Crackdown On Foreign Teachers

[kevbap]

Does this mean that english teachers will now flock to Thailand and earn as much here as at home?

i think not. i understand the need to regulate who teachers the children of Thailand, but my tefl cert. is no longer good enough here? or did i miss something??

[farangnoi]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

Read my signature!!

[PeaceBlondie]

Great News

Thailand should not be hiring native speaking English teachers. They should be using Thai teacher and people who speak English fluently as a second language.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

To which rathole of the former British empire are you referring? In the colonies called USA, we had to take courses in English (including grammar and pronunciation) for twelve years, and more advanced courses for a BA. But if you mean the pedantic rules of grammar, and all the nomenclature for the subjunctive past perfect continuous passive, I would not have been being bothered to have been learning that.

Our Thai ajarn with a Thai Ed.D. in English passed around a list of more than 20 items, of the passive verbs to our M4 class. I taught conversation better.

[toptuan]

And please tell me you precious native speakers: how many languages do you speak. I reckon that 60% of the native teachers here in Thailand have never ever mastered another language and are therefor less suited to teach ESL English!

Thai is the ninth language I have formally studied, four of which I fluently speak. The others, I can read and write. Don't sell your audience so short.

Edited November 4, 2006 by toptuan

[rexall]

Does this mean that english teachers will now flock to Thailand and earn as much here as at home?

i think not. i understand the need to regulate who teachers the children of Thailand, but my tefl cert. is no longer good enough here? or did i miss something??

Sat 04 Nov 06, 6:00 p.m.

Hi Kevbap, all,

There is some kind of foggy, information gap going on here that I guess I am not smart enough to figure out. And this isn't a swipe at you, and I am not ringing in here with any strong opinions regarding credentials one way or the other.

However, if you don't have a work permit and teaching license, then it is my understanding that you are not legal. And if you do have a work permit, I curious about how you got it if you don't have a BA in English or a BA in anything + a TEFL Certificate.

If your employer led you to believe that you could work legally without these documents, they were not telling the truth. At least that is my understanding. If anyone has different information, I would be interested in hearing it.

Aloha,

Rex

Edited November 4, 2006 by rexall

[bkkandrew]

Have you spent time in Thailand ? Have you heard Thais speaking English?

Any Thai that can speak English fluently will already have or be applying for a job that is far higher paid than any English language school is prepared to offer.

That would be akin to expecting English speakers to learn Thai from a farang who is fluent in Thai.

Any farang fluent in Thai will be able to hold a high paying job in this country as well.

The reason they hire native speakers is so that Thai students can learn correct pronunciation and learn something of the western culture. .

Quite so. As a decent speaker of Thai and an English native I would agree that I would only be tempted by B250000+ to do any kind of work. In addition, I don't have a Bachelor's Degree, so teaching would seem impossible. Also I hate the idea of teaching rather than doing something, so that wouldn't work either...

That's the problem of many farangs. They LOVE Thailand, they LOVE the Thais, they absolutely WANT to live here, they DO enjoy the easy going life style here. Just one little thing should be like at home, the salary. I wonder whether all these overpaid long noses realize how much less funny and comfortable their life would be if they had to accept Thai conditions. I wonder if they still would love this country and their people if they had to live and work like them.

Hmmm.

I have just measured my nose and am happy to report that is a quite normal length...

I also happen to reside in a Thai area and spend most of my time with Thais, including all work time..

Since you are so keen to identify other people's problems, perhaps I could be as bold as to point out one obvious one of yours:

You have no idea what you are talking about!

[Chang_paarp]

Ring ring

Hello, Smallsvile University.

Herro Tis Kun Somchai, Barn Nork, Thailnd Ministry Education, want check academic lecord for Lichad Lite.

What??

Tis Kun Somchai, Barn Nork, Thailnd Ministry Education, want check academic lecord for Lichad Lite.

What??

Tis Kun Somchai, Barn Nork, Thailnd Ministry Education, want check academic lecord for Lichad Lite.

I'm sorry you will have to ring back in the morning when the office is attended.

When that?

