Why you shouldn't fear violence in Thailand

[bazza40]

In the 7 years I've been here, I have made it a point to keep my opinions to myself (except with my wife), and just play the role of the "humble farang". In that time I've only had two situations come up.

First was when 4 young Thai men "scoped" me out buying a gold necklace, and decided they would rob me for it. It didn't turn out well for them. I kept the necklace, and they got hospital bills.

Second was when my wife went to court over a bill she owed prior to our marriage, and an agreement was reached in court that she would pay 500 baht a month. About a month later, 3 Thai men in their late 20's show up at our house. My wife met them outside and invited them to sit at the table. They told her that because she was now married to a "rich farang", they were going to raise it to 10,000 a month. That's when my wife stood up, came into the house and asked me to come outside, where she told me what they had said. I told her to tell them the amount was set by the court, and if they wanted it changed, they would have to go back to the court. One of them puffed up his chest and said they had the right to change it. (My wife translated for me.) At that point I slipped my feet out of the slippers and removed my watch. My wife said something to them, deadly serious. They all looked at me, stood up and quickly left, never to return. When I asked what she told them, she replied: "I told them they had 30 seconds to get off our property, and if they didn't, in 40 seconds I would be calling for ambulances to come get them." All I could do was laugh.

There have been a couple of situations at family gatherings where arguments ensued (normal behavior), and I was asked what my opinion was. My answer? Hey, it's your country, I'm just a guest, so what I think doesn't matter. Worked perfectly, and they went back to arguing among themselves.

Despite the fact that I am highly trained in martial arts, and military combat martial arts, I studiously try to avoid any situation where I might have to use those skills and training, and I constantly keep eyes in the back of my head for any potential problem. I am constantly aware of my surroundings, and always have an "escape plan" ready.

Not everyone has your purported skills, and let me suggest if the one of the 3 Thai men who came to your house had had a firearm, things might have turned out differently.

[Adventurer1]

What nonsense!

You should definitely fear violence in Thailand. It can come from unpredictable quarters at any time. I consider my wife a passionate and violent woman. From experience I don't leave knives lying around. My father in law who is pretty hi-so has no problem with picking fights. I don't think he can accept his daughter married a foreigner!

Yes, I almost married a pretty lady who suddenly turned violent, very violent. She was a violent person, and I feel the undercurrent of violence these days in Thailand. I don't like it here anymore, and will happily move on.

[Adventurer1]

What nonsense!

You should definitely fear violence in Thailand. It can come from unpredictable quarters at any time. I consider my wife a passionate and violent woman. From experience I don't leave knives lying around. My father in law who is pretty hi-so has no problem with picking fights. I don't think he can accept his daughter married a foreigner!

Yes, I almost married a pretty lady who suddenly turned violent, very violent. She was a violent person, and I feel the undercurrent of violence these days in Thailand. I don't like it here anymore, and will happily move on.

I have always carried at leadt one stun gun and when riding my motorcycle at night, I also carry a long knife. Many Thai people are armed with guns, so it is getting scary.

[Kiwiken]

When people make reference to other places, be it slums in their homeland, the connect looses all relevance. The focus has to be on here and now. The here and now is volatile, especially with rhetoric echoing that foreigners pose a threat to the kingdom. It's apparent that Chinese tourism is the preferred visitor and it's fitting, considering their place in there own society is not to rock boats or not ask questions. Farangs, in order not to be a target of venting, it's best to fade into the shadows. If that's not in our vocabulary, maybe it's time to move on. For sure, the situation in Thailand is not going to change, in fact it may further erode and yes western expats may be the target of frustration. But..lets hope not. It's important to keep in mind, there is definite air of confusion, fear and concern in Thailand, and just maybe we should exercise caution and respect for the countries uncertainties. So...lets be careful out there.

Thailands history is full of swings against Foreigners. For the past 300 years they have picked on Foreigners inside their Country. They have picked on the Chinese, japanese and Europeans. Like all Nations it goes in cycles. My personal thoughts are that there will be a realignment in less than 10 years. Thailand cannot blame Foreigners for their woes. They must look to themselves

[ozyjon]

What violence

doesn't happen here

move along now.

