Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo – innocent in the 'trial by social media'

[smedly]

I actually believe there is a gang or group of men there that prey on young western women picking a target and waiting until they see a vunerability then pounce ending up with attempted rape - rape - or in some cases murder and if anyone gets in the way they are dealt with also, these men believe they are untouchable and so far that seems to be the case, a post on TVF last year from a long term ex resident of the Island claimed that most of the incidents that occur go largely unreported and are kept out of the media, many young women claiming to have been assaulted and little or no action is taken by local law enforcement, it would be great if some of these victims would come forward and tell their story, obviously there is no way to prove that such incidents happen but there are some very strong indications.

[JLCrab]

Unreported tourist attempted rapes, rapes, drugging type 'date' rapes, maybe. Unreported murders? Not likely.

BTW this from the UK Embassy -- Bangkok website:

Urgent assistance

If you’re in Thailand and you urgently need help (eg if you’ve been attacked, arrested or there has been a death), call (0)2 305 xxxx

Edited April 26, 2016 by JLCrab

[montrii]

After initially believing in the innocence of the two charged men, I now believe the family of the murdered man who strongly believe in their guilt after consultations with UK police involved with the matter and their attendance at court. It was difficult to accept but they are the ones who had the most interest in deciding the guilt or otherwise of the two charged men and must have looked very critically at the evidence presented so I believe them.

What I don't agree with, however, is the death penalty for the two men in case any further evidence is presented in the future that would overturn their convictions.

That is complete tosh! The last people you would ask for an opinion about this are those who have a huge vested emotional interest in it.

Also, from news reports I've read about the family's agreement . . . they were apparently treated to a VIP-level song-and-dance show run by master publicists. They did not hear from Dr. Porntip, or any of the serious critics of the police. Their comments hold very little weight with me. And the young woman's parents held back from saying anything.

[atyclb]

By Ian Yarwood, Solicitor, Aussie Lawyer SOME INSIGHTS INTO THE MURDERS OF TWO BRITISH BACKPACKERS ON THE THAI ISLAND OF KOH TAO

http://thailandjustice.com/insights-into-the-murders-of-british-backpackers-on-koh-tao/

snippet

in my opinion, and with the greatest of respect to the Court, the so-called “DNA evidence” should have been ruled as inadmissible. The police and prosecutor had none of the alleged original mixed DNA samples that they said were recovered from Hannah’s body. In the circumstances, all the “results” flowing from such samples could not be verified or tested by the defence team. It matters not that the prosecutor says that he had “amplified” DNA as one cannot be sure of the original source. It would be easy for the police to simply compare the DNA taken from cheek swabs of the defendants then compare it with other amplified DNA that was sourced from cheek swabs taken from the defendants. That will ensure a “match” but it won’t be a match of the defendents to any original mixed semen samples.5

This was written by a PROPERTY lawyer from Perth who did not attend any of the court sittings, the defense was offered to retest DNA from the victim and they declined. and they never used the above reason as excuse either.

are you saying his points are not valid because he currently practices property law?

[Incobart]

I wiĺl add my 2 cents again. They got the right 2. No mafia...just 2 dirtbags and they got caught. The british police got involved and no way would they not have said something if they knew these 2 were innocent! Stop already and execute them and be finished.

I'm sorry but when I readd your comment i get cold shivering, Not to be personal, but if you talk like that you belong to the same category of 'dirtbag'-people that did the crime in no respect for other human beings.

[Incobart]

There was, is and will probably always be reasonable doubt as to their guilt.

Then nobody should be in prison

[Incobart]

What a crock of <deleted>.... This is not "trial by social media"

This is the public standing up against the completely and probably deliberate mis management of the crime scene and evidence... And the subsequent arrests...

The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....?

Fingers and questions should be raised at those responsible in the Thai Police ... And heads should roll...!!!

The best thing we could do is let any tourist avoid koh Tao ..

[rudy h]

After initially believing in the innocence of the two charged men, I now believe the family of the murdered man who strongly believe in their guilt after consultations with UK police involved with the matter and their attendance at court. It was difficult to accept but they are the ones who had the most interest in deciding the guilt or otherwise of the two charged men and must have looked very critically at the evidence presented so I believe them.

