Advice - Is it time to give up?

[richard_smith237]

This is a very tricky situation.

A Divorce will have to be contested because you have a child. In reality this means you could come to an agreement, but that agreement needs to be authorised by a court. This agreement can involve settlement, custody agreements, visitation agreements, child support etc...

Courts tend to favour the mother (according to a Family Lawyer I know). Unless you can prove your wife is unfit to be a mother you will have to fight custody in the courts (contested divorce) - i.e. you would have to prove alcoholism, drugs, criminal record etc... just saying the child would be better off in Canada would not win you a custody battle. A drawn out custody battle with the best lawyers could cost you about US$100,000.

You could loose the only leverage you have (Money) if a court were to award your wife custody of your child, you would have to pay child support.

Thus: Given your situation it seems that Divorce through the courts is a very risky choice.

In the meantime, keep a diary of any threats etc, keep any evidence (photos, Videos, recorded phone calls) that may indicate your Wife is an unfit mother... keep anything which could support your case, and do nothing which could harm your case.

Edited April 21, 2016 by richard_smith237

[smotherb]

Manarack is right. This is. a lose lose situation. Sad, but even if you managed to get her to Canada. What do you think would happen there. She will still be the same idiot. Will still be out to get what she can to send home. There however she can be in a real posistion to call the shots. Divorce, alimony. could get a boyfriend and that not marry him so you still have to pay her way.

Send 5000 or so to her every month and dont buy into all the false emergencies that will befall you........Good luck and go on with your life.

Yeah, in the village, B5k might do--if he doesn't get sick or go to a good school. However, sending more money is not the answer either. Your son will most likely get the minimum, the same all the other kids get, and whatever is left over will go for adult needs. If you send more money, it will only mean more for adult needs.

[uthaithanirules]

Gosh how many times do we hear this? YOU decided to bring a new life into the world- the only thing as a father is to give your child the best opportunities in the world- that's it- nothing more. What else you do does not matter. Money is irrelevant.

It's going to be very tricky.

Good luck

Money is everything, you can't do a damn thing without it.

Kid is better off with the mother and her family when he is younger. I doubt the falang has many relatives back in Canada, probably working all the time so not so many friends, especially female ones, and what's childcare cost in Canada?

OP can save his pennies, make sure the kid when older can go off to Uni, or start a trade, start a business...do all those back in Canada if he wants to

[wowchuck]

she's already had 800k which amounts to 13 years worth of child maintenance payments.

I would tell her from afar that's all she gets

[ggt]

Everything seemed to be going ok until I learned, around beginning of Apr. 2013, all money was gone and now she was asking for 400k...

You were a great find for a poor Thai family...thank you for your contribution to their welfare...snookering foreigners is a cottage industry in Thailand...

From the Thais perspective...you are a cash-cow...that needs to be milked...

NOW RUN!

Edited April 21, 2016 by ggt

[khunPer]

Sad story, and any hindsight advises won't help here. A few things I can add after reading your opening post – based on my experience and knowledge from more than 10-years here and father to a now 10-old half-Thai daughter, and knowledge from Western friend's marriage to Thais:

You as foreigner, will not have much, if any, power to decide for your son when staying up village, especially when not being fully backed-up by the mom; the latter being difficult for her, due to respect for her parents and elder relatives. The more you try, the more you may only be considered as a "stupid farang". The culture and way-of-things – the Thai way of thinking – will be too different, so either you'll need to accept the terms up there, or have you son moved out.