[Johpa]

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

The issue is not that "violence is the only thing they understand". The issue is the intersection of cultural weight placed upon loss of face, the cultural interpretation of power, and the cultural norms that suppress the public display of emotion which leads to what some might consider a lack of adult emotional control through lack of experience in controlling such emotions. After 35 years of interacting with Thai I do fear the violence that can erupt from any feelings of anger or frustration, especially when Thais feel a loss of face. But I am now also very confident in my abilities to both avoid and detect such situations and I do not fear interacting with Thais, I rather enjoy their company.

I keep posting the same advice year after year, but the bible for surviving in Thai society remains Niels Muldar's book "Everyday Life in Thailand". Sure, skip the parts dealing with the academic stuff, mostly in the first chapter. But reading the book will give you some context as to how to navigate the strange world of Thai power relationships. It is a shame that Muldar was never given the respect in the western Thai academic community he deserved, he never could convince many of the Cornell grads that their reverence for people who were considered to have Buddhist merit (บุญ,) was secondary to people who are considered to have power. They also did not like that he went a bit native, the same criticism I once received from a revered Cornell Alumni.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Johpa

[Praematura]

Such bs. My trip in 2014 saw me get my pocket cut open by a ladyboy pickpocket who was working with a policeman. Followed up by being hit head on going down a one way soi by a drunk driver Thai kid going the wrong way. Finally, walking down beach road I got hit in the head with a brick, presumably related to the ladyboy I insisted get arrested for puck pocketing ( it was near soi 9 police box.)

Your <deleted> nuts to visit there. I am done.

[bluesofa]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

That very same thought occurred to me.

[saakura]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

By any chance, are you much older than your in-laws??

[Bender]

Sadly i expect more and more of these rubbish articles on TVF in the future, as the crime rate rise.

ps: i dont know why, but i get the feeling that these articles are written by our resident apologists

Edited May 2, 2016 by Bender

[SoiBiker]

Sadly i expect more and more of these rubbish articles on TVF in the future, as the crime rate rise.

ps: i dont know why, but i get the feeling that these articles are written by our residents apologists

Maybe there's another forum out there that's more to your liking?

[Bender]

Sadly i expect more and more of these rubbish articles on TVF in the future, as the crime rate rise.

ps: i dont know why, but i get the feeling that these articles are written by our residents apologists

Maybe there's another forum out there that's more to your liking?

tell us, it was you, who wrote this stupid article? because i thought it was chiang mai.

naah in a second thought, its neither you or chiang mai, the article was not enough daft!

Edited May 2, 2016 by Bender

[AZBill]

Just cancelled our trip for later in the year. My wife won't travel back there. A lot of her social media friends are saying the same thing. Something is happening back there and it's not good,

[AlphaSoiDog]

A long comment about "face". This will appear to be off topic, but it is at least related to it. Really it is...:

In Thailand, if some driver is veering into your path it is completely acceptable to toot your horn to alert them of your presence. I don't know how well this works in big cities, but where I drive the reaction is always positive and apparently no offence taken.

In Oz, if you toot your horn, or more commonly flick your lights, they are very likely to get vicious. Flicking your lights at them just because they threatened your life is cause for fully justified rage and sometimes multiple attempts at your life (much worse if you are on two wheels). Somewhere under that uncontrolled anger they know they did something wrong, but instead of being able to accept that and learn they go on the attack.

I recently worked for five years in an office in Oz and similar things happened there. A job related question (I needed to fix her computer) gets turned into a complaint to the CEO using the gender card. Then in contravention of Oz law I get slammed by said CEO without even getting a say. Realising only later that the woman now trying to get me sacked was just feeling guilty because she wasn't doing her work and my question in some way reminded her of that. And this was hardly an isolated incident.

