Brexit campaign is told to focus on immigration

[arjunadawn]

https://www.rt.com/news/341744-eu-refugees-quotas-fines/

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Brilliant example,thanks.Where else might we find a corollary? In the US currently, the same socialist salons of social engineering are filing lawsuit upon those who disagree with the political ideology of "Climate Change." No shi##t. The actual assertion (Bill of Complaint) is basically that others colluded to oppose the ideology of "Climate change" = using justice (in US) or the regulatory/legislature branch (in EU) to punish their opposing ideology.

Sound familiar? It should; brown shirts, Mao long marchers, despots, fascists, etc., all behaved similarly, initially. Both sides of the Atlantic are now witnessing unprecedented aggression couched in the prerogative of State power. Perhaps its difficult to see directly, so watch the quickened movement from the corner of your mental eye, on both sides of the pond. Its quickening. There is a near full sprint now to enact disagreeable agendas that are threatened by people waking up in protest.

So, when I read the headlines that the EU wants to punish member states with financial penalties that are not just exorbitant but brutal (coercive), it proves exactly what I have been saying here for years- the current problems- the core issue currently defined by the Brexit- is entirely contrived social engineering. This is no longer simply a coup, rather its the de gras in coup de etat of EU member states.

No longer needing to hide in shadows and couch their radical leftist aims in clenched fists or lies, the new Fabians work in the open public space now. Expect:

a. More aggressive use of the State to punish others over the next x months

b. Increased crackdown on those who oppose the Left's cherished pets- climate change, union, multiculturalism, dilution, surveillance, relativity

c. Increased frustration and alienation of overwhelming numbers of people, and their subsequent outcast as problems of modernity

d. Social conflict escalating

[Grouse]

https://www.rt.com/news/341744-eu-refugees-quotas-fines/

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Brilliant example,thanks.Where else might we find a corollary? In the US currently, the same socialist salons of social engineering are filing lawsuit upon those who disagree with the political ideology of "Climate Change." No shi##t. The actual assertion (Bill of Complaint) is basically that others colluded to oppose the ideology of "Climate change" = using justice (in US) or the regulatory/legislature branch (in EU) to punish their opposing ideology.

Sound familiar? It should; brown shirts, Mao long marchers, despots, fascists, etc., all behaved similarly, initially. Both sides of the Atlantic are now witnessing unprecedented aggression couched in the prerogative of State power. Perhaps its difficult to see directly, so watch the quickened movement from the corner of your mental eye, on both sides of the pond. Its quickening. There is a near full sprint now to enact disagreeable agendas that are threatened by people waking up in protest.

So, when I read the headlines that the EU wants to punish member states with financial penalties that are not just exorbitant but brutal (coercive), it proves exactly what I have been saying here for years- the current problems- the core issue currently defined by the Brexit- is entirely contrived social engineering. This is no longer simply a coup, rather its the de gras in coup de etat of EU member states.

No longer needing to hide in shadows and couch their radical leftist aims in clenched fists or lies, the new Fabians work in the open public space now. Expect:

a. More aggressive use of the State to punish others over the next x months

b. Increased crackdown on those who oppose the Left's cherished pets- climate change, union, multiculturalism, dilution, surveillance, relativity

c. Increased frustration and alienation of overwhelming numbers of people, and their subsequent outcast as problems of modernity

d. Social conflict escalating

So you do not accept climate change as a fact

No point discussing anything further with you

Bye

[Linzz]

https://www.rt.com/news/341744-eu-refugees-quotas-fines/

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Brilliant example,thanks.Where else might we find a corollary? In the US currently, the same socialist salons of social engineering are filing lawsuit upon those who disagree with the political ideology of "Climate Change." No shi##t. The actual assertion (Bill of Complaint) is basically that others colluded to oppose the ideology of "Climate change" = using justice (in US) or the regulatory/legislature branch (in EU) to punish their opposing ideology.

Sound familiar? It should; brown shirts, Mao long marchers, despots, fascists, etc., all behaved similarly, initially. Both sides of the Atlantic are now witnessing unprecedented aggression couched in the prerogative of State power. Perhaps its difficult to see directly, so watch the quickened movement from the corner of your mental eye, on both sides of the pond. Its quickening. There is a near full sprint now to enact disagreeable agendas that are threatened by people waking up in protest.

So, when I read the headlines that the EU wants to punish member states with financial penalties that are not just exorbitant but brutal (coercive), it proves exactly what I have been saying here for years- the current problems- the core issue currently defined by the Brexit- is entirely contrived social engineering. This is no longer simply a coup, rather its the de gras in coup de etat of EU member states.