Your name as father on Birth Certificate don't give you any rights at all in it's own, but being married gives you parental responsibility as father and half custody. At divorce your future ex-wife can sign-over full custody to you, if she freely wish so. The question is, if – as "grumpyoldman" says in post #5 – that your son will be a proxy for you supporting a Thai family for the coming many years. Your changes in Court as foreigner to win custody from a Thai mom will presumably be low, but not impossible, and can take long time. The question is, what is best for the mom – and a difficult part here is also a question of "loosing face", which sometimes overrides common sense. In some cases it may be a relief not to have a baby to take care of. I know it sounds hard, but instead of them playing the proxy card against you, you can say, that if you don't get custody and can take your son to Canada, you will not support him; or only the minimum Thai-support of 3,000 or up to 5,000 baht a month. I know a case with a Thai family playing that card against another Thai family, after split up (nothing settled yet); and I had a Western friend doing same, and he got custody accepted.

Your son is so young that I think your feeling of difficulty in contact may change by time, especially when moving him out of village.

In you son's best interest, kindergarten and school away from a rural Thai village will be beneficial, but also being bi-lingual is a benefit – either from living in Thailand or moving to Canada with mom, if that become the solution. I would not be concerned about health in village, unless you know about some problems.

Sometimes – or perhaps rather, often – a lump sum of money can clear a lot of problems in Thailand.

I can add, that my daughter spend her first 2½ year in village with her grand parents – that was at that time the best option for her instead of lot of commuting, and I felt it was good for her to live in countryside and in contact with animals and nature, and lots of caring family-members, who got time for her – that is a very normal solution in Thailand; we don't regret that at all. Easy to move when they are that young, and from Kindergarten age education matters.

It's extremely difficult to have an opinion about if it's better to find a way to stay together, and move son and mom/wife to Canada, or split – some says it not good to stay together because of child/children only, others seem to think it worked (may not be working well) – I think only yourself can decide...

I wish you all the best for the future.

[BritManToo]

Gosh how many times do we hear this? YOU decided to bring a new life into the world- the only thing as a father is to give your child the best opportunities in the world- that's it- nothing more. What else you do does not matter. Money is irrelevant.

As far as I can see it's the woman's choice to bring a new life into the world or not. Her body, her choice.

Morning after pill is 40bht, available at all Thai pharmacies, so no excuse.

The guy plays little if any part in the process, and when she want's one, usually any guy will do.

Nobody ever asked me to participate in any decision, and I've produced more than five, up to them.

Not bothered about 'best opportunities' either.

Too many old dinosaurs posting outdated rubbish.

Edited April 21, 2016 by BritManToo

[stoneyboy]

Gosh how many times do we hear this? YOU decided to bring a new life into the world- the only thing as a father is to give your child the best opportunities in the world- that's it- nothing more. What else you do does not matter. Money is irrelevant.

It's going to be very tricky.

Good luck

Money is everything, you can't do a damn thing without it.

Kid is better off with the mother and her family when he is younger. I doubt the falang has many relatives back in Canada, probably working all the time so not so many friends, especially female ones, and what's childcare cost in Canada?

OP can save his pennies, make sure the kid when older can go off to Uni, or start a trade, start a business...do all those back in Canada if he wants to

And have a child who speaks only Thai,knows nothing of his father and is accustomed to rural village life in Phetchabun.

I personally fail to see how that will benefit the OP or his child.

[laolover88]

Time, I think, to know what OP actually wants and is capable of!!

[RedQualia]

Dunno that I have anything helpful to say at all, but maybe. Mostly, highly entertained by your post because you see, I also had a girlfriend from the countryside around Phetchabun, 10-12 years ago. Charming lass, dirt poor country gal. I was quite taken with her. She seemed to me quite beautiful, and completely unaware that she was so. Visited her a few times over the course of several months, and by and by she wanted to marry, come to stay with me in the USA, have the happy home and all that good stuff. And it all sounded and looked sorta pretty good to me, and so I was somewhat game. "But before you come to the USA, teelak, we will try traveling somewhere a bit closer to home to see what you think."