Many foreigners carry on about the Asians saving "face" and that it is BAD!!! But aren't the two examples above pretty much the same thing? The way the human brain "works" is a bit broken. It will see what it wants to (literally) and even change memories to put ourselves in the best light and we unconsciously practice self deluding justifications for our emotion driven actions on an hourly basis. And we are VERY good at it...

(eg: A person makes an unconscious emotional decision to buy the expensive car, then unconsciously creates a list of "very good reasons" why they should spend too much money. And most people aren't even aware they did it. Or I accidentally remind the lazy woman about her work and she creates "reasons" good enough to convince other women to hate me. And they create more justifications for that hate.)

I think, "Asian face" and "piss poor western behaviour" are just symptoms of humans worldwide who are (deliberately) not taught to be more analytical and aware of the human brains inbuilt failings.

[BritManToo]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

[FritsSikkink]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

[thesetat2013]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

By any chance, are you much older than your in-laws??

Not even close...

[Plutojames88]

I wonder from what mount the author is preaching from?

The wisdom seems at best designed for appeasement .

The counter balance to maybe articles that have appeared on rape and murder and mutilation of westerners ?

Certainly death occurs there, sometimes it's inflicted.

By self , by misadventure . And yes by Thais.

So not fearing attack is ok , it's unlikely.

But thinking its therefore not a consideration is wrong.

Lets look at just the perception of us given by leaders.

I have watched the General manipulate his speeches (compulsory broadcasting each Friday evening by TV networks)

In one recent speech he hinted at outside ""failure to understand Thais "" and this special circumstance of much needed intervention & governance and its ways , were not for non Thais to further discuss.

He had said to other media sources he was sick of "" international misunderstandings of what's being done " ( in a reference to AA and objections to it and other practices of citizens being detained.

As Thailand lurches into a more isolationist position under junta rule by marginalising both domestic protests and international .

Subtle pleas to Thais psychology in their printed media to understand such things as a charter document (effectively restricting their choices) and ignore international non Thai requests to oversee referendum . Stoke such fires.

So violence is going to be increased when perceptions of ""us "" telling "" them"" how to think.

I have heard stories that Thais are more frequently defending even the juntas position regards its "" up to Thais""

This resonates .

Sanctions I think would result in wide spread violence and possible murders committed against westerners.

It's more than speculative when we see leaders deliberately blame us for things that are their doing?

Thailand has always had the potential to become a more violent Nation.

The politic divide most tourists are disinterested in and unaware of like we.

Hints at that potential.

Then the elites vs the masses .

The frustrations now of oppression and freedoms of speech.

Effectively saying "" life is normal "" but we decide.

Ironically the junta says "" it's a Thai matter to decide"" whilst denying them that precise right ( unless you buy the delusion they represent you)

Violence in large doses is often first manifested as is now.

Small increments then articles that go viral.

Then another and another....finally with a trigger.

( Sanctions) the internal pressures explode.

The potential for political unrest will make Thailand far more dangerous.

Even being white and vocal could be enough for both sides to take a swipe.

I would caution people to not be complacent and believe it can't happen.

I have learnt that in Thailand "" things are not always as they appear""

I don't think many weeks will pass before more cases are being highlighted and the same discussion is circulated in forums.

I think it's audacious to claim their is nothing to fear based on a personal confidence , rather than a clinical scientific evidence based appraisal .

The evidence is clear and documented .

Ignore that at your own peril.

Whilst fear is a strong word .

Certainly it's preferred to misplaced arrogance that you can safely walk the streets late at night.

You can but the chances a motor bike with two Thais and an iron bar stopping are not fantasy.

It's a possibility.

Real.

You are only as safe as precautions and foresight permit.

Bad luck and bad mouthing can be a problem there.

People here know the dangerous are real.

And a tourist deciding on going there should at very least take heed.

And follow travel advice and even consider a more passive venue.

The reality is Thailand is under a military rule where the population knows "" might equals right""

So increasingly that practice will apply.

A simple objection there now can lead to lethal circumstances.

Seasoned punters are one thing.

I recently got my daughter to go to Bali instead.

Why?