What I don't agree with, however, is the death penalty for the two men in case any further evidence is presented in the future that would overturn their convictions.

That is complete tosh! The last people you would ask for an opinion about this are those who have a huge vested emotional interest in it.

Also, from news reports I've read about the family's agreement . . . they were apparently treated to a VIP-level song-and-dance show run by master publicists. They did not hear from Dr. Porntip, or any of the serious critics of the police. Their comments hold very little weight with me. And the young woman's parents held back from saying anything.

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion Edited April 26, 2016 by rudy h

[rudy h]

I believe she is much more qualified than you or I in the examination of forensic evidence and I would even stretch it further by saying ethically speaking above anyone else in the country of Thailand to make such an opinion but she was never really given that chance

[Moonsterk]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

More lies wrung out of the Facebook truth scrubbing machine.

Montriwat, as the brother of the village head, Tuvichien, was ' deputized" to assist police as is the headman's right and duty to do. The island at the time had very limited police presence.

When he stepped over that line, he was acting in an official capacity. Bodies had been moved, and wrapped by the ( admittedly limited forensic experienced ) officers already.

Using still shots it was CSI La that perpetuated the entire story of the Tuvichien's involvement along with some carefully edited and manipulated CCTV from Bangkok that sought to discredit NOm Sod's alibi.

Seen some very interesting FB conversations on Why CSI La fb page wanted to discredit this family- let's just say petty retribution was involved.

[chainarong]

It is uncommon for the police force of any nation to be held with complete contempt and bordering on hatred by both the population and the expat community , this in itself is reason to be suspicious of the clowns in brown , they have been caught out before in cases where they have arrested the wrong person, and one wonders just how many have been imprisoned because of false information, planted evidence and false allegations , one resulted in the BBC being banned from Thailand, as along with the girl's family they hired a Ex Scotland yard detective to go undercover in Chiang Mai the result was a Thai had committed the murder, not a young man from Sydney. The RTP have been under scrutiny from the Expat community for decades and their behaviour up till now doesn't warrant any faith in their policing in the short term.

[Moonsterk]

Slow news time in Samui? I can't think of any other reason why this article of reconstituted issues should be published at this time.

The author of the article is planning to release a book about the case, so one reason would be to prime the market.

Really? Could you give us a link to that info please AG?

I will verify I was told this in a conversation via FB with Suzanne.

[Moonsterk]

It is uncommon for the police force of any nation to be held with complete contempt and bordering on hatred by both the population and the expat community , this in itself is reason to be suspicious of the clowns in brown , they have been caught out before in cases where they have arrested the wrong person, and one wonders just how many have been imprisoned because of false information, planted evidence and false allegations , one resulted in the BBC being banned from Thailand, as along with the girl's family they hired a Ex Scotland yard detective to go undercover in Chiang Mai the result was a Thai had committed the murder, not a young man from Sydney. The RTP have been under scrutiny from the Expat community for decades and their behaviour up till now doesn't warrant any faith in their policing in the short term.

And how much of this was FB manipulated? How much of what you just wrote is fact?

Even if true, and yes I would concur the RTP are not particularly admirable, it just does not pre-empt the amount of lies this case of " innocence" has used.

Those boys raped Hannah, and killed David, of that I have no doubt. If they had admitted this, they would be spending less time in prison. Heck people get out ion a few years for murder. They could have claimed David was an accident, they did not mean to kill him, and some western misogynist psycho took the opportunity to kill Hannah viciously- after they'd left.

That's how I would have defended them...

[Moonsterk]

What a crock of <deleted>.... This is not "trial by social media"

This is the public standing up against the completely and probably deliberate mis management of the crime scene and evidence... And the subsequent arrests...

The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....?

Fingers and questions should be raised at those responsible in the Thai Police ... And heads should roll...!!!

The best thing we could do is let any tourist avoid koh Tao ..

HUndreds of thousands go and have the time of their lives. Two got murdered.

Several others died from their own choices and lifestyles; overdose whilst suffering a chest infection, suicide with a note, extreme inebriation in two cases, most recently with Louet, ill health and foolish decisions.

[Moonsterk]

The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....?

