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Obama arrives in Saudi Arabia amid US ‘terror bill’ debate


webfact

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^^

What's undeniable is the uneasy power sharing between the House of Saud and the Wahabbi religious leaders. As with Pakistan the followers of the latter no doubt infiltrate and hold some influence with the former. I suspect that dwindling oil revenues, ISIS in combination with a monarch who for once desires reform may lead to changes for the better. The Panama papers divulged details of accounts held by Saudi Royals, seeing as they control the Country the only reason I can think of for said accounts is hedging their bets if they face an uprising to depose them. Of course Saudi public opinion will be handled in a delicate manner, for this reason the true picture will no doubt be hard to come by.

The US hasn't been happy with SA for a long time. Most recently due to their actions to try to kill the new oil producers in the US. I've read some reports the Iran deal was done to punish SA (and Russia). Iran is pumping a bunch of oil and SA isn't happy about this. Their economy is hurting for sure.

As for religion? It's what causing the mess in the Middle East. Pure and simple. IMHO. wai2.gif

I'm not sure the Saudis were aiming primarily at US oil producers, rather they were trying to restrict oil revenues to Iran, though they were no doubt also mighty unhappy with the U.S perceived capitulation to Iran on the nuclear talks. Make of this what you will but behind the scenes I suspect the Saudis and GCC are already very active in Syria/Iraq and are working hand in glove with Israel. The source is admittedly fringe, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/arab-troops-training/

Juxtapose the timing of this with Obama being in Saudi Arabia.

Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.

Edited by stillbornagain
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^^

What's undeniable is the uneasy power sharing between the House of Saud and the Wahabbi religious leaders. As with Pakistan the followers of the latter no doubt infiltrate and hold some influence with the former. I suspect that dwindling oil revenues, ISIS in combination with a monarch who for once desires reform may lead to changes for the better. The Panama papers divulged details of accounts held by Saudi Royals, seeing as they control the Country the only reason I can think of for said accounts is hedging their bets if they face an uprising to depose them. Of course Saudi public opinion will be handled in a delicate manner, for this reason the true picture will no doubt be hard to come by.

The US hasn't been happy with SA for a long time. Most recently due to their actions to try to kill the new oil producers in the US. I've read some reports the Iran deal was done to punish SA (and Russia). Iran is pumping a bunch of oil and SA isn't happy about this. Their economy is hurting for sure.

As for religion? It's what causing the mess in the Middle East. Pure and simple. IMHO. wai2.gif

I'm not sure the Saudis were aiming primarily at US oil producers, rather they were trying to restrict oil revenues to Iran, though they were no doubt also mighty unhappy with the U.S perceived capitulation to Iran on the nuclear talks. Make of this what you will but behind the scenes I suspect the Saudis and GCC are already very active in Syria/Iraq and are working hand in glove with Israel. The source is admittedly fringe, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/arab-troops-training/

Juxtapose the timing of this with Obama being in Saudi Arabia.

Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.

Good post this, thanks.

Do you also reckon that the Saudi government is basically a puppet controlled by Washington ? To me, Saudi Arabia is constantly obeying Washington. And if Saudi Arabia were to stop obeying ? Well, Washington will threaten Saudi Arabia.

Washington will simply say (behind closed doors, off-course), "look Saudi Arabia, we can easily do to you what we did to Saddam back in 2003, we can easily invade you, remove the puppet government, and draft in a new puppet government, a government that will obey us". "Also, you Saudi government, you were NOT democratically elected (nor was Saddam) and you carry out human rights abuse in your country (just like Saddam), and there's little freedom of speech in your country (just like Saddam's Iraq). We can easily sell this war (get the general public in America to agree with it) to the American people, on the grounds that this is being done to remove a bad regime, and YOU are a bad regime".

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Good post this, thanks.

Do you also reckon that the Saudi government is basically a puppet controlled by Washington ? To me, Saudi Arabia is constantly obeying Washington. And if Saudi Arabia were to stop obeying ? Well, Washington will threaten Saudi Arabia.

Washington will simply say (behind closed doors, off-course), "look Saudi Arabia, we can easily do to you what we did to Saddam back in 2003, we can easily invade you, remove the puppet government, and draft in a new puppet government, a government that will obey us". "Also, you Saudi government, you were NOT democratically elected (nor was Saddam) and you carry out human rights abuse in your country (just like Saddam), and there's little freedom of speech in your country (just like Saddam's Iraq). We can easily sell this war (get the general public in America to agree with it) to the American people, on the grounds that this is being done to remove a bad regime, and YOU are a bad regime".

Given that the latest poll I found showed that 52 percent of Americans thought the last Iraqi war was a failure vs. 37 percent who thought it was a success, I doubt it. Give George W. Bush credit for killing the America appetite for massive foreign adventures. You also have to remember that Mecca is located in Saudi Arabia. Roughly 1.6 billion muslims won't be happy about an invastion and occupation.. Also, while their fondness for the royal family is lessening, Saudi citizens have had their minds poisoned by indoctrination in the vile version of Islam that Saudi Arabia has promoted. We would be surrounded by a very hostile population. Especially given the fact that the USA is Israel's #1 ally.

