Superannuation in Australia. Will I be taxed?

[Kenny202]

I have my super invested in Australia. Just normal employee contribution super...no salary sacrifice etc. Won't be drawing on it for at least 8 years when I turn 60. By then if I'm still living in LOS I'll well and truly be a non resident for tax purposes. Will I be taxed when I withdraw my super?

[Seizetheday]

Well you are lucky Kenny, I was a financial planner for 20 years, sold my practice last year. Now I do 4 months of tax returns in Aus and 8 months in Thailand.

The way the law stands at the moment you shouldn't pay any tax if you take your Super after age 60, as long as you weren't in a certain government Superannuation funds.

If you are classed a non resident you could be up for 35% tax, however if you Google the critearia to be classed a resident for tax purposes, you shoukd be able to satisfy the tests.

The alternative is to roll your Super to an allocated pension, you would probably earn 5 to 7% as you pay no tax on the earnings in a pension, and draw an income each month. That's what I'll be doing with my Super in 10 years.

[Kenny202]

I don't understand? I will have been out of the country nearly 10 years, maybe without even returning for a holiday? How could I be considered a resident

[patrick1968]

mate i like to know if you have super back in aus,,,,and you no longer live there married her with kids never want back can you take out your super thanks guys ,,,

[Kenny202]

mate i like to know if you have super back in aus,,,,and you no longer live there married her with kids never want back can you take out your super thanks guys ,,,

Why didn't you start Ur own post?

[patrick1968]

mate i like to know if you have super back in aus,,,,and you no longer live there married her with kids never want back can you take out your super thanks guys ,,,

Why didn't you startsorru

sorry mate ,,,,,,

[CharlieH]

Wrong forum

MOVED

[Koosdedooes]

I don't understand? I will have been out of the country nearly 10 years, maybe without even returning for a holiday? How could I be considered a resident

Just being out the country doesnt automatically make you non-resident, you need to look at the criteria for non-residency, and the fact that the source of the income is Aussie, this will almost certainly play a factor

If you own a house in Aussie, a car, even a bank account they can deem you have enough "presence" and ties to Aussie to make you resident for tax purposes.

[Kenny202]

I don't understand? I will have been out of the country nearly 10 years, maybe without even returning for a holiday? How could I be considered a resident

Just being out the country doesnt automatically make you non-resident, you need to look at the criteria for non-residency, and the fact that the source of the income is Aussie, this will almost certainly play a factor

If you own a house in Aussie, a car, even a bank account they can deem you have enough "presence" and ties to Aussie to make you resident for tax purposes.

I dont own property or a car in Australia. I have bank accounts and a license but that would be a weak argument. My accountant told me nothing short of owning a home in Australia would satisfy the requirement after 2 years particularly if the ATO is to gain. If I was earning big bucks overseas they might fight that I was a resident and owed tax. 35% of a large sum of money is something I need a bit more of a certain answer. Can't hope for the best

[Koosdedooes]

I don't understand? I will have been out of the country nearly 10 years, maybe without even returning for a holiday? How could I be considered a resident

Just being out the country doesnt automatically make you non-resident, you need to look at the criteria for non-residency, and the fact that the source of the income is Aussie, this will almost certainly play a factor

If you own a house in Aussie, a car, even a bank account they can deem you have enough "presence" and ties to Aussie to make you resident for tax purposes.

I dont own property or a car in Australia. I have bank accounts and a license but that would be a weak argument. My accountant told me nothing short of owning a home in Australia would satisfy the requirement after 2 years particularly if the ATO is to gain. If I was earning big bucks overseas they might fight that I was a resident and owed tax. 35% of a large sum of money is something I need a bit more of a certain answer. Can't hope for the best

You have an accountant, but feel the the need to ask an internet forum whether you will pay tax and whether your non resident or not . Priceless.. your accountant is an imbicile if he or she cant answer the questions you have posed

[neverdie]

What you ought to be worried about with Australian Super is irregardless of which government gets in at the next election, they'll all be on a cash grab and history has shown that they have AND WILL CONTI UE to do is move the goal posts on Superannuation, how it's accessed and at the rates at which it is taxed.

.........and of course there's no need to mention the impending world financial crisis which will shake most super funds to the core.

There's only one decent Superannuation fund worth being in and it's guaranteed protection at all levels, if you want in, you need to return to Oz and run for a seat in parliament......doesn't matter which house.

Superannuation......just another house of cards destined to fail whilst ever Politicians are busy scheming up new ways to get their hands on it.