And who says it isn't? Social media. People emotionally involved with large FB followings.

What turned my thinking around was the initial narrative, " Police planted evidence..." that then- after the verdict- became police messed with lab results ( and the police lab is ISO accredited - another lie put out that it wasn't)

So police planted DNA evidence, or otheriwse created a false chain and then either were incompetent or faked test results. Is that what you're arguing happened?

From the above Post #1: "No mention was made of what a great relief it was that two psychopathic killers were no longer on the loose, and the beaches of Koh Tao were once again safe to enjoy."

Since the two murders last September 2014 and the arrest of the 2 now convicted of those crimes, no one has fortunately similarly been bludgeoned to death and left on the beaches of Koh Tao. When that has ever been mentioned before on these pages, the response has generally been:

Those psychopathic killers still on the loose are clever and just biding their time.

Headslap. You really think that is evidence of their guilt?

Well every natural and accidental death since ( some completely fabricated even) has been used in attempts to exonerate them, so why not?

Why not? Well, because if blindingly simple and obviously logic. That's why not.

Face you in staring the.

Really? Because I think the premise police both planted (or faked) DNA evidence, and the also messed up on lab testing has no logic. If you're gonna plant evidence, make damn sure the lab processes it correctly because you do not want people snooping around it.

When that smelly pile started making the fb rounds just after the convictions, I had to step back and think- no that narrative is just complete BS and then I got curious about what else might be BS- and found out with just the smallest a bit of an open mind- just about ALL of it is.

[smedly]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

was he deputised to notice the hoe was missing and have it returned to under the tree by the beach gardener that normally used it who is also now missing along with several other key people involved

How did mon know the hoe was the murder weapon and where it was supposed to be found - quite some distance from the crime scene in the little garden under the tree, seems he had this crime scene bagged tagged and solved before anyone actually started to investigate

[Moonsterk]

I believe she is much more qualified than you or I in the examination of forensic evidence and I would even stretch it further by saying ethically speaking above anyone else in the country of Thailand to make such an opinion but she was never really given that chance

Porntip testified- she said her piece and the judges listened.

I think you are mixing her up with that complete poseur Internationally renowned DNA expert ( another FB BS meme) Jane Taupin. Another one with a book to sell ( ahem, and only a Bachelor degree)

Smartest thing defense did was decline her " help" Never saw such an obvious ploy for publicity.

[Moonsterk]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

was he deputised to notice the hoe was missing and have it returned to under the tree by the beach gardener that normally used it who is also now missing along with several other key people involved

How did mon know the hoe was the murder weapon and where it was supposed to be found - quite some distance from the crime scene in the little garden under the tree, seems he had this crime scene bagged tagged and solved before anyone actually started to investigate

And where are you getting that info? A fb page? How far exactly was the hoe ? Missing people? Sounds like more Justice ...FB page BS

Show me the link to the news report, please.

Even if true Mon found the hoe, ( and am not agreeing it is) , you are simply wanting to assign blame, a bloody hoe up against a tree is hardy invisible to anyone looking around for a bloody object.

How did he know it was the murder weapon ? That is beyond absurd, surely you are just gnatting now. Posting for annoyance.

Please....please somebody come up with something that is not beyond pathetic in these arguments- it's embarrassing.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[rudy h]

Ok sorry so the judges heard her say, so what was her opinion? Was it valid? You know in Thailand judges can be persuaded and it doesn't take much. Let's not be so naïve

[Moonsterk]

Ok sorry so the judges heard her say, so what was her opinion? Was it valid? You know in Thailand judges can be persuaded and it doesn't take much. Let's not be so naïve

Whose opinion? Who are you talking about? Are you still confused as to who you are referring to? Porntip or Taupin? Who said what about what and what was valid? Huh?

Persuaded? Are you insinuating the judges were paid? I don't think that's true. But in all absence of logic and reasoned argument, I suppose I would fall back on it too- if I were you.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[rudy h]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

More lies wrung out of the Facebook truth scrubbing machine.

Montriwat, as the brother of the village head, Tuvichien, was ' deputized" to assist police as is the headman's right and duty to do. The island at the time had very limited police presence.