No longer needing to hide in shadows and couch their radical leftist aims in clenched fists or lies, the new Fabians work in the open public space now. Expect:

a. More aggressive use of the State to punish others over the next x months

b. Increased crackdown on those who oppose the Left's cherished pets- climate change, union, multiculturalism, dilution, surveillance, relativity

c. Increased frustration and alienation of overwhelming numbers of people, and their subsequent outcast as problems of modernity

d. Social conflict escalating

So you do not accept climate change as a fact

No point discussing anything further with you

Bye

No need for that sort of silly sarcasm. He didn't give a personal opinion on climate change. He was referencing the filing of lawsuits against opinion opposing an official state political ideology which was an illustration of his overall point about increasing authoritarianism

Edited May 4, 2016 by Linzz

[RickBradford]

It's an expression of what is widely known as "cultural Marxism".

Traditional Marxism sought to overthrow economic oppression and create economic equality, according to the diktats of a self-appointed elite.

Cultural Marxism seeks to overthrow cultural oppression and create cultural equality, according to the diktats of a self-appointed elite.

Their entire worldview is that people are either "oppressors" or "victims". To be an oppressor, you merely have to be successful, since success means you must have exploited somebody. Equally, the mere fact you have failed, means that you are a "victim", who has been exploited by "oppressors".

Obviously, in Europe, finding "solutions" to this intolerable situation means handing power over to the enlightened kommissars in Brussels. National governments are too prone to being in thrall to "oppressors" and doing their bidding.

As a prime example, the perfidious British, who are multiple oppressors (white, Christian, nationalistic, insular, colonialist etc etc) and still powerful, must be tamed and made to see the light of the EU's bountiful countenance.

Their attempts to leave the EU will be opposed with the utmost prejudice.

[nontabury]

[stag4]

[petermik]

Being a Yorkshireman, I tend to be blunt. No intention to insult.....

Yorkshire born...Yorkshire bred....strong in thee arm but thik in thee head

[dick dasterdly]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

[Grouse]

Being a Yorkshireman, I tend to be blunt. No intention to insult.....

Yorkshire born...Yorkshire bred....strong in thee arm but thik in thee head

Aye, but where there's muck there's brass eh!

[stag4]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

[Grouse]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

Economically, the case for remaining is clear

The issues of democracy and sovereignty are debatable

In my opinion, the democratic shortfall can be remedied from within

With respect to sovereignty, we share some but by no means all to achieve significant benefits. For example we share some sovereignty with NATO for mutual defence. We share some sovereignty with EU to bind Europe together and maintain the peace we have had for the last 70 years

Finally, EU has been a moderating influence on some of the more rapacious Tory tendencies. It is a pity we opted out of the social chapter otherwise we would have betting working conditions and better pensions I believe

[dick dasterdly]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

Bearing in mind the Brit governments for decades now - I'm not that bothered about self-government .

Edit - he has a point about democracy though.

Edited May 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

Economically, the case for remaining is clear

The issues of democracy and sovereignty are debatable

In my opinion, the democratic shortfall can be remedied from within

With respect to sovereignty, we share some but by no means all to achieve significant benefits. For example we share some sovereignty with NATO for mutual defence. We share some sovereignty with EU to bind Europe together and maintain the peace we have had for the last 70 years

Finally, EU has been a moderating influence on some of the more rapacious Tory tendencies. It is a pity we opted out of the social chapter otherwise we would have betting working conditions and better pensions I believe

Economically, the 'case for remaining' is far from clear - unless you are happy to take establishment views as gospel.

Edited May 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

Economically, the case for remaining is clear

The issues of democracy and sovereignty are debatable

In my opinion, the democratic shortfall can be remedied from within

With respect to sovereignty, we share some but by no means all to achieve significant benefits. For example we share some sovereignty with NATO for mutual defence. We share some sovereignty with EU to bind Europe together and maintain the peace we have had for the last 70 years

Finally, EU has been a moderating influence on some of the more rapacious Tory tendencies. It is a pity we opted out of the social chapter otherwise we would have betting working conditions and better pensions I believe

I agree entirely with the emboldened part of your post .

[pitrevie]

Just like the blond buffoon in London the blond buffoon in the USA has now come out in favor of BREXIT, that's it I am convinced.