In about 8 hours, it is midnight here, I'm the night porter and janitor.

OK bye.

Bye

Kun boss will you authorise overtime to check this transcript?

[PeaceBlondie]

rexall, there are labour ministry offices granting real work permits to non-degree-holding farang. And there is at least one labour ministry office that said it had never granted a work permit to a teacher, in all its years of existence. They said that when two baccalauerates with TEFL certs stood before them. Your mileage may vary.

I'm fluent in two languages, but you needn't be fluent in more than English, to teach English in Thailand. Nit noi of Thai helps nit noi, and that's about it, above prathom level.

[Maigo6]

I would imagine there are many Teachers who really do have the students education in mind when they enter the classroom, but there are those that also enter the classroom to nurse last nights hangover.

Some may ask why on earth someone would risk working with no work permit for such low pay, its not like the money is worth the risk, so why the attraction?

What is it about Thailand that people will risk Jail and deportation for a sum lower than they would get on the welfare in their own countries?

Working as a Teacher without a work permit for a pittance..................

It's one of the great unsolved mysteries, I have no idea, but I suspect there are those that cannot return back to their own countries for whatever reason, and those that have entered into a relationship and just don't want to go back.

If they are willing to work for such low pay and risk jail and deportation for that privilage, there must be some very strong reason to stay.

[rexall]

rexall, there are labour ministry offices granting real work permits to non-degree-holding farang.

Fascinating! Thanks for that. I think.

[Belgarath]

And yet this should have been point number two of the new regulations. The first should obviously be, for a ministry thinking of the future, to nicely ask the best and most experienced foreign English teachers to teach the next generation of Thai teachers in English, especially in conversation if not grammar.

As it is now, the rich send their kids abroad to learn it, the poor cannot. If good English teaching is getting more expensive in Thailand, they can even less and it helps to differ between rich and poor even more - it is now as it was in the West 100 years ago, rich and poor simply do not know each other.

Much of the discussion seems rather egoistic - we love Thailand but if more people there could get a better education, we ought to love it even more...

[samran]

---incentivised ???

try have incentive.

I never flame but really - incentivised ???

Yes, chinadarling, but really!!!

An entirely legitimate usage which stems from incentive. In the UK, spelled with an s and in the USA with a z

in·cen·tiv·ize (n-snt-vz) Pronunciation Key

tr.v. in·cen·tiv·ized, in·cen·tiv·iz·ing, in·cen·tiv·iz·es

To offer incentives or an incentive to; motivate: “This bill will help incentivize everybody to solve that part of the problem” (Richard A. Gephardt).

Indeed, English is sometimes difficult to grasp, even for native speakers who make more than their fair share of mistakes.

Thanks pjallittle and dog412 for sticking up for me!

Problem is though, I probably do deserve to be spanked. Not for misusing the english language (in this case at least) but due to the fact that I used management consultant speak.....which is a crime in itself.

[toptuan]

rexall, there are labour ministry offices granting real work permits to non-degree-holding farang.

Fascinating! Thanks for that. I think.

True. In my province, I've made over sixteen trips* to the labor office to renew my WP. Never was asked once to show a degree, transcript or certificate.

*Thirteen trips in the first year of teaching, due to visa hassles.

[jeff_gangl]

English teachers that can't even speak thai...just another example of farang in Thailand trying to get away with stuff they can't do at home...and teaching is just a drop in the bucket...

[Ijustwannateach]

Some general observations and rumour control:

1. It is indeed possible, depending on what kind of school hires you and for what purpose, to be granted a work permit legally without having a degree. I think this is STILL true, provisionally, under the morass of new rules (see 3, below).

2. Despite being on the more-qualified end of most of these scales (including, so far, passing all the Thai requirements which apply to me, as far as I know), I personally believe in the ability of non-degreed TEFL holders to teach simple conversational English to schoolchildren. I don't understand why this is so controversial.