So I took her to Malaysia. She couldn't stand it! She was a Thai gal who had only lived in Thailand and spoke only Thai. There was no Thai language in Malaysia. No Thai TV. No Thai street signs. She couldn't read the menus in the restaurants. She couldn't talk to anyone... Not even a taxi driver. Nothing at all was familiar to her. Way, way, way, way, WAY too much culture shock for her. And she became bitter and angry about this. And that was when I learned how very deeply angry she could become. The first time I had seen venom shooting from her eyes.

Upon landing at the airport in Bangkok and clearing immigration, she immediately took off, leaving me there alone. No goodbyes or anything, still very much angry. I returned to the states.

She was quiet for a while after that, but by and by came around via the internet to tell me how sorry she was, how much she still loved me, that she would never behave that way again, and so on. And I knew it was all true because I could see the tears rolling down her cheeks through the wonders of video chat. Yeah, yeah, I thought.

But I did resolve to visit her again. And so I did. And we had a good couple of days in village in Phetchabun, visiting family and friends and neighbors and all that kind of thing. Not too many glints of hatred in her eyes. Wait and see...

And so I took her to Chiang Mai. Which was good. By the time we got into the sorngtaew at the Chiang Mai train station, she had refilled herself with all the hatred she could find, and the venom was once again shooting from her eyes. At which point, I gave her a few thousand baht, and told her it wasn't going to work and that she should go back to Phetchabun. She didn't go right away... She came to my hotel the next morning to give me that "I'm sorry" speech again and it will be all better, and... and... and... I told her no. That she knew as well as I did that it wasn't going to work, that she needed to go home and that I wouldn't see her again. She smiled slightly, and expressed agreement, and then she left. And that was that.

So, to the extent that anything useful has been said here, I think that maybe first, it might be that gals from Phetchabun area tend to look quite nice. Second, don't go marrying any of them too quickly. And third, before you take your love to France or Canada or the USA or Brazil or wherever, take them somewhere nearby to see how they fare. Malaysia? Or Vietnam, perhaps. The Philippines. Anywhere that's sufficiently different to cause her to have to deal with culture shock.

Or, in the case of OP, perhaps take the wife and kid to Canada and make sure she has the most alien experience possible, with the expectation that she will want to return home sooner rather than later, while leaving the child in Canada.

But maybe I've said nothing helpful at all. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, in any case.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

My God! what a mess,i sympathy,but more fool you for getting married so quickly with no prior knowledge of this vampire.Run away son,run a way.

[kennypowers]

Here's exactly what you should do:

1. Stay in Thailand and move, with her and your son, away from the village and into a condo in a major city, say Chiang Mai or Bangkok. She will be a different person away from the influence of her family and small-mindedness of the village. This is the only way to give the possibility of being a family a proper go.

2. Teach for a while just to keep money coming in.

3. Go back to basics. Enjoy your son together: days out, teaching him together, swimming, parks, etc. Loads to do in BKK and Chiang Mai for free.

4. After a while, she'll see the how positive your influence on her son is and what a great Dad you are (I'm sure you will be).

5. Introduce the idea of moving to Canada again. Start the paperwork.

You might never have the most romantic marriage in the world, or always agree. But you have the possibility of being great friends and making a great life for your son. He is the most important thing and will bring you both huge joy if you make sacrifices. There's a line in a country song, I forget which, "It's not love, but it's not bad". As you said, you can't separate a mother and her child, and you don't want to be absent from his life and see him grow up in a village.

Do what's necessary: Keep the peace, move away from the village, earn some money, give it a go as a family, get to know her all over again without the influence of her family, do the paperwork, move to Canada.

[ozyjon]

eventually all come to Canada together

Remember, poor farm girl, eats rice, vegetables, insects,

frogs (shall i go on) so where in Canada can she buy

these delicacy, and what TV channels have Thai ghost

soaps she can spend all day watching, and that white

stuff outside, snow ? They never leave mama.

Manarack is right and also is Katipo, both sensible replies.

[BritManToo]

and what TV channels have Thai ghost

soaps she can spend all day watching, and that white

stuff outside, snow ? They never leave mama.