5-10 years, good luck with that.

[Seizetheday]

I don't understand? I will have been out of the country nearly 10 years, maybe without even returning for a holiday? How could I be considered a resident

Kenny, you need to read the tax rules and how they are appplied by the ATO, apply some commonsense and laterall thinking.

I would imagine you would have a reasonable amount of money in your Super??

[sandgroper2]

You want to know what tax laws will be in eight years. You have definitely come to the right place for answers. I see you already have several.

[Koosdedooes]

You want to know what tax laws will be in eight years. You have definitely come to the right place for answers. I see you already have several.

I would have asked my accountant, after all isnt that what you pay them for ?...assuming of course one really has an accountant, you wouldnt need to ask on an internet forum would you ?...and if you had to, i would be sacking the accountant

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[georgemandm]

No

[Kenny202]

My superannuation company are telling me I will be taxed as a non resident if the current laws are the same in 8 years. They didn't say at what percentage but jesus. I can't believe it. I've paid a huge amount of tax over the years and I've accepted I won't get a pension. But they rape ur super too?

Edited May 2, 2016 by Kenny202

[tomwct]

Sorry Mate! Yes, you'll have to pay allot of taxes! Good Luck!

[Will27]

My superannuation company are telling me I will be taxed as a non resident if the current laws are the same in 8 years. They didn't say at what percentage but jesus. I can't believe it. I've paid a huge amount of tax over the years and I've accepted I won't get a pension. But they rape ur super too?

Current tax rate for non-residents is 32.5 cents in the dollar, up to $80 000 (no tax free threshold).

At least you won't have to pay medicare

I wouldn't worry about what will happen in 8 years time.

[sandgroper2]

My superannuation company are telling me I will be taxed as a non resident if the current laws are the same in 8 years. They didn't say at what percentage but jesus. I can't believe it. I've paid a huge amount of tax over the years and I've accepted I won't get a pension. But they rape ur super too?

Current tax rate for non-residents is 32.5 cents in the dollar, up to $80 000 (no tax free threshold).

At least you won't have to pay medicare

I wouldn't worry about what will happen in 8 years time.

I complained in Oz about paying the medicare when i couldnt bring ;my medical bills from thailand to oz to be paid.They said if i was living overseas i should be paying a higher rate of tax on my super pension.

[Koosdedooes]

My superannuation company are telling me I will be taxed as a non resident if the current laws are the same in 8 years. They didn't say at what percentage but jesus. I can't believe it. I've paid a huge amount of tax over the years and I've accepted I won't get a pension. But they rape ur super too?

Death and taxes the only certainties in life, but i am confused as to what gave you notion the payments would be tax free in the first place ?

Even though you have been out of aussie for 10 years, are you even registered with the tax man as "non-resident" for tax purposes in Aussie, not that that it would help you with your Aussie based income

As i mentioned in another post i would be sacking your "accountant" anyway as seemingly cant even answer a basic question

[Kenny202]

Well firstly I've been here 18 months. At present I could be considered an Australian resident. I am 52 yo and will be drawing my super as a lump sum when I turn 60 in 8 years time. I intend to live here the next 8 years without any substantial stay in Australia so I will then be considered a non resident. I do not have an Australian or overseas income since leaving Australia. I am retired.

What do you mean what gave me the idea the payment would be tax free? If I was living in Australia the next 8 years and turned 60, I could take my super in a lump sum tax free. Thats the way it is. This has been confirmed by my super fund and others.

Now. Do you really have any clue about what you're talking about or just throwing rhetorical stuff out there to appear that you do? The competency of my tax agent is not your concern nor is it the point. There are many people on this forum who would have had the same experience as me, as well as several accountants and financial advisers. I have given up on my accountant and thought I may find an answer from someone with first hand experience on here. Yes it is a basic question...and if you don't know the answer please refrain from muddying up the post with your waffle

Edited May 2, 2016 by Kenny202

[Seizetheday]

Well firstly I've been here 18 months. At present I could be considered an Australian resident. I am 52 yo and will be drawing my super as a lump sum when I turn 60 in 8 years time. I intend to live here the next 8 years without any substantial stay in Australia so I will then be considered a non resident. I do not have an Australian or overseas income since leaving Australia. I am retired.

What do you mean what gave me the idea the payment would be tax free? If I was living in Australia the next 8 years and turned 60, I could take my super in a lump sum tax free. Thats the way it is. This has been confirmed by my super fund and others.