[paulbj2]

I'm getting a bit brassed off with all the utter twaddle that people keep spouting on this topic. I spent the last 11 years before my retirement in September 2015 as a consultant to the EU so I know a bit about how it functions.

Faceless Brussels bureaucrats do NOT just dream up legislation and then foist it on an unsuspecting Britain. That's the story the likes of the Daily Mail, The Express, the Sun and the other "Daily " rags of the British press have been selling the gullible British public for years and it is a barefaced lie! You only have to give your grey matter a chance for a split second to realize that that is a completely farcical idea; do you really see the Germans, the French and all the other nations accepting that? Dishonest British politicians (and frankly that's most of them) also have a lot to answer for, as when they have agreed some legislation in Europe they they think the British public will not like, they blame it on Brussels.

In this context, the European Commission is responsible for PROPOSING and researching legislation and, when it has reached some conclusions as to what is needed, a discussion document is prepared and submitted to all interested parties for discussion and comments. That includes, of course, the relevant government departments in the UK. When everybody has had their say, further documents are prepared and submitted to all interested parties and this iterative process continues until there is a consensus of some sort and a final draft document can be prepared. The final draft has to be approved by the Council of Ministers of the EU which includes the relevant senior ministers from the British government (plus a small army of senior civil servants from Whitehall) as well as by the European Parliament. At all times and at all levels the British and its civil servants are as deeply involved in the process as all the other member nations.

This only becomes like "Faceless bureaucrats imposing their will on an unwilling Britain" if you are the editor of the Daily Mail or a dishonest British Minister who doesn't want to admit that (s)he has agreed some new unpopular legislation.

Edited May 6, 2016 by paulbj2

[Brizo]

Send back all the Europeans...

Do you know if Nigel's German wife will be exempt?

I wonder why he didn't vote English in his love life.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Brizo

[paulbj2]

And I still find it impossible to know how to vote.

On the one hand, I think the Brit govt. is corrupt and not to be trusted.

The Brit govt. has made it clear that it will opt for businesses being able to take advantage of the cheapest workers available (for those on the bottom of the scale) and minimal workers' rights. And this means immigrants flooding the market for low paid jobs.

On the other hand, the EU is just as corrupt - and I don't believe for one minute that Britain is getting more back than it pays in. But at least it does its best to force the Brit govt. to observe employee rights.

Lord Nigel Lawson, former Tory chancellor of the exchequer has this to say on the subject

"It's the big boys the CBI [Confederation of British Industry] and the banks who [support staying in the EU]. Its not the small companies.

"But it's not at heart an economic issue it's about whether you believe in democracy and self-government."

,

Economically, the case for remaining is clear

The issues of democracy and sovereignty are debatable

In my opinion, the democratic shortfall can be remedied from within

With respect to sovereignty, we share some but by no means all to achieve significant benefits. For example we share some sovereignty with NATO for mutual defence. We share some sovereignty with EU to bind Europe together and maintain the peace we have had for the last 70 years

Finally, EU has been a moderating influence on some of the more rapacious Tory tendencies. It is a pity we opted out of the social chapter otherwise we would have betting working conditions and better pensions I believe

There is a democratic deficit in the EU or rather there was. Originally, the European Parliament had no teeth; its deliberations and votes were just taken as "advisory". Today, the EP has teeth and can reject legislation.

[dick dasterdly]

I'm getting a bit brassed off with all the utter twaddle that people keep spouting on this topic. I spent the last 11 years before my retirement in September 2015 as a consultant to the EU so I know a bit about how it functions.

Faceless Brussels bureaucrats do NOT just dream up legislation and then foist it on an unsuspecting Britain. That's the story the likes of the Daily Mail, The Express, the Sun and the other "Daily " rags of the British press have been selling the gullible British public for years and it is a barefaced lie! You only have to give your grey matter a chance for a split second to realize that that is a completely farcical idea; do you really see the Germans, the French and all the other nations accepting that? Dishonest British politicians (and frankly that's most of them) also have a lot to answer for, as when they have agreed some legislation in Europe they they think the British public will not like, they blame it on Brussels.

In this context, the European Commission is responsible for PROPOSING and researching legislation and, when it has reached some conclusions as to what is needed, a discussion document is prepared and submitted to all interested parties for discussion and comments. That includes, of course, the relevant government departments in the UK. When everybody has had their say, further documents are prepared and submitted to all interested parties and this iterative process continues until there is a consensus of some sort and a final draft document can be prepared. The final draft has to be approved by the Council of Ministers of the EU which includes the relevant senior ministers from the British government (plus a small army of senior civil servants from Whitehall) as well as by the European Parliament. At all times and at all levels the British and its civil servants are as deeply involved in the process as all the other member nations.