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Thanks for the above article. Good bit of writing, that is.

Okay, a quote from the above article "Saudi Arabia has escalated its involvement in the war in Syria and engaged directly in an air war in Yemen. Both ventures have failed". Well, I think everybody can see that.



And, "The Saudi leaders are more or less openly saying that they are waiting for the departure of President Obama from the White House to resume their status of most favoured ally of the US."
I think Hillary Clinton will carry on where Obama left. Saudi Arabia's government will carry on being a puppet of Washington's. What about Trump being in charge ? With Trump, Trump might not put that much effort to try to hide the issue of the Saudi government being a puppet.

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^^

What's undeniable is the uneasy power sharing between the House of Saud and the Wahabbi religious leaders. As with Pakistan the followers of the latter no doubt infiltrate and hold some influence with the former. I suspect that dwindling oil revenues, ISIS in combination with a monarch who for once desires reform may lead to changes for the better. The Panama papers divulged details of accounts held by Saudi Royals, seeing as they control the Country the only reason I can think of for said accounts is hedging their bets if they face an uprising to depose them. Of course Saudi public opinion will be handled in a delicate manner, for this reason the true picture will no doubt be hard to come by.

The US hasn't been happy with SA for a long time. Most recently due to their actions to try to kill the new oil producers in the US. I've read some reports the Iran deal was done to punish SA (and Russia). Iran is pumping a bunch of oil and SA isn't happy about this. Their economy is hurting for sure.

As for religion? It's what causing the mess in the Middle East. Pure and simple. IMHO. wai2.gif

I'm not sure the Saudis were aiming primarily at US oil producers, rather they were trying to restrict oil revenues to Iran, though they were no doubt also mighty unhappy with the U.S perceived capitulation to Iran on the nuclear talks. Make of this what you will but behind the scenes I suspect the Saudis and GCC are already very active in Syria/Iraq and are working hand in glove with Israel. The source is admittedly fringe, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/arab-troops-training/

Juxtapose the timing of this with Obama being in Saudi Arabia.

Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.
How deluded you are. The Russians lost their main generals in Syria due to a massive car bomb, supposedly driven onto a base where only Russians were allowed. If you think a bunch of untrained Jihaddists could do this then go ahead, it was Arab special forces. Days later Putin announced the withdrawal of Russian forces. The Russians have lost Syria to the extent they are now supporting the Kurds in order to keep a foothold in the region. Incidentally Russian troops are poorly trained ill equipped clowns, the Saudis have been training special forces armed to the teeth with state of the art weapons since 2005.
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Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.

I think this is a great video to watch regarding Syria. Per the video, Saudi Arabia has been sending money and weapons to the rebels via Turkey and Jordan.

And now seem to be wanting to send troops. Perhaps to counter the troops Iran already has there. A religions proxy war at it's worst.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-sends-troops-and-fighter-jets-to-military-base-in-turkey-ahead-of-intervention-against-a6871611.html

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The US hasn't been happy with SA for a long time. Most recently due to their actions to try to kill the new oil producers in the US. I've read some reports the Iran deal was done to punish SA (and Russia). Iran is pumping a bunch of oil and SA isn't happy about this. Their economy is hurting for sure.

As for religion? It's what causing the mess in the Middle East. Pure and simple. IMHO. wai2.gif

I'm not sure the Saudis were aiming primarily at US oil producers, rather they were trying to restrict oil revenues to Iran, though they were no doubt also mighty unhappy with the U.S perceived capitulation to Iran on the nuclear talks. Make of this what you will but behind the scenes I suspect the Saudis and GCC are already very active in Syria/Iraq and are working hand in glove with Israel. The source is admittedly fringe, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/arab-troops-training/

Juxtapose the timing of this with Obama being in Saudi Arabia.

Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.
How deluded you are. The Russians lost their main generals in Syria due to a massive car bomb, supposedly driven onto a base where only Russians were allowed. If you think a bunch of untrained Jihaddists could do this then go ahead, it was Arab special forces. Days later Putin announced the withdrawal of Russian forces. The Russians have lost Syria to the extent they are now supporting the Kurds in order to keep a foothold in the region. Incidentally Russian troops are poorly trained ill equipped clowns, the Saudis have been training special forces armed to the teeth with state of the art weapons since 2005.

Some people never learn. Remember shock and awe and how the Iraqis wouldn't even know how to resist the Americans. And it was only because of the Iranians that Iraqis were able to resist. Maybe someday you'll learn how not to despise your opponents in battle. That's what distinguishes good strategists from the wishful thinkers. And didn't Isis recently abandon Palmyra? It wasn't those mythical Arab elite troops that did it. And last I heard, Aleppo was on the way to falling to the Syrian army. Clearly, you're channeling reports from opposite land.

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Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.

I think this is a great video to watch regarding Syria. Per the video, Saudi Arabia has been sending money and weapons to the rebels via Turkey and Jordan.

