at ISAF.

Your anti Obama polemic doesn't work. How many defeats does the US military need to endure before you realise this? Your military can only destroy. It cannot create or build. Your military does not have the tools nor the culture for it.

I am sure that US agencies will keep their torture. They do after all believe themselves to be above the law. That the end justifies the means. That they are Patriots. But don't be surprised if your antagonists use the same treatments on your forces.

I wish I had written this. I wish I could have written this. I'd just like here to do a brief recap of the history leading up to the use of torture. The torture program was designed by the 2 psychologists, Mitchell and Jessen, who founded Sere. Sere is the program designed to teach prisoners of war to resist torture. So essentially the U.S. torture program was a case of reverse engineering. These 2 psychologists had absolutely no experience in interrogation. After the FBI observed the techniques in action, they withdrew from these interrogations with contempt for the methods. They know that people who are tortured will say whatever it takes to make the pain stop. I think that's brief enough.

I think a lot of the problem can be traced to TV shows like 24. In these shows, we already know who the villains are. We know that they have the information. But in real life, the interrogators mostly don't know. So they extract all kinds of useless confessions from parties who are, in reality ignorant. Who just want to make the pain stop. Actually, these confessions are worse than useless. Because all this data has to be somehow confirmed or disproven. You can also imagine the effect on the local population when their husbands and sons are tortured for no good reason at all. Those of us who don't suffer from IWA -Iraq War Amnesia - will recall the American let's-make-enemies-of-the-locals program otherwise knows as mass internment. That did not exactly endear us to the local population. I suspect torture would be regarded with even more distaste.

The source of a lot of this kind of activity whether it's torture over there or posters here who exult in the infliction of pain whether even if it's admittedly useless us frustration.. The same kind of frustration that might lead some people to beat their dog because their boss gave them a hard time.

There's a new poll out today. Young Arab people were asked would they approve of ISIS if it's methods weren't violent. 13% approved. Last year they were asked the same question. 19% approved. In other words there's been a huge decline in support of ISIS' ideology in the Arab world. From precisely the local population that Isis wants to attract. You would think that the people who rage about the Islamist threat would be happy about this. I guarantee that no matter what they say, they're not. :They'll find a way to dismiss it. They don't want to see Moslems as anything but raging zealots. This rage, this anti-Muslim ideology gives meaning to their life. They need it. Deprive them of that and what have they got? They can rage against Obama, but I doubt they expect missiles directed by parties they approve to be launched against him.

Really, it's the same kind of satisfaction that about a millenium ago Christians derived from the Crusades. It's one thing to denounce Islam - mere words - but quite another to actually slaughter the savages. Even if, in that case, it turns out that the "savages" were far more civilized than the Crusaders.

[Mudcrab]

This would marginally be news if Brennan was a run of the mil public servant who, after attaining a very, very high level of SES (Senior Executive Service) offered this information upon request or to steady public policy during a change of administrations. However, Brennan is not that man!

Brennan is hand in glove with Obama on disassembly of radical islam. He is instrumental in blinding US policy and training to the unique threat of radical islam and jihad- jihad, a phenomena that has variously haunted many over the ages simply no longer exists at all, according to Brennan. The idea that Brennan would tell a siting president that he would not do something not only seeks to undermine the election process but establish some quasi standard as if he had the power to stop it. Brennan could step down as he offered but could not prevent his agency from doing the will of the Executive. ...another example of misrepresenting the nature of government to Americans! Brennan is a servant, and a poor one at that.

A former aggressive supporter of Enhanced Interrogation, he changed his views when enticed by politics. This alone makes him most repugnant of men but there is more, plenty more. There is a reason there is so much smoke around Brennan's Saudi Time; it constantly leaks out in conjecture, first person accounts, and connect the dots. This man is a chief architect of America's Losing War by Jihad. IMO, when/if the facts are out, Brennan will make Philby look like a patriot!

Brennan

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/22/cia-director-brennan-islamic-state-is-ideology-of-/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/raymond-ibrahim-cia-chief-john-brennans-deceptions-about-islam

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=334_1432700212

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printindividualProfile.asp?indid=2577

http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/15993

You defend torture but don't have the courage to use the word? Been using the Dick Cheney Book of Doublespeak I see.

You also seem to believe that the People, you know, the Voters in the Electoral Process, and their primacy trumps the law. Pun not intended. If the People elect a person who decides to use torture then it would be most appropriate for any senior official to say, well Mr. President, there is a law against that. But your version of Wild West Democracy is to say that the People have Spoken and the President is unrestrained by any other factor.

Radical Islam is an 'ism'. You can't fight it with tanks, air craft carriers or stealth bombers. Like the war on drugs or the ever present war on minorities, you can't shoot your way to a solution. Criminal activities inspired by what you call radical Islamists is a law enforcement matter. The events in Belgium demonstrate this. Beyond a doubt. You are a big fan of self-evidentiary revelations. Here is one. The EU puzzles are going to sort out terrorists by using the criminal justice system. No Guantanamo needed. No renditions. No 'with us or against us' arrogance. Plain old, solid, steady law enforcement. Using law enforcement techniques will allow them to go from a reactive posture to a more preventative posture in time as their skills and intelligence systems develop.

And guess, what, I do not believe that they will be using torture.