This only becomes like "Faceless bureaucrats imposing their will on an unwilling Britain" if you are the editor of the Daily Mail or a dishonest British Minister who doesn't want to admit that (s)he has agreed some new unpopular legislation.

I agree - except I've always thought that the Brit govt. was complicit when it suited their (big business) interests and only put their foot down when Brit business interests were threatened (financial sector) or they were concerned about working hours being reduced.

There's no need to mention the press, as most of us know they are only interested in increasing their profits - or their bosses profits. We take their editorials with a pinch of salt.

Even so, the EU is corrupt (like the Brit govt.) and also undemocratic. Its also extremely expensive - to pay for the corruption as well as the OTT salaries.

[Linzz]

Just like the blond buffoon in London the blond buffoon in the USA has now come out in favor of BREXIT, that's it I am convinced.

Well then he just might put the UK at the front of the queue rather than at the rear as the outgoing and nearly irrelevant Obama threatened

[paulbj2]

I'm getting a bit brassed off with all the utter twaddle that people keep spouting on this topic. I spent the last 11 years before my retirement in September 2015 as a consultant to the EU so I know a bit about how it functions.

Faceless Brussels bureaucrats do NOT just dream up legislation and then foist it on an unsuspecting Britain. That's the story the likes of the Daily Mail, The Express, the Sun and the other "Daily " rags of the British press have been selling the gullible British public for years and it is a barefaced lie! You only have to give your grey matter a chance for a split second to realize that that is a completely farcical idea; do you really see the Germans, the French and all the other nations accepting that? Dishonest British politicians (and frankly that's most of them) also have a lot to answer for, as when they have agreed some legislation in Europe they they think the British public will not like, they blame it on Brussels.

In this context, the European Commission is responsible for PROPOSING and researching legislation and, when it has reached some conclusions as to what is needed, a discussion document is prepared and submitted to all interested parties for discussion and comments. That includes, of course, the relevant government departments in the UK. When everybody has had their say, further documents are prepared and submitted to all interested parties and this iterative process continues until there is a consensus of some sort and a final draft document can be prepared. The final draft has to be approved by the Council of Ministers of the EU which includes the relevant senior ministers from the British government (plus a small army of senior civil servants from Whitehall) as well as by the European Parliament. At all times and at all levels the British and its civil servants are as deeply involved in the process as all the other member nations.

This only becomes like "Faceless bureaucrats imposing their will on an unwilling Britain" if you are the editor of the Daily Mail or a dishonest British Minister who doesn't want to admit that (s)he has agreed some new unpopular legislation.

I agree - except I've always thought that the Brit govt. was complicit when it suited their (big business) interests and only put their foot down when Brit business interests were threatened (financial sector) or they were concerned about working hours being reduced.

There's no need to mention the press, as most of us know they are only interested in increasing their profits - or their bosses profits. We take their editorials with a pinch of salt.

Even so, the EU is corrupt (like the Brit govt.) and also undemocratic. Its also extremely expensive - to pay for the corruption as well as the OTT salaries.

I wish! I'm afraid the famous "OTT" EU salaries are a thing of the past as well.

The project manager of the application that I worked on in the EU wanted to ensure that I wasn't tempted away from his team by a juicier offer from elsewhere so he offered me a renewable temporary contract direct with EU. I would probably have taken it, had the offer from Human Resources been sensible but it wasn't. At the time I was earning just short of £70,000/annum which was about par for the course for someone of my age, skills and experience in Luxembourg where salaries are generally rather higher than in the UK. The offer from HR to become a civil servant didn't exactly thrill me, therefore, it was £27,000/annum. Had they offered me double that, I would maybe have considered it as I would have had a lot more holiday each year than the miserable 32 days statutory minimum that I received from the consulting company for whom I worked.

There was a time when EU salaries were a legend, but that time has long gone. The starting salaries offered now are now utterly miserable and they don't go up that fast either. HR couldn't believe that anyone would turn down a job as a civil servant and actually phoned me up to ask me why I didn't take them up on their generous offer!

The EU is changing but it's not "news" in Britain so no one other than insiders like me ever gets to hear about it.