When he stepped over that line, he was acting in an official capacity. Bodies had been moved, and wrapped by the ( admittedly limited forensic experienced ) officers already.

Using still shots it was CSI La that perpetuated the entire story of the Tuvichien's involvement along with some carefully edited and manipulated CCTV from Bangkok that sought to discredit NOm Sod's alibi.

Seen some very interesting FB conversations on Why CSI La fb page wanted to discredit this family- let's just say petty retribution was involved.

so why the hell did uncle mon chase Sean into 711?

[Moonsterk]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

More lies wrung out of the Facebook truth scrubbing machine.

Montriwat, as the brother of the village head, Tuvichien, was ' deputized" to assist police as is the headman's right and duty to do. The island at the time had very limited police presence.

When he stepped over that line, he was acting in an official capacity. Bodies had been moved, and wrapped by the ( admittedly limited forensic experienced ) officers already.

Using still shots it was CSI La that perpetuated the entire story of the Tuvichien's involvement along with some carefully edited and manipulated CCTV from Bangkok that sought to discredit NOm Sod's alibi.

Seen some very interesting FB conversations on Why CSI La fb page wanted to discredit this family- let's just say petty retribution was involved.

so why the hell did uncle mon chase Sean into 711?

Because he thought Sean was involved? Because he thought Sean knew who was involved?

if Montriwat is a murderer, is he going to be chasing people around on various CCTV and then letting them video him cornering and confronting them? Let's remember there was a police man with Mon at this time.

There had been a crime of horrific proportions, of course the local headman's brother and his pal, the cop are going to be asking questions and looking people in the eye. They had perfectly valid reasons to suspect McAnna.

Does Mr McAnna strike you as a particularly credible person? He may have just wanted a bit of publicity- that seems to be a behavior motivator in a lot of folks involved with this case- and a later death, too.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[rudy h]

You think that -ussy sean killed them? Really ?

[smedly]

The key is the fact that the police/prosecution have never been able to produce the "original" DNA samples that they claim match B2, the prosecution did offer up some already processed samples which for verification purposes are useless because there is no way to tell where they came from, they could in fact be processed samples of the B2's saliva, the defence rightly refused to accept these for retest

The original claimed DNA samples would/should have been huge in quantity - massive by DNA standards and yet they no longer exist.

These original samples would have been bagged and tagged from the crime scene and the autopsy and yet they cannot be produced. There is something fundamentally wrong with that no matter how you look at it.

International DNA standards require that original samples be retained as physical evidence to provide retesting if required or if requested by defence council, in any country that adheres to international standards and proceedures regarding DNA, such DNA evidence would be inadmissible if the original samples were no longer available, extracted or already processed extracts of original samples are not approved for this verification process unless original sample sizes are extremely small in which case the prosecution/police must notify the court and defense council prior to any testing in order to allow their involvement/participation in the testing process. In this particular case the original samples would have been extensive by DNA standards and would not have required such an application

[smedly]

several key people involved in this case are now no longer available, Roti seller translater - the gardener that stated they moved the hoe and was told by Mon to put it back after cleaning it - B3 another key witness

[rockingrobin]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

More lies wrung out of the Facebook truth scrubbing machine.

Montriwat, as the brother of the village head, Tuvichien, was ' deputized" to assist police as is the headman's right and duty to do. The island at the time had very limited police presence.

When he stepped over that line, he was acting in an official capacity. Bodies had been moved, and wrapped by the ( admittedly limited forensic experienced ) officers already.

Using still shots it was CSI La that perpetuated the entire story of the Tuvichien's involvement along with some carefully edited and manipulated CCTV from Bangkok that sought to discredit NOm Sod's alibi.

Seen some very interesting FB conversations on Why CSI La fb page wanted to discredit this family- let's just say petty retribution was involved.

Moonsterk

Can you confirm Mon was deputized, when and by whome and how you came across this info

Cheers

[rockingrobin]

where is the link to this info? She is one of the top 25 in the world for forensics and for the good general not to graciously accept her participation really leads me to think the fish rottenly stink in Koh Tao. The whole crime scene with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work, I can only believe they run the island with impunity. Big fish in a little pond on Koh Tao but social media makes them little fish in an ocean of world wide public opinion

with uncle Mon directing police traffic in the photos I saw sickened me with contamination of such backwards country bum -as bafoonery of police work,

More lies wrung out of the Facebook truth scrubbing machine.