Not experienced a pretty female 25 .

We all know only ugly woman should wear bikinis there

Says their leader ( in wake of rape and murder case)

That was enough for me and many other fathers.

Thailand is dangerous .

That's a fact.

Roads .

Assaults .

Accidents.

Injuries.

Safety standards.

End of story.

Go there but know the risks

Research it

Edited May 3, 2016 by Plutojames88

[BritManToo]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

Not everybody is ignorant enough to think Thai is a race.

Edited May 3, 2016 by BritManToo

[willfreeman]

Why do people think they get respect if they live here for years and years and still need their wife to have a conversation with somebody.

Why would anyone want to have a conversation with a Thai?

Not exactly the most interesting people in the world.

not everybody is a ingnorant racist

nothing ignorant or racist about it, the average thai is hardly well versed in world affairs/current events most of them dont even know who hitler is

[marko kok prong]

Agree with the losing face bit,my ex father in law tried to kill me by battering me with a tree branch,all i had done was ask him to put his garbage in the bin i had provided outside his room instead of throwing it in the garden beds,and on the paved courtyard,he went mental,luckily i managed to overpower and disarm him,before the neighbours intervened,i did not strike him however,to do so would have invited aprobable assualt by other villagers,that would have ended very badly for me.This effectivley ended my marriage as my wife who was away took his side.

[spidermike007]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

While I can see that this sort of thing can happen I wonder how he exactly heard "talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father" We have heard your version and it sounds very civilized and innocuous. But he might have heard something different and your version does not perhaps tell the whole story. Perhaps your wife had translated on this subject several times in previous conversations and her possible exasperation on the subject came through this time. Perhaps she added some offending phrase out of her own feelings and it might have been acceptable if he thought it came from her but perhaps he thought it was your exact words and felt outraged. She might not have liked to admit that to you. My apologies to her if I have misinterpreted or wrongly accused her of possibly unintentional escalation involvement. There are also the considerations raised by another poster about whose responsibilities were involved, financial, property ownership etc.

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

Edited May 3, 2016 by spidermike007

[SoiBiker]

It seems likely that in many of these cases, resentment and anger had been building up under the surface for some time, and the seemingly innocuous event that sparked the aggression was merely the final straw that broke the camel's back.

[marko kok prong]

In the 7 years I've been here, I have made it a point to keep my opinions to myself (except with my wife), and just play the role of the "humble farang". In that time I've only had two situations come up.

First was when 4 young Thai men "scoped" me out buying a gold necklace, and decided they would rob me for it. It didn't turn out well for them. I kept the necklace, and they got hospital bills.

Second was when my wife went to court over a bill she owed prior to our marriage, and an agreement was reached in court that she would pay 500 baht a month. About a month later, 3 Thai men in their late 20's show up at our house. My wife met them outside and invited them to sit at the table. They told her that because she was now married to a "rich farang", they were going to raise it to 10,000 a month. That's when my wife stood up, came into the house and asked me to come outside, where she told me what they had said. I told her to tell them the amount was set by the court, and if they wanted it changed, they would have to go back to the court. One of them puffed up his chest and said they had the right to change it. (My wife translated for me.) At that point I slipped my feet out of the slippers and removed my watch. My wife said something to them, deadly serious. They all looked at me, stood up and quickly left, never to return. When I asked what she told them, she replied: "I told them they had 30 seconds to get off our property, and if they didn't, in 40 seconds I would be calling for ambulances to come get them." All I could do was laugh.

There have been a couple of situations at family gatherings where arguments ensued (normal behavior), and I was asked what my opinion was. My answer? Hey, it's your country, I'm just a guest, so what I think doesn't matter. Worked perfectly, and they went back to arguing among themselves.

Despite the fact that I am highly trained in martial arts, and military combat martial arts, I studiously try to avoid any situation where I might have to use those skills and training, and I constantly keep eyes in the back of my head for any potential problem. I am constantly aware of my surroundings, and always have an "escape plan" ready.