The low end starting salary in the EU today is £22,000/annum and to get in you need speak at least two European languages fluently, or if you are a manager grade or want to be, three languages fluently, and you have to sit a competitive exam from which the top very small percentage will be put on the list for potential job offers when something comes up. It's very difficult to get into the EU civil service and not very well paid when you get there unless you manage to climb the greasy pole.

Edited May 6, 2016 by paulbj2

[pitrevie]

Just like the blond buffoon in London the blond buffoon in the USA has now come out in favor of BREXIT, that's it I am convinced.

Well then he just might put the UK at the front of the queue rather than at the rear as the outgoing and nearly irrelevant Obama threatened

Wow you actually believe that, perhaps you also think he is going to build that wall as well.

[dick dasterdly]

I'm getting a bit brassed off with all the utter twaddle that people keep spouting on this topic. I spent the last 11 years before my retirement in September 2015 as a consultant to the EU so I know a bit about how it functions.

Faceless Brussels bureaucrats do NOT just dream up legislation and then foist it on an unsuspecting Britain. That's the story the likes of the Daily Mail, The Express, the Sun and the other "Daily " rags of the British press have been selling the gullible British public for years and it is a barefaced lie! You only have to give your grey matter a chance for a split second to realize that that is a completely farcical idea; do you really see the Germans, the French and all the other nations accepting that? Dishonest British politicians (and frankly that's most of them) also have a lot to answer for, as when they have agreed some legislation in Europe they they think the British public will not like, they blame it on Brussels.

In this context, the European Commission is responsible for PROPOSING and researching legislation and, when it has reached some conclusions as to what is needed, a discussion document is prepared and submitted to all interested parties for discussion and comments. That includes, of course, the relevant government departments in the UK. When everybody has had their say, further documents are prepared and submitted to all interested parties and this iterative process continues until there is a consensus of some sort and a final draft document can be prepared. The final draft has to be approved by the Council of Ministers of the EU which includes the relevant senior ministers from the British government (plus a small army of senior civil servants from Whitehall) as well as by the European Parliament. At all times and at all levels the British and its civil servants are as deeply involved in the process as all the other member nations.

This only becomes like "Faceless bureaucrats imposing their will on an unwilling Britain" if you are the editor of the Daily Mail or a dishonest British Minister who doesn't want to admit that (s)he has agreed some new unpopular legislation.

I agree - except I've always thought that the Brit govt. was complicit when it suited their (big business) interests and only put their foot down when Brit business interests were threatened (financial sector) or they were concerned about working hours being reduced.

There's no need to mention the press, as most of us know they are only interested in increasing their profits - or their bosses profits. We take their editorials with a pinch of salt.

Even so, the EU is corrupt (like the Brit govt.) and also undemocratic. Its also extremely expensive - to pay for the corruption as well as the OTT salaries.

I wish! I'm afraid the famous "OTT" EU salaries are a thing of the past as well.

The project manager of the application that I worked on in the EU wanted to ensure that I wasn't tempted away from his team by a juicier offer from elsewhere so he offered me a renewable temporary contract direct with EU. I would probably have taken it, had the offer from Human Resources been sensible but it wasn't. At the time I was earning just short of £70,000/annum which was about par for the course for someone of my age, skills and experience in Luxembourg where salaries are generally rather higher than in the UK. The offer from HR to become a civil servant didn't exactly thrill me, therefore, it was £27,000/annum. Had they offered me double that, I would maybe have considered it as I would have had a lot more holiday each year than the miserable 32 days statutory minimum that I received from the consulting company for whom I worked.

There was a time when EU salaries were a legend, but that time has long gone. The starting salaries offered now are now utterly miserable and they don't go up that fast either. HR couldn't believe that anyone would turn down a job as a civil servant and actually phoned me up to ask me why I didn't take them up on their generous offer!

The EU is changing but it's not "news" in Britain so no one other than insiders like me ever gets to hear about it.

The low end starting salary in the EU today is £22,000/annum and to get in, you have to pass a pretty stiff exam and speak at least two European languages fluently (and if you want to get promoted, ever, make that three)

Fair enough, but how much are EU MPs paid?

[nontabury]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

Edited May 6, 2016 by nontabury

[nontabury]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

Paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

[paulbj2]

I'm getting a bit brassed off with all the utter twaddle that people keep spouting on this topic. I spent the last 11 years before my retirement in September 2015 as a consultant to the EU so I know a bit about how it functions.