And now seem to be wanting to send troops. Perhaps to counter the troops Iran already has there. A religions proxy war at it's worst.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-sends-troops-and-fighter-jets-to-military-base-in-turkey-ahead-of-intervention-against-a6871611.html

These are the people that Saudi Arabia supports. In their ideology they're indistinguishable at best from Al Qaeda. At worst...Isil.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jabhat-al-nusra-blows-up-armenian-church-in-deir-el-zour-a-savage-blow-that-echoes-through-armenian-9852372.html

Also, if you read that article it seems to say, that it will be Saudi jets and Turkish troops who will be invading. If that happens. Not Saudi ground troops. And given Turkey's conduct in the past, most likely this is more a war about eliminating the Kurds, the most effective fighters against Isis, rather than about attacking Assad.

Also, it mentions the Free Syrian army. The group supported by the CIA. If ever a feckless assemblage of armed men didn't deserve the appellation "army", this one is it. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016/01/04/can-the-free-syrian-army-get-back-on-its-feet-after-russias-intervention

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Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.

I think this is a great video to watch regarding Syria. Per the video, Saudi Arabia has been sending money and weapons to the rebels via Turkey and Jordan.

And now seem to be wanting to send troops. Perhaps to counter the troops Iran already has there. A religions proxy war at it's worst.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-sends-troops-and-fighter-jets-to-military-base-in-turkey-ahead-of-intervention-against-a6871611.html

These are the people that Saudi Arabia supports. In their ideology they're indistinguishable at best from Al Qaeda. At worst...Isil.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jabhat-al-nusra-blows-up-armenian-church-in-deir-el-zour-a-savage-blow-that-echoes-through-armenian-9852372.html

Also, if you read that article it seems to say, that it will be Saudi jets and Turkish troops who will be invading. If that happens. Not Saudi ground troops. And given Turkey's conduct in the past, most likely this is more a war about eliminating the Kurds, the most effective fighters against Isis, rather than about attacking Assad.

Also, it mentions the Free Syrian army. The group supported by the CIA. If ever a feckless assemblage of armed men didn't deserve the appellation "army", this one is it. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016/01/04/can-the-free-syrian-army-get-back-on-its-feet-after-russias-intervention

It's a mess, for sure. But according to your article, the CIA stopped supporting the FSA back in October:

Western countries have also been reluctant to support rebel groups, with the United States putting an end to its "train and equip" program in October because of fears that arms could fall into extremist hands.

As for Aleppo, it's easy to win a town when you carpet bomb everything. Innocent civilians included. Something the West has tried to avoid. Agreed, that strategy didn't seem to work out very well either. A real mess. With too many foreign powers involved. They should all leave. Iranian, Lebanese, Turkish, Russian and SA.

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The US hasn't been happy with SA for a long time. Most recently due to their actions to try to kill the new oil producers in the US. I've read some reports the Iran deal was done to punish SA (and Russia). Iran is pumping a bunch of oil and SA isn't happy about this. Their economy is hurting for sure.

As for religion? It's what causing the mess in the Middle East. Pure and simple. IMHO. wai2.gif
I'm not sure the Saudis were aiming primarily at US oil producers, rather they were trying to restrict oil revenues to Iran, though they were no doubt also mighty unhappy with the U.S perceived capitulation to Iran on the nuclear talks. Make of this what you will but behind the scenes I suspect the Saudis and GCC are already very active in Syria/Iraq and are working hand in glove with Israel. The source is admittedly fringe, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/arab-troops-training/

Juxtapose the timing of this with Obama being in Saudi Arabia.
Any chance of the Saudis getting involved in Syria went south once the Russians got involved. They don't dare face anything that resembles real armed forces And does anyone else recall their bizarre anouncement of a Moslem coalition? A coalition that several of the alleged member states were surprised to find they were members of? If there are 3 things you can count of from the Saudis it's incompetence, cowardice and irresolution. Despite overwhelming firepower and short supply lines their armed farces can't even manage to knock out the Houthis. However, they have given Al Qaeda a nice foothold in southern Yemen.
How deluded you are. The Russians lost their main generals in Syria due to a massive car bomb, supposedly driven onto a base where only Russians were allowed. If you think a bunch of untrained Jihaddists could do this then go ahead, it was Arab special forces. Days later Putin announced the withdrawal of Russian forces. The Russians have lost Syria to the extent they are now supporting the Kurds in order to keep a foothold in the region. Incidentally Russian troops are poorly trained ill equipped clowns, the Saudis have been training special forces armed to the teeth with state of the art weapons since 2005.

Some people never learn. Remember shock and awe and how the Iraqis wouldn't even know how to resist the Americans. And it was only because of the Iranians that Iraqis were able to resist. Maybe someday you'll learn how not to despise your opponents in battle. That's what distinguishes good strategists from the wishful thinkers. And didn't Isis recently abandon Palmyra? It wasn't those mythical Arab elite troops that did it. And last I heard, Aleppo was on the way to falling to the Syrian army. Clearly, you're channeling reports from opposite land.


It's all a case of who do you believe. I'm prepared to be wrong if proven so, I trust you are too. Not despising or underestimating your enemies, cuts both ways. This is my last post on the merits of the Saudi military seeing as this thread is supposed to be about US-Saudi diplomacy.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/consequences-refusing-face-reality/ Edited by Scott
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