Thai Tv is available anywhere that has internet.

Channels 3,5, and 7 stream, all the soaps are on Youtube.

[mickyboy]

do you really think getting her to canada change things she a village girl and familyperson she come to canada she take every thing and go back home or she go off with someone with biiger wallet my friend had same thing why do people fall for this honey trap and make the rest look stupid

[mickyboy]

Where did you meet her ?

i met this girl from up north and she even had farang boyfriend for 2 years we started talng then she said if you look after me and my family you can have what you want i thought family her 2 kids oh no it was her 2 kids and her mother father who where in there late 50 is i said why dont they work to ill they need money for medical treatment as wel so now we up to5 people also would be possible tolend her money for her sister car loan as she cant pay it now as husband left her i said what about your boyfriend for 2 years she said not love him now he no look after my family i said you got some cheek she was for real and said i must go she said you no want me then then i said your lovely not to upset her and she was very beautiful she 32 im 62 as i went she said goodbye and i said goodluck nobody was going to mug me for sure they have no morals some these girls at all

[BritManToo]

Where did you meet her ?

i met this girl from up north and she even had farang boyfriend for 2 years we started talng then she said if you look after me and my family you can have what you want i thought family her 2 kids oh no it was her 2 kids and her mother father who where in there late 50 is i said why dont they work to ill they need money for medical treatment as wel so now we up to5 people also would be possible tolend her money for her sister car loan as she cant pay it now as husband left her i said what about your boyfriend for 2 years she said not love him now he no look after my family i said you got some cheek she was for real and said i must go she said you no want me then then i said your lovely not to upset her and she was very beautiful she 32 im 62 as i went she said goodbye and i said goodluck nobody was going to mug me for sure they have no morals some these girls at all

Sounds OK on a PAYG basis. I'd have been good for a couple of nights.

[Dumbastheycome]

I'm sorry to read about your situation. the first thoughts that struck me was "you have got to stop blaming yourself'....you may be responsible for your son....but NOT to blame for him. We all have situations that we wished we had handled differently (or so it seems when looking back) but in time I have discovered that those very same events have turned out to be my greatest assets in life. In fact, I will go one step further, I would not change them now, even if I could.

On a final note, due to me Alcoholism (now sober 15 years) my children don't have much time for me either. When I first realized this I felt life was not worth living....then a GOOD friend took me aside one day and told me straight to my face to stop feeling sorry for myself and making myself out to be one of life's victims. He said..."if you really love your children you will want them to be happy....even if that happiness is added to by them not being in contact with you". It took a very long time for that message to sink in and to this day we do not meet with each other.....but....I will always be available for them should they ever reach out. That is all I can do for today, tomorrow is a different day and I hope I will be in the same frame of mind....I know I will though.

God Bless you and hope it all works out.....that has been my greatest source of strength....my HP (Higher Power).

PS.,.,.,If you do the right thing...you will get the right result. Any other outcome is impossible. I have no advice for you, I can only share with you my own experience.

There is no "advice" of merit that can be given. Go with what the heartfelt says. Whatever you choose to do is yours. Whatever that is is what you will carry. Best outcomes for self are not limited to self. Life is an event , not a recipe.

[Tony125]

This is your post from last June 2015 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/835275-marriage-long-distance/#entry9546497 when you were in Canada talking about how she cheated on you and what should you do and where to get a lawyer because she told you that she was filing for divorce and you were banned from returning to Thailand ( I told you you weren't ) . Seems like instead of doing that you just went back to village spent all your money and here we are 8 months later same oh same oh. Its like what 3 times you returned to Canada to work save money to bring them over but still have not even once started the paperwork to sponsor them or used a law firm in Thailand ( I PM you at least 3 ) to find out your rights and advise what you could do.