3. I believe that most of these new qualifications are intended to apply to non-TEFLers; in other words, TEFL teachers will be required to have TEFL certs. or be grandfathered in after the right number of years of experience. This will *probably* not affect the ability of a non-degreed TEFL holder to get a job of some kind. But who knows, really? The new regulations have been issued in a 15-16 page Thai report, usually to Thai teacher assistants who have been saddled with the burden of dealing with foreign teachers' visa matters. They usually get the job because they're either hated or incompetent, and have the average IQ of a donut.

4. As a general remark, directed at no one in particular: attacking the grammar, spelling, usage, etc. of English in other members' posts is very rarely an impressive argument about anything, and almost always winds up backfiring. There are few posts complaining about other posters' English in this thread which do not themselves contain errors.

5. While it is admirable that Thailand wants to improve standards and qualifications, the manner in which the government does this is important. People have built (or want to build) lives here. Just as with the visa rules, if people believe that the rug can so quickly be slipped out under everyone's feet (or that the goalposts can be moved overnight, or whatever equivalent metaphor you'd like to substitute) then they will be afraid of risking anything on Thailand. This has the OPPOSITE effect of attracting intelligent people with decent qualifications, who will often choose stability even over substantially higher standards of living that are not reliable or predictable. This is true whether you are talking about investment of your money or investment of working years in your career.

6. Considering that we've had a new Minister of Education practically every 2 months for the last few years, it's going to take some serious and long-term promotion of any big changes in the system for them to stick. Why would anyone believe anything the MOE says at all, with a past history like this? There may be a few casualities, but most likely those who stick it out will be able to ignore this latest edict as well-

7. Which further undermines the proposed system. If most of the experienced folks here who know what they're doing refuse to invest the money and time in a silly "cultural" qualification (such as that proposed for those who don't fulfill certain new requirements) which may not even be important past next month, its failure will become assured by popular non-participation. It's doubtful that any government will call such a bluff and throw out masses of teachers at once, with no one to replace them- too many scions of wealthy families in EP programs.

"Steven"

[ratcatcher]

Some general observations and rumour control:

1. It is indeed possible, depending on what kind of school hires you and for what purpose, to be granted a work permit legally without having a degree. I think this is STILL true, provisionally, under the morass of new rules (see 3, below).

2. Despite being on the more-qualified end of most of these scales (including, so far, passing all the Thai requirements which apply to me, as far as I know), I personally believe in the ability of non-degreed TEFL holders to teach simple conversational English to schoolchildren. I don't understand why this is so controversial.

3. I believe that most of these new qualifications are intended to apply to non-TEFLers; in other words, TEFL teachers will be required to have TEFL certs. or be grandfathered in after the right number of years of experience. This will *probably* not affect the ability of a non-degreed TEFL holder to get a job of some kind. But who knows, really? The new regulations have been issued in a 15-16 page Thai report, usually to Thai teacher assistants who have been saddled with the burden of dealing with foreign teachers' visa matters. They usually get the job because they're either hated or incompetent, and have the average IQ of a donut.

4. As a general remark, directed at no one in particular: attacking the grammar, spelling, usage, etc. of English in other members' posts is very rarely an impressive argument about anything, and almost always winds up backfiring. There are few posts complaining about other posters' English in this thread which do not themselves contain errors.

5. While it is admirable that Thailand wants to improve standards and qualifications, the manner in which the government does this is important. People have built (or want to build) lives here. Just as with the visa rules, if people believe that the rug can so quickly be slipped out under everyone's feet (or that the goalposts can be moved overnight, or whatever equivalent metaphor you'd like to substitute) then they will be afraid of risking anything on Thailand. This has the OPPOSITE effect of attracting intelligent people with decent qualifications, who will often choose stability even over substantially higher standards of living that are not reliable or predictable. This is true whether you are talking about investment of your money or investment of working years in your career.

6. Considering that we've had a new Minister of Education practically every 2 months for the last few years, it's going to take some serious and long-term promotion of any big changes in the system for them to stick. Why would anyone believe anything the MOE says at all, with a past history like this? There may be a few casualities, but most likely those who stick it out will be able to ignore this latest edict as well-

7. Which further undermines the proposed system. If most of the experienced folks here who know what they're doing refuse to invest the money and time in a silly "cultural" qualification (such as that proposed for those who don't fulfill certain new requirements) which may not even be important past next month, its failure will become assured by popular non-participation. It's doubtful that any government will call such a bluff and throw out masses of teachers at once, with no one to replace them- too many scions of wealthy families in EP programs.