Now. Do you really have any clue about what you're talking about or just throwing rhetorical stuff out there to appear that you do? The competency of my tax agent is not your concern nor is it the point. There are many people on this forum who would have had the same experience as me, as well as several accountants and financial advisers. I have given up on my accountant and thought I may find an answer from someone with first hand experience on here. Yes it is a basic question...and if you don't know the answer please refrain from muddying up the post with your waffle

Kenny, read the criteria for being a tax resident, it only applies in the year you take your money.

Politeness wouldn't go amiss, people are just trying to help you.

If you aren't inteligent enough to "play the game" then frankly you can't be helped. I'll have lived in Thailand for nearly 12 years and I have no doubt I won't be paying 35% tax.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Seizetheday

[Koosdedooes]

Well firstly I've been here 18 months. At present I could be considered an Australian resident. I am 52 yo and will be drawing my super as a lump sum when I turn 60 in 8 years time. I intend to live here the next 8 years without any substantial stay in Australia so I will then be considered a non resident. I do not have an Australian or overseas income since leaving Australia. I am retired.

What do you mean what gave me the idea the payment would be tax free? If I was living in Australia the next 8 years and turned 60, I could take my super in a lump sum tax free. Thats the way it is. This has been confirmed by my super fund and others.

Now. Do you really have any clue about what you're talking about or just throwing rhetorical stuff out there to appear that you do? The competency of my tax agent is not your concern nor is it the point. There are many people on this forum who would have had the same experience as me, as well as several accountants and financial advisers. I have given up on my accountant and thought I may find an answer from someone with first hand experience on here. Yes it is a basic question...and if you don't know the answer please refrain from muddying up the post with your waffle

Here is my first hand experience, i know for a fact non of my pension will not be taxable, so i appear to know more about my finanical affairs than you know about your own..

[Kenny202]

Well that's a given. If i understood my financial affairs i wouldnt be asking. I'm not trying to win a smarty pants competition here. You're talking pensions, I'm talking lump sum payout. And yes I know I can roll it into pension plan tax free. Like I said, if you don't know or just don't want to say, why bother replying with sarcastic, negative non helpful or factual remarks? Too many like you on this forum just sitting waiting to smugly snipe at someone. I'm surprised you haven't suggested my wife's a whore while yours is a university educated half Chinese beauty queen of royal origin. Would be the norm. Don't understand you blokes? I've learnt so much on TV and living here would be difficult without it but it's nearly like all the good guys have abandoned ship and left it to the constant miserable sniping. If you understand your financial affairs that's great. You have now shouted it to the world. You haven't however added any value, information or anything of use to this thread apart from negative and derogatory rematks. Oh, you liked your mates post. Of course you did hahaha

Edited May 2, 2016 by Kenny202

[seedy]

Flaming post Removed. If there is a post you do not agree with, respond to the post. Do not Attack the Poster. Or - Ignore the reply.

[simple1]

Based upon current legislation...

"A non-resident (who is not a temporary resident) is subject to the same conditions of release as a resident. If a non-resident cashes out a lump sum from an Australian superannuation fund, the benefit payment is deemed to be sourced in Australia"

http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/expert-analysis/editorial/guide-superannuation-strategies-non-residents

Personally I did not have any tax liability when withdrawing my super as a cash lump sum, I had paid all required tax when depositing funds.

In one of your posts you mentioned your super fund have advised you tax will be applied based upon current legislation, so one assumes their are funds in your super account to which tax applies on lump sum withdrawal or the advise received is incorrect. No-one knows the details of your supper account, accordingly, if you have not already done so, would it not be a good idea to seek written clarification from your super fund concerning the advise received.

[Kenny202]

Based upon current legislation...

"A non-resident (who is not a temporary resident) is subject to the same conditions of release as a resident. If a non-resident cashes out a lump sum from an Australian superannuation fund, the benefit payment is deemed to be sourced in Australia"

http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/expert-analysis/editorial/guide-superannuation-strategies-non-residents

Personally I did not have any tax liability when withdrawing my super as a cash lump sum, I had paid all required tax when depositing funds.

In one of your posts you mentioned your super fund have advised you tax will be applied based upon current legislation, so one assumes their are funds in your super account to which tax applies on lump sum withdrawal or the advise received is incorrect. No-one knows the details of your supper account, accordingly, if you have not already done so, would it not be a good idea to seek written clarification from your super fund concerning the advise received.

Thanks mate. I'll relate my story so far, maybe of help to someone else in the same position.....