Now you say you have no money for legal advice and what should you do. How about going back to Canada , work and save your money , send over 5 to 10 thousand baht a month for kiids support Keep a record in case you need to show you never abandoned them and support them. Then file paperwork and bring them over . If not just keep supporting your son andd move on with your life.

[williamgeorgeallen]

ok i got married twice. why? because i am a slow learner. getting married is a stupid thing to do (those here on a marriage visa are going to disagree) anyway getting divorced is a waste of time, i didnt the second time as still being married will stop me from doing it again. next thing is paying the mum for sole custody. she will have a price, otherwise it is a matter of taking her and your kid back to canada and keeping the kid there. western countries are generally helpful towards single parents. good luck with it all. i was luck the mum from my 2 kids turned out to be worth staying with, was hard work in the beginning however.

[ericthai]

Stay married,play the game and move them to Canada.Take it from there!Maybe you decide to stay married over there,if not, the courts may be more inclined to let you keep the child in case she wants to move back to Thailand.

Not an easy problem to solve but getting her away from family influence will definetly be in your favor.

Stop giving money!!!!!!!

How good is her English? Could she go to the store and buy something in Canada without you? If not, then I would not move her from Thailand to Canada. She is going to be lonely and home sick for her family, food and weather. She will feel trapped if she cant go out by herself. I would look at getting custody of you son. Tell your wife you are going to put him in school in Canada so he has a good education and you will bring him to Thailand every year for a few months for her to visit. Even if you had no plans on returning. As stated the court are better in Thailand than in the USA or Canada when getting a divorce I know two guys that got custody one went back to the USA and the other back to Australia. Good Luck!!

[likeke]

Another sad story of a guy who didn't do his homework before going to a foreign country to live/work. The internet is full of similar stories of a a foreigner marrying too fast and getting over his head. Congratulations, you made it. You are now officially a Thailand statistic. Those of you readers should take heed this situation because it could happen to you if you don't pay attention. OP, you did everything wrong! A sucker is born every day.

[Ulic]

It is a mistake to bring your wife to Canada unless you think things are going to work out.

It will take about two and half years. Once she gets here as her sponsor you are responsible

for all her costs if things go pear shaped. Apartment, dental, health, food, etc, etc. The

two can live as cheaply as one is out the window. Your best bet if you want your child

to be with you is to negotiate for that outcome. Appeal to her to act in your/her sons best

interest in getting an education and upbringing in Canada. Has he been registered with

the Canadian embassy? Does he have a Canadian passport. This should happen

regardless on how you proceed. (He should get a Thai passport as well.) You will

probably have to make a financial contribution to your wife to get her to sign over sole

parental rights. You have shown yourself to be a family cash cow. 1 million baht for

wedding/ wife. Car deposit, 400k house renovation. A sporadic income for the family

but substantial amounts. I do know girls who have allowed the foreign father of their

children to leave with them. I know girls who have there child being raised by their

family up north with the father sending 10k baht a month to the family. They continue

to work in Pattaya or Phuket enjoying both the money a life style. Plus looking for the

next catch. The living expenses of the entire family back in the village is covered by the

10k. Not much expense raising a 3-4 year old in the village. Think hard, your wife sounds

lazy and unmotivated to work. You know in Canada it is Mum and Dad working to get

ahead. Certainly as soon as children are in school. If your wife comes to Canada it will

soon be, wife misses family, she does not want to work and fighting will escalate.

I think it will turn into a nightmare unless she is committed to building a life in Canada.

As much as it is repulsive, buying your son from your wife (300-500K baht) may be the

best solution. If she says no then 3,500k a month. No big steady windfall amount every

month. If she realises that will be the extent of your support she may see things your way.

Anything above 3,500 k a month just goes to the family. Just my opinion, best of luck with

your decision.

[thaiduncankk]

You left 800k in the bank account of a poor Isaan girl you had only known a few months? Respect for coming out and owning your mistakes though.