"Steven"

Bloody excellent post!

[Ijustwannateach]

Thenk you so veddy much!

[mopenyang]

Some general observations and rumour control:

1. It is indeed possible, depending on what kind of school hires you and for what purpose, to be granted a work permit legally without having a degree. I think this is STILL true, provisionally, under the morass of new rules (see 3, below).

2. Despite being on the more-qualified end of most of these scales (including, so far, passing all the Thai requirements which apply to me, as far as I know), I personally believe in the ability of non-degreed TEFL holders to teach simple conversational English to schoolchildren. I don't understand why this is so controversial.

3. I believe that most of these new qualifications are intended to apply to non-TEFLers; in other words, TEFL teachers will be required to have TEFL certs. or be grandfathered in after the right number of years of experience. This will *probably* not affect the ability of a non-degreed TEFL holder to get a job of some kind. But who knows, really? The new regulations have been issued in a 15-16 page Thai report, usually to Thai teacher assistants who have been saddled with the burden of dealing with foreign teachers' visa matters. They usually get the job because they're either hated or incompetent, and have the average IQ of a donut.

4. As a general remark, directed at no one in particular: attacking the grammar, spelling, usage, etc. of English in other members' posts is very rarely an impressive argument about anything, and almost always winds up backfiring. There are few posts complaining about other posters' English in this thread which do not themselves contain errors.

5. While it is admirable that Thailand wants to improve standards and qualifications, the manner in which the government does this is important. People have built (or want to build) lives here. Just as with the visa rules, if people believe that the rug can so quickly be slipped out under everyone's feet (or that the goalposts can be moved overnight, or whatever equivalent metaphor you'd like to substitute) then they will be afraid of risking anything on Thailand. This has the OPPOSITE effect of attracting intelligent people with decent qualifications, who will often choose stability even over substantially higher standards of living that are not reliable or predictable. This is true whether you are talking about investment of your money or investment of working years in your career.

6. Considering that we've had a new Minister of Education practically every 2 months for the last few years, it's going to take some serious and long-term promotion of any big changes in the system for them to stick. Why would anyone believe anything the MOE says at all, with a past history like this? There may be a few casualities, but most likely those who stick it out will be able to ignore this latest edict as well-

7. Which further undermines the proposed system. If most of the experienced folks here who know what they're doing refuse to invest the money and time in a silly "cultural" qualification (such as that proposed for those who don't fulfill certain new requirements) which may not even be important past next month, its failure will become assured by popular non-participation. It's doubtful that any government will call such a bluff and throw out masses of teachers at once, with no one to replace them- too many scions of wealthy families in EP programs.

"Steven"

I have read nothing to indicate "that most of these new qualifications are intended to apply to non-TEFLers." Where are you getting this from? What I have read indicates these new requirements are for teachers with no mention of any kind of efl teachers being an excluded category.

[Ijustwannateach]

I have read nothing to indicate "that most of these new qualifications are intended to apply to non-TEFLers." Where are you getting this from? What I have read indicates these new requirements are for teachers with no mention of any kind of efl teachers being an excluded category.

It is my understanding from a couple of sources that those with TEFL certificates will be exempted from certain parts of the requirements, and will probably have to pass a "culture test" (although certain TEFL certs. may already have these included). Once again, I or my sources could be wrong or all of this could have changed again by Tuesday. If you have any "official, official" sources to post in detail, they would be welcomed (and I would give them prominent placement in the Teaching Subforum).

[Ijustwannateach]

Let's stay on topic, please. This is not the teacher-bashing thread, or the "criticizing other posters' grammar, typing, spelling, etc." thread. I will continue cleaning up the thread and if I have to do so persistently for certain members I may give them a temporary opportunity to pursue other activities in their free time.

The topic is the coming apparent "crackdown" on foreign teachers.