I contacted my Super fund (Colonial first state) by email last with a simple but clear and detailed explanation of my situation and my question.

I simply wanted to know if there would be any tax payable on withdrawal of my super at age 60 in 8 years time, providing legislation etc remain the same. 60 yo, according to my DOB is my "preservation date" where I can withdraw these funds without penalty. The person sent back a 2 line reply stating if I was an Australian resident I would be liable for no tax. if I was considered to be a non resident for tax purposes there would be "some" tax payable. Some tax? 35%? 70%? What? Not good enough. If I was going to lose a substantial amount due to residency status I would almost certainly plan to move back to Australia for a period.

I sent another reply back, stating not good enough which seemed to have been passed off onto a supervisor who didn't bother to fully read my initial email, assumed I was trying to draw on my super now...reiterated there would be penalties and taxes as I was withdrawing before maturity and attached various links to websites. ATO etc. You go onto the ATO website and they tell you that you need to contact your super provider to ascertain whether there will be tax payable or not.

So I calls them directly this morning and got a really help full and patient lass. She told me she couldn't give me any information as they can only assess whats payable on the day of maturity. I mean for god sake how are you supposed to plan your financial future if nobody can tell you if you are going to lose a third, or 10% or 50% of your retirement fund? So I pushed her further and she had another look at my account and deemed that if I was an Aus resident for tax purposes and living in Australia the year my super matures, provided I was over 60 I would receive my lump sum tax free. Then she also said I "could" be liable for taxes if I was a non resident. I told her that still wasn't good enough. She goes away and has a lengthy discussion with her superior and comes back and states resident or non resident I will definitely receive all of my super tax free providing I wait until I am 60yo. So thats great news if correct, but Im still not 100% confident. She was to send a confirmation of our discussion in writing but still waiting.

Incidentally I asked the same company to change my contact details a few months ago (Thai address). They sent back around 5 pages of Stat declarations, needing witnesses (Doctors, lawyer etc) and a whole lot of other waffle. The lady tells me on the phone this morning as I had completed their over the phone security check she could change these details whilst we spoke. Why didn't they give me the option of simply calling before?

Dealings in Thailand with banks, companies and government can be extremely frustrating but easy to forget sometimes things just as bad back home.

[rhodie]

Kenny, what they said was correct, but with 8 years to go, if I were you, I would not declare that you are a non resident. It is easy to keep resident status with a little planning. You just don't know what these guys are going to do. Just my 2c worth. Good luck whichever way you go.

[Kenny202]

Kenny, what they said was correct, but with 8 years to go, if I were you, I would not declare that you are a non resident. It is easy to keep resident status with a little planning. You just don't know what these guys are going to do. Just my 2c worth. Good luck whichever way you go.

Thanks mate and I agree with you re anything can happen in 8 years. I am feeling a growing sense that the government appears to be gaining the impression that a persons Superannuation is theirs to do with what they want. Try explaining it all to a Thai Mrs! She lived in Australia with me for a couple of years and couldn't believe my daughters 21 year old dole bludging boyfriend (born in Jamaica) had never had a job and had been receiving government benefits since he left school at 15. "Why you need pay so much tax?" To support people like him. Now we're having the same discussion re why I can't receive a pension as a non resident or why I may lose money withdrawing my own superannuation, which I myself earned and paid. She doesn't understand at all, and neither do I frankly.

By the way. You said "what they said was correct". They initially told me I would pay tax then said I wouldn't. Which answer did you mean was correct?

A few here have suggested its easy to keep resident status. Now I may be thick as a brick but from what Ive been told, unless you have a home in Australia...or a govt super plan...or other things along these lines I would not be considered a resident for tax purposes. I have none of these things. I have bank accounts in Australia, money invested in Australia, an Australian passport and a super fund there. Thats about it and nothing is likely to change. I have heard people on here suggesting they can argue they are still residents as they have a mailing address at their sons house, or because they have an Australian bank account, or they go back for a 2 week holiday every year. I've been on the ATO website and whilst it isn't 100% clear, none of that is going to fly. The only really obtuse question they have on the resident test is "do you intend to return to Australia". I mean thats open to interpretation. Ie I have lived in Thailand for 10 years and haven't returned to Australia however after receiving my superannuation payout at age 60 I do intend to return to Australia and retire...so the answer is yes. Would that fly? I doubt it.

If there is an easy way to retain residency, without buying a home back in Australia or returning for 6 months of every year etc I wish someone would PM me and give me a clue.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Kenny202