Germany grants Turkish call to allow comic's prosecution

[NiwPix]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

Really? From that statement you take that I actually mean censored countries....REALLY????

Do I really need to rephrase that sentence to "from around the free democratic world that does not have absurd laws" or is that too vague too? Still don't understand what I mean?

But, also for the sake of argument...if enough people in a particular country stand up for what is right ( or believe is right ), there is jacksh*t the government can do. What will the thai government do if 10 million of their citizens write a poem about erdogan?

[simple1]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

Can you explain what Thai law has to do with Germany kowtowing to Turkey?

No country in their right minds would sacrifice their citizens for a non secular muslim state. Germany under Merkel's helm is clearly not a healthy democracy.

if you cannot comprehend the hypocrisy of people living in Thailand kowtowing to Thai censorship laws, whilst banging on about German law, so be it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by simple1

[soalbundy]

No insult is bad enough for the odious Turkish leader, who heads up on eof the most brutal nd repressive regimes in the world. Merkel's grovelling support for this monster is what one has come to expect from the German Chancellor who ditched her Communist credentials to become the ultimate capitalist lackey. She and Erdogan are two peas from the same poisonous pod.

she isn't supporting him, she is applying the law in Germany as it stands now, being prosecuted doesn't mean you are going to be found guilty. Germany is a law abiding country, that can work for or against you.

[jaidam]

No insult is bad enough for the odious Turkish leader, who heads up on eof the most brutal nd repressive regimes in the world. Merkel's grovelling support for this monster is what one has come to expect from the German Chancellor who ditched her Communist credentials to become the ultimate capitalist lackey. She and Erdogan are two peas from the same poisonous pod.

she isn't supporting him, she is applying the law in Germany as it stands now, being prosecuted doesn't mean you are going to be found guilty. Germany is a law abiding country, that can work for or against you.

Germany is not a law abiding country. It selectively chooses which law it will implement at which time. A completely arbitrary procedure. A very clear example would be the Dublin convention which states that to be an asylum seeker, the potential seeker MUST register and claim asylum in the 1st safe country they arrive at after fleeing their homeland. Germany(and the UK) does not implement this clear law, and allows potential asylum seekers to travel and holiday in as many countries they want before shopping around for the best welfare package before deciding which lucky country they will go to. Basically it's anarchy in Europe at the moment because people are so scared to upset the intolerant.

[SgtRock]

A lot to do about nothing. A complaint was made, a court will decide if there is ground for a conviction. That's all.

Plus planned retraction of the current legislation, from the OP...

"She said her government had also decided that Germany's law criminalizing insults of a foreign head of state is "dispensable in the future" and intends to repeal it, effective in 2018"

I do not think Merkel will be in power in 2018 to repeal anything.

[Naam]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

Can you explain what Thai law has to do with Germany kowtowing to Turkey?

No country in their right minds would sacrifice their citizens for a non secular muslim state. Germany under Merkel's helm is clearly not a healthy democracy.

Böhmermann going to court is clearly according to prevailing law, paragraph 103 German Penal Code. anything else is bla-bla.

[stevenl]

A lot to do about nothing. A complaint was made, a court will decide if there is ground for a conviction. That's all.

Plus planned retraction of the current legislation, from the OP...

"She said her government had also decided that Germany's law criminalizing insults of a foreign head of state is "dispensable in the future" and intends to repeal it, effective in 2018"

I do not think Merkel will be in power in 2018 to repeal anything.

'Effective in 2018' has no connection with her being in power in 2018.

[Mosha]

I guess Spitting Images was banned in Germany?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[NiwPix]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

Can you explain what Thai law has to do with Germany kowtowing to Turkey?

No country in their right minds would sacrifice their citizens for a non secular muslim state. Germany under Merkel's helm is clearly not a healthy democracy.

Böhmermann going to court is clearly according to prevailing law, paragraph 103 German Penal Code. anything else is bla-bla.

I just took the time to read paragraph 103....this paragraph says that if somebody insults a head of the state or its representative WHILE in Germany or on German territory ( like a German Embassy ).

I didn't check, but I am pretty sure he wasn't in Germany or German ground at the time of the insult, thus I think there is no reason for him to get prosecuted.

Also, article 5 in the German constitution covers freedom of speech ( which includes satire...which is what this was ).

So, I still don't see why he is being prosecuted.

[Naam]

I just took the time to read paragraph 103....this paragraph says that if somebody insults a head of the state or its representative WHILE in Germany or on German territory ( like a German Embassy ).

I didn't check, but I am pretty sure he wasn't in Germany or German ground at the time of the insult, thus I think there is no reason for him to get prosecuted.

Also, article 5 in the German constitution covers freedom of speech ( which includes satire...which is what this was ).

So, I still don't see why he is being prosecuted.

your German lacks mate. only the second part of the wording "while in Germany" pertains to foreign officials, the first part pertains to "head of state" without the limitation "while...".

the difference is made clear by dividing the wording in two parts using "oder" (or).

insults like "goatfàcker" are neither "satire" nor covered by freedom of speech.

so now you see why...

[NiwPix]

I just took the time to read paragraph 103....this paragraph says that if somebody insults a head of the state or its representative WHILE in Germany or on German territory ( like a German Embassy ).