"Steven"

[gosmond]

An absolutely impossible task. People from some native-speaking English countries cannot get their own transcripts. How do you certify your documents if your embassy doesn't do it for any price? I have my transcripts, and they look absurd.

A certified copy does not certify the original. A certified copy merely confirms that the copy is identical to the original.

Certfifying the original is done by MoE contacting the institution that issued it.

Thus, you do not need to involve your embassy.

Just bring your original to a solicitor that can make a certified copy.

If you cannot get a transcript from the institution you attended... that says quite a lof of the quality of the place that gave you your degree in the first place.

Perhaps this is impossible for a small minority... but I can't see how getting a transcript should be "an absolutely impossible task" for most people.

I had no problems getting transcripts from universities I attended in australia, norway and UK.

I don't doubt this could potentially raise the standard of teaching.... but I don't think most Thai people can afford it. Let's face it, top quality teachers, at top quality institutions also cost top dollars.

Many of the former Colleges of Education in the UKin the 60's - ealry 70's did not have course transcripts. Most brought them in in the early 70's when the 4 year Bachelors course was shortened to 3 years with modules etc. Prior to that the colleges simply had course outlines. Also since the colleges of education became polytechnics, Birmingham University for example, lost track of many student records pre-1970. I had a hel_l of a problem getting something that resembled a transcript for an attempt at a visa for the USA a few years back.

[Hermano Lobo]

Birmingham University for example,

I understand that Birmingham University produces very good English Teachers/courses ?

Edited November 4, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[sting01]

English teachers that can't even speak thai...just another example of farang in Thailand trying to get away with stuff they can't do at home...and teaching is just a drop in the bucket...

Well, consider Chula (the most prestigious Thai univeristy I think), when teaching there (Faculty of Art) in 2003, I was specifically told to NOT use thai.

I do agree I was teaching french, not english. But the goal when a deparment hire a native speaker is to make the student fluent in conversation in a foreign language, not to learn that language (it's supposed to be already made).

The main part of the so called english teachers, those called by some posters pervs, whackos, packbackers .... are not teaching. They are called teachers because the genetical disability of thai people to call a cat a cat. They are repetitor, or tutor, or conversationist (neologism?). They are not qualified for teaching (but mostly they do not pretend to be), but to make the kids able to speak (mostly kids are affraid to loose face when spoken to a farang, if the farang look like a monkey, is drunk, dress like a beggar, so the shyness will disapear) (jokking). Those people are here to provide a service that can not be provided by the thai teachers (or the french english teachers in france , the problem is true for every country).

The system did wonder in the 60' 70', because the backpackers were backpackers, stopping here for 6 month before to go to Katmandu. Rigth now , a backpackers simply can't do that : he will earn 20 000 bht, have an appartment (5 000 at least) with electricity (2 000), have to eat (100bht/day so at least 3 000/month with only mama or papaya pok ...) he will have to do visa run every month (1 000 for cambodian police + 300 as tip to cambodia immi) + the trip by itself (sorry I do not know the price, I think at least 1 000 including drink and meal), he will at least have a decent meal friday evening with the collegues and shares one or two beers (3 000 a monht). How can he pay for his return ticket? I challenge every one on those numbers to call them non accurate.

So not only to teach (sic) 50 naughty and nasty kids without any support from the kinder garten administration I have to have a good cursus, experience as teacher in my own country, I also have to accept to be paid peanuts and beg pardon to the locals who think it's unfair; but I must have savings BEFORE to come here to support myself and support the price of my return ticket.

So I do think some posters are out of mind, brain dead or brain washed, when they are screaming after the so called english teachers and saying this new set of laws is good. It's not good, for the majority of the country. It will be good in one way : it will be sabai sabai for the sexpats as the kids will be not educated (the parents can not afford the price of a real teachers from Cambridge or Oxford, assuming a graduate from Cody , Wy, is not a native english speaker but and american english native speaker) the only way to move out of their own misery will be to hook up with some wealthy middle aged white english native speaker and selll sex against money (and maybe also some conversational skills).