Faceless Brussels bureaucrats do NOT just dream up legislation and then foist it on an unsuspecting Britain. That's the story the likes of the Daily Mail, The Express, the Sun and the other "Daily " rags of the British press have been selling the gullible British public for years and it is a barefaced lie! You only have to give your grey matter a chance for a split second to realize that that is a completely farcical idea; do you really see the Germans, the French and all the other nations accepting that? Dishonest British politicians (and frankly that's most of them) also have a lot to answer for, as when they have agreed some legislation in Europe they they think the British public will not like, they blame it on Brussels.

In this context, the European Commission is responsible for PROPOSING and researching legislation and, when it has reached some conclusions as to what is needed, a discussion document is prepared and submitted to all interested parties for discussion and comments. That includes, of course, the relevant government departments in the UK. When everybody has had their say, further documents are prepared and submitted to all interested parties and this iterative process continues until there is a consensus of some sort and a final draft document can be prepared. The final draft has to be approved by the Council of Ministers of the EU which includes the relevant senior ministers from the British government (plus a small army of senior civil servants from Whitehall) as well as by the European Parliament. At all times and at all levels the British and its civil servants are as deeply involved in the process as all the other member nations.

This only becomes like "Faceless bureaucrats imposing their will on an unwilling Britain" if you are the editor of the Daily Mail or a dishonest British Minister who doesn't want to admit that (s)he has agreed some new unpopular legislation.

I agree - except I've always thought that the Brit govt. was complicit when it suited their (big business) interests and only put their foot down when Brit business interests were threatened (financial sector) or they were concerned about working hours being reduced.

There's no need to mention the press, as most of us know they are only interested in increasing their profits - or their bosses profits. We take their editorials with a pinch of salt.

Even so, the EU is corrupt (like the Brit govt.) and also undemocratic. Its also extremely expensive - to pay for the corruption as well as the OTT salaries.

I wish! I'm afraid the famous "OTT" EU salaries are a thing of the past as well.

The project manager of the application that I worked on in the EU wanted to ensure that I wasn't tempted away from his team by a juicier offer from elsewhere so he offered me a renewable temporary contract direct with EU. I would probably have taken it, had the offer from Human Resources been sensible but it wasn't. At the time I was earning just short of £70,000/annum which was about par for the course for someone of my age, skills and experience in Luxembourg where salaries are generally rather higher than in the UK. The offer from HR to become a civil servant didn't exactly thrill me, therefore, it was £27,000/annum. Had they offered me double that, I would maybe have considered it as I would have had a lot more holiday each year than the miserable 32 days statutory minimum that I received from the consulting company for whom I worked.

There was a time when EU salaries were a legend, but that time has long gone. The starting salaries offered now are now utterly miserable and they don't go up that fast either. HR couldn't believe that anyone would turn down a job as a civil servant and actually phoned me up to ask me why I didn't take them up on their generous offer!

The EU is changing but it's not "news" in Britain so no one other than insiders like me ever gets to hear about it.

The low end starting salary in the EU today is £22,000/annum and to get in, you have to pass a pretty stiff exam and speak at least two European languages fluently (and if you want to get promoted, ever, make that three)

Fair enough, but how much are EU MPs paid?

I think you'll find that MEPs are paid at the same rate as MPs in their home state. Kind of just, I guess.

Their expenses are pretty generous which they would need to be as most of them will need to maintain a home in Brussels which is a pretty expensive city or stay in hotels and I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to stay in dodgy flophouses. (I don't think payments for moat cleaning or duckhouses are permitted by the EU, however). Nigel Farage takes his salary and does, by all accounts, very little for it. On the subject of his expenses, I can't comment.

[dick dasterdly]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

[dick dasterdly]

Please forgive me, because I can't be bothered to investigate - but somehow I doubt EU politicians are paid differently, according to their home countries' MPs salaries. It seems more likely that there is a 'set' rate for EU MPs.

I do agree that their expenses are 'generous' - to the point of unbearable for those who have no expectation of being able to join the gravy train. And it was named 'gravy train' for a v good reason.

[sandyf]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1462458878.843149.jpg

In 1966 they imposed a £50 travel allowance and then in 1967 devalued the pound to try and resolve the financial problems.

In 1970 the dockers went on strike creating a state of emergency.

In 1971 the postal workers thought they would take a leaf out of the dockers book and Rolls Royce decided to go bankrupt.

In 1972, not one but two states of emergency, miners and the dockers again.

Both unemployment and inflation were at post war highs - we managed just absolutely great.

[paulbj2]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW, now that IS a revelation! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

Edited May 6, 2016 by paulbj2