Montriwat, as the brother of the village head, Tuvichien, was ' deputized" to assist police as is the headman's right and duty to do. The island at the time had very limited police presence.

When he stepped over that line, he was acting in an official capacity. Bodies had been moved, and wrapped by the ( admittedly limited forensic experienced ) officers already.

Using still shots it was CSI La that perpetuated the entire story of the Tuvichien's involvement along with some carefully edited and manipulated CCTV from Bangkok that sought to discredit NOm Sod's alibi.

Seen some very interesting FB conversations on Why CSI La fb page wanted to discredit this family- let's just say petty retribution was involved.

so why the hell did uncle mon chase Sean into 711?

Because he thought Sean was involved? Because he thought Sean knew who was involved?

if Montriwat is a murderer, is he going to be chasing people around on various CCTV and then letting them video him cornering and confronting them? Let's remember there was a police man with Mon at this time.

There had been a crime of horrific proportions, of course the local headman's brother and his pal, the cop are going to be asking questions and looking people in the eye. They had perfectly valid reasons to suspect McAnna.

Does Mr McAnna strike you as a particularly credible person? He may have just wanted a bit of publicity- that seems to be a behavior motivator in a lot of folks involved with this case- and a later death, too.

I agree Moonsterk Seans account and that of the spa employee differ

There were 2 coppers along with Mon who sat down and quizzed Sean in the bar that night

However can sean and the spa employee be both correct

Edited April 26, 2016 by rockingrobin

[Khun Han]

I actually believe there is a gang or group of men there that prey on young western women picking a target and waiting until they see a vunerability then pounce ending up with attempted rape - rape - or in some cases murder and if anyone gets in the way they are dealt with also, these men believe they are untouchable and so far that seems to be the case, a post on TVF last year from a long term ex resident of the Island claimed that most of the incidents that occur go largely unreported and are kept out of the media, many young women claiming to have been assaulted and little or no action is taken by local law enforcement, it would be great if some of these victims would come forward and tell their story, obviously there is no way to prove that such incidents happen but there are some very strong indications.

It's not only western women Mon and his crew prey on.

[Khun Han]

By Ian Yarwood, Solicitor, Aussie Lawyer SOME INSIGHTS INTO THE MURDERS OF TWO BRITISH BACKPACKERS ON THE THAI ISLAND OF KOH TAO

http://thailandjustice.com/insights-into-the-murders-of-british-backpackers-on-koh-tao/

snippet

in my opinion, and with the greatest of respect to the Court, the so-called DNA evidence should have been ruled as inadmissible. The police and prosecutor had none of the alleged original mixed DNA samples that they said were recovered from Hannahs body. In the circumstances, all the results flowing from such samples could not be verified or tested by the defence team. It matters not that the prosecutor says that he had amplified DNA as one cannot be sure of the original source. It would be easy for the police to simply compare the DNA taken from cheek swabs of the defendants then compare it with other amplified DNA that was sourced from cheek swabs taken from the defendants. That will ensure a match but it wont be a match of the defendents to any original mixed semen samples.5

This was written by a PROPERTY lawyer from Perth who did not attend any of the court sittings, the defense was offered to retest DNA from the victim and they declined. and they never used the above reason as excuse either.

are you saying his points are not valid because he currently practices property law?

It's SOP for them to say anything that they can think of to try to discredit credible people.

[JLCrab]

I actually believe there is a gang or group of men there that prey on young western women picking a target and waiting until they see a vunerability then pounce ending up with attempted rape - rape - or in some cases murder and if anyone gets in the way they are dealt with also, these men believe they are untouchable and so far that seems to be the case, a post on TVF last year from a long term ex resident of the Island claimed that most of the incidents that occur go largely unreported and are kept out of the media, many young women claiming to have been assaulted and little or no action is taken by local law enforcement, it would be great if some of these victims would come forward and tell their story, obviously there is no way to prove that such incidents happen but there are some very strong indications.

It's not only western women Mon and his crew prey on.

There's a component of the gang who preys on Western men?