I do repeat what I have already proposed : simply stop to call the tutors/repetitors teachers, allow them a way to get a WP and a visa easily , based not on diploma but on results, let them do that for a limitate period of time (1 year or 2) , then of they can pass a diploma and become teachers (for the best ofthem) or they go. It was the spirit of the old system : the guy stay here for 6 month make some money , make the kids speak and then he go to Katmandu, and another come.

I forget to say it will also allow the people who do have a diploma in education to be real teachers with real responsabilities on the class and the cursus; it will allow to make a difference btw those who teach and those who help.

Edited November 4, 2006 by sting01

[thomas3940]

And I'm sure when a student stops you mid stride and asks why it is

"Up with which I will not put" versus "I will not put up with it".

How many so called trained teachers can say which of the above is correct.

Or why or when (exactly) is the letter A pronounced Aye or with a short a as in apple and how do you tell.

Sat 04 Nov 06, 11:20 a.m.

Hi Hublet, all,

You express yourself in an authoritative manner so it many not be evident to readers that you are merely expressing an opinion here. TEFL is rife with ongoing controversy regarding methods and approaches. For example, great numbers of experts believe that teaching any prescriptive grammar at all (e.g., "Up with which I will not put" versus "I will not put up with it") is not only inefficient but may actually be an impediment to students gaining fluency. If you look at the millions of Asian students whose heads are cluttered with rules of grammar and phonetic symbols (often more knowledgeable than their teachers) yet cannot string together two simple Engarishe sentences, it is clear that there is at least some validity to the communicative (no grammar) approach.

Personally, if I were hiring for a school in Thailand, I would prefer enthusiastic, personable, engaging teaching teachers who were capable of getting students to actually use the language in a meaningful way as opposed to some egghead adding yet another patina of grammar rules, phonetic symbols and vocab that students will never use.

My intent here is not to revisit this perennial controversy, merely to point out that these issues are complex and often controversial, and it is all too easy to maintain strong opinions without really being aware of the current thinking in the field of TEFL.

Aloha,

Rex

True, True,True! It's hard enough learing grammer when you have spoken Englsih all your life. The people learning english must be totally confused!

[Ijustwannateach]

Sting, thanks for a post with a great deal of common sense.

[thaigene2]

Prediction: This requirement will fail and be withdrawn.

Reason: Thai middle-classes will scream bloody murder becasue the bi-lingual schools they are paying 100,000 baht + per year for have lost their under-paid (and under-qualified) 'Farang' teachers. There's no way they're going to hire teachers at the wages paid by International Schools. In other words, the only people that 'matter' to politicians - the middle-class Thais - will be directly affected. It will be withdrawn or changed somehow to make sure the cheap-charlie farang teachers don't lose their jobs and the hi-so school owners don't lose their paying customers. Sabai-sabai will be maintained.

[ilyushin]

Same age old problem with great new solutions for foreign/local teachers in Thailand.

MOE should just accept an affidavit or UNESCO teacher card with all your credentials attached. It makes it easier and legit to do it this way. Saves time, no waiting, etc... Too easy I guess!

We use in it real world business (affidavits, embassy stamps). Why can't it be applied to the teaching industry?

[bkkandrew]

English teachers that can't even speak thai...just another example of farang in Thailand trying to get away with stuff they can't do at home...and teaching is just a drop in the bucket...

Well, consider Chula (the most prestigious Thai univeristy I think), when teaching there (Faculty of Art) in 2003, I was specifically told to NOT use thai.

I do agree I was teaching french, not english. But the goal when a deparment hire a native speaker is to make the student fluent in conversation in a foreign language, not to learn that language (it's supposed to be already made).

The main part of the so called english teachers, those called by some posters pervs, whackos, packbackers .... are not teaching. They are called teachers because the genetical disability of thai people to call a cat a cat. They are repetitor, or tutor, or conversationist (neologism?). They are not qualified for teaching (but mostly they do not pretend to be), but to make the kids able to speak (mostly kids are affraid to loose face when spoken to a farang, if the farang look like a monkey, is drunk, dress like a beggar, so the shyness will disapear) (jokking). Those people are here to provide a service that can not be provided by the thai teachers (or the french english teachers in france , the problem is true for every country).