Not everyone has your purported skills, and let me suggest if the one of the 3 Thai men who came to your house had had a firearm, things might have turned out differently.

No doubt one of our ex Sas,ex navy seal,delta force, cia members.

[AlexRich]

Why you shouldn't fear violence in Thailand

But you should

If you don't it can very well happen to you for the smallest of reasons.

Better to be aware of your environment rather than blindly stumble through...

I don't fear violence in Thailand any more than any other country but I do agree with the above post. I don't drink so that is less of a problem but if i did and was out after midnight I'd get a taxi home. I'd also try to avoid places where a lot of alcohol is being consumed, as this is normally the main source of violence around the world.

My experience of Thailand so far has been very good, but the Hua Hin Songkran issue highlighted the fact that sometimes you can't avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[ThaiWest]

I was walking around in a big crowd just the other day,i bumped into some body and it was pretty hard.

The Thai man looked back at me with anger in his face,i said sorry to him in Thai and smiled.

He said mai pen rai and we each went our way.

If i would have said "what the <deleted> are you looking at "when he turned around things probably would have turned out differently.

When you live here you will have to accept that Thailand is going to change you,not the other way around.

Going with the customs of the country has nothing to do with being a pussy.Some people who say they would react with more violence do not realize they are exactly the same as the people they are accusing of being violent.

When you start comparing news paper headlines from other places in the world you will see that there is unnessecary violence every where on this planet.

Just ... common sense ... Under normal circumstances right? And, no doubt, this happened to be "normal circumstances." However, these times, they are changing. And a person needs to be more aware of all that is going on around them! Quite often these days, there are circumstances that one might not easily be aware of, if not paying attention, that could easily provoke a reaction that is completely different then the "normal" and in return, be the unmaking of the innocent person passing by!

[ThaiWest]

It is always good to remember that you are not in your "home" country and all that might apply there, is in fact out the window here! You are in fact a "guest" of this country no matter how much you believe you give to it in income or other. Always remember, the cold hard facts!

[bamukloy]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

While I can see that this sort of thing can happen I wonder how he exactly heard "talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father" We have heard your version and it sounds very civilized and innocuous. But he might have heard something different and your version does not perhaps tell the whole story. Perhaps your wife had translated on this subject several times in previous conversations and her possible exasperation on the subject came through this time. Perhaps she added some offending phrase out of her own feelings and it might have been acceptable if he thought it came from her but perhaps he thought it was your exact words and felt outraged. She might not have liked to admit that to you. My apologies to her if I have misinterpreted or wrongly accused her of possibly unintentional escalation involvement. There are also the considerations raised by another poster about whose responsibilities were involved, financial, property ownership etc.

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

You have pretty much nailed the issues with common sense and good that you remain positive.

But to be honest, from my experience, the saying:

" The apple doesnt fall far fromm the tree"

Sadly a lot of guys have come to see the Jeckly/Hyde syndrome in their 'butter wouldnt melt in the mouth' TRak, iin the worst of ways.

It becomes clear that a Thai female slighted can be just as ugly as a Thai male.

Knowing this is the key to knowing the advantage of doing ones best to never allow confrontations ( involving loss of face) to occur in the first place.

Never criticising family is on that list. Even if she winges about them, you cannot. Just try to point out positives.

Going against the father in the slightest way, no matter how stupid or trivial the matter is not on.

I dont know how many westerners would try and take an arrogant superior stance to their FIL in their own country.

Thinking or expecting your Thai wife to side with you against their family is unrealistic and would only happen in rare instances where other obvious factors are present. Trying to test her on it is stupidity.

Thinking yours is different and could never be violent when/if provoked is naive.

If she has never shown that side, great, keep it that way at all costs.

If and when she does go off, careful there are no knives around

[spidermike007]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

Gee, I'll bet you and your father-in-law have never gotten along--have you ever shown the father of your wife any respect?

What a stupid question.. Of course I have and have known him for years before I ever married his daughter..