To be honest, I don't think your wife would manage in Canada. After a couple of months she would want to return home. She is a farm girl, with what appears to be no inclination to work or better herself, who would quickly get bored in Canada. Nothing would make her happier than staying at home with her family and her 'Lukrung' baby. You cannot change this.

In my opinion your best option is to go back to Canada and get your life back on track financially. Your child is obviously important to you, and you want to be in his life. The best way I can see this happening is to send out a monthly stipend which YOU decide YOU can afford. Whatever it is, it will be enough to ensure the family keeps giving you access when you visit them.

Unfortunately I can't see a way for you to be with your child 24/7 unless either a) you work as a teacher up there, or you can set yourself up in Bangkok with some other type of work and can convince your wife to join you there.

Many a man has been ruined both emotionally and financially by similar situations. Your greatest strength is that you have shown yourself to have awareness of your current predicament, Don't lose sight of this, no matter what happens.

Being an affluent man of the world, I am sure you can point the OP in the right direction ?

I am sure, you, and Mr Big Licks, Don Mega, can sort out this Thailand problem of finding Mrs Right ?

[F4UCorsair]

"Advice - is it time to give up?"

YES!!!

[wooloomooloo]

Repeat until successful. Forget about the nationality of your intended loved one, it either happens or it doesn't.

[akentryan]

I have a Thai female neighbor who was living with an Italian. They had two children and the kids had Thai and Italian passports. Similar situation, he was being sucked dry of money by a greedy woman. He told his wife he was taking the kids to the beach one morning. Instead he took them to the airport and boarded a plane to Italy. No more money will be sent to the wife. She now has a German BF who supports her and never mentions the children. Stop all payments of money - that is the only influence you have left. Work on getting passports if you can but it will probably be too costly. You are already alienated from your son as he is being raised Thai. When he becomes older (late teens at a minimum) you may try to restablish a relationship. Work on restructuring your own life after being suckered by an cruel woman - happens all the time here.

[thaiduncankk]

Where did you meet her ?

i met this girl from up north and she even had farang boyfriend for 2 years we started talng then she said if you look after me and my family you can have what you want i thought family her 2 kids oh no it was her 2 kids and her mother father who where in there late 50 is i said why dont they work to ill they need money for medical treatment as wel so now we up to5 people also would be possible tolend her money for her sister car loan as she cant pay it now as husband left her i said what about your boyfriend for 2 years she said not love him now he no look after my family i said you got some cheek she was for real and said i must go she said you no want me then then i said your lovely not to upset her and she was very beautiful she 32 im 62 as i went she said goodbye and i said goodluck nobody was going to mug me for sure they have no morals some these girls at all

She was 32 and you were 62 and you question HER morals ?

Did you expect a sex slave because you had more money than her, despite her being young enough to be your granddaughter ?

[manarak]

Where did you meet her ?

i met this girl from up north and she even had farang boyfriend for 2 years we started talng then she said if you look after me and my family you can have what you want i thought family her 2 kids oh no it was her 2 kids and her mother father who where in there late 50 is i said why dont they work to ill they need money for medical treatment as wel so now we up to5 people also would be possible tolend her money for her sister car loan as she cant pay it now as husband left her i said what about your boyfriend for 2 years she said not love him now he no look after my family i said you got some cheek she was for real and said i must go she said you no want me then then i said your lovely not to upset her and she was very beautiful she 32 im 62 as i went she said goodbye and i said goodluck nobody was going to mug me for sure they have no morals some these girls at all

She was 32 and you were 62 and you question HER morals ?

Did you expect a sex slave because you had more money than her, despite her being young enough to be your granddaughter ?

what a disgusting post.

[MobileContent]

To the OP it was already discussed internally that 800k will be blown off from the 1 million Baht as soon you are off on your flight to Canada again. The 200k was maybe used to pay of some debts of the parents.

Walk away and get your life back in order and stop all support.

Your lady will find a new sucker in no time.