I didn't check, but I am pretty sure he wasn't in Germany or German ground at the time of the insult, thus I think there is no reason for him to get prosecuted.

Also, article 5 in the German constitution covers freedom of speech ( which includes satire...which is what this was ).

So, I still don't see why he is being prosecuted.

your German lacks mate. only the second part of the wording "while in Germany" pertains to foreign officials, the first part pertains to "head of state" without the limitation "while...".

the difference is made clear by dividing the wording in two parts using "oder" (or).

insults like "goatfàcker" are neither "satire" nor covered by freedom of speech.

so now you see why...

German being the 3rd language I learned, I think it is fair enough that I did not and STILL do not see that part you mentioned being differentiated. The way I am reading it, they put the head of the state and its representatives in one sentence. Again, I must be reading it wrong, since he is being prosecuted. German, especially when it comes to law / bureaucracy is a pain in the a$$ language.

Anyways, while the word "Goatf*cker" itself is not satire, the entire context of the poem with the word and other word he used is satire. I had a smile on my face when listening to the poem. A retired German teacher busted out laughing when I showed him the video. If it is tasteful or not, is a different debate.

I wonder if Germany has a similar law that protects the head of the state of Germany...in this case Merkel. Because I have seen and heard quite a few publicized insults on Merkel.

[simple1]

A Swiss national residing in Germany was prosecuted under the law referenced by Naan (apparently legislated during the rule of the Kaiser) after receiving a complaint by the Swiss government; the matter before the Court is not unique.

The EU - Turkey deal, mainly pushed through by Germany, so far appears to be successful in outcome (refer below). From a realpolitik view one can understand Merkel's wish not to upset the apple cart and let the complaint be dealt with by a Court.

"European Council President Donald Tusk spoke before European Parliament in Strasbourg, noting that the numbers of migrants coming to Greece from Turkey across the Aegean Sea has dropped significantly. In January, he said, it was 70,000 people, in March it was just 30,000 and in April, just 1,000 people have arrived thus far. thus far"

Edited April 17, 2016 by simple1

[Naam]

German being the 3rd language I learned, I think it is fair enough that I did not and STILL do not see that part you mentioned being differentiated.

you are of course free to think whatever pleases you as thoughts are STILL free. concerning languages we could form a club. my third language is English

[Naam]

A Swiss national residing in Germany was prosecuted under the law referenced by Naan

"Naan" is a bread type baked in a tandoori oven, whereas "Naam" is my TV handle generated by Thais who have difficulties to pronounce my first name "Walter"

[Naam]

I wonder if Germany has a similar law that protects the head of the state of Germany... in this case Merkel.

yes, that law does indeed exist (§ 90 German Penal Code) but it does not apply to Angela Merkel because she is not Germany's head of state.

[NiwPix]

Just found paragraph 103 in English and makes a bit more sense or at least easier to understand for me. Here is the quote for everybody to read as well:

Section 103
Defamation of organs and representatives of foreign states

(1) Whosoever insults a foreign head of state, or, with respect to his position, a member of a foreign government who is in Germany in his official capacity, or a head of a foreign diplomatic mission who is accredited in the Federal territory shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine, in case of a slanderous insult to imprisonment from three months to five years.

(2) If the offence was committed publicly, in a meeting or through the dissemination of written materials (section 11(3)) Section 200 shall apply. An application for publication of the conviction may also be filed by the prosecution service.

The confusing part for me was, the german version does not use the word "insult" in the first part of the sentence but rather towards the end, which made it sound like a generalization of the first part of sentence. aaaaaanways, doesn't matter anymore. It's all clear now

Regarding paragraph 90b, wouldn't Merkel / chancellor be considered a constitutional organ?

[metisdead]

A grammar police post has been removed.

[Sydebolle]

So, if Erdogan was in Germany or in the premises of a German Embassy/Consulate then he can get a ruling.

We'll see

Yes, that would make sense. However German rights are different. In this case you are absolutely wrong!

Well, as I said, we will see.

Erdogan can only sue if he was on German territory, i.e. in Germany or in a German diplomatic territory.

The German law paragraph 103 deals with the insult of instruments or representatives of foreign states; the paragraph 200 refers to how the ruling is to be published and is copied for clarity only because it is mentioned in the original paragraph 103)

[Naam]

Erdogan can only sue if he was on German territory

wrong!

[NiwPix]

Erdogan can only sue if he was on German territory

wrong!

Naam is correct.

Please re-read post #40 & #46. That explains why Erdogan CAN press charges. The Devil is in the detail Grammar

[Steely Dan]

Here's the best idea I've read on the subject, an insulting Erdogan limerick competition. That should show pretty pronto which Countries have surrendered to Islamic libel laws.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/introducing-the-president-erdogan-offensive-poetry-competition/

[NiwPix]

Here's the best idea I've read on the subject, an insulting Erdogan limerick competition. That should show pretty pronto which Countries have surrendered to Islamic libel laws.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/introducing-the-president-erdogan-offensive-poetry-competition/

This is the stuff I was hoping for. Now if artists with some popularity would join in on this, that would be great