Radical Islam as represented by entities is political. You can try engaging them militarily but this has been demonstrated time after time to be ineffective. 15 years of war in Afghanistan. The war will cease in Afghanistan when a political solution is reached. Don't need you cowboys and your water boards. I've seen enough of those dicks in Kabul to last a lifetime. Fortunately now I deal with State Department people there and not the crazy eyed, gun toting mercenaries, although I still run across a few of them at ISAF.

Your anti Obama polemic doesn't work. How many defeats does the US military need to endure before you realise this? Your military can only destroy. It cannot create or build. Your military does not have the tools nor the culture for it.

I am sure that US agencies will keep their torture. They do after all believe themselves to be above the law. That the end justifies the means. That they are Patriots. But don't be surprised if your antagonists use the same treatments on your forces.

I wish I had written this. I wish I could have written this. I'd just like here to do a brief recap of the history leading up to the use of torture. The torture program was designed by the 2 psychologists, Mitchell and Jessen, who founded Sere. Sere is the program designed to teach prisoners of war to resist torture. So essentially the U.S. torture program was a case of reverse engineering. These 2 psychologists had absolutely no experience in interrogation. After the FBI observed the techniques in action, they withdrew from these interrogations with contempt for the methods. They know that people who are tortured will say whatever it takes to make the pain stop. I think that's brief enough.

I think a lot of the problem can be traced to TV shows like 24. In these shows, we already know who the villains are. We know that they have the information. But in real life, the interrogators mostly don't know. So they extract all kinds of useless confessions from parties who are, in reality ignorant. Who just want to make the pain stop. Actually, these confessions are worse than useless. Because all this data has to be somehow confirmed or disproven. You can also imagine the effect on the local population when their husbands and sons are tortured for no good reason at all. Those of us who don't suffer from IWA -Iraq War Amnesia - will recall the American let's-make-enemies-of-the-locals program otherwise knows as mass internment. That did not exactly endear us to the local population. I suspect torture would be regarded with even more distaste.

The source of a lot of this kind of activity whether it's torture over there or posters here who exult in the infliction of pain whether even if it's admittedly useless us frustration.. The same kind of frustration that might lead some people to beat their dog because their boss gave them a hard time.

There's a new poll out today. Young Arab people were asked would they approve of ISIS if it's methods weren't violent. 13% approved. Last year they were asked the same question. 19% approved. In other words there's been a huge decline in support of ISIS' ideology in the Arab world. From precisely the local population that Isis wants to attract. You would think that the people who rage about the Islamist threat would be happy about this. I guarantee that no matter what they say, they're not. :They'll find a way to dismiss it. They don't want to see Moslems as anything but raging zealots. This rage, this anti-Muslim ideology gives meaning to their life. They need it. Deprive them of that and what have they got? They can rage against Obama, but I doubt they expect missiles directed by parties they approve to be launched against him.

Really, it's the same kind of satisfaction that about a millenium ago Christians derived from the Crusades. It's one thing to denounce Islam - mere words - but quite another to actually slaughter the savages. Even if, in that case, it turns out that the "savages" were far more civilized than the Crusaders.

The torture programme was designed many centuries before the USA was even thought of.

[stillbornagain]

The torture programme was designed many centuries before the USA was even thought of.

And was used successfully to get witches and wizards to confess to serving Satan.

[simple1]

"CIA director says would refuse to torture even if ordered" he doesnt however have and qualms about obliterating whole villages full of innocent people using unmanned aerial drones

Does that mean something like he has no problem in blowing away those who harbour, hide, feed and support terrorists ?

as far as i know this type of thing a war crime

Definitions of War Crimes:

www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule156

[CousinEddie]

Why should Trump care about foreign prisoners of war?

He doesn't like the American prisoners of war. A bunch of losers that got caught.....

[shagorillaHotel]

"CIA director says would refuse to torture even if ordered" he doesnt however have and qualms about obliterating whole villages full of innocent people using unmanned aerial drones

Does that mean something like he has no problem in blowing away those who harbour, hide, feed and support terrorists ?

as far as i know this type of thing a war crime

Definitions of War Crimes:

www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule156

just arbitary one of many:

"(ii) Other serious violations of international humanitarian law committed during an international armed conflict (continued):

making the civilian population or individual civilians, not taking a direct part in hostilities, the object of attack;

launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;"

[derator01]

Several off topic posts have been removed from view along with a few associated replies. Please stick to the topic and abide by forum rules.

[pitrevie]

Why should Trump care about foreign prisoners of war?

He doesn't like the American prisoners of war. A bunch of losers that got caught.....

Yep a man so eager to commit American troops to war and yet so reluctant himself to participate when it was his turn.

[KenKadz]

The ignorance of making this statement in public indicates that Mr. Brennan is not qualified for the position.

[dutchisaan]

The ignorance of making this statement in public indicates that Mr. Brennan is not qualified for the position.

I think you are not qualified to post on this subject.

[KenKadz]

The ignorance of making this statement in public indicates that Mr. Brennan is not qualified for the position.

I think you are not qualified to post on this subject.

And you think this because?

[Scott]

Please keep it civil. You do not have to be 'qualified' to post on any topic. Just keep your post within the forum rules and refrain from trolling.

[stevenl]

The torture programme was designed many centuries before the USA was even thought of.

And was used successfully to get witches and wizards to confess to serving Satan.

Or not, to be established by them burning.