I could never trust him after an incident like this one. I would steer clear of him, offer him no favors, and consider him a persona non grata. He really stepped over the line, and demonstrated a dangerous lack of self control. If he was willing to offer a very sincere apology, and admit how wrong he was (difficult for most Thai men to do) then I might give him another chance. And if my Thai wife was not comfortable with this, I would work hard to make her understand the severity of the situation, and the degree to which her dad was wrong. If she still did not get it, I would probably divorce her in a nanosecond.

[thesetat2013]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

While I can see that this sort of thing can happen I wonder how he exactly heard "talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father" We have heard your version and it sounds very civilized and innocuous. But he might have heard something different and your version does not perhaps tell the whole story. Perhaps your wife had translated on this subject several times in previous conversations and her possible exasperation on the subject came through this time. Perhaps she added some offending phrase out of her own feelings and it might have been acceptable if he thought it came from her but perhaps he thought it was your exact words and felt outraged. She might not have liked to admit that to you. My apologies to her if I have misinterpreted or wrongly accused her of possibly unintentional escalation involvement. There are also the considerations raised by another poster about whose responsibilities were involved, financial, property ownership etc.

Give me a break. While her father would certainly appreciate your excuses for his behavior, who on earth comes after their son in law with a knife? This creep is a hooligan, a fool, a freak, a homicidal maniac, and a worm. I hope his wife now knows the full extent of how inferior a man her father is. She should be demanding a sincere apology from her father. If I were in her husband's shoes I would write this guy off immediately, and forever, unless he came clean and admitted what a transgression he had committed, with humility and sincerity. Only once would I allow someone to behave like that, regardless of the circumstances, miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. That is not the way to resolve things, among civil families. This guy is a cockroach of a man. Write him off.

And if the wife is not fully in agreement with this, divorce her immediately, and find another family of kind, decent, dependable people, with honor and respect. Life is too short to surround ones self with fools of this sort. And regardless of the whole Thai solidarity thing, if your wife is not fully in your camp, when it comes to disputes with her family, she does not know anything about loyalty to her man. So dump her, if she is not on the same page.

You have pretty much nailed the issues with common sense and good that you remain positive.

But to be honest, from my experience, the saying:

" The apple doesnt fall far fromm the tree"

Sadly a lot of guys have come to see the Jeckly/Hyde syndrome in their 'butter wouldnt melt in the mouth' TRak, iin the worst of ways.

It becomes clear that a Thai female slighted can be just as ugly as a Thai male.

Knowing this is the key to knowing the advantage of doing ones best to never allow confrontations ( involving loss of face) to occur in the first place.

Never criticising family is on that list. Even if she winges about them, you cannot. Just try to point out positives.

Going against the father in the slightest way, no matter how stupid or trivial the matter is not on.

I dont know how many westerners would try and take an arrogant superior stance to their FIL in their own country.

Thinking or expecting your Thai wife to side with you against their family is unrealistic and would only happen in rare instances where other obvious factors are present. Trying to test her on it is stupidity.

Thinking yours is different and could never be violent when/if provoked is naive.

If she has never shown that side, great, keep it that way at all costs.

If and when she does go off, careful there are no knives around

The fact is that I stood my ground on dong the plumbing my way and not the Thai way.. Insisting on sanding and glueing all the pipes as well as other things Thais seem to bypass if it takes longer to is more difficult. House is in wife's name. Father just expected me to bend and do things the way he was shown 30 years ago here...I have experience with this so I knew how it should be done. But again, the house didn't even have running water when I started. Throughout the whole ordeal I remained calm and relaxed. As it is her father I seriously doubt she insulted him or didn't show proper respect. Just something clicked inside of him and he went off the handle. Just an FYI, but the father did this also when a different thai son in law wanted to do something different than the way the father wanted to do it.

Anyway, the point was simply that this mentality seems to be dominant in the Thai society. If you don't get things your way, you result to violence as your option and it also seems that this is happening very quickly. A simple argument or misunderstanding can make a Thai snap and take bloody actions quickly.. Perhaps it is from a lack of responsibility for ones own actions that is trained into each Thai from birth!