The system did wonder in the 60' 70', because the backpackers were backpackers, stopping here for 6 month before to go to Katmandu. Rigth now , a backpackers simply can't do that : he will earn 20 000 bht, have an appartment (5 000 at least) with electricity (2 000), have to eat (100bht/day so at least 3 000/month with only mama or papaya pok ...) he will have to do visa run every month (1 000 for cambodian police + 300 as tip to cambodia immi) + the trip by itself (sorry I do not know the price, I think at least 1 000 including drink and meal), he will at least have a decent meal friday evening with the collegues and shares one or two beers (3 000 a monht). How can he pay for his return ticket? I challenge every one on those numbers to call them non accurate.

So not only to teach (sic) 50 naughty and nasty kids without any support from the kinder garten administration I have to have a good cursus, experience as teacher in my own country, I also have to accept to be paid peanuts and beg pardon to the locals who think it's unfair; but I must have savings BEFORE to come here to support myself and support the price of my return ticket.

So I do think some posters are out of mind, brain dead or brain washed, when they are screaming after the so called english teachers and saying this new set of laws is good. It's not good, for the majority of the country. It will be good in one way : it will be sabai sabai for the sexpats as the kids will be not educated (the parents can not afford the price of a real teachers from Cambridge or Oxford, assuming a graduate from Cody , Wy, is not a native english speaker but and american english native speaker) the only way to move out of their own misery will be to hook up with some wealthy middle aged white english native speaker and selll sex against money (and maybe also some conversational skills).

I do repeat what I have already proposed : simply stop to call the tutors/repetitors teachers, allow them a way to get a WP and a visa easily , based not on diploma but on results, let them do that for a limitate period of time (1 year or 2) , then of they can pass a diploma and become teachers (for the best ofthem) or they go. It was the spirit of the old system : the guy stay here for 6 month make some money , make the kids speak and then he go to Katmandu, and another come.

I forget to say it will also allow the people who do have a diploma in education to be real teachers with real responsabilities on the class and the cursus; it will allow to make a difference btw those who teach and those who help.

Let me start by saying great post. On the bit that I have coloured in bold, you know this gives me a great idea of how to get a new LOW COST mia noi. I have been asked on several occasions by girls to give them "English" lessons, but have declined... Maybe I will read an English textbook after all.

Edited November 5, 2006 by bkkandrew

[Robski]

Some very good posts. It's obviously a hot topic, there seems to be a point to some of the posts that without a degree a person shouldn't be teaching TEFL, this new law may filter out some of the worse teachers, those with a limited grasp of English, but unfortunately a lot of decent teachers with just a TEFL qualification may find the rug pulled out from under them.

This is unfortunate, I feel this 'crackdown' has been brought upon us, not by the honest people with TEFL certification, but by all those teachers working with bogus degrees, they should be sweating and if this law gets rid of them, great. It is immoral to lie to get into such a position of trust, I'm sure there are many of them out there.

This is the land where money talks loudest and it's hypocritical for the MoE to talk about honesty and transparency when so many contracts are fixed with back-handers, so as there is so much interest in this topic I propose we start a whip-round and see if we can get enough together to give the minister concerned a little incentive, he may see the error of his ways, if the greatful farang teachers were to honour him with great generosity.

[Rhys]

So does that mean the prestigious degrees offered by Khason Rhode U.. will no longer be accepted?

Again.. Look at the schools and officials going after the type of teachers...this will affect... These places and officials make life fast and fun.. work without a work permit...Flame the school by the BTS line on the other line..

Standards yes.. and quite flaming the Filipinos.. Yes they can roll the /L/ and /r/ with the best of them..however the professionalism and desire by these teachers is a notch above..

We are still recovering from the knee jerk reaction of that Tabloid NEWs dude..

MOE has a way to go in reaching their goals.. this is a tiny step in the right direction, however, the folks, in the "BE" will take this back 3 giant steps..

55555.. PARTY